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[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

If any of you have any suggestion for another thread I made you can be my new best friend.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=32047290#post32047290

 

[cooljeanius]

:lol Möchtest du ein meerschweinchen sein?

Still dosen't make that much sense though! :lol

Yeah, most of the German I've picked up has been from hearing it, not from seeing it written, so I'm not too good with spelling. I was trying to say, "Would you like to be a guinea pig?" which is just the random kind of nonsense I speak with my family when I'm at home (we have guinea pigs for pets)

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Yeah, most of the German I've picked up has been from hearing it, not from seeing it written, so I'm not too good with spelling. I was trying to say, "Would you like to be a guinea pig?" which is just the random kind of nonsense I speak with my family when I'm at home (we have guinea pigs for pets)

Ya, I know that's why I said it didn't make much sense. What kind of person goes around asking people if they want to be a guinea pig?

Still not bad though, to only slip up on those two letters are really little errors, you knew what you were saying pretty much.

 

[sphinx]

ah, modal particles... most native german speakers struggle when asked to explain how they work. and i don't blame them. it doesn't help that so many of them can be adverbs as well and/or stand for something entirely different. try explaining why "vielleicht" can mean "maybe" or "perhaps" but is also a modal particle used for emphasis (more closely related to adverbs like "very" or "quite").

but once you learn how to use the modal particles they are awesome, and they are a must to speak normally in German.

"mal"..is used in sooo many ways.

"sag mal, spinnst du?"
"da hast du dich mal geirrt"
"ich denke mal, du siehst scheisse aus"

hehehehe, see? you need to use "mal" in order to sound like normal people, otherwise is like German from the books.

EDIT: comd to think of it, not the best sentences to use as examples, but Mal is sure as hell used for everything.

 

[close to the edge]

Das ist immer so merkwürdig Deutsch im Internet zu lesen, oder?

Ich bin immer nur auf englischen Seiten, lese und schreibe in englischen Foren und dann ZACK auf einmal etwas Deutsches dazwischen und mein Hirn muss erstmal wieder umschalten.

Geht es Anderen auch ab und zu so?

Auf jeden Fall. Bis auf Nachrichten, Uni-Zeug und Facebook lese ich alles auf Englisch im Internet.

Es ist witzig, aus der englischen Perspektive über Modalpartikel zu lesen, das ist eine Sache, die der englischen Sprache ja fast komplett fehlt und ich stelle mir vor, wenn man nicht oft Leuten beim Deutsch sprechen zuhört, wird man die nur sehr schwer lernen können, weil die Verwendung teilweise fast beliebig erscheint.

 

[jarosh]

but once you learn how to use the modal particles they are awesome, and they are a must to speak normally in German.

"mal"..is used in sooo many ways.

"sag mal, spinnst du?"
"da hast du dich mal geirrt"
"ich denke mal, du siehst scheisse aus"

hehehehe, see? you need to use "mal" in order to sound like normal people, otherwise is like German from the books.

EDIT: comd to think of it, not the best sentences to use as examples, but Mal is sure as hell used for everything.

well, i didn't mean to imply that modal particles are not important or that a lot of native german speakers somehow don't (know how to) use them. they are of course quite essential. i was trying to say that most native speakers can't explain what they MEAN or even what they ARE. and i don't really blame anyone, as modal particles are very difficult to explain and their meaning and effect on a sentence can vary wildly. (there are inconsistencies and mistakes even in those examples and explanations from the linked wikipedia article!)

german is a complicated language to begin with, it doesn't help that it's littered with these impenetrable and seemingly nonsensical particles. i don't think there are a lot of languages that rely so heavily on modal particles in colloquial speech.

 

[wsippel]

well, i didn't mean to imply that modal particles are not important or that a lot of native german speakers somehow don't (know how to) use them. they are of course quite essential. i was trying to say that most native speakers can't explain what they MEAN or even what they ARE. and i don't really blame anyone, as modal particles are very difficult to explain and their meaning and effect on a sentence can vary wildly. (there are inconsistencies and mistakes even in those examples and explanations from the linked wikipedia article!)

german is a complicated language to begin with, it doesn't help that it's littered with these impenetrable and seemingly nonsensical particles. i don't think there are a lot of languages that rely so heavily on modal particles in colloquial speech.

According to Wikipedia, modal particles are usually quite rare in non-tonal languages. German uses them a lot, as does Japanese and a handful other languages. I noticed more than once that modal particles, as well as other constructs (like the fact that almost every word can be used as substantive, verb or adjective, active or passive, and those contructs can be chained together arbitrarily), throw non native speakers off big time.

I consider German extremely logical and intuitive, but then again, I am German. Looking at it from an outside perspective, I agree that it's quite complex and complicated, but it's also incredibly nuanced and precise. Or more precisely: It's as nuanced and precise as you want it to be.

 

[jarosh]

I consider German extremely logical and intuitive, but then again, I am German. Looking at it from an outside perspective, I agree that it's quite complex and complicated, but it's also incredibly nuanced and precise. Or more precisely: It's as nuanced and precise as you want it to be.

oh i definitely agree with all of that... but i'm a native german speaker as well

 

[wsippel]

oh i definitely agree with all of that... but i'm a native german speaker as well

I know that. Switzerland, right?

 

[which1spink]

Deutschsprachiger Trunkenheits Diskussionsfaden? Deutschsprachiger Trunkenheits Diskussionsfaden.

andherewego.gif

 

[jarosh]

I know that. Switzerland, right?

correct. and we do have our own twisted take on some of the german modal particles.

 

[jarosh]

Deutschsprachiger Trunkenheits Diskussionsfaden? Deutschsprachiger Trunkenheits Diskussionsfaden.

andherewego.gif

this is actually something that saddens me quite a bit, but i think that swiss people specificially are more guilty of than germans: the arbitrary segregation of compound nouns. obviously this is a result of the general americanization of our culture (just like the sudden occurence of redundant apostrophes in the german genitive case in recent years). but the simple truth is that standalone nouns which follow each other are NOT related in german unless they are turned into solid (or rarely: hyphenated) compound nouns. spaced compound nouns don't exist in the german language.

 

[which1spink]

this is actually something that saddens me quite a bit, but i think that swiss people specificially are more guilty of than germans: the arbitrary segregation of compound nouns.

I'm very sorry for not using the appropriate usage of grammar here but I think, you're missing the important factor anyway, which is being drunk ... and giving a fuck about grammer and/or appropriate translation

BTW: I'm Austrian.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

I'm very sorry for not using the appropriate usage of grammar here but I think, you're missing the important factor anyway, which is being drunk ... and giving a fuck about grammer and/or appropriate translation

BTW: I'm Austrian.

This explains everything.

Spoiler

lulz

On a serious note, I really like the Austrian dialect when they speak German. That dialect they speak around the Lake Constance and in Vienna. A couple of years back I didn't like it, but now I really appreciate it. It has sort of a sophisticated touch.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

thanks for that na klar explenation, i hear it often, but when i heard someone respond to someone "na klar" in a reallllly disrepectful way almost, my mind on it was made different.


so far in my German studies I can say that yeah, the Standard language itself is very, very logical, systematic, and thank god the writing reforms made it phonetic.

however, holy shit, i must have nightmares about the particles, the colloquialisms, everything. It's like learning a whole new language! es liegt nicht auf der Hand

I've picked up some of the nuances, like mal to emphasize a request or lighten, and putting 'oder' at the end of opened ended questions. those were easy to pick up, but vielleicht and vielleicht? fuck that!


and the accents? why! "ich spreche aber Hochdeutsch!" NO DUDE, YOU AREN'T, shit sounds scandinavian. Roomates from Düsseldorf, i just nod real respectful like when he talks because its a rapid fire of jumbled mumbles

 

[Krelian]

this is actually something that saddens me quite a bit, but i think that swiss people specificially are more guilty of than germans: the arbitrary segregation of compound nouns. obviously this is a result of the general americanization of our culture (just like the sudden occurence of redundant apostrophes in the german genitive case in recent years). but the simple truth is that standalone nouns which follow each other are NOT related in german unless they are turned into solid (or rarely: hyphenated) compound nouns. spaced compound nouns don't exist in the german language.

While we're on the topic of americanization, it always saddens me when I see constructs such as "In 2012 werden wir bla bla bla"
Even educated people make that mistake and it just baffles me how they can't see that it's just wrong. The correct form is even shorter, it just doesn't make any sense.

 

[wolfmat]

and the accents? why! "ich spreche aber Hochdeutsch!" NO DUDE, YOU AREN'T, shit sounds scandinavian. Roomates from Düsseldorf, i just nod real respectful like when he talks because its a rapid fire of jumbled mumbles

Yeah, the accents and dialects are remarkably diverse, and tend to reliably stick with people.
The room around Hamburg is filled with more than 30 verifiably different variants of Plattdütsch. Like, there are different words for the same thing from one village to the next.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ma5nFPw7Cc

 

[sphinx]

While we're on the topic of americanization, it always saddens me when I see constructs such as "In 2012 werden wir bla bla bla"
Even educated people make that mistake and it just baffles me how they can't see that it's just wrong. The correct form is even shorter, it just doesn't make any sense.

if I learned that correctly, nothing should go before a year. At least that's what I remember from reading books.

Ich bin 1980 geboren

I ceertainly have heard "Ich bin im Jahr 1980 geboren" but I think adding "im jahr" is not needed, but don't know if it counts as mistake.

BTW, I am not a native speaker at all, began learning being 18 years old and depending on the situation, German is my second language after spanish or third language after spanish and english.

 

[wsippel]

if I learned that correctly, nothing should go before a year. At least that's what I remember from reading books.

Ich bin 1980 geboren

I ceertainly have heard "Ich bin im Jahr 1980 geboren" but I think adding "im jahr" is not needed, but don't know if it counts as mistake.

BTW, I am not a native speaker at all, began learning being 18 years old and depending on the situation, German is my second language after spanish or third language after spanish and english.

It's not a mistake, adding "im Jahr" is perfectly fine. But it might sound awkward depending on the context (it's fine if used for emphasis for example). "in 1980" however would be wrong.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

but once you learn how to use the modal particles they are awesome, and they are a must to speak normally in German.

"mal"..is used in sooo many ways.

"sag mal, spinnst du?"
"da hast du dich mal geirrt"
"ich denke mal, du siehst scheisse aus"

hehehehe, see? you need to use "mal" in order to sound like normal people, otherwise is like German from the books.

EDIT: comd to think of it, not the best sentences to use as examples, but Mal is sure as hell used for everything.

Are only certain words modal particles? If so, what do you think are the most important ones to know?

 

[Bollocks]

This explains everything.

Spoiler

lulz

lol what's this, a funny German? That's a first!

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

Are only certain words modal particles? If so, what do you think are the most important ones to know?

doch and mal, forrr sure. it not only makes it more natural, but i can't imagine saying "schliess die Tür!" rather than "schliess mal die Tür" because without the einmal's they are basically commands rather than "hey can ya shut the door please?"

 

[cloudwalking]

i think, in the case of modal particles, it's almost as if no explanation at all is better than an explanation. i didn't even realize what they were called until they were brought up in this thread, and never really thought about it until now! i just picked up on them from hearing other peoples' conversations and somehow passively started to realize that they changed their meaning/the sentence's meaning depending on how and when they were used.

i especially love how they can be mixed with tone to create an even stronger effect -- for example, if something is said in an annoyed tone and a modal particle is thrown in with the specific intention of conveying annoyance, it's almost like it becomes compounded and the effect is doubled.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

doch and mal, forrr sure. it not only makes it more natural, but i can't imagine saying "schliess die Tür!" rather than "schliess mal die Tür" because without the einmal's they are basically commands rather than "hey can ya shut the door please?"

Bah, fuck doch. A girl at my college was trying to explain it and she just couldn't. Such a pain in the ass. I only asked her because I hear her always use it so I was like what does it mean and it sort of varies.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

Bah, fuck doch. A girl at my college was trying to explain it and she just couldn't. Such a pain in the ass. I only asked her because I hear her always use it so I was like what does it mean and it sort of varies.

"komm doch mit uns" "why don't you come with?"

"trink doch etwas Kaffee!" "why not come drink some coffee?"

doch is also a positive response to a negative question; "musst du nicht gehen?" "doch, muss ich" don't you have to go? yeah, i gotta go. if you didn't have to go, then it'd just be... nein. lol.

the other uses of doch escape me, too complicated but those are simple enough.



Here in Konstanz though people say Ne/Nie alloooooot more than nein, in fact i can't say i've heard it but a few times. Is this normal, De-Gaf?

 

[Gala]

Here in Konstanz though people say Ne/Nie alloooooot more than nein, in fact i can't say i've heard it but a few times. Is this normal, De-Gaf?

Never heard Nie for Nein. But Ne is pretty common for Nein in spoken language.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Ya, I've never "nie" used either but ne/nee is used constantly. I'm not sure if I've actually heard anyone say "nein", all I ever hear is ne/nee.

 

[Milchjon]

Here in Konstanz though people say Ne/Nie alloooooot more than nein, in fact i can't say i've heard it but a few times. Is this normal, De-Gaf?

"Nie" just means "never", pretty sure it's not used as "No" anywhere. "Nee" is pretty common, though.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Is "Nee" a just a regional thing or is it pretty much used everywhere?

 

[Gala]

Is "Nee" a just a regional thing or is it pretty much used everywhere?

In the area I come from "Nee" is just a stretched "Ne" and is used random instead of "Nein/Ne" or strengthen the "Ne".

Oh...that sentence sounds so wrong.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

In the area I come from "Nee" is just a stretched "Ne" and is used random instead of "Nein/Ne" or strengthen the "Ne".

Oh...that sentence sounds so wrong.

But is using "Ne/Nee" instead of nein a regional thing or is it pretty much used everywhere?

And responding to your post a little more directly everyone where who writes "Ne/Nee" always does it with two e's for some reason. It's interesting that by you you only use one. I haven't received a text message/im message where it was ever spelled "Ne", I've only seen "Nee".

 

[snap0212]

But is using "Ne/Nee" instead of nein a regional thing or is it pretty much used everywhere?

And responding to your post a little more directly everyone where who writes "Ne/Nee" always does it with two e's for some reason. It's interesting that by you you only use one. I haven't received a text message/im message where it was ever spelled "Ne", I've only seen "Nee".

Well, I personally use "nee" on a daily basis. The amount of "e"s (when I say "ne") depends on the context. It's compareable to "no" and "no way". No would be "ne" and "no way" would be "nee" (sometimes "nä", especially in Franconia). I'd say it's a regional thing, though. Everyone will know what you mean but not that many people use the word.

 

[close to the edge]

Is "Nee" a just a regional thing or is it pretty much used everywhere?

In Germany, probably almost everywhere (maybe except for some hardcore Bavarians). Austria and Switzerland, not so much. "Nah" is more common here.

 

[cloudwalking]

Is "Nee" a just a regional thing or is it pretty much used everywhere?

it's not used in swiss german, but i've heard swiss people say it when talking in high german to someone. i personally never say it.

 

[Acrylamid]

Ich finde ja, dass man die Bedeutung der Modalpartikel im Deutschen gar nicht zu sehr betonen kann. Die deutsche Sprache lebt halt von solchen Wendungen, die schon auch alle ihre eigene Funktion besitzen. Das sollte man vielleicht nicht vergessen. Das ist wohl mittlerweile eh klar, aber auch ich wollte es mal gesagt haben. Und irgendwie kann man in jedem Satz irgendwie das Wort "irgendwie" dutzend Mal benutzen, ohne dass es irgendwie so wirkt, als wäre es irgendwie falsch platziert.




Aber eins darf man fei nicht vergessen: die wichtigste Modalpartikel steht nicht im Duden.

 

[jarosh]

Und irgendwie kann man in jedem Satz irgendwie das Wort "irgendwie" dutzend Mal benutzen, ohne dass es irgendwie so wirkt, als wäre es irgendwie falsch platziert.

no different in english with "somehow".

Das sollte man vielleicht nicht vergessen.

not a modal particle in this particular case.

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

Aber eins darf man fei nicht vergessen: die wichtigste Modalpartikel steht nicht im Duden.

Holy crap Mann, "fei" würde ich niemals in 'nem geschriebenen Satz verwenden.

Ist "fei" nicht eins der Wörter, das mehr in den süddeutschen Regionen (hauptsächlich schwäbischer Bereich) verwendet wird? Und selbst dann nur mehr als eine Art Wort, das mehr die Überzeugung der Meinung hervorheben soll, im Sinne von "Diese Leute sind fei voll nicht schön!" (oder im Dialekt: "Dia Leit senn fei voll edda schee!").

Zumindest würde ich (als Schwabe) "fei" kaum anders verwenden.
Und ich habs bisher auch nie außerhalb der Baden-Württembergischen Region gehört. Selbst meine Ex-Freundin (aus Kassel) war extrem verwirrt von dem Wort

it's not used in swiss german, but i've heard swiss people say it when talking in high german to someone. i personally never say it.

I've got several friends from Switzerland and all of them use "Nee" as a shortened form of "Nein". The English equivalent would be something like "Nah", "Nay" or "Nuh-uh". Not shorter than "No" but the meaning's the same.

 

[dondarm]

Holy crap Mann, "fei" würde ich niemals in 'nem geschriebenen Satz verwenden.

Ich würde holy crap Mann niemals in nem geschriebenen Satz verwenden.
Edit: For the love of god, don't google holy shit-man.

 

[jarosh]

I've got several friends from Switzerland and all of them use "Nee" as a shortened form of "Nein". The English equivalent would be something like "Nah", "Nay" or "Nuh-uh". Not shorter than "No" but the meaning's the same.

i'm sorry, but no swiss person says "nee". never. ever.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

fuck, fuck, fuck, dieser Morgen ist ganz schleckt in Hinblick auf meines unterrichts... ich fühle mich wie ich habe NICHTS gelernt. Sogar gerade mühe ich mich gross nur das zu schreiben, fuck, fuck. Auf Memrise kennte ich nur ungefähr 40% meiner Worte, hollly fuck. Mühe ich mich sehr nur mit Leute zu sprechen, auf Deutsch zu denken, fuck, fuck.

es ist wie mein Gedächtnis versucht alles aus zu schieben, was passiert?? Hören Deutsche Welle Radio ist urplötzlich unzusammenhängend

Hat irgendjemand solche eine Problem mit Englisch oder andere Fremdsprache, das sie gelernt haben, oder noch lernen? Als die 'weigt' der Sprache schwer weigt, und alles erscheint unmöglich damit.

:'(

 

[cloudwalking]

so today i'll go and extend my ausländerausweis for what i sincerely hope will be the last time... in june of next year i'll be able to apply for swiss citizenship. i'm glad that i bothered to learn german because it's part of the citizenship test

 

[Vicetrailia]

You know what I like about Germany?

- Clean-cut people but they can be crazy as hell.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

so today i'll go and extend my ausländerausweis for what i sincerely hope will be the last time... in june of next year i'll be able to apply for swiss citizenship. i'm glad that i bothered to learn german because it's part of the citizenship test

was ist dein Heimatstaatsangehörigkeit?

I want to have a permanent Visa for Germany so, so, so badly. I'm probably going to do my masters studies here at the least.

 

[iidesuyo]

- Clean-cut people but they can be crazy as hell.

Was meinst du? Verstehe ich irgendwie nicht so ganz...

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

Was meinst du? Verstehe ich irgendwie nicht so ganz...

er meinte, dass die Deutsche erscheint oberflächlich normal, glatt rasiert und professional, aber viele eigentlich ganz verrückt sind. or better in English, they can really be spontaneous and act very crazy when not in alltags.

das ist was ich gelernt habe, sowieso. Z.b die deutsche Studenten sind ganz heftig zu lernen, sind ernst Studenten, aber wenn es die 'partyzeit' ist, werden sie verrückt.

deutsche Festen/Parties sind sehhhhhhr besser als amerikanische, keinen Zweifel

 

[maeh2k]

Holy crap Mann, "fei" würde ich niemals in 'nem geschriebenen Satz verwenden.

Ist "fei" nicht eins der Wörter, das mehr in den süddeutschen Regionen (hauptsächlich schwäbischer Bereich) verwendet wird?

Ich würde das Wort nicht mal in nem gesprochenen Satz verwenden
Wird auch in Bayern benutzt, aber ich bin kein Fan des bayerischen Dialekts...

"Nein", "Nee", "Nah",...

I tend to use "Nein", "Nee", or "Nö".

 

[A Human Becoming]

Schau mich an, ich kann behaupten, Deutsch zu sprechen!

 

[Gala]

er meinte, dass die Deutsche erscheint oberflächlich normal, glatt rasiert und professional, aber viele eigentlich ganz verrückt sind. or better in English, they can really be spontaneous and act very crazy when not in alltags.

das ist was ich gelernt habe, sowieso. Z.b die deutsche Studenten sind ganz heftig zu lernen, sind ernst Studenten, aber wenn es die 'partyzeit' ist, werden sie verrückt.

deutsche Festen/Parties sind sehhhhhhr besser als amerikanische, keinen Zweifel

Viele Deutsche sind am Anfang nicht so offen zu Fremden, wie z.B. Amerikaner oder andere Ausländer. Sie werden offener, wenn sie jemanden besser kennen.

Das ist vielleicht sehr typisch deutsch, oder?

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

können jemand mir erklären, die verschiedene nutzungen des Wortes "gleich"

I understand it means literally 'the same' , and when to use it in regards to "derselbe oder gleiche" , but in alltags its used so often that i can't really pinpoint a use to it. it's even used as a parting word! "bis gleich!"

is it like modal participles not in use , but just in it's wide use, as a filler type of word? It's one of the things i've noticed that's used often like mal and doch and are necessary to sound natural.

and generally speaking how receptive are Germans to want to have native English speakers help them out? I'm more than happy to proofread and help some Germans English to be more natural and eloquent, it'd be mutual helping anyway. there's plenty enough ads at the Uni, and many even are requesting natives, but i was just wondering what Deutsch-Gaf thought about it. Yalls english is pretty damn good and it had to get there somehow! lol. i just don't want to be presumptious about the demand

 

[wolfmat]

"gleich"

It is a temporal word ("Ich komme gleich" => "I'm about to come lol").
It is a comparative word ("Zwei plus zwei ist nicht gleich fünf")
Sometimes it's being used as a comparative word, but that's not immediately obvious ("Mir ist es ganz gleich" => "I don't care either way")
That's all I got.