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[shaowebb]

It's actually Inset Polygon, without the r. It appears to be from an addon in Blender's settings. I don't remember enabling it myself, but my memory might be failing me. I've enabled lots of addons in the past just to try them, and then forgotten that I did so. XD

Yeah, all I'm doing is pressing T in edit mode. Make sure the unwrap settings aren't collapsed. There's a little grey arrow that can hide them. I've collapsed them without realizing before and it confused me why I couldn't find the settings anymore.

The Conformal/Angle button and other UV settings appear BELOW the main toolshelf, btw - not inside the toolshelf itself. You shouldn't have to click one of those tabs (Tools, Create, Shading/UVs, etc) on the left side of the window to see them. The Conformal button appears below all of that, irrespective of whatever tab you have selected.

I think reinstalling should fix this for you, though it also might not, because of the weird way that Blender saves your UI modifications into each .blend file. If you accidentally removed that section of the UI somehow, it may have permanently been removed in that specific .blend file. Check if it's gone from the default startup file too (File-> Load Factory Settings)? If it is then it's a global Blender problem and a reinstall might help.

Oh and I'm actually using 2.77a, not 2.77. A minor difference, but a bunch of bugs were apparently fixed in 2.77a that were in present 2.77.

Nah, even loading factory settings doesn't change it. I'm looking in the add ons area and I see things like inset polygon but nothing under UVs. Do you think I should fish for plugins at this point or just reinstall Blender since it doesn't seem to have this basic thing?

 

[Jumplion]

Gonna have to buckle down, haven't been able to work on my Capstone/assets on account of some contracting work I'm doing. Going to try and stick to a schedule, keep focused and working.

For now, have some old animations I made. Still deciding if I want to go with Spriter or Spine, Spriter tends to give me bugs, at least with the free version, and I like doing a lot of iterative changes to the sprites so it gets annoying to have to keyframe the new sprites that I want to add into the animations (probably would be fixed if I wasn't so cheap and bought the full version of Spriter)

(had to scale them down a huge amount since I'm using hugeass sprites for some reason)

Really super simple stuff. I'll make sure I have some more substantial stuff next time around. Going to really buckle down make sure my time management is good over this summer.

 

[Theanine3D]

Nah, even loading factory settings doesn't change it. I'm looking in the add ons area and I see things like inset polygon but nothing under UVs. Do you think I should fish for plugins at this point or just reinstall Blender since it doesn't seem to have this basic thing?

I would just reinstall Blender. Even if you hunt down a bunch of addons, if you update Blender later on, those addons might get wiped (mine usually do) and you'll be back to square one.

You could also just revert back to a previous version of Blender. Or, keep 2.77 installed but install an older version alongside it for whenever you need the Conformal unwrap (an added hassle - hopefully it won't be necessary)

 

[Cute Dragon Here]

I had a sort of nightmare yesterday. Like my game was getting hammered on by the folks in this thread.

*shudders*

Doesn't help that I've been sitting on the code for a while, too.

 

[HellBlazer]

does anyone still have that link for that 16gb file full of free sounds? I lost the link

http://www.sonniss.com/gameaudiogdc2016/

EDIT: Oh, damn, I missed the new page. -_-

 

[missile]

Yep, that's a very good idea. Something like a soft Gaussian blur effect that gradually lessens intensity to guide the user with progressive clarity. You could maybe combine aspects of a vignette and diorama effect in there as well and it could lead to some interesting things, depending on if it fits your visual style ...

That blurring you speak of won't be possible in here, because this will require
much more shades, i.e. true color mode, usually. If blurring, you would need
do to it out of an 8-bit color palette, an entirely different beast. Sure, one
could make the blur in 24-bit and quantize down, but the fine shades would
require massive dithering from 32-float to 24-bit to 8-bit to get rid of the
(more or less fullscreen) bands. The many shades would keep the dither patterns
quite active on the screen to counter the bands which requires them to change
state often while trying to reproduce the missing shades, which leads to many
pixel transitions and as such to an uneasy image.

The up-res feature would work in another fashion. See below.

... (it would depend on just how low-res the models are). ...

Not only the models, but also the screen will be pretty low-res, like it's 1982
or something xD, like 320x180 or 160x90. With such low resolution the models
needs to be low-res as well. One would need at least some many flat surfaces
where the normal remains constant to not produce too many shades upon (diffuse)
shading the object. Imagine a perfect round and well lit sphere. You will get a
different shade for each pixel on the screen. Upon color quantization you are
left with some bands which needs to be covered (to a given degree, a few bands
are ok) via dithering. However, to cover the bands you need some bigger dither
patterns. The bigger patterns aren't the problem. The problem come in when the
object (or the light source for that matter) starts to move. In this case the
dither patterns covering the sphere would work hard to counter the bands,
producing many pixel transition, which isn't a problem if the object's extend
is small on the screen. However, if it coveres many screen pixels, then a huge
amount of (low color-bit) pixels will change state quite often. Given that the
screen is low-res, you will be left with some sort of pixel/confetti rain all
over the place. xD

So it's better to keep the surface of an object flat and the object itself
angular shaped more or less. The dullness that usually results from such models
when simply shaded will be countered by an improved lighting/shading model,
enhanced depths cues, etc. All these enhancements will populate the surface
color/shades of the object again. However, some of these shading effects are
only local in nature while having a strong effect, like specular lighting.

About the up-res feature. Instead of rendering at a higher resolution with
blurring/de-rez huge parts of the screen afterwards, one could also render at
low-res (standard) resolution while increasing the resolution for some given
objects or parts of the screen. Guess for example the game has sort of an up-res
lens. Looking through that lens will show you the world at higher resolution
with more shades, more detail etc. Whatever. Just an idea.

... Particularly interested to see where your progress with it as at now given it's clearer what type of stuff can be done without polygons (Media Molecule's Dreams, for instance). ...

I haven't looked into MM's technique (there is a huge paper about it somewhere),
because I don't want to get influence/distracted by it. I want to develop my
own techniques and learn from those. But I think I know how they've done it. My
low-res rasterize should also allow for some constructive solid geometry (CSG)
further down the road. However, one problem with CSG is to compute all the
geometric properties of such objects if needed. For example, it would be cool to
recompute the volume / mass distribution of such objects/models per frame and use
it with the inertia tensor to compute a proper angular momentum to make the
object spin according to its mass distribution. Looking at some of the MM
videos, I think they did something like this. There are some method to do so,
some of which I have studies a couple of years ago. Many of these methods are
"just" computational bound, but not in memory. Given that the PS4 is pretty
fast, I think such techniques come into reach. If you put some pretty good
programmers and people who know about optimizing behind such things, I'm pretty
sure it can be realized today. And I bet MM has done so. Their engine is way
cool, but doesn't help me the slightest. xD

... I'm doing more art these days and try posting more frequently now, but I should set up an Instagram or Pixiv at some point too, preferably when I have more illustrations up. Mostly digital but veering into a more loose/impressionistic style 'cuz I want to get better with colors, contrast, and finishing these quickly (fits my patience levels better xD), but trying to learn 3D modelling and animation (2D and 3D) as well. ...

Pretty good stuff up there! I wish I could draw like this. Are there some games
out there based on an impressionistic style?

... Most interested in learning visual techniques from 5th gen type of games regarding 3D since that'd be very manageable with my (outdated) setup. ...

I think manageable is a keypoint. This is also one point of my low-res endeavor.
Stripping things down to a bare minimum and going from there sound pretty
enticing to me. Question is, how much can be stripped away before it becomes
trivial? xD Btw; if you are interested in low-poly design, I'm always looking
for someone able to make some nice looking low-poly (air-, hoover-,
anti-gravity-) crafts further down the road. Something like this, yet even more
simpler but likewise as cool;

(Artist: www.89a.co.uk)

 

[Minamu]

Of course you need to go through Greenlight. Also having a price is not obligatory to be on Steam, there's plenty of free games.

Just remember to mention that the game will be free on your Greenlgiht campaign, that should give you a lot of yes votes.

If you just want to put something up to get eyes on it, try gamejolt.com or itch.io if I were you

Consider putting up your game on itch.io. You can link to that from your Greenlight page so people can download it and test it out. Itch.io charges nothing to host your game and there's no approval process like Greenlight. It's a lot more open as a publishing platform than Steam in that regard.

People started noticing my game on itch.io even though all I have on there is a very, very early alpha demo. One person even donated after downloading the demo, even though the demo was free. There's a nice little dedicated community there that appreciates indie efforts probably more than anywhere else.

Thanks for all your answers, you've given me lots to think about

Edit: Gonna have to look at that sound library above too

 

[Goron2000]

this deserves another congrads

http://steamed.kotaku.com/game-that...75766402#_ga=1.267101707.482323353.1459371058




was going to post progress gif but GIFcam keeps not wanting to do good ... if you can tell and look around the glitchyness I've gotten my first enemy fully animated ^_^

Your art is fantastic. I hope you don't mind me saying this but the enemies don't look very aggressive, slightly stiff. Maybe crouching them down a little more, raising the arms and adding a bop to their walk would help to make them look more of a threat. They look really big in stature so I guess I see them being boxer/balrog types, very topheavy. But I realise this is very subjective and no matter what you decide it wont detract from your game im sure, keep it up.

 

[Stuart444]

RPG Maker MV (the newest version) is 30% off on Humble Bundle, bringing it to an all-time low of $55.99. With the Humble Monthly discount it's down to about $50. There's only about 12 hours left on it as of this post, so if you want to work with a simpler (but still fairly robust) engine, this is a good opportunity.

https://www.humblebundle.com/store/rpg-maker-mv

Thanks for this, been wanting it for a while .

Linked to it in RPG Maker Community thread

 

[Blizzard]

It's a small thing, but I finally modified SFML itself to fix an annoyance. All RenderWindow objects were created visible by default. If you immediately hid them, you still got a brief flash on the screen.

I added a new sf::Style constant that allows the window to be created invisible, not shown by default in the initialization code, and finally shown once my game's setup finishes.

No more flashes or hollow window frames while things load!

 

[RelentlessRolento]

This?

http://www.sonniss.com/blog/gdc-is-here-and-we-have-some-special-for-you-all

http://www.sonniss.com/gameaudiogdc2016/

EDIT: Oh, damn, I missed the new page. -_-

Thank you both

Your art is fantastic. I hope you don't mind me saying this but the enemies don't look very aggressive, slightly stiff. Maybe crouching them down a little more, raising the arms and adding a bop to their walk would help to make them look more of a threat. They look really big in stature so I guess I see them being boxer/balrog types, very topheavy. But I realise this is very subjective and no matter what you decide it wont detract from your game im sure, keep it up.

Thank you for the compliment

I would like to go back and redo animations as I agree somewhat that some of the movement is a bit stiff. I won't be able to till later though after I've finished my Kickstarter regardless of its successful or not. It's one of those things that I know I should fix but it's going to probably have to wait.

 

[Pehesse]

Just because it's been AGES since I've had anything to share...

(Yes, Missile, there will be context for it soon!)

 

[Pazu]

what do y'all think is essential information to convey on a game dev website? any examples of well designed ones?

same questions regarding a website for the game itself... curious to look at the possibilities!

 

[Mafusto]

Is there any good place or article that contains a detailed description of how to get a solid old school platformer feel and control?

I am struggling with getting the game feel write so I'm looking for some good examples to get some inspiration. This is the last part the game that needs to be right, before I can release a playable alpha to get player feedback. It really feels nice to see every part come together to form a game

 

[TheKroge]

If you need a hand planning out your page I'd love to offer some tips, I do this as my day job!

If by page you mean UI, then I'm all ears! This is a PC game though, not a web page just to be clear

Here's a look at our new battle UI. It's based on ship formation, by type. You can also alter your formation by individual ship, but this just makes it much more simple on a more general scale. The idea is that your ship formation is really what determines success in battle. Ships in front will take hits first, and you can pull back and regroup when the formation starts to break down. So you want to have a balance between having strong ships in front to take hits, but also not letting your ships with the strongest guns get destroyed!

 

[RelentlessRolento]

Just because it's been AGES since I've had anything to share...

(Yes, Missile, there will be context for it soon!)

awesome animation work! really like how smooth it is.


EDIT:

Spent all day today on him, but got my bull finally in the game all aniamtions done. Everything still needs cleanup, but good for now. (enemies didn't really perform while on camera... -_-)

 

[missile]

Just because it's been AGES since I've had anything to share...

(Yes, Missile, there will be context for it soon!)

I thought the guy was making Toast Hawaii, until I saw all these kicks. xD

 

[correojon]

Is there any good place or article that contains a detailed description of how to get a solid old school platformer feel and control?

I am struggling with getting the game feel write so I'm looking for some good examples to get some inspiration. This is the last part the game that needs to be right, before I can release a playable alpha to get player feedback. It really feels nice to see every part come together to form a game

I´ve been researching on this A LOT and have found that even the "simplest" platformer has a ton of tricks working behind the spotlight to achieve that good game feel. First of all forget about a general formula, the Super Meat Boy devs when asked about the awesome game feel of their game said that it was just "one big hack". Even so, there are some things you can do. I´ve made 2 posts on game feel in my subReddit about the game with extensive information:

This one is a general one, can be applied to any platformer. I called it "Nintendo tricks for 2d platformers" as many of them were first present in SMB, but they are really sort of a standard of the genre:
https://www.reddit.com/r/KitsuneWor...endo_tricks_for_2d_platformers_the_game_feel/

This one is more specific about my game, but the concepts behind can be made general too:
https://www.reddit.com/r/KitsuneWorldDevblog/comments/41il3k/movement_system/

Feel free to post there any questions/doubts/opinions, I´m no expert in the area so hopefully we can help each other

You need to know before hand the type of game you want to make: highly responsive like Super Meat Boy? More meaningful jumping like SMB3? Something in between like SMW? That will define how your character responds to changes in directions, button presses, releases and so. For my game I went with SMW approach, but tweaked some things to be able to make it faster in certain situations.

Another very important thing to get the right game feel is the camera. Don´t underestimate the importance of the camera, all your efforts on getting the right movement for the player can be for nothing if your camera doesn´t behave correctly. As a general tip, try to move the camera as little as possible and never change it´s height when the player is in the air, except if he´s falling towards the border of the screen.

Spent all day today on him, but got my bull finally in the game all aniamtions done. Everything still needs cleanup, but good for now. (enemies didn't really perform while on camera... -_-)

He looks great! Very intimidating, great design.

Just because it's been AGES since I've had anything to share...

(Yes, Missile, there will be context for it soon!)

Your animation are too smooth, outstanding job!

 

[Pehesse]

awesome animation work! really like how smooth it is.

Your animation are too smooth, outstanding job!

"Too" smooth?? That's the first time I heard that one :-D
Thanks much!

I thought the guy was making Toast Hawaii, until I saw all these kicks. xD

Ooooh, you! (and now I'm hungry, congrats!)

This one is a general one, can be applied to any platformer. I called it "Nintendo tricks for 2d platformers" as many of them were first present in SMB, but they are really sort of a standard of the genre:
https://www.reddit.com/r/KitsuneWor...endo_tricks_for_2d_platformers_the_game_feel/

Thanks for compiling all that, interesting thoughts there! Though reading it I had to respond to the "make the collision box smaller" part: it's also NOT a good idea to make it *too* small, as Infogrames games, among others, taught us... there's nothing worse than visibly landing on a platform, but since the (invisible) collision box is much smaller, actually go through and fall to our deaths. It all depends on the idle stance, of course: SMW with the legs close together is very easy to read, for instance, whereas stances with legs further apart are more difficult to handle - original mario has it so that the feet and the body are on the same edges, so it works just as well, but a more "naturalistic" character with legs spread apart and a smaller body, much like Tintin's sprites, will have to handle their collision boxes with more nuance, since too big will make their body feel larger, and too thin will cause the landing on platform issue mentioned earlier.

So really, I think, ideal collision width should consider the width of the visible footing of the character first and foremost!

 

[correojon]

"Too" smooth?? That's the first time I heard that one :-D
Thanks much!

I meant it as a compliment, wish I could animate like that

Thanks for compiling all that, interesting thoughts there! Though reading it I had to respond to the "make the collision box smaller" part: it's also NOT a good idea to make it *too* small, as Infogrames games, among others, taught us... there's nothing worse than visibly landing on a platform, but since the (invisible) collision box is much smaller, actually go through and fall to our deaths. It all depends on the idle stance, of course: SMW with the legs close together is very easy to read, for instance, whereas stances with legs further apart are more difficult to handle - original mario has it so that the feet and the body are on the same edges, so it works just as well, but a more "naturalistic" character with legs spread apart and a smaller body, much like Tintin's sprites, will have to handle their collision boxes with more nuance, since too big will make their body feel larger, and too thin will cause the landing on platform issue mentioned earlier.

So really, I think, ideal collision width should consider the width of the visible footing of the character first and foremost!

Glad you found it useful

I should have worded it in a different way because when I say "make the collision box smaller" I don´t mean making it smaller in all sides. In fact what I´ve found out works best is to reduce the width to match the body or feet, reduce the height by some pixels, but leave the bottom of the collision rectangle aligned with the bottom of the feet, so the player doesn´t push into a platform when landing. Regarding width, I´ve found out that the Mario sprites are done so the width of the feet when Mario is walking and has his legs spread apart matches that of the body minus a few pixels on each side, so a single rectangular mask can be used for all the sprites. This way when you collide against a wall you get the impression it´s Mario´s body which is colliding against it, while at the same time you can get a good feeling when landing on platforms or walking off them.

Taking this into account when designing your animations helps a lot, I think that as long as you place the contact point of the feet with the ground inside the mask you can have wide leg movement. They´ll clip through walls when wide opened, but if you consistently keep the body as the "collision detector" in all actions, it actually feels and looks good. Mario has been doing this for ages and I wasn´t actually aware that the was really clipping into walls until I looked at it in detail. It feels good because it seems that it´s always the body what is used for collisions, so the player will instinctively focus on controlling the center of mass of the sprite, which comes off as something very natural.

As for falling through platforms you can check iteratively, so instead of checking if at at certain moment the player is colliding with a platform, I check all intermediate positions, this way speed or mask size aren´t a problem and I can move to the contact position without clipping. If you set your system with care by taking into account the speed of everything that can move and the sizes of the collision masks, as you suggest, you can disregard this intermediate check and get a more efficient and simple system. In my game I intend to have many moving elements of all sizes, so that´s why I chose the iterative way, this way I can address that problem before it happens and have no size/speed limitations.

I´m amazed at how much thought is behind these "simple" games, even the simplest actions have a lot of hidden systems going on behind them that make them feel good.

 

[LordRaptor]

There's this super famous blog entry about platformer game hitboxes that is absolutely worth reading, and if its not been mentioned by people when asked about platformer collision, its probably because they assume you've already read it

 

[jahasaja]

Hi indieGaf I need your wisdom and experience,

I released a game on STEAM and sent out a lot of review codes. However, very few big sites actually reviewed it.

Now I plan to release the game on PS4 but do not know how to get the big sites to take notice..

I might hire some agency if that is the best way to go.. is that something that anyone have experience with? Is it worth the money and do you have any company you would recommend?

 

[octopiggy]

This?

http://www.sonniss.com/blog/gdc-is-here-and-we-have-some-special-for-you-all

This looks useful. Thanks.

 

[MrHoot]

By the way I don't know what are the rules for plugging other indie projects ? There's a cool one from colleagues of mine who's on kickstarter right now (already passed it's goal) but I'm guessing advertising stuff might be forbidden here ? Mostly because I like their concept and it's pretty unique, and some people here might like it

 

[shaowebb]

I went ahead and uninstalled then reinstalled blender 2.77a and ...

...still dont have the option listed to change from angle to conformal UV unwrapping. Is there an option for this in the settings or something I need to turn on? At this point I'm still just tugging poly by poly to fix UV's.

 

[desu]

This might be interesting for people that use/are interested in Allegorithmic Substance programs.

Naughty Dog made heavy use of their tools in their texturing pipeline for Uncharted 4 and they are pretty proud of that. So they are releasing some of the GDC presentations done by Naught Dog artists, explaining their Substance pipeline.

https://www.allegorithmic.com/blog/texturing-uncharted-4-gdc-video-sessions-part-1

 

[LordRaptor]

still dont have the option listed to change from angle to conformal UV unwrapping.

When you select some faces and hit U does "toggle Editmode" not change to "Unwrap" and expose those options?

 

[shaowebb]

When you select some faces and hit U does "toggle Editmode" not change to "Unwrap" and expose those options?

Nope. This is all I get.

EDIT: Lemme restart. I hadn't done that since the reinstall

 

[LordRaptor]

Nope. This is all I get.

yeah I amde a quick animated gif showing how it works for me - you have to select Unwrap before the options appear for me (Im using 2.75)

 

[shaowebb]

Sweet! Works now. Conformal still didnt help for some reason but now Smart UV project is giving me a much better unwrap than before and I can stitch it together into a nice looking piece without all this tuggity tuggity work.

Thanks for this.

Still why was all the unwrapping for such a simple object (part of an arm that was essentially a cylinder) just turning into a tangle mess like that? Theres no hidden geometry there. Can origins screw with this or anything?

 

[LordRaptor]

Still why was all the unwrapping for such a simple object (part of an arm that was essentially a cylinder) just turning into a tangle mess like that? Theres no hidden geometry there. Can origins screw with this or anything?

I dunno, I'm pretty far out of my comfort zone when it comes to 3D modelling and texturing; is it possible you had a rogue vertex selected along with the faces you wanted to unwrap?
I think you run into problems unwrapping using perspective rather than orthogonal view too...
My workflow is to turn on... whatever the option is that stops you selecting anything 'behind'... deselect everything, and use Ortho with B(rush) Face selection to ensure I'm only unwrapping the specific thing I'm trying to unwrap

 

[shaowebb]

I dunno, I'm pretty far out of my comfort zone when it comes to 3D modelling and texturing; is it possible you had a rogue vertex selected along with the faces you wanted to unwrap?
I think you run into problems unwrapping using perspective rather than orthogonal view too...
My workflow is to turn on... whatever the option is that stops you selecting anything 'behind'... deselect everything, and use Ortho with B(rush) Face selection to ensure I'm only unwrapping the specific thing I'm trying to unwrap

No chance of random vertexes. I seperated the model and I'm unwrapping each area seperately on the model (head, torso, arms, etc). All these areas where a seam go I seperate the model at the seam, unwrap them, then later rejoin the model and pack the UVs I've done onto a single map in this manner. That area you saw was from the shoulder to a forearm where the character has a seam because they have a forearm guard that gets seperate textures from the arm. I just hid the other objects to make it easier to work.

That areas done now by the way. I just need to mirror and copy that UV over to the other arm lest I do it twice.

Once I get back from work (if I'm not exhausted) I should be able to finish up most if not all the rest if it goes as easily as this did. I hope its smooth because I am EAGER to do some cel shading and texture work. With the way I'm laying out seams I can essentially layout the maps like a front view on a character portrait. This means when I go into photoshop with the UV's me and the wife can do our normal work flow of painting on comic book style color flats, then seperate out the shaded areas and black hatching layers for Diffuse, Specular and other maps so these comic book effects only appear in certain lighting. This coupled with outliner options in Unity/Blender as well as Zbrush Materials should let me create some reaaaaaaaaaally nice comic book style models in a cel style.

Just gotta get past this silly fiddly UV work is all so I can get back to the fun stuff.

 

[RelentlessRolento]

I don't mind 3d modeling but my biggest problem has always been UV mapping... I hate that stuff and I'm sloppy at it... then again the last time I UV mapped was years ago. My hot goes off to you UV mappers out there.

Spent and still spending most of today cleaning up my code and making my game a little more responsive.

 

[shaowebb]

I don't mind 3d modeling but my biggest problem has always been UV mapping... I hate that stuff and I'm sloppy at it... then again the last time I UV mapped was years ago. My hot goes off to you UV mappers out there.

Spent and still spending most of today cleaning up my code and making my game a little more responsive.

I feel you. UV mapping is by far one of the most tedious chores of developing assets. Muscle weighting is up there too IMO. Thing is if I spend the extra time making these really nice UV's instead of just goin with whatever puts a non stretched checker test on it the quickest I can really have fun with photoshop and recreate my comic book stuff in 3d. Once I figured out that my layers could all be saved out as my other maps to handle shadows, highlights, reflection and depth in a manner in 3d that will make my 2d effects happen when light is shined on the model from various angles It became very important for me to get perfect UV work. I have old UV's that had textures on them, but they aren't laid out in such a manner that I can assume my natural painting techniques in photoshop with them. Shits hard with out decent anatomy and just scribbling geometry on the model and then using those lines to layout my shading doesn't offer very clean or accurate shading...I always end up with noticeable edges by seams.

This will be worth it. I keep telling myself that to power through it. I'll be repeating this again when I have to adjust muscle weights.

 

[Popstar]

Speaking of UVs... anyone here ever tried out Crocotile 3d?

Sort of reverses the modelling process. You create your texture first, and then create your mesh using it.

Create 3d models and environments with tiles. Typically tiles are used from 2d tilemaps to construct flat scenes, but Crocotile 3d adds another dimension. Watch the example video to see how fast and easy the process is.

• Draw and Edit modes to easily add/remove/edit tiles in 3d space.
• Perspective & Orthographic projection.
• Export to .obj and use your creations in other programs or in your game development.
• Modify UVs on tiles, adjust tileset sizes.
• Paint tools for creating/modifying your tilesets.
• Rotate, flip, mirror, reverse faces, verts and UVs.
• Split/cut tiles.
• Copy/paste tiles.
• Group tiles into objects/prefabs.
• Undo/redo any changes.
• More!

 

[timetokill]

Speaking of UVs... anyone here ever tried out Crocotile 3d?

Sort of reverses the modelling process. You create your texture first, and then create your mesh using it.

I've been super interested in it but it just feels too slow to actually use. I love the look it gives though.

 

[correojon]

I´m making a list of universally acclaimed 2D platformers to play them and try to learn something from each of them. I´ve written next to some their strongest points, so I can focus specially in those aspects when playing them. The current list is:

1. 1001 Spikes
2. Ape Scape
3. Braid: Focus on puzzles
4. Cave Story: Pay special attention to the camera
5. Donkey Kong Country 2
6. Donkey Kong Country Returns: Tropical Freeze: Good bossfights
7. Duck Tales Remastered
8. Freedom Planet
9. Mega Man 2
10. Mega Man 3
11. Mega Man 9
12. Mega Man 10
13. Mega Man Zero 1: Focus on boss fights
14. Mega Man Zero 2: Focus on boss fights
15. Mega Man Zero 3: Focus on boss fights
16. Mega Man Zero 4: Focus on boss fights
17. Ori and the Blind Forest: Tight controls, original game mechanics, exploration
18. Rayman Legends
19. Shantae
20. Shovel Knight: Level design, development of mechanics, alternate paths looping back
21. Sonic 1 Master System: Why not?
22. Sonic 1 Genesys: Original platforms & exploration
23. Sonic & Knuckles
24. Super Mario World: THE GAME
25. Super Mario Bros 3: Experimental
26. Super Meat Boy: Focus on skill, challenge design & difficulty, tight controls
27. Wario Land 3: Great exploration mechanics

I´ve already beaten many of these games in the past but I´m replaying them with a more analytic mindset. If you know any worthy 2D platformer I have left out please let me know. Also, if you have any information about what makes that game (or any in the list) stand out I´d really appreciate the help

*Underlined games are those for which I´ve already completed the new playthrough, bolded ones are games with an ongoing playthrough.

 

[Lautaro]

Ha, speaking of UVs, I have so little patience for them that for this 3d model:

I used something like this as the diffuse texture:

 

[Goron2000]

You should play 2d platformers that are considered bad too, so you can learn what makes them bad and avoid making those same mistakes.

 

[Blizzard]

I´m making a list of universally acclaimed 2D platformers to play them and try to learn something from each of them. I´ve written next to some their strongest points, so I can focus specially in those aspects when playing them. The current list is:

I don't know about universally acclaimed, but Guacamelee is well worth playing in my opinion. Its strengths include cohesive graphical style, soundtrack, and responsive controls. It's kind of unique with its fighting game combo play combined with a metroidvania.

 

[timetokill]

I´ve already beaten many of these games in the past but I´m replaying them with a more analytic mindset. If you know any worthy 2D platformer I have left out please let me know. Also, if you have any information about what makes that game (or any in the list) stand out I´d really appreciate the help

You should really play New Super Mario Bros. U and New Super Luigi U. Probably the best level design in the series, and NSLU shows how a simple change to how the character controls and putting a time limit can make the mechanics of the game feel very different and emphasize different things. And it controls pretty much perfectly. I've played every 2D Mario platformer and that combo is definitely up there, if not the best in the series.

 

[Pehesse]

I´m making a list of universally acclaimed 2D platformers to play them and try to learn something from each of them.

You should play 2d platformers that are considered bad too, so you can learn what makes them bad and avoid making those same mistakes.

Definitely agree with Goron2000 - you should play the Tintin, Spirou and Indiana Jones on Gameboy/SNES to see and understand how and why collision can go horribly wrong :-D (and that's in addition to poor level design and other fun stuff).

On the brighter side, those may not be "universally acclaimed" (but tbh, I'd be wary of many that are) but I'd still highly recommend:
-Donkey Kong '94 on Gameboy for its triple jump mechanic+backflip, level designs... most of it
-The Smurf's Nightmare, again on Gameboy, again for the triple jump mechanic
-Castlevania 1 to study the levels and enemy patterns designed around the subweapons and player jump arcs
-Castlevania 3 for the branching paths and level design
-Castlevania 4 for camera control, player movement and vast design differences from 1-3
-some of the Castlevanias post SOTN to check out their platforming level design (or lack thereof, but their clock towars usually have interesting stuff) - I'd say Order of Ecclesia has some of the most interesting LD, and Symphony of the Night/Portrait of Ruin some of the least
-maybe an unpopular choice, but instead of the NES megamans (or in addition to), check out the gameboy versions as well, especially 3 and 5, for their level design and camera, since screen space is a LOT more limited than on NES (Xtreme is an interesting piece as well, though a lot less tight)
-Megaman X for its everything (it does teaching the mechanics through its introduction stages/menu better than Super Metroid - honest!)
-Metroid Zero Mission for the overall movement palette, and level design alternative paths for speedrunning
-instead of WarioLand 3 which I find reather bloated, I recommend 2 instead - 3 is a padded version of what made 2 great (the transformation powers+alternate paths)
-WarioLand 4, however, is definitely its own tightly designed thing and absolutely worth checking out in its entirety
-some of the absurdly ultra difficult platformers like I wanna be the Guy, etc, to check out how they handle difficulty and player anticipation/bait and switch (watch normal/blind playthrough and speedrun playthroughs, interesting stuff to see there regarding player movement, how to lead the player, etc)
-you mention the megaman zeros for boss fights mainly, but I highly recommend studying their level design as well, in particular 2's (and 3 for its setup and lead-in to the finale, and 4 for the soundtrack :v)
-the original Rayman (Legends is fantastic, but it's also very very different from how the original controlled)
-Steamworld Dig, for the "create your own level design" aspect and overall movement feel, one of the better ones in recent memory
-the Angry Video Game Nerd games, they actually have pretty interesting level designs (skewed towards almost unfair challenge in 1, and slightly easy in 2)
-might want to check out some Contra's as well if you intend to have some action mix in your own platformer - either Contra 3, or 4, or both, and if you're hungry for more, then 1, to study how respawning enemies are an integral part of the level design and the movement palette is still built around that
-about Shantae: I'd play the original for history's sake, but its LD is hampered by its camera (way too close, leading to a LOT of blind/faith jumps). I'd recommend Risky's Revenge for a polished up version of the original with similar LD considerations, and a very interesting take on enemy patterns where they usually throw you off rhythm compared to what you're usually used to (most enemies will either anticipate or wait a second more than you'd think they would, making most battles require a slightly different rhythm than you'd find in most other similar games). Or if you want, skip directly to Pirate's Curse for its more varied traversal palette. The LD is slightly more linear (even though the game itself is slightly more open ended, go figure). I'd say if you have the time to spare, all three are worth a look but only the later two are worth completing in their entirety for study purposes.
-if you still want more: Super Mario Bros 2, for its unconventional jump arcs (play anyone but Mario and relearn everything you think you know about platformers) and linear-yet-exploration-driven LD
-Mutant Mudds/Xeodrifter are pretty "by the numbers", but it's interesting to see what that means exactly in their respective subgenres :-D

Not really a glowing recommendation but I'd recommend checking out Mercenary Kings as well, mainly for their delayed jump, to study how terrible it feels (at least, I think it pretty much kills the game)

(giving you a leg up on my own platformer designs here since I'm heavily taking reference from some of the above :v)

...that's it for now, but I'll try to add to that list as I think of more :v

 

[correojon]

Edi to address Pehesset:

Definitely agree with Goron2000 - you should play the Tintin, Spirou and Indiana Jones on Gameboy/SNES to see and understand how and why collision can go horribly wrong :-D (and that's in addition to poor level design and other fun stuff).

On the brighter side, those may not be "universally acclaimed" (but tbh, I'd be wary of many that are) but I'd still highly recommend:
-Donkey Kong '94 on Gameboy for its triple jump mechanic+backflip, level designs... most of it
-The Smurf's Nightmare, again on Gameboy, again for the triple jump mechanic
-Castlevania 1 to study the levels and enemy patterns designed around the subweapons and player jump arcs
-Castlevania 3 for the branching paths and level design
-Castlevania 4 for camera control, player movement and vast design differences from 1-3
-some of the Castlevanias post SOTN to check out their platforming level design (or lack thereof, but their clock towars usually have interesting stuff) - I'd say Order of Ecclesia has some of the most interesting LD, and Symphony of the Night/Portrait of Ruin some of the least
-Metroid Zero Mission for the overall movement palette, and level design alternative paths for speedrunning
-instead of WarioLand 3 which I find reather bloated, I recommend 2 instead - 3 is a padded version of what made 2 great (the transformation powers+alternate paths)
-WarioLand 4, however, is definitely its own tightly designed thing and absolutely worth checking out in its entirety
-some of the absurdly ultra difficult platformers like I wanna be the Guy, etc, to check out how they handle difficulty and player anticipation/bait and switch (watch normal/blind playthrough and speedrun playthroughs, interesting stuff to see there regarding player movement, how to lead the player, etc)
-you mention the megaman zeros for boss fights mainly, but I highly recommend studying their level design as well, in particular 2's (and 3 for its setup and lead-in to the finale, and 4 for the soundtrack :v)
-the original Rayman (Legends is fantastic, but it's also very very different from how the original controlled)
-Steamworld Dig, for the "create your own level design" aspect and overall movement feel, one of the better ones in recent memory
-the Angry Video Game Nerd games, they actually have pretty interesting level designs (skewed towards almost unfair challenge in 1, and slightly easy in 2)
-might want to check out some Contra's as well if you intend to have some action mix in your own platformer - either Contra 3, or 4, or both, and if you're hungry for more, then 1, to study how respawning enemies are an integral part of the level design and the movement palette is still built around that

Not really a glowing recommendation but I'd recommend checking out Mercenary Kings as well, mainly for their delayed jump, to study how terrible it feels (at least, I think it pretty much kills the game)

(giving you a leg up on my own platformer designs here since I'm heavily taking reference from some of the above :v)

...that's it for now, but I'll try to add to that list as I think of more :v

Wow, awesome recommendations, thanks a lot!

I focused on the boss fights in the Mega Man Zero series because one of the main objectives I have for the game is to make a Mario platformer with great boss fights. When I think about boss fights the Mega Man series immediately comes to mind and the Zero series might give me lots of ideas because you can use a melee style with the sword and many Zero weapon´s. It´ll be easier to translate to a platformer where the "only" means of attack is to jump on the enemy (not counting external items like shells or such and abilites granted by powerUps). But you´re right, I should keep an eye out for the level design too. BTW, I´m a fan of the musical score of all Mega Man games, specially of the X and Zero games, you have good taste

Thanks again, really helpful suggestions and I appreciate you taking the time to write all that.

You should play 2d platformers that are considered bad too, so you can learn what makes them bad and avoid making those same mistakes.

Great idea, I´ll definitely do that too! Any suggestions? I can think of Bubsy but nothing more really comes to mind right now.

I don't know about universally acclaimed, but Guacamelee is well worth playing in my opinion. Its strengths include cohesive graphical style, soundtrack, and responsive controls. It's kind of unique with its fighting game combo play combined with a metroidvania.

Guacamelee is an awesome game, as a lover of action games and Metroidvanias it had everything to become one of my favorite games ever. However, I think it pulled in too many directions and ended up not developing any to the fullest. Combos were a bit too simple and combat in general was too, outside of some amazing boss fights. Exploration was a bit "obvious" with the color blocks blocking your advance, it was like having big arrow signs. Don´t get me wrong, even if I say all these things I loved the game. The artstyle is really unique and I fell in love with it, as with all the hidden references and easter eggs. You nailed it callnig the artstyle "cohesive", it permeated everything in the world and I loved how the setting, lore and every aspect also meshed with the music.

I think I have it too fresh in my mind, I´ll put it in the list and leave for the end so I can get a fresher look at it some months from now. Thanks!

You should really play New Super Mario Bros. U and New Super Luigi U. Probably the best level design in the series, and NSLU shows how a simple change to how the character controls and putting a time limit can make the mechanics of the game feel very different and emphasize different things. And it controls pretty much perfectly. I've played every 2D Mario platformer and that combo is definitely up there, if not the best in the series.

I´m already playing NSMBU, I don´t know why I didn´t include it in the list. I had no idea Luigi U changed things that much, I´ll add it too. Thanks!

 

[peaceiscloser]

Speaking of UVs... anyone here ever tried out Crocotile 3d?

Sort of reverses the modelling process. You create your texture first, and then create your mesh using it.

I've been looking at it for a while now. I don't know how to do 3D modeling at all, and it looked like a decent way to turn my pixelart into something. I haven't actually tried it out though, the $10 license has dissuaded me multiple times like the cheapskate I am

 

[Popstar]

I've been super interested in it but it just feels too slow to actually use. I love the look it gives though.

I'd be interested in using it for doing quick mock-ups myself, so if it's slow to use that would be a huge minus.

I've been looking at it for a while now. I don't know how to do 3D modeling at all, and it looked like a decent way to turn my pixelart into something. I haven't actually tried it out though, the $10 license has dissuaded me multiple times like the cheapskate I am

Looks like it's name your own price on itch.io. https://prominent.itch.io/crocotile3d.

EDIT: hmm, it's a little unclear if buying it on itch.io actually gives you a registration code.

EDIT 2: you don't get a key if you pay on itch.io. But if you pay $10 on itch.io, that author will send you a key manually.

 

[Pehesse]

Edi to address Pehesset:

I focused on the boss fights in the Mega Man Zero series because one of the main objectives I have for the game is to make a Mario platformer with great boss fights. When I think about boss fights the Mega Man series immediately comes to mind and the Zero series might give me lots of ideas because you can use a melee style with the sword and many Zero weapon´s. It´ll be easier to translate to a platformer where the "only" means of attack is to jump on the enemy (not counting external items like shells or such and abilites granted by powerUps). But you´re right, I should keep an eye out for the level design too. BTW, I´m a fan of the musical score of all Mega Man games, specially of the X and Zero games, you have good taste

Fair enough! I understand better what you're going for now. All my recommendations may not be applicable then, but if you have time to spare, I hope they might still be interesting to check out! (I've edited some stuff in and will add as I think of more)

Regarding Zero's boss fights: it's true you have both the classic buster and melee fighting styles, but I also highly recommend trying out each game's distinctive fighting styles (pogo rod/shield in 1, power stealer in 4, etc) to figure out how that can affect the entire way you approach these fights. (disclaimer: I really, really dislike the pogo rod :v)

An extension to that would be Gunvolt, but I found it rather disappointing and lacking on all aspects that made Zero great, which is why I didn't recommend it - but depending on your own interest in these games, you might find something to learn there as well, especially since you're interested in boss fights?

 

[correojon]

Fair enough! I understand better what you're going for now. All my recommendations may not be applicable then, but if you have time to spare, I hope they might still be interesting to check out! (I've edited some stuff in and will add as I think of more)

Regarding Zero's boss fights: it's true you have both the classic buster and melee fighting styles, but I also highly recommend trying out each game's distinctive fighting styles (pogo rod/shield in 1, power stealer in 4, etc) to figure out how that can affect the entire way you approach these fights. (disclaimer: I really, really dislike the pogo rod :v)

An extension to that would be Gunvolt, but I found it rather disappointing and lacking on all aspects that made Zero great, which is why I didn't recommend it - but depending on your own interest in these games, you might find something to learn there as well, especially since you're interested in boss fights?

Everything adds, if I disregard level design to focus on boss fights the game won´t be any good, so any suggestion is welcome The special focus on boss fights is because no platformer has really done it well, or at least, at a level such as the Mega Man games, but I consider Mega Man games a mix leaning a bit more towards action than platforming. That means it surely must be something really difficult to achieve, so any help or information I can get will surely help towards that goal.

There are many problems to solve, like having no healthbar for the player so he dies in 1-2 hits, which makes having complicated patterns for the bosses a really tricky thing to do, as the player may die a lot just to learn them and give up. Or how do I make it so the player can´t continuosly jump on the boss without just making him invulnerable except for brief moments, which is an approach many people loathe? How do I solve these problems without making the bossfights too difficult or complicated in the process? I don´t want to end with bosses that block the player´s advance, specially for less skilled players. I have many question and no answers yet

Regarding MMZ, I tried to play using all weapons back in the day and in fact I enjoyed the extendable rod a lot, but for boss fights nothing could beat the charged beam sword. Taking on the bosses with each weapon can be an amazing learning experience, awesome suggestion! BTW, I remember seeing a lot of similarities between the Mega Man Zero series and Devil May Cry, thinking that if Mega Man had continued evolving in that path (classic->X->Zero) we could have eventually ended with a 2D Devil May Cry one day. Am I crazy?

Updated list with the awesome suggestions from you guys, thanks a lot to everyone:

Learn from these:

1. 1001 Spikes
2. Ape Scape
3. Angry Video Game Nerd games: They actually have pretty interesting level designs (skewed towards almost unfair challenge in 1, and slightly easy in 2)
4. Braid: Focus on puzzles
5. Castlevania 1: Levels and enemy patterns designed around the subweapons and player jump arcs
6. Castlevania 3: Branching paths and level design
7. Castlevania 4: Camera control, player movement and vast design differences from 1-3
8. Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia: Nice level design, melee combat
9. Cave Story: Pay special attention to the camera
10. Contra 3/4: Study how respawning enemies are an integral part of the level design and the movement palette is still built around that
11. Donkey Kong '94 (Gameboy): Triple jump mechanic+backflip, level designs... most of it
12. Donkey Kong Country 2
13. Donkey Kong Country Returns: Tropical Freeze: Good boss fights
14. Duck Tales Remastered
15. Freedom Planet: Modern Sonic done right
16. Guacamelee: Cohesive graphical style, soundtrack and responsive controls. Great mix of action, platforming and exploration.
17. Gunvolt: MMZ style bossfights
18. I wanna be the Guy: Absurdly ultra difficult, etc, to check out how they handle difficulty and player anticipation/bait and switch (watch normal/blind playthrough and speedrun playthroughs, interesting stuff to see there regarding player movement, how to lead the player, etc)
19. Mega Man 2
20. Mega Man 3
21. Megaman 3 (Gameboy): Level design and camera. Screen space is a LOT more limited than on NES
22. Megaman 5 (Gameboy): Level design and camera. Screen space is a LOT more limited than on NES
23. Mega Man 9
24. Mega Man 10
25. Megaman X for its everything (it does teaching the mechanics through its introduction stages/menu better than Super Metroid - honest!)
26. Megaman Xtreme
27. Mega Man Zero 1: Focus on boss fights
28. Mega Man Zero 2: Focus on boss fights, excellent level design
29. Mega Man Zero 3: Focus on boss fights, excellent level design
30. Mega Man Zero 4: Focus on boss fights
31. Metroid Zero Mission: Overall movement palette, and level design alternative paths for speedrunning
32. New Super Mario Bros U: Best level design in Mario games?
33. New Super Luigi U: Small tweak of mechanics to spice things up. Play immediately after Super Mario Bros U.
34. Ori and the Blind Forest: Tight controls, original game mechanics, exploration
35. Rayman Legends
36. Shantae Risky's Revengeolished up version of the original with similar LD considerations, and a very interesting take on enemy patterns where they usually throw you off rhythm compared to what you're usually used to (most enemies will either anticipate or wait a second more than you'd think they would, making most battles require a slightly different rhythm than you'd find in most other similar games).
37. Shantae the Pirate´s Curse: More varied traversal palette. more linear LD, but more open ended.
38. Shovel Knight: Level design, development of mechanics, alternate paths looping back
39. Sonic 1 Master System (why not? )
40. Sonic 1 Genesys: Original platforms & exploration
41. Sonic & Knuckles
42. Super Mario World : THE GAME
43. Super Mario Bros 2: Unconventional jump arcs (play anyone but Mario and relearn everything you think you know about platformers) and linear-yet-exploration-driven LD
44. Super Mario Bros 3: Experimental
45. Super Meat Boy: Focus on skill, challenge design & difficulty, tight controls
46. Steamworld Dig: "Create your own level design" aspect and overall movement feel, one of the better ones in recent memory
47. The Smurf's Nightmare (Gameboy): Triple jump mechanic
48. Wario Land 3 (great exploration mechanics)
49. Wario Land 4: Tighter Wario Land 3

What NOT to do

1. Mutant Mudds/Xeodrifter are pretty "by the numbers", but it's interesting to see what that means exactly in their respective subgenres :-D
2. Mercenary Kings: Mainly for their delayed jump, to study how terrible it feels (at least, I think it pretty much kills the game)
3. Tintin, Spirou and Indiana Jones on Gameboy/SNES to see and understand how and why collision can go horribly wrong :-D (and that's in addition to poor level design and other fun stuff).
4. Shantae (original): It´s LD is hampered by its camera (way too close, leading to a LOT of blind/faith jumps).

 

[Pehesse]

. That means it surely must be something really difficult to achieve, so any help or information I can get will surely help towards that goal.

It's not a game I've personally completed so I'm only going by word of mouth here, but isn't Yoshi's Island/Story supposed to have pretty good boss fights? Though I suppose it has the whole egg shooting mechanic that adds another layer, not simply jumping... That's a tricky problem to solve only through jumping, indeed (though it's going to be one I need to tackle eventually so might as well start brainstorming now).

The main path I wanted to explore for boss fights in a 2D platformer using only traversal mechanics (not simply jumping on them, though, so there's a difference right there) was adding a puzzle-like element to figure out how to use the environment against them (ie=collapsing platforms/walls on them, trapping them, forcing them towards harmful zones...). Not saying much more, in part because I don't have much more (yet ) and also because I want to keep some surprises of my own for said 2D platformer I'm now DYING to make, but maybe there's something to figure out there that could help you as well?

BTW, I remember seeing a lot of similarities between the Mega Man Zero series and Devil May Cry, thinking that if Mega Man had continued evolving in that path (classic->X->Zero) we could have eventually ended with a 2D Devil May Cry one day. Am I crazy?

Hah, maybe! I keep hoping we'd have a ZX3, myself, but something more combo/action oriented probably would've worked, too! On that note, isn't Dust's fighting system pretty close to that? Or... uh, the Dishwasher, maybe? But we're veering much closer to pure 2D action than platforming, here, perhaps...

Also, I would add Mutant Mudds and Xeodrifter to the "learn from these", rather than the other category! They may be by the numbers, but it's especially interesting to see what exactly these numbers are, and why it works there (and not, say, in the myriad other by the numbers platformers who didn't have good movement feel). I actually rather enjoy those two games!

 

[LordRaptor]

Adventures of Shuggy (has a free demo) is a pretty interesting platformer from the 'cautionary tale' side of things, because it honestly doesn't get anything wrong, is absolutely bursting with mechanics, and jam packed full of levels applying those mechanics in interesting ways.

You've probably never heard of it, let alone played it.

e:
Crap, top of page... uhh.... here's some robots making funny faces I made

 

[correojon]

It's not a game I've personally completed so I'm only going by word of mouth here, but isn't Yoshi's Island/Story supposed to have pretty good boss fights? Though I suppose it has the whole egg shooting mechanic that adds another layer, not simply jumping... That's a tricky problem to solve only through jumping, indeed (though it's going to be one I need to tackle eventually so might as well start brainstorming now).

Yeah, Yoshi´s Island doe it right but it´s a game in which you can shoot so it isn´t what I´m after. Anyway the rest of the game is fantastic too, so i should probably include it in the list as well.

The main path I wanted to explore for boss fights in a 2D platformer using only traversal mechanics (not simply jumping on them, though, so there's a difference right there) was adding a puzzle-like element to figure out how to use the environment against them (ie=collapsing platforms/walls on them, trapping them, forcing them towards harmful zones...). Not saying much more, in part because I don't have much more (yet ) and also because I want to keep some surprises of my own for said 2D platformer I'm now DYING to make, but maybe there's something to figure out there that could help you as well?

Yeah that´s an approach I´d like to take, but I have to find a balance with a puzzle that mixes well with the boss. I mean, if I make the puzzle too complex then the boss will have to be very simple so as to not overwhelm the player. Conversely, if I make a boss with cool attack patterns like in Mega Man the puzzle must be made more simple, so the solution of the fight can be trivial. Finding this balance will be the key and it´s going to be very hard. Anyway, I sent you a PM

Hah, maybe! I keep hoping we'd have a ZX3, myself, but something more combo/action oriented probably would've worked, too! On that note, isn't Dust's fighting system pretty close to that? Or... uh, the Dishwasher, maybe? But we're veering much closer to pure 2D action than platforming, here, perhaps...

I haven´t played ZX3. Is the ZX series good, compared to the X and Z series?

Also, I would add Mutant Mudds and Xeodrifter to the "learn from these", rather than the other category! They may be by the numbers, but it's especially interesting to see what exactly these numbers are, and why it works there (and not, say, in the myriad other by the numbers platformers who didn't have good movement feel). I actually rather enjoy those two games!

Lol I thought about it the opposite way: "these are the numbers, so my game must shine in comparison to them, if I end up with something like this I´ll need to pump it up". Maybe I´ll add them to a third "correct" category, something to measure my game against.

Edit:

Adventures of Shuggy (has a free demo) is a pretty interesting platformer from the 'cautionary tale' side of things, because it honestly doesn't get anything wrong, is absolutely bursting with mechanics, and jam packed full of levels applying those mechanics in interesting ways.

You've probably never heard of it, let alone played it.

e:
Crap, top of page... uhh.... here's some robots making funny faces I made

Cool, I´ll add it to the list, sounds very interesting. Thanks!

And lol at those faces. That must look great in movement, almost thought the robots were 2D.