RIP all of us
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GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay
- Thread starter Jacksinthe
- Start date
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RIP all of us
Man. This graph. That's 12.6 games per day in 2016...back when Before the Echo was released in 2011, that many games took over two weeks to come out.
Gosh. 2017 is going to be killer... and I don't even know when I'll finish XD
Yes, Sir!
Well, I get the feeling to better sell tidbits of code etc. for other game
developers to use instead of trying to fight that crowded marked. Would turn
the disadvantage of having to deal with that market into an advantage all of
a sudden.
Man. This graph. That's 12.6 games per day in 2016...back when Before the Echo was released in 2011, that many games took over two weeks to come out.
I think this shows that releasing on multiple platforms is more important than ever. Xbox One and PS4 are not as flooded (yet...), and let's see how the Switch will handle indie dev.
Sorry to hear that, hope that someday you´ll get energies out of somewhere and start that RPG
Very good article, thanks for letting us know! The comments after the article are very instructive too.
HammerOfThor
Member
I read the AMA with the Stardew Valley dev, and he mentioned he wrote his own scripting language for the same. What does this refer to? Why would I need a scripting language if I'm already writing in C#?
BlazeHedgehog
Member
A scripting language can give you quick and easy control over a narrow set of functions without having to dip in to writing and compiling actual code.
For example, a scripting engine to handle dialog would be very useful. Imagine having to recompile your game every time you find a typo -- for big games, compile times can take 30-90 seconds, and for REALLY big games, we're talking compile times of several minutes.
By externalizing that system, and making it a scripting language that doesn't need to be compiled (or compiles very simply/quickly), you can speed up your workflow quite a bit.
But it's not meant for general game logic. It's just a shortcut for some subsystems so you can make quick modifications without having to build the entire game every single time you change something.
HammerOfThor
Member
Awww, makes perfect sense! Thanks!
LordRaptor
Member
Also for translation purposes, if you decouple your texts into something like .CSV or .XML its vastly easier to spellcheck / translate / rewrite than finding hardcoded strings
Still like the art style, mind you!......
Shaking off those animation cobwebs. Starting to have some fun.
Can we see some other game assets?This morning I finished something I am quite proud of. I wrote down the scenarios and first draft of the script of the first area of the JRPG-like game I'm making which I'm planning into making into a demo. Also did most of the basic room planning and trying to make sure that there is good pacing in events, fights, and scenarios. I've never really done creative writing so this was very different for me. Comedy writing is hard. Some of is super bad but for a first draft I'm incredibly happy I did it. Needs plenty of revisions and possible additions and subtractions.
Also happy that it gives me a goal in building my game and what assets I want and need for it. Super excited guys. Haven't felt this motivated and excited about my game in a quite awhile. Now once my classes are done, I'll get back to programming this thing.
Also happy that it gives me a goal in building my game and what assets I want and need for it. Super excited guys. Haven't felt this motivated and excited about my game in a quite awhile. Now once my classes are done, I'll get back to programming this thing.
"Screw this spot in particular !"
Thanks for all the nice comments people ! Done with throwing axes. Right now I'm going to work on doing a bit more background work as this one now has been getting old and needs some variety (gotta play with platforms, pits etc)
Looks great! Can you throw them in any direction? How does that work?
You can throw them straight, or diagonally down or up in front of you (either from the ground or in the air). There's also a limited quantity so you'll have to be careful with their usage
Feeling completely depressed this week, don't know if it's just the fatigue taking its toll or something else. Managed to make it to the end of this week's planned animations, but I wonder if I'll manage to do everything left scheduled before the end of the year.
Here's a preview of tomorrow's screenshot saturday twitter gif-dump. Got 11 attacks in, about 1/3 of the planned Warrior combat moveset. Even just that is already more than Honey had, though, heh.
I've also reworked the camera a bit (zoom+scrolling behavior), along with some of the Acrobat's abilities, based on a discussion with Correojon (thanks again!). We talked about the potential of the wall stick->vertical jump move, for which I argued that I didn't want it to be too overpowered so it didn't allow for vertical jump gain using it. In practice, though, I understand how it can be frustrating for players not to have access to the ability all the time
, so I'm trying it that way for a while. It can now be used as a direct vertical climbing move - gotta admit, it's pretty fun, so I'll adjust the LD to limit its potential if necessary.
Here's a preview of tomorrow's screenshot saturday twitter gif-dump. Got 11 attacks in, about 1/3 of the planned Warrior combat moveset. Even just that is already more than Honey had, though, heh.
I've also reworked the camera a bit (zoom+scrolling behavior), along with some of the Acrobat's abilities, based on a discussion with Correojon (thanks again!). We talked about the potential of the wall stick->vertical jump move, for which I argued that I didn't want it to be too overpowered so it didn't allow for vertical jump gain using it. In practice, though, I understand how it can be frustrating for players not to have access to the ability all the time
and I don't trust my thought and design instincts anymore
frozenmeatpopsicle
Neo Member
Still like the art style, mind you!
I would love to, but we don't have any other game assets yet. We've only really just started actually making the game.
As a project never dies, it's just put on the side a little! We're back to the cute hamster lol!
Trying to refocus, simplify the scope. Making it a smartphone game to limit the ambition here. Small levels short levels with high replayability, nice controls, gamer oriented! Auto-runner (like jungle run) but with more flexible and subtle controls. Less linear.
Still we're prototyping at this point but it's more encouraging. It feels good to control
Not sure everyone can see webm without plugin ?
http://orioto.free.fr//P1010016.webm
Trying to refocus, simplify the scope. Making it a smartphone game to limit the ambition here. Small levels short levels with high replayability, nice controls, gamer oriented! Auto-runner (like jungle run) but with more flexible and subtle controls. Less linear.
Still we're prototyping at this point but it's more encouraging. It feels good to control
Not sure everyone can see webm without plugin ?
http://orioto.free.fr//P1010016.webm
Dat's pretty good. Love your art man.
Stuff - here's the more detailed breakdown. 18 more moves to go!
If you want to try out the prototype (v0.019), I could use any and all feedback:
pehesse.fr/honey/pachacuti
(keyboard only for now for the Warrior, keys are: directional, control for kicks, maj for walk, spacebar to jump, W/X for attacks, Q for block, S for throws, tab to switch characters. I'll move them to a more comfortable ZQSD/WASD layout when I'm sure of what I need and what I don't - I'll also need to figure how to make that layout region independant)
The other GIFs are here:
https://twitter.com/lavantdapres/status/804956552994156544
If you want to try out the prototype (v0.019), I could use any and all feedback:
pehesse.fr/honey/pachacuti
(keyboard only for now for the Warrior, keys are: directional, control for kicks, maj for walk, spacebar to jump, W/X for attacks, Q for block, S for throws, tab to switch characters. I'll move them to a more comfortable ZQSD/WASD layout when I'm sure of what I need and what I don't - I'll also need to figure how to make that layout region independant)
The other GIFs are here:
https://twitter.com/lavantdapres/status/804956552994156544
Thx!
For those interested, there's a sale on Construct 2 licenses: https://www.scirra.com/store/construct-2
Oh man... oh man...
So, today in the morning our BitBucket repo decided to kick the bucket (ha!) after its storage went over the 2GB quota. Why did it go overboard on a small platformer game, you ask? One of the biggest issues was the WWise sound system, which took up over 900MBs by itself, with many files which were actually saved by triplicate, one for each platform (Win, Mac, Linux)! None of us know how to make it work again, so we're trying to get a new repo up and running after trimming lots of unnecessary files and hope it doesn't happen again...
Oh, and we're two days away from the game's launch, and still trying to implement a couple things while also fixing some bugs that have been spotted by beta testers.
Oh, and the other programmer and I are both about to return to Argentina after our trip in Japan, so we're really busy packing things, buying souvenirs and trying to actually enjoy our last couple days in Japan.
Oh, and I have a freelance job I've been neglecting due to the shitstorm that has been the game's pre-launch, and bills sadly don't pay themselves.
The team right now:
So, today in the morning our BitBucket repo decided to kick the bucket (ha!) after its storage went over the 2GB quota. Why did it go overboard on a small platformer game, you ask? One of the biggest issues was the WWise sound system, which took up over 900MBs by itself, with many files which were actually saved by triplicate, one for each platform (Win, Mac, Linux)! None of us know how to make it work again, so we're trying to get a new repo up and running after trimming lots of unnecessary files and hope it doesn't happen again...
Oh, and we're two days away from the game's launch, and still trying to implement a couple things while also fixing some bugs that have been spotted by beta testers.
Oh, and the other programmer and I are both about to return to Argentina after our trip in Japan, so we're really busy packing things, buying souvenirs and trying to actually enjoy our last couple days in Japan.
Oh, and I have a freelance job I've been neglecting due to the shitstorm that has been the game's pre-launch, and bills sadly don't pay themselves.
The team right now:
Your options are to immediately move to Gitlab which has 10GB limit or to interactive rebase the audio system into GLFS.
https://gitlab.com/
https://git-lfs.github.com/
https://gitlab.com/
https://git-lfs.github.com/
Are there any good fog tools out there for Unity? Preferably free. I'm currently trying to use a cloud generator called CloudsToy and placing the clouds just below ground level, but well, look how that turns out (not final settings but still):
Not quite what I'd prefer, and a far cry from volumetric fog of course. Is it possible to make a believable fog effect along the ground with the particle system somehow? I have a snowflake generator that pumps out around 5000 particles without any issues so some fog might not impact much at all I suppose.
Edit: I did some settings alterations and got some nicer results, but I think I'm getting some slight performance drops. On the other hand, it seems my cubes, lighting and nothing but realtime shadows are giving me some 15-20 fps drops anyway, I just never counted them before :lol
Edit2: It seems creating geometry with ProBuilder, the free version, isn't that great for the polycount. Pretty much everything I've made has useless backfaces inside the object. It's like Extrude isn't just making things bigger, it adds another cube next to the previous one, so the two sides that connect, have at least 4 polygons wasted. Could that potentially explain why I get a 30 fps drop from looking at a more complex model? It's like if I'm looking into a ProBuilder wall, I get 60 fps easily, and if I turn around and look at something more advanced, it drops instantly, at least according to fraps. Still, I doubt we're talking about millions of polys, everything is cubes and 45 degree slopes, apart from lights.
Not quite what I'd prefer, and a far cry from volumetric fog of course. Is it possible to make a believable fog effect along the ground with the particle system somehow? I have a snowflake generator that pumps out around 5000 particles without any issues so some fog might not impact much at all I suppose.
Edit: I did some settings alterations and got some nicer results, but I think I'm getting some slight performance drops. On the other hand, it seems my cubes, lighting and nothing but realtime shadows are giving me some 15-20 fps drops anyway, I just never counted them before :lol
Edit2: It seems creating geometry with ProBuilder, the free version, isn't that great for the polycount. Pretty much everything I've made has useless backfaces inside the object. It's like Extrude isn't just making things bigger, it adds another cube next to the previous one, so the two sides that connect, have at least 4 polygons wasted. Could that potentially explain why I get a 30 fps drop from looking at a more complex model? It's like if I'm looking into a ProBuilder wall, I get 60 fps easily, and if I turn around and look at something more advanced, it drops instantly, at least according to fraps. Still, I doubt we're talking about millions of polys, everything is cubes and 45 degree slopes, apart from lights.
Anybody doing this gamejam for Gamemaker Studio 2? https://itch.io/jam/gms2betajam
I'm working on a twin stick shooter to quickly learn GM 2.
It's sort of like Geometry Wars meets Ikaruga.
I'm working on a twin stick shooter to quickly learn GM 2.
It's sort of like Geometry Wars meets Ikaruga.
Rear Window
Neo Member
Looking for an audio magician for music and sound effects for an action-adventure RPG. Any referrals?
VisceralBowl
Member
This is unreal tournament/ue4, but is this close to what you're looking for?
That's just 5 planes at varying height with a special material which fades near the edges of objects. . You could maybe get something similar with a particle system. Both are probably better overall than using actual clouds that phase through the level.
Can I see what you mean by framedrops?
Yeah that's exactly what I mean, like liquid nitrogen. By framedrops I mean that my overall framerate drops from 60 to around 30 depending on what I'm looking at. My levels aren't big, no more than a max of 200 units with walls around it, and cube-based geometry.This is unreal tournament/ue4, but is this close to what you're looking for?
That's just 5 planes at varying height with a special material which fades near the edges of objects. . You could maybe get something similar with a particle system. Both are probably better overall than using actual clouds that phase through the level.
Can I see what you mean by framedrops?
Spent a lot of time this week refining how the forest look to make it closer to my concepts. I fucking hate drawing leaves and trees now. BUT HEY IT LOOKS NICE
This is closer somewhat to the final look of some of the forest level in terms of mood at least. Imma take a break from devving on Helvetii (need a break in general) and next thing will be expanding and new enemies and STANDOS
Jacksinthe
Banned
These are insane!
VisceralBowl
Member
I'm not sure how Unity materials work but you could probably search around and find somebody's version of a fog sheet material in Unity and then just layer a few planes with them applied like I did. I also did some googling and found out that Unity has this thing. Have you tried adding one of those and playing with the height/density to get the result you're after?
As for the frame drops that seems really weird. I'd have to see the map/play with it to know more. Does Unity have a performance debugger? Maybe start there.
In the end we somehow managed to prod the musician enough to remove 600 MBs' worth of unnecessary files from the project, and managed to re-upload it to a new repo. Still, we'll probably be switching over to gitlab for out next project since we'd rather not have to go through this hell again, so thanks a lot for the recommendations!
Yeah, there's a profiler window you can use. It's great since you can check specific frames to see all the processes that had been running at the time as well as how long each of them took, making it really easy to spot resource hogs. For example, I was sure the game was running slowly while in the levels, and when I checked the profiler I quickly spotted that the Camera.Render routine was taking over 60% of the frame time due to ProCamera2D's lovely parallax system requiring a camera for each freaking plane (which is a downright awful idea, performance-wise), so I worked my own simplified version of layer parallax that didn't require additional cameras and got the render time down to about 20% per frame.
Thanks a lot, Jack
By the way, how's Mainframe One coming along? On the same blog I posted earlier, there were also a few articles about Metroidvania design, might be of interest to some around here?
http://subtractivedesign.blogspot.fr/2013/01/guide-to-making-metroidvania-style.html
http://subtractivedesign.blogspot.fr/2013/01/guide-to-making-metroidvania-style_16.html
oh my friend Kynan wrote those!
Personally I've come to dislike metroidvania in general and I don't think there's any fresh way to do it. With some of the OG games it was very natural, but at this point it always feels forced. I don't see doing one again
Yeah, even though I haven't designed a metroidvania proper (yet), I kind of agree - in fact, Pachacuti's design was originally much more metroidvania like, but when I tried to deconstruct it to really find what I was aiming for, a linear structure seemed to fit it best.
Regarding metroidvanias and the "powerup" kind of progression/character arc, I don't really see much in terms of new traversal abilities that haven't been tried before, though I was really fond of the "bash" mechanic from ori and the teleport from Axiom Verge. Overall, if I were to work on a metroidvania-esque design in this day and age, I'd focus less on trying to find new powers (and that's not even considering combat, which I may try to avoid entirely), and rather discuss their meaning and role in the context of the game: for instance, you may be getting new powers, but should you be actually using them? That kind of stuff.
But still, I gotta admit: even with all the above caveats and misgivings and the saturation of the genre of late... I'd love to do one of these someday, maybe just as a stylistic exercice, even if it brings nothing new to the table! (though that'd basically be participating in market saturation, so that might be a big argument against, but... I kinda want to build a big castle/underground base/alien planet/spirit realm or whatever to run around in someday :v)
Maybe simply (re)making the old formula in "new" contexts (or at least, ones that haven't been too explored previously) is worthy enough of interest in and of itself?
Starting to work on the actual graphics, finally
Lots of leaves and vegetation MrHoot, but i use photomanipulation so that's more easy
YOU DO NOT KNOW PAIN
Also looking pretty damn good :3
Thx, your game rocks to, it's interesting to see the different art styles
Jacksinthe
Banned
It's somewhere ha! Life took a bad turn a bit back and I needed some time to let things get better. Been pecking at it here and there but I start full-time dev next week so I'm excited to get things moving again. Made the decision to pull back from PSX this year a few months back, after talking with my rep we thought it best to shoot for next year being closer to release. Sucks because a lot of my friends went and I'd finally get to meet some of the folks at Sony who have been stupidly kind with helping us out but that'll just make next year that much better I hope.Thanks a lot, Jack
I've been lurking here but without much new to show I've stayed away. Still just dropping my jaw with your work, dude. It's bonkers!
Need a bit of advice when it comes to music for my game. I have zero musical talents and I'm assuming that instead of trying to learn both music/composing and production it will probably be better to find someone to do the music for me. Anybody have any experience or advice with this? I'm just thinking trying to contact some composers on SoundCloud and see if they are interested in my project and mentioning commissioning for a demo with possible longer term prospects. One thing I know is that I'm going to be very picky and probably a pain to work with lol. I'm not sure if this is the best way to go about it so some advice would be helpful.
exmachina64
Banned
Starting to work on the actual graphics, finally
Lots of leaves and vegetation MrHoot, but i use photomanipulation so that's more easy
That looks pretty good so far.
Oh, I'm both sorry to hear you went through a rough patch, and glad to know it's getting better! Looking forward to next year, then, and if you ever need a tester, sign me up
TheHollowNight
Member
Looks fantastic as always!
https://github.com/keijiro/FadeToSkybox
Try this out, slightly better than Unity's stock global fog.
As for myself, I've been working on some more scripting stuff, including a couple more arena variants:
We've also re-added our rain weather variant, looks great when it catches the light! (also RIP droid):
More passive drone combat:
New Solus Loot piece!
Starting to work on the actual graphics, finally
Lots of leaves and vegetation MrHoot, but i use photomanipulation so that's more easy
That loooks sick! Can´t wait to see it finished with the main background, awesome work!
timetokill
Banned
I need my PC back damn it ....
Been in the middle of moving/house renovation for months without PC access.... slowly dying
Been in the middle of moving/house renovation for months without PC access.... slowly dying
Thanks a lot, and same to you!
==
I heard recently about a platform, currently in development, that aims to have a "netflix model for games", with a specific focus towards indie games. The games would be streamable on any compatible device (including phones and tablets, or so I understand). Users would pay a flat fee to access all content for an unlimited period of time each month, and the content creators would then be compensated based on what specific games any user chooses to play (and not based on time played, so that every game would be equal and not skewed towards intentionally longer designed games such as clickers or grindfests).
I wanted to know what you all think of this model? I'll admit, I'm quite interested myself and it feels like an actually realistic alternative to my own approach and goals (which definitely look to be too idealistic to actually work in the current climate), and I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to have Honey on there! What do you all think?
==
Also, just in case, I'll pimp out again the current Pacha prototype, as I need all feedback I can get, and you need nothing to play it beyond five minutes of free time (it's playable in browser using your keyboard, and should even potentially work on mobile if you're daring enough to try it)!
The v.0.019 prototype is here: pehesse.fr/honey/pachacuti
Basic controls are directional pad, Spacebar for jump, W/X for attacks, Q for block/glide, S for throw (warrior only), maj to walk, ctrl for kick/roll/slide, and tab to switch between the two forms.
The Warrior still lacks her ground to air and full air traversal combat moves, making her movement palette a bit more limited than the Acrobat's, but she's already advanced enough to get a feel as to how she'll eventually play (barring any drastic changes).
I'm mostly interested in how it feels to play for now - there are plenty of bugs left to fix and I'd love to hear about them, but I'd mainly like to get the movement and control feel right in priority. Your help for this will be *greatly* appreciated, thanks in advance!
I need my PC back damn it ....
Been in the middle of moving/house renovation for months without PC access.... slowly dying
And yet, amidst all the chaos, you take the time to study french?! :-D
I can feel your pain, though - whenever I move (which doesn't happen too often, admittedly, but still more than I'd like), I tend to make sure my computer is the last thing plugged out/first thing plugged back in... I NEEDS IT (case in point, we moved out four months ago, and I'm quite literally only just now finishing to build the last pieces of furniture since I'm taking a few days' break off Pacha :-D Living in cardboard boxes has its charm up to a point!)
LordRaptor
Member
Headsup for anyone thinking about Ludum Dare this weekend, it looks like its on a new site and you'll probably need to create a new account using your old account email details.
Probably better to get this out of the way now rather than in the panic stages of the last few hours before submission deadline, if you're anything like me XD
Probably better to get this out of the way now rather than in the panic stages of the last few hours before submission deadline, if you're anything like me XD
BlazeHedgehog
Member
Eeeeeeeee I've been Greenlit
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