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GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay

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LordRaptor

Member
For some reasons I like these faked nighties. Wasn't it done by shooting at
daylight on tungsten film producing these blueish-greenish tan?

I'm not sure of the specific technical method, but its very recognisable by giving whites a blue tint. The old "reality is unrealistic" trope is very true, and if in doubt on whether something looks right or not, its worth trying to find a film that does something similar, because thats what people expect things to do.

Thats why things explode in space!
 
Been pretty quiet as of late, mainly because we've been sorting out events and other important things!

Firstly, we have a functioning map system in the game! (hurrah!)
QJONmPE.png

This is the first pass, which works with a 'fog-of-war' mechanic, slowly unveiling the map as you explore. Eventually you'll be able to pan and zoom around too.
There will be additional secrets in the Discoveries checklist displayed as a <?> icon, but won't be marked on the map until you find them.

Secondly, We also finally have a working tutorial in the game that isn't a crappy image slide! This guides you through the basic mechanics as you actively play the game rather than stopping you to blurt info obnoxiously. We've also made it so the tutorial section is hard-coded to only ever show up ONCE per PC. we'll probably add on option in the settings to re-enable it upon release.

Finally, We'll be at PAX East for the first time ever this year!

We're part of the Indie Mini Bar, a small booth on the main show floor along with 4 other games. Our friends at Unity who run the booth were kind enough to offer us a space, so we're super grateful and excited to finally show the game off on the east coast!
 

TheExodu5

Banned
I need a push in the right direction. Maybe I need to either check out the Unity forums. The problem is I really don't know the right terms for what I'm looking for, so finding the information is difficult.

I want to make a 2D game but I don't want it to be sprite based at all. I'm looking for straight up geometric shapes. Mono color is fine to begin with.

Basically, something like Spaceplan or even Downswell.

But I need to be able to procedurally generate it but also have the ability to move the lines and have them correspond to colliders.

Unfortunately I'm just jumping into it headfirst and I can't really find any good sample projects to base my work on. I might just need to delve into the libraries and hope I find something useful.

I mean, I could use simple white sprites to draw my lines and they would already have colliders attached to them, but I imagine that it would be incredibly heavy handed and wouldn't perform terribly well.


edit:

I basically need to know how I could start at recreating this in Unity to begin with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rKkaXf68sA
 

EDarkness

Member
What film and TV tend to do (or used to when cameras weren't as good, certainly) when doing "night time" scenes is shoot during the daytime but underexpose and use filters - nowadays cameras are better and can handle low light better, but you still see "night" scenes that are just digitally edited in post-production.

You can probably use some sort of tone mapping to get a 'cinematic' night time / darkness without changing your 'daylight' light settings too dramatically, and it will probably be as palatable to an audience as the same cheating done in film is

I might have to mess around with this. It's something I hadn't considered.

What if the you add some light attached to the character? (could be via a lantern or simply an invisible source like many games do). That way you can keep the claustrophobic sense of the darkness surrounding the player and yet be able to see things that are closer to the char... it even adds some "anxiety factor"...

Dark Souls does that really well. If you're not familiar with the series you can take a look at Tomb of the Giants to see what I mean. :D

wg3GU9L.gif

Honestly, this was my original idea. Since the main character is a mage, I thought should would (and should) cast a light spell that follows her around. I tried it, but wasn't happy with how it behaved. I'll probably try again, this time using the orb that follows her as an AI character with no intelligence.


What engine are you working with? Don't know, but if I got may stuff working,
I may make an assets and sell in some stores. Who knows?

I'm using Unity.


One misunderstanding of dark scenes is that people think the scene needs to
be dark on a perceptual basis as well, which is not the case. For, in a dark
scene the eyes adapt to the low light making it to appear bright as well. So
for example, if you sit in a dark room without any other light but the light
from the moon shining through the window, the room will appear bright to you
with your eyes fully dark adapted. So there is a sensation of brightness even
at night, which is what the rods are for. From memory you can tell that a
daylight lit scene is brighter than when being in that dark room with the moon
shining in, but that is relative, the relation isn't even linear because of
the receptors auto-gain control amplifying the signal. Roughly speaking, the
rods, i.e. receptors making vision at night possible, amplify the signal
(photons) via gain control. But there are limits. What makes the sensation of
brightness go away at night is that the receptors gain control operate more
and more towards their maximum trying to amplifying these few photon, i.e. a
weak signal, which, as every engineer knows, amplifies the noise as well. That
is to say, before the scene goes pitch black the perception of it becomes
noisy.

Summing up; you can have a scene appearing bright and even communicate the
scene as being dark.

However, to realize this a couple if things are needed like modelling the
adaptation rates between day and night vision, modelling of the colors and
brightness of objects esp. at (day+night)/2 vision, modelling of chromatic
adaptation (dominant light source), etc..

This sounds all a bit too complicated, but you may produce a simple variant by
interpolating the colors to gray or to any dominate color present at night
(bluish for moonlight scene for example) depending on the average scene
luminance. Won't produce the best results, but you still get sort of an effect
depending on the average scene luminance. About that.

Not sure how to get that done, but I'll do some research on it. It's not a high priority at the moment, but I do want to ultimately get something function working. The real issue is performance. This game has to run on the Wii U without too many compromises.


You can't really make the scene dark to simulate darkness. Sure, it's a
rude approximation, but won't hold up that well. There is another problem
with this sort of things. People need to have their TV adjusted rightfully to
see your intended dark shades. If the setting is off, the dark shades may
crush to black. Banding may also become a big problem.

I've run the game on many types of computers at this point and I've never noticed any banding. Most people say it looks great in motion, but it's just hard to see anything. Which I can understand. It's supposed to be dark, but I see what you mean about how we view darkness in the first place. I do want it to be fairly scary or foreboding, so that's something I have to juggle.



Yeah, looks desaturated. Either the textures are that way, or it could be a
tonemapper problem. Are you using HDR?

HDR is turned off since the Wii U can't use that anyway. I think it's the way the lights are setup that's giving it that look.
 

zq_audio

Neo Member
No images on this update, but...Arkhangel: The House of the Seven Stars is now alpha. Holy crap. I've been working on this game in some way, shape, or form for almost five years now.

This is weird.

I'll post more info soon, but it's going to be released this year.

Holy crap.

-zq
www.winternightgames.com
 
Yeah, this was my first GGJ and I had a terrible time. Our group was comprised of strangers and everything that could go wrong went wrong (completely changed game ideas halfway through, team members left, morale was low etc). Early Sunday morning, I went back to the original idea and attempted to salvage it and we ended up with this:
http://globalgamejam.org/2017/games/newton-defence

AfuEYHX.gif
This looks fun. Also sorry for the late reply.

I will def. Do other Gamejams, but choose my team better and establish some ground rules
 

dude

dude
Check Reverse Design: http://thegamedesignforum.com/books/books.html
I´ve only checked the SMW one and it was excelent, analyzing every level with a lot of detail and explaining the logic behind the simplest mechanics like Mario´s jump. Lots of pictures and diagrams to make it very illustrative and easy to read through in short bursts (I also read it during commuting to work). Oh and if you find any other recommendable book please share it!

A Theory of Fun by Raph Koster.

Additionally, anything written by Chris Crawford. He's kind of a genius. Most of his stuff is old, but it still applies.

Thanks guys! I bought A Theory of Fun and the SMW Reverse-design. I also downloaded about 14 different free samples to my Kindle, and I'll check them out through the week and buy what seems good to me. If I come across anything interesting I'll let you know :)
 

missile

Member
... Not sure how to get that done, but I'll do some research on it. It's not a high priority at the moment, but I do want to ultimately get something function working. The real issue is performance. This game has to run on the Wii U without too many compromises. ...
In general, performance is definitely a thing. But here is a very simple
version you may try. The cheapest variant I can imagine is to simply have a
parameter t running in [0,1] with zero indicating a dark scene and 1 a fully
lit one. This parameter can then be used to interpolate the *colors* of the
pixels to gray. Hence, if the scene gets very dark it will gray out (as it
should), yet you can use whatever color you see fit (try blue with a little
pink, that's how dark scenes are communicated looking at many artists of past
centuries, moonlight and friends). Next to the colors, the luminance channel
will undergo some amplification (auto-exposure) depending on the parameter t
to make a dark scene look more brighter. The player won't misinterpret that
dark-bright as daylight-bright, because the colors look a bit different from
those at daylight. The parameter t should be controlled smoothly to not make
things pop and also to somehow simulate sort of an adaptation.


... I've run the game on many types of computers at this point and I've never noticed any banding. ...
Ah, I see, you don't use HDR.
 

DemonNite

Member
Haven't had much to share the last week but been working on AI and putting in place more searching ability. Things that make a noise (picking up objects, dropping/throwing an object and opening doors/chests) will leave a last known location node.

Right now I am introducing the ability for the main antagonist to be able to crawl in the ceiling spaces as well as be an exit route for her.

PoSlUYm.png


Also decided to turn off the dreadful DoF which was always ON and reserve that for during Hiding and Climbing only. Gives the game much better clarity to see the spooky things ahead.

dAnmMPP.png


And finalised the sleeping Chamber entrance where she rests

h6p9CrG.png


This is an older shot of a death sequence when she gets you.

7Bedlmv.png
 

missile

Member
missile, if i'm using unlit wireframes on a solid black background, would there be any benefit to HDR?
Basically, I don't think it's worth the effort. Unless you want to pimp it all,
i.e. making the wireframe very bright or glow. But if you start with any
lighting I would use HDR for sure, for, it makes things easier. But even for
the wireframes you may want to have some more range. For example, one cool
effect for wireframes is to depth cue them, making them darker with distance
or very bright for close distances. But also accumulation (blending the colors
over another) looks cool for some wireframes. Having some good range to play
with in these cases isn't the worst of all worlds. So it depends on where you
wanna go with all these lines.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Does anyone here know, if in Unity the check if an object is seen by a camera is expensive (i.e. is it computing it, or remembering it from the last update)? In my platformer, I have collectibles that spin, but it is sufficient if they spin when they are visible. So I could reduce the number of rotations that need to be computed in each iteration by at most 110 (10 big collectibles, 100 small ones) if I check every time if the object is visible. However, if the Unity function that gives me this information does any operations to determine this other than remembering from the previous update, this would hardly be a good investment.
 

_Rob_

Member
Does anyone here know, if in Unity the check if an object is seen by a camera is expensive (i.e. is it computing it, or remembering it from the last update)? In my platformer, I have collectibles that spin, but it is sufficient if they spin when they are visible. So I could reduce the number of rotations that need to be computed in each iteration by at most 110 (10 big collectibles, 100 small ones) if I check every time if the object is visible. However, if the Unity function that gives me this information does any operations to determine this other than remembering from the previous update, this would hardly be a good investment.

Can you not use occlusion culling to achieve this without extra scripting?
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Can you not use occlusion culling to achieve this without extra scripting?

No, because I'm not talking about the rendering, but the rotation. If an object is not being rendered, that does not mean that positional information is not updated (and it would be bad if it meant that, imagine synchronised rotating platforms). I'm talking about the computation of the rotation of the object, which is not a completely trivial task either.
 

DemonNite

Member
Does anyone here know, if in Unity the check if an object is seen by a camera is expensive (i.e. is it computing it, or remembering it from the last update)? In my platformer, I have collectibles that spin, but it is sufficient if they spin when they are visible. So I could reduce the number of rotations that need to be computed in each iteration by at most 110 (10 big collectibles, 100 small ones) if I check every time if the object is visible. However, if the Unity function that gives me this information does any operations to determine this other than remembering from the previous update, this would hardly be a good investment.

Can't say for sure but a while ago it was expensive on a mobile game I was making. Alternatively could you not rotate them based on distance to the player? Being a platformer. Not sure on expense.
 

Dascu

Member
Does anyone here know, if in Unity the check if an object is seen by a camera is expensive (i.e. is it computing it, or remembering it from the last update)? In my platformer, I have collectibles that spin, but it is sufficient if they spin when they are visible. So I could reduce the number of rotations that need to be computed in each iteration by at most 110 (10 big collectibles, 100 small ones) if I check every time if the object is visible. However, if the Unity function that gives me this information does any operations to determine this other than remembering from the previous update, this would hardly be a good investment.

If it has a renderer, you could use https://docs.unity3d.com/ScriptReference/Renderer-isVisible.html

Another option is that the objects check what their distance is to the player?

I'm wondering why you would assume 100 objects with a rotation script is really all that CPU intense though.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Can't say for sure but a while ago it was expensive on a mobile game I was making. Alternatively could you not rotate them based on distance to the player? Being a platformer. Not sure on expense.
Computing the distance would probably be cheaper than rotating, but not by that much, so I would prefer just checking a boolean.

If it has a renderer, you could use https://docs.unity3d.com/ScriptReference/Renderer-isVisible.html

Another option is that the objects check what their distance is to the player?

I'm wondering why you would assume 100 objects with a rotation script is really all that CPU intense though.
They have renderers and isVisible is what I wanted to use. Do you know (the documentation does not say it :/) if this is using remembered values or computes it in an expensive way?

Rotating 100 objects is not that expensive, of course, and without disabling rotation when invisible, the game is currently running 100% stable at 60 frames on Wii U, but I am very picky about the performance of a skill-based game, so I want to ensure that any reasonably simple improvement in performance is implemented. Also, starting tomorrow, I want to see if I can get the game to run on New 3DS as well, so there, any tiny bit probably counts. Even if a New 3DS version is not possible at the desired performance, giving the game as much headroom as possible appears to me as vital to give as much freedom as possible for the level design.
 

whiteape

Member
First Construct3 info:

At Scirra, we've always believed the future of software is on the web. Six years ago we bet on HTML5 for Construct 2. Back then it was a pretty crazy move. Some even thought it foolish. However we were vindicated: the web has rocketed far beyond everything we dared hope for — and it's still going strong.

As Arthur C. Clarke noted, the only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible. We aim to redefine what is possible with the web. So we built the Construct 3 editor itself for the browser.

Construct 3 works in Chrome on Windows, Mac, Linux, and Chrome OS. There's nothing to install — it's as simple as visiting a website. There are too many new features to list here, so we'll be posting regular updates over the next few weeks going in to more detail. However we've designed it web-first, with features like cloud save, remote preview, integrated WebFonts support, native-grade WebGL rendering, and much more. But don't worry - it'll still work fine when you go offline, even with an intermittent connection, and you can keep your projects offline too if you prefer. And as we promised, Construct 2 projects import with high fidelity. You won't have seen anything like this running in your browser before. And we're nearly ready to share what we've created.

Moving software to the web changes everything. Consequently we've had to make one change to the old way of doing things. As with the vast majority of web-based services, Construct 3 licenses will be based on a subscription rather than a one-off payment. We also know many existing Construct 2 users will be thinking about upgrading. Here's a summary of how pricing and upgrades will work.

A Construct 3 Personal subscription will be $99/year. This covers all export platforms.
Existing licensed Construct 2 users (including on Steam) will get 50% off their first year.
Anyone who buys Construct 2 from today until Construct 3's release will get their first year of Construct 3 for free. To make it a no-brainer, we're also putting Construct 2 on sale for $99. So there's no reason to wait!
If they choose, our existing Education users will be able to upgrade to Construct 3 for the remainder of their license period at no additional cost.
We will still have a basic free edition of Construct 3.
A public beta of Construct 3 will begin by April. At first our focus will be on testing, but we aim to make the full release by summer. We think you'll love it.

You can also follow an FAQ thread in our new Construct 3 forum.

Tomorrow we'll post the first screenshot of Construct 3 in action. On Friday we'll make the first of a series of major feature announcements. Regular updates will continue up until the launch of the public beta. So keep checking back regularly — there's a lot more to come yet!

https://www.scirra.com/blog/183/announcing-construct-3
 

Minamu

Member
Well, I rather listening to music on my commute than podcasts or youtube videos, so books are simply much more convenient for me.
I already watch Extra Credits and Game Maker's Toolkit, I just wanted some books I could read on the go and maybe go more in depth.

Thanks though :)
As someone with a university degree in game design, this is a difficult subject to cover. I recommend Fundamentals of Game Design by the IGDA founder Ernest Adams, really cool guy. There's also a super great book called Game Architecture and Design, that's probably the best book on the topic I've read and it wasn't even a part of my studies :lol Feel free to ask me more. I have a few more books on my shelf but I don't remember their names right now. There's also a card based ios app with design principles that I like.
 

Dascu

Member
Computing the distance would probably be cheaper than rotating, but not by that much, so I would prefer just checking a boolean.


They have renderers and isVisible is what I wanted to use. Do you know (the documentation does not say it :/) if this is using remembered values or computes it in an expensive way?

Rotating 100 objects is not that expensive, of course, and without disabling rotation when invisible, the game is currently running 100% stable at 60 frames on Wii U, but I am very picky about the performance of a skill-based game, so I want to ensure that any reasonably simple improvement in performance is implemented. Also, starting tomorrow, I want to see if I can get the game to run on New 3DS as well, so there, any tiny bit probably counts. Even if a New 3DS version is not possible at the desired performance, giving the game as much headroom as possible appears to me as vital to give as much freedom as possible for the level design.

Can you just check with the Profiler in Unity whether or not there's a noticeable performance impact?

Another option would be to set groups and have one object check the distance per group with the player. So you can de-activate them in chunks of 20 or so at a time. Depends on how close they are together. And if it's a 2D sidescroller, you may not even need to check against Y or Z values?
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Can you just check with the Profiler in Unity whether or not there's a noticeable performance impact?

Another option would be to set groups and have one object check the distance per group with the player. So you can de-activate them in chunks of 20 or so at a time. Depends on how close they are together. And if it's a 2D sidescroller, you may not even need to check against Y or Z values?

Maybe, but since I don't know the profiler, it is probaby easier to do it by just checking 10000 times in one update cycle if an object is visible, this should have an impact on runtime if it is not a simple boolean check.

Regarding the other option, that's definitely a good idea, though it is a 3D platformer and the groupings are closer to rows of 5 than 20, similar as with the coins in Mario or the notes in Banjo. My friend who is helping with the level design would probably not be too happy about that extra task of defining groups though ^^.
 

missile

Member
Does anyone here know, if in Unity the check if an object is seen by a camera is expensive (i.e. is it computing it, or remembering it from the last update)? In my platformer, I have collectibles that spin, but it is sufficient if they spin when they are visible. So I could reduce the number of rotations that need to be computed in each iteration by at most 110 (10 big collectibles, 100 small ones) if I check every time if the object is visible. However, if the Unity function that gives me this information does any operations to determine this other than remembering from the previous update, this would hardly be a good investment.
I don't know because I don't use Unity. But I would be interested if this
query is pixel perfect or not? That is to say, does the rendere actually
project and raster the objects onto to the image plan of any camera or does
the rendered just projects the bounds of it to see whether it and the
view-frustum do intersect?
 

missile

Member
Thought this could be cool. A dia projector:

7KCSkgv.gif


Needs some more work. Not seen here, but shadows falling onto the dia itself
are currently not projected onto the wall. Still working on it.
 

LordRaptor

Member
this should have an impact on runtime if it is not a simple boolean check.

The isvisible command seems to have onvisible and oninvisible triggers, so presumably at worst you could create your own bool thats set / unset on OnVis / OnInvis calls...?
 

Dascu

Member
Maybe, but since I don't know the profiler, it is probaby easier to do it by just checking 10000 times in one update cycle if an object is visible, this should have an impact on runtime if it is not a simple boolean check.

Regarding the other option, that's definitely a good idea, though it is a 3D platformer and the groupings are closer to rows of 5 than 20, similar as with the coins in Mario or the notes in Banjo. My friend who is helping with the level design would probably not be too happy about that extra task of defining groups though ^^.

Another option might be a randomizer to spread it out. E.g. checking 1/60 times to do the isVisible or (preferably) Distance check. This way, on average, you should spread it out and you wouldn't have 100 objects calculating it every frame, but only a 60th of them, and at 60FPSs still have checked all of them.

Pro-tip: depending on the objects, you can also fade them in/out instead of popping them into existence. Good way of hiding it even if you're a couple of frames off.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
I don't know because I don't use Unity. But I would be interested if this
query is pixel perfect or not? That is to say, does the rendere actually
project and raster the objects onto to the image plan of any camera or does
the rendered just projects the bounds of it to see whether it and the
view-frustum do intersect?

Considering the documentation says that if objects are called visible, that this can also be based on the shadow being visible, so I would suppose that yes, it is pixel perfect.

Regarding popping in / out: Currently, I have absolutely no pop in / out implemented, but this will probably be necessary on 3DS, so many thanks for this advice :).
 

SeanNoonan

Member
Construct 3 news is disappointing if a little expected.

I never really used Construct 2 for web games, I was generally using it for standalone, which isn't really what it's made for. It's a shame that they've gone for a subscription model - the updates to the engine would have to be pretty fucking spectacular for me to get on board with paying another monthly or yearly fee.

Construct 2 has unparalleled HTML5 performance and a super intuitive editor, so it makes sense for Scirra to merge these together and push this tech further. Cross platform is awesome, and if they're offering a significant amount of cloud storage as part of the license fee, maybe it balances out?


To those disappointed, it's not like Construct 2 is going away. Who knows, maybe they'll drop the price of the business license. I know I will continue to work in Construct 2 until they show me something that pushes me to make the switch.
 
Wonder if any UE4 people here can help me out -

so i have a laser sight on my "tank" which works great! except when i move in directions opposite to where its pointing (moving sideways when pointing up/down and vice versa) it goes nearly invisible and difficult to see:

11bd1cb2fb.gif
 
Wonder if any UE4 people here can help me out -

so i have a laser sight on my "tank" which works great! except when i move in directions opposite to where its pointing (moving sideways when pointing up/down and vice versa) it goes nearly invisible and difficult to see:

11bd1cb2fb.gif

Is that just a debug line trace? How are you making the laser?

I have a feeling this is partially the laser being too small (a visible line trace is not meant for use in a shipping game imo) and partially TAA being smeary.
 
Been working on getting a conveyor belt section working for my game Cozen Servo. I may need to make it more obvious that the floor is moving before you jump on it and also put some kind of 'tell' on the red firey bits before they activate.

l0Ex26GE1FLPa5cXK.gif


Looking forward to doing a much more complicated version later in the game. With multiple tiers of conveyor belts with jumping,vertical sections and shooting elements.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Has anyone used a Wiimote Plus on PC? I'm looking for what USB Bluetooth dongle might be compatible before making a dedicated thread about it.

I'll be using Windows 7 and UE4 for development.
 
Is that just a debug line trace? How are you making the laser?

I have a feeling this is partially the laser being too small (a visible line trace is not meant for use in a shipping game imo) and partially TAA being smeary.

It's a particle emitter and a light at the end to represent the dot.

TAA is a good idea though, I'll try turning that off
 

Popstar

Member
@Yoshi any additional calculation you do to check if something is visible will likely take more CPU power than just rotating the thing or using isVisible.

Has anyone used a Wiimote Plus on PC? I'm looking for what USB Bluetooth dongle might be compatible before making a dedicated thread about it.

I'll be using Windows 7 and UE4 for development.
Back when I did Wii development I think I went through about a half-dozen different bluetooth dongles looking for one that worked. Bluetooth worked flawlessly with my Mac and the old IBM Thinkpad our designer had. In order to get it too work with any other PC required buying a 3rd-party bluetooth stack (I think it was BlueSoleil).

I'd imagine checking the Dolphin emulator website/forums for recommendations would be your best bet nowadays. Lists like the one at wiibrew.org seem to be out of date.
 

anteevy

Member
It's a particle emitter and a light at the end to represent the dot.

TAA is a good idea though, I'll try turning that off
If it's not an AA issue, you may try to enable "Use Local Space" in the "required" module of your particle emitter. I've had problems with moving particle emitters before, where it always restarted the particles while moving the emitter when it's set to use world space.
 
Try making the particle thicker. Losing one of your two AA options (or three if you're on the forward renderer) is not a great solution.

Thankfully I am ok forward and swapping to MSAA fixed it.

I should be able to deal with the performance hit from that as it won't be anything too crazy graphically :)

EDIT: FXAA works as well, so it's a TAA issue.

Will look into which is better later down the line
 

Blizzard

Banned
@Yoshi any additional calculation you do to check if something is visible will likely take more CPU power than just rotating the thing or using isVisible.

Back when I did Wii development I think I went through about a half-dozen different bluetooth dongles looking for one that worked. Bluetooth worked flawlessly with my Mac and the old IBM Thinkpad our designer had. In order to get it too work with any other PC required buying a 3rd-party bluetooth stack (I think it was BlueSoleil).

I'd imagine checking the Dolphin emulator website/forums for recommendations would be your best bet nowadays. Lists like the one at wiibrew.org seem to be out of date.
I found that list and did indeed have problems locating newer Bluetooth dongles on it. I also asked in the Dolphin thread but haven't received any responses yet.

I'm fine with buying BlueSoleil if the license is compatible with commercial development, but I want to be sure I get a compatible dongle of course. :p
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Considering the documentation says that if objects are called visible, that this can also be based on the shadow being visible, so I would suppose that yes, it is pixel perfect.

Let me correct this, according to what I have found here: http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/560057/detect-if-entity-is-visible-rendererisvisible-will.html it only checks the bounding boxes. For my purpose this is fine and if what is written here is correct, it should also be basically for free :).
 

Lork

Member
Thanks, am learning all this stuff. I really didn't know that tidbit.
That makes me much more confident to go the Xinput route. Do Xinput controllers also tend to mimic the button naming of an Xbox controller? (like face button being same letters and colors)
Licensed third party Xinput controllers are hardly even a factor because the proliferation of the official ones really is that complete, but yes. Here's Logitech's PC offering, for example. The Steam Controller has the Xbox names and uses something like an XInput wrapper to function as a gamepad.

The most popular alternative is the Dual Shock 4 simply because everybody has one, so some games try to go the extra mile and include matching icons and native support for it... And then get into trouble when the game detects both the actual controller and the player's Xinput wrapper at the same time, resulting in double inputs. Whoops!

I think most players who use non conforming alternatives have just gotten used to translating the button names in their head. It's not that hard considering that the actual layouts are identical for pretty much all of them, after all.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Yes, you were right :). I am a bit frustrated with the Unity documentation actually, I would really like to have additionally information on how certain things are computed. It is nice to see what effect a method has, but to decide whether to use it or not, some information about the cost of an operation and what it exactly does (like in this case bounding box checks) would be very helpful.
 

Ranger X

Member
Licensed third party Xinput controllers are hardly even a factor because the proliferation of the official ones really is that complete, but yes. Here's Logitech's PC offering, for example. The Steam Controller has the Xbox names and uses something like an XInput wrapper to function as a gamepad.

The most popular alternative is the Dual Shock 4 simply because everybody has one, so some games try to go the extra mile and include matching icons and native support for it... And then get into trouble when the game detects both the actual controller and the player's Xinput wrapper at the same time, resulting in double inputs. Whoops!

I think most players who use non conforming alternatives have just gotten used to translating the button names in their head. It's not that hard considering that the actual layouts are identical for pretty much all of them, after all.

Yeah, with my game I decided to go the "full keyboard key config + fixed Xinput based layout for controller". I hope its enough for most players! (don't wanna spend all day making a full configurable multi-style controller support)
 

Blizzard

Banned
Back when I did Wii development I think I went through about a half-dozen different bluetooth dongles looking for one that worked. Bluetooth worked flawlessly with my Mac and the old IBM Thinkpad our designer had. In order to get it too work with any other PC required buying a 3rd-party bluetooth stack (I think it was BlueSoleil).

I'd imagine checking the Dolphin emulator website/forums for recommendations would be your best bet nowadays. Lists like the one at wiibrew.org seem to be out of date.
I ended up ordering the DolphinBar off Amazon. Hopefully it works as a general adapter and I can work it into UE4 somehow.
 

Lork

Member
Yeah, with my game I decided to go the "full keyboard key config + fixed Xinput based layout for controller". I hope its enough for most players! (don't wanna spend all day making a full configurable multi-style controller support)
I think that's generally in line with consumer expectations, though not ideal. It's good practice to put controls behind a layer of abstraction that makes different sources of input easily interchangeable - something to think about for future projects.
 
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