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[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Haha, Ich habe neue Wörter gelernt!

 

[Gustav]

Leider ist es einfach so, dass speziell an unseren Hauptschulen der Ausländeranteil hoch ist

"Leider ist es einfach so, dass ein Großteil der Ausländer die Hauptschule besuchen (und nicht eine bessere Bildung bekommen)".

Sind zwei sehr unterschiedliche Aussagen.

 

[Fritz]

Haha, Ich habe neue Wörter gelernt!

<3

 

[systemfehler]

I tried to post something to this discussion. I really tried a few times but it always ends up sounding like I am biased some will probably say racist. Basicly a lot would be easier if such issues could be discussed in real life.

And the percentage of "foreigners" in lower rated schools boils down to 3 points:

- Language barrier - understanding maths is often not easy, not speaking the language doesn't help in that case and your grades get down even though you are better
- Hauptschule is used by the government for problem kids (no matter from where they come)
- it is normal that not everyone can go to a Gymnasium and sometimes it is even a good thing

 

[Wrayfield]

Mein erstes Mal in Frankfurt, keine 5 Minuten in der Stadt, da schreit einer über den Zebrastreifen:"Hey du Arschloch, wo ist mein Geld ? Ich mach dich kalt !".

Mainz>Frankfurt

Solche Erlebnisse hake ich meist unter "Frankfurt geht aus" ab. Hab mich mittlerweile dran gewöhnt .

 

[DerZuhälter]

Sind zwei sehr unterschiedliche Aussagen.

Fine if you want to be a dick about it.

Just to make it clear again. This isn't about racism nor is it about "Stammtisch-Niveau". If you want to play the "Political Correctness White-Knight" card and close your eyes from the apparent drawbacks, that aren't about respecting other peoples culture, but instead are only about horrible educational deficits.

If you talk german the way Haftbefehl raps, I will not understand you, it's as simple as that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve1RgXPWTdk#t=2m05s

I probably understand about 60-65% of his rap and that's although I listen to rap and even know a lot of the slang.
And considering a lot of 3rd generation migrants don't know their "second" Muttersprache/first language, say arabic, turkish, kurdish or whatever (when I say "know" I mean speak read&write), then we are suddenly talking about a growing demographic that doesn't even know one language. What's my grief with this?
Language is the first cultural asset anyone of us inherits. A lot of us hated reading Goethe, Schiller or Lessing in school and compared to how we speak today it should be quite obvious that a lot of culture is already lost.
You might consider this schoolyard language "new culture". Well I don't. And I fear especially for third generation migrants that if they lose their roots to the most primal cultural good, their parents language, and don't properly learn the language used here we are going to be faced with not only an illiterate but also a generation devoid of culture.

 

[ekim]

 

[Gustav]

Fine if you want to be a dick about it.

Just to make it clear again. This isn't about racism nor is it about "Stammtisch-Niveau". If you want to play the "Political Correctness White-Knight" card and close your eyes from the apparent drawbacks, that aren't about respecting other peoples culture, but instead are only about horrible educational deficits.

If you talk german the way Haftbefehl raps, I will not understand you, it's as simple as that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve1RgXPWTdk#t=2m05s

I probably understand about 60-65% of his rap and that's although I listen to rap and even know a lot of the slang.
And considering a lot of 3rd generation migrants don't know their "second" Muttersprache/first language, say arabic, turkish, kurdish or whatever (when I say "know" I mean speak read&write), then we are suddenly talking about a growing demographic that doesn't even know one language. What's my grief with this?
Language is the first cultural asset anyone of us inherits. A lot of us hated reading Goethe, Schiller or Lessing in school and compared to how we speak today it should be quite obvious that a lot of culture is already lost.
You might consider this schoolyard language "new culture". Well I don't. And I fear especially for third generation migrants that if they lose their roots to the most primal cultural good, their parents language, and don't properly learn the language used here we are going to be faced with not only an illiterate but also a generation devoid of culture.

I love Haftbefehl. My favorite record this year so far.

 

[gamma]

I love Haftbefehl. My favorite record this year so far.

Toller Diskussionsstil.

 

[Nibel]

Haftbefehl Offenbach, Banküberfall im Turban

Haft ist Macht, Leute - auch wenn wir ihn nicht verstehen können

 

[Gustav]

Toller Diskussionsstil.

Please understand that I am not inclined to discuss a position (I will leave Germany if everyone starts talking like that) that is normally reserved for 60+ year old semi-racists. The "Ich bin selber Kanake" rhetoric is nice, but not much different from "Ich hab ja nichts gegen Türken, aber..."

 

[Wrayfield]

http://www.abload.de/img/842899_10151291233583w0x9h.jpg[IMG]

:D[/QUOTE]

"Kein Ausländer, und doch ein Fremder!" :)

Edit: I hate it when people spray shit with spelling mistakes, btw.

 

[DerZuhälter]

Please understand that I am not inclined to discuss a position (I will leave Germany if everyone starts talking like that) that is normally reserved for 60+ year old semi-racists. The "Ich bin selber Kanake" rhetoric is nice, but not much different from "Ich hab ja nichts gegen Türken, aber..."

Thanks for describing me as a german version of Clayton Bigsby. And yes it's my favorite record too, but only in it's remix version.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Fine if you want to be a dick about it.

Just to make it clear again. This isn't about racism nor is it about "Stammtisch-Niveau". If you want to play the "Political Correctness White-Knight" card and close your eyes from the apparent drawbacks, that aren't about respecting other peoples culture, but instead are only about horrible educational deficits.

If you talk german the way Haftbefehl raps, I will not understand you, it's as simple as that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve1RgXPWTdk#t=2m05s

I probably understand about 60-65% of his rap and that's although I listen to rap and even know a lot of the slang.
And considering a lot of 3rd generation migrants don't know their "second" Muttersprache/first language, say arabic, turkish, kurdish or whatever (when I say "know" I mean speak read&write), then we are suddenly talking about a growing demographic that doesn't even know one language. What's my grief with this?
Language is the first cultural asset anyone of us inherits. A lot of us hated reading Goethe, Schiller or Lessing in school and compared to how we speak today it should be quite obvious that a lot of culture is already lost.
You might consider this schoolyard language "new culture". Well I don't. And I fear especially for third generation migrants that if they lose their roots to the most primal cultural good, their parents language, and don't properly learn the language used here we are going to be faced with not only an illiterate but also a generation devoid of culture.

Do most people speak that way though? I'm not familiar enough with german to know if people do. I mean even with music in the US there's plenty of times when it's not even rap that if someone talks to me like that I wouldn't be able to understand them that well. I think it's also proven pretty well with how much people don't know the actual lyrics to pretty famous songs because of how the musician says the words. I'm not sure if it's the same in germany though.

 

[trab pu kcip]

Please understand that I am not inclined to discuss a position (I will leave Germany if everyone starts talking like that) that is normally reserved for 60+ year old semi-racists. The "Ich bin selber Kanake" rhetoric is nice, but not much different from "Ich hab ja nichts gegen Türken, aber..."

<3

 

[systemfehler]

Do most people speak that way though? I'm not familiar enough with german to know if people do. I mean even with music in the US there's plenty of times when it's not even rap that if someone talks to me like that I wouldn't be able to understand them that well. I think it's also proven pretty well with how much people don't know the actual lyrics to pretty famous songs because of how the musician says the words. I'm not sure if it's the same in germany though.

I watched the Youtube video and mostly understood different car brands. Music is a art from and important for the cultural identity of everybody and should not be changed. However if I hear people talking like that in real life and abusing the german language until it will be a lost part of our heritage I might go ballistic.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I watched the Youtube video and mostly understood different car brands. Music is a art from and important for the cultural identity of everybody and should not be changed. However if I hear people talking like that in real life and abusing the german language until it will be a lost part of our heritage I might go ballistic.

Eh, I think it could change somewhat and depends on certain areas but I can't see it happening. People thought the same thing with rap music and other slang and it may evolve overtime but vast majority of people still don't talk that way. It can influence but to actually make it change to that is rather difficult I think.

Edit: Pretty sure this link won't work since youtube seems to block everything from youtube but listen to this and tell me what the refrain says.

He says pull up to the scene with my ??? missing.

Spoiler

He says pull up to the scene with my ceiling missing but I think the only way most native english speakers would even get it is contextually since they're all driving convertibles but that's about it.

There's better examples but I that's the most recent one I remember. I think rap in general has so much slang and stuff in it and they change they way they talk to sound a certain way that it's sort of expected. It will always seem like a bastardization.

 

[wrowa]

Please understand that I am not inclined to discuss a position (I will leave Germany if everyone starts talking like that) that is normally reserved for 60+ year old semi-racists. The "Ich bin selber Kanake" rhetoric is nice, but not much different from "Ich hab ja nichts gegen Türken, aber..."

I think you are taking these things way too serious. I doubt that he was entirely serious when he said that -- it's not as much racist as it is a hyperbolic way to express your disapproval of something. The "I don't want to live on this planet anymore" meme is pretty much the same thing...

Das ist aber oft auch Einstellungssache aber in dem Fall verständlich - bei Menschen die eigentlich keinen Migrationshintergrund haben, finde ich es doch ziemlich lächerlich vielleicht sogar ein wenig beängstigend wenn die Sprache anderer im eigenen Land angenommen wird.

The phrase "Your own land" is pretty much devoid of a meaning. After all, languages are vivid and not a rigid structure: Taking this into account, it's only logical that you are going to adopt the language of your living environment.

When people in your living environment are primarly speaking in "Kanaksprak", you are going to adopt this way of speaking over time -- and you will regard it as completely correct to speak that way. It's a mistake to think that you can force a language to follow certain rules over an extended period of time. Languages don't give a shit what the "Duden" thinks.

 

[systemfehler]

The phrase "Your own land" is pretty much devoid of a meaning. After all, languages are vivid and not a rigid structure: Taking this into account, it's only logical that you are going to adopt the language of your living environment.

When people in your living environment are primarly speaking in "Kanaksprak", you are going to adopt this way of speaking over time -- and you will regard it as completely correct to speak that way. It's a mistake to think that you can force a language to follow certain rules over an extended period of time. Languages don't give a shit what the "Duden" thinks.

I don't mind if someone adapts to a different language because of his friends or the part of city he lives in. I just find it sad that often people lose the ability to speak the original language - no matter if that was german, turkish, english, ...

The problem is as long as there is a official language you should be able to read, write and speak it so that others can understand you. There will be always small mistakes but honestly if you can't properly articulate yourself you will have a bad time in our current society and the only person to be blamed is you.

I will never lose my alemannic dialect and its strange special cases (basicly we use "Heil" as a greeting but not that "Heil") but I still speak "proper" german aswell.

 

[TCRS]

hab mir gestern dieses 5,0 pils dosenbier gekauft. not bad.

 

[Nibel]

Und das sag ich als Kanake.

Yeah, bin nicht der Einzige!

Haftbefehl bzw. diese ganze Azzlack-Bewegung ist doch auch nur ein Trend, der bald wieder abflauen wird, genauso wie das ganze Aggro-Zeug von 2003+

..wobei mir das viel mehr zusagte als was die Kids heute so hören

 

[trab pu kcip]

hab mir gestern dieses 5,0 pils dosenbier gekauft. not bad.

musst du nicht lernen?

 

[Wrayfield]

I don't mind if someone adapts to a different language because of his friends or the part of city he lives in. I just find it sad that often people lose the ability to speak the original language - no matter if that was german, turkish, english, ...

The problem is as long as there is a official language you should be able to read, write and speak it so that others can understand you. There will be always small mistakes but honestly if you can't properly articulate yourself you will have a bad time in our current society and the only person to be blamed is you.

I will never lose my alemannic dialect and its strange special cases (basicly we use "Heil" as a greeting but not that "Heil") but I still speak "proper" german aswell.

I don't think that, apart from maybe some extreme cases, they lose the ability to articulate themselves. Will they speak with a dialect? Perhaps, but they can still converse in German if they so choose. That a, say, German Turk will be frowned upon when not speaking "perfect" German, that is speaking with a slight Turkish lilt, is another story. It's a kind of bigotry that our society is very susceptible to. We have a problem with casual borderline-racist bigotry in Germany.

To take it to a different level and speak something only "your buddies" understand, I think of it more of a way to display a certain frustration with a society that does not give the same chances to all people. That, to me anyway, is the origin of it. It took on its own dynamic, has become a cultural phenomenon. Ultimately, I think it's more a choice they make. Some take it too far maybe, but I can totally relate to where that comes from. And I generally dislike the sound of it, but I understand its necessity.

In any way I wholly disagree with the notion that only that person is to blame. Partly to blame, sure, but the society sure takes a chunk of that shit pie as well.
You know how they say, at 30 years (or 40, if you like) you get the face you deserve? I think the same applies to societies. If a society treats people in a certain way, it creates dynamics which then manifest themselves in many different ways, language is one of them. My 2 pfenning, anyhow.

 

[systemfehler]

I don't think that, apart from maybe some extreme cases, they lose the ability to articulate themselves. Will they speak with a dialect? Perhaps, but they can still converse in German if they so choose. That a, say, German Turk will be frowned upon when not speaking "perfect" German, that is speaking with a slight Turkish lilt, is another story. It's a kind of bigotry that our society is very susceptible to. We have a problem with casual borderline-racist bigotry in Germany.

To take it to a different level and speak something only "your buddies" understand, I think of it more of a way to display a certain frustration with a society that does not give the same chances to all people. That, to me anyway, is the origin of it. It took on its own dynamic, has become a cultural phenomenon. Ultimately, I think it's more a choice they make. Some take it too far maybe, but I can totally relate to where that comes from. And I generally dislike the sound of it, but I understand its necessity.

In any way I wholly disagree with the notion that only that person is to blame. Partly to blame, sure, but the society sure takes a chunk of that shit pie as well.
You know how they say, at 30 years (or 40, if you like) you get the face you deserve? I think the same applies to societies. If a society treats people in a certain way, it creates dynamics which then manifest themselves in many different ways, language is one of them. My 2 pfenning, anyhow.

Well maybe I am just overreacting but in Austria a third of all children/teenagers have a serious problem with reading - which affects writing and speaking aswell according to the PISA test. Austria is ranked the third worst when it comes to reading and especially in a digital world those skills are lost quite fast.

So if I hear someone talking in a slang I can't assume this is just for "fun" but rather the only way those kids can communicate and from there on it is a downward spiral. Newspapers are slowly dying out, everyone is a "journalist" on the internet, ... and so the real language gets lost until it is a mixture of everything and nothing.

 

[Wrayfield]

Well maybe I am just overreacting but in Austria a third of all children/teenagers have a serious problem with reading - which affects writing and speaking aswell according to the PISA test. Austria is ranked the third worst when it comes to reading and especially in a digital world those skills are lost quite fast.

So if I hear someone talking in a slang I can't assume this is just for "fun" but rather the only way those kids can communicate and from there on it is a downward spiral. Newspapers are slowly dying out, everyone is a "journalist" on the internet, ... and so the real language gets lost until it is a mixture of everything and nothing.

I know, it's hard. I look at my nephews and gee, it hurts. I'm a linguist, fuck, these kids now nothing these days... But then I think, just because I grew up like that doesn't mean they should. We do need to find better incentives for them to read and write though. These days, I'm happy if kids read Twilight so long as they read anything at all.

And don't get me started on internet "journos" .

 

[systemfehler]

I know, it's hard. I look at my nephews and gee, it hurts. I'm a linguist, fuck, these kids now nothing these days... But then I think, just because I grew up like that doesn't mean they should. We do need to find better incentives for them to read and write though. These days, I'm happy if kids read Twilight so long as they read anything at all.

And don't get me started on internet "journos" .

I am not even that old that is why I hope your 30 year is your face metaphor is true. That would be truly awesome a few months then I am set going all Dorian Gray and stuff

 

[DerZuhälter]

I don't think that, apart from maybe some extreme cases, they lose the ability to articulate themselves. Will they speak with a dialect? Perhaps, but they can still converse in German if they so choose. That a, say, German Turk will be frowned upon when not speaking "perfect" German, that is speaking with a slight Turkish lilt, is another story. It's a kind of bigotry that our society is very susceptible to. We have a problem with casual borderline-racist bigotry in Germany.

Call me a bigot, call me a racist. If I hear this "turkish lilt" coming from the backrows of the bus behind me, talking loudly about banging hoes and slapping mothafukas, till I fucking boil and turn around to scream at them to shut the fuck up, it's not the turkish lilt that's bothering me. It's the content about what they talk and how they behave.
But if the assumed Ali, Emre and Murat turn out to be Peter, Jörg und Frederick in the back row (believe me it happened more than once to me) ... well then I think the turkish lilt becomes just as much an issue to me as the content of their talk.
Is that racist? Was it racist to assume because of a turkish lilt that the people sitting behind me are probably turkish?
I honestly don't care that much because them speaking that way is a much bigger issue than my "hidden" bigotry/racism.

P.S.: Sorry to completely missuse your quote and train of thought.

P.P.S.: Will check back later, now it's football time first.

 

[TCRS]

musst du nicht lernen?

 

[trab pu kcip]

oooh tut mir leid sauf weiter!

 

[Gustav]

Ich muss es irgendwo loswerden, und da keiner im Skype online ist, müsst ihr leider dran glauben:

ALTER SCHWEDE, DAUERT DIE SIMS 3 INSTALLATION LANGE!!!!!!!!!!

Spoiler

sorry

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Ich muss es irgendwo loswerden, und da keiner im Skype online ist, müsst ihr leider dran glauben:

ALTER SCHWEDE, DAUERT DIE SIMS 3 INSTALLATION LANGE!!!!!!!!!!

Spoiler

sorry

sims 3 sucks.

 

[trab pu kcip]

Ich muss es irgendwo loswerden, und da keiner im Skype online ist, müsst ihr leider dran glauben:

ALTER SCHWEDE, DAUERT DIE SIMS 3 INSTALLATION LANGE!!!!!!!!!!

Spoiler

sorry

oh oh. sich sims installieren zu wollen ist stets ein schlechtes zeichen, ich
spreche aus erfahrung

 

[Gustav]

sims 3 sucks.

Don't say that. It's my favorite Sims game.

oh oh. sich sims installieren zu wollen ist stets ein schlechtes zeichen, ich
spreche aus erfahrung

Ich weiß. Ich mache mir große Sorgen um meine Produktivität und mein Sozialleben.

 

[vitacola]

German ads in a French stadium (or in general at international matches not taking place in Germany) just confuse me.

 

[trab pu kcip]

Don't say that. It's my favorite Sims game.





Ich weiß. Ich mache mir große Sorgen um meine Produktivität und mein Sozialleben.

you're selling the ladders, while your social life is still in the pool if you know what I mean.

 

[Gustav]

you'er selling the ladders, while your social life is still in the pool if you know what I mean.

I know exactly what you mean.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Don't say that. It's my favorite Sims game.





Ich weiß. Ich mache mir große Sorgen um meine Produktivität und mein Sozialleben.

Well, all the sims games suck so...

 

[moris]

I don't know if I should be asking here but here goes.

My friend just settled near Frankfurt and she is asking me to look up a good desktop computer for her. She's not looking for a build, just looking for a bundle set like the one they sell on Dell website.

She's going to be using Photoshop for basic video editing I think. Her budget is around 550€.

I went on Geizhals and the prices I see seem kind of high for a complete computer set. Or is it that expensive over there for a good computer?

Where should I be looking for good bundles? Do any of you have a good website to suggest apart from Amazon or Dell? Thanks.

 

[Fritz]

Call me a bigot, call me a racist. If I hear this "turkish lilt" coming from the backrows of the bus behind me, talking loudly about banging hoes and slapping mothafukas, till I fucking boil and turn around to scream at them to shut the fuck up, it's not the turkish lilt that's bothering me. It's the content about what they talk and how they behave.
But if the assumed Ali, Emre and Murat turn out to be Peter, Jörg und Frederick in the back row (believe me it happened more than once to me) ... well then I think the turkish lilt becomes just as much an issue to me as the content of their talk.
Is that racist? Was it racist to assume because of a turkish lilt that the people sitting behind me are probably turkish?
I honestly don't care that much because them speaking that way is a much bigger issue than my "hidden" bigotry/racism.

P.S.: Sorry to completely missuse your quote and train of thought.

P.P.S.: Will check back later, now it's football time first.

As long as it's just kind of a scene talk I don't care other than it get's annoying when kids try to front. And that's what they do when they talk about fucking extra loud in the back of the bus.

But it's just frustrating when you think that some people cannot switch because they then will not be able to express themselves and that will pretty much destroy their future possibilities. In that sense it's just kinda unfair when their german peers adopt the lingo cause it's cool. If anything they should help people with actual difficulties to articulate themselves. Easy to say though when your at a stage in life where you can clearly see that it will lead into desaster. Some friends of mine volunteered at a youth club in Kreuzberg just spending the afternoons with a bunch of kids. Simple stuff like this has an amazing effect on the kids because there is someone they can look up to that shows them how it's done. We basically have a role model crisis.

the game is good btw!

 

[RedSwirl]

Jesus. I am not going to get through this if I have to right click and translate every other word.

In Deutschland habe ich nur Deutsche und Amerikanner (und einer Mann aus der Türkei) gesehen.

 

[sphinx]

Jesus. I am not going to get through this if I have to right click and translate every other word.

In Deutschland habe ich nur Deutsche und Amerikanner (und einer Mann von Turkei) gesehen.

what do you mean with right-click and translate? you wrote that in english and used an internet translator for every word?

if you allow, "Mann von Turkei" = "Mann aus der Türkei"

 

[RedSwirl]

what do you mean with right-click and translate? you wrote that in english and used an internet translator for every word?

if you allow, "Mann von Turkei" = "Mann aus der Türkei"

No, I had to use a Chrome extension to translate every other word in the last three pages I read. I wrote that bottom sentence without any assistance.

Edit: This is gonna get hard using an American keyboard which doesn't have umlauts.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

No, I had to use a Chrome extension to translate every other word in the last three pages I read. I wrote that bottom sentence without any assistance.

Edit: This is gonna get hard using an American keyboard which doesn't have umlauts.

That's one thing is nice about macs is that every accent is incredibly easy to do.

 

[vitacola]

Just use "ue", "ae" and "oe" or copy and paste

 

[Dre]

Edit: This is gonna get hard using an American keyboard which doesn't have umlauts.

You know what I would do? Get a post-it and write down every Umlaut as ASCII code. Then stick it to your display/laptop/whatever and use those whenever you want to write in German, there aren't that many, so one post-it should be enough.

small sharp s - ß
alt + 225

small Umlaut ä
alt + 132

small Umlaut ö
alt + 148

small Umlaut ü
alt + 129

capital Umlaut Ä
alt + 142

capital Umlaut Ö
alt + 153

capital Umlaut Ü
alt + 154

 

[RedSwirl]

You know what I would do? Get a post-it and write down every Umlaut as ASCII code. Then stick it to your display/laptop/whatever and use those whenever you want to write in German, there aren't that many, so one post-it should be enough.

small sharp s - ß
alt + 225

small Umlaut ä
alt + 132

small Umlaut ö
alt + 148

small Umlaut ü
alt + 129

capital Umlaut Ä
alt + 142

capital Umlaut Ö
alt + 153

capital Umlaut Ü
alt + 154

Do you type those numbers sequentially?

 

[vitacola]

You need to type the numbers on your numpad.

 

[Dre]

Do you type those numbers sequentially?

Hold down the ALT key, type in the numbers on the numpad and then let ALT go.

 

[TCRS]

The lil Kim thread just reminded me of DJ Tomekk. Anyone remember that guy? Ich lebe für Hip Hop was pretty cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EzC-ZNZkpE

and the track with Lil Kim:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCCI1Vdtg9w

whatever happended to him?

 

[Krelian]

I don't know if I should be asking here but here goes.

My friend just settled near Frankfurt and she is asking me to look up a good desktop computer for her. She's not looking for a build, just looking for a bundle set like the one they sell on Dell website.

She's going to be using Photoshop for basic video editing I think. Her budget is around 550€.

I went on Geizhals and the prices I see seem kind of high for a complete computer set. Or is it that expensive over there for a good computer?

Where should I be looking for good bundles? Do any of you have a good website to suggest apart from Amazon or Dell? Thanks.

Why does it have to be a bundle? Can't she just buy a desktop and mouse, keyboard and monitor separately? That would be much easier.

Anyway, some sites I know of that could be worth looking at: cyberport.de, alternate.de, mindfactory.de