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[Flame_AC]

It depends on he who shoots.

If he chooses between me and Gorlak and hits scum, then I think town should focus on one of the PRs. You or RF specifically.

If he chooses between the PRs and hits scum, then town should focus on Gorlak or myself. Gorlak specifically.

Do you think I'm scum Kawl?

 

[Kawl_USC]

No both of those answers are wrong. Try again.

And I honestly don't know who it is between you and Gorlak. He reads less scummy for the whole game but he's been quiet enough where I think it's possible he's been playing a skillful scum game.

You have been frantic, and all over the place with mainly wrong ideas and retreading discussion that had already been had. I can't tell if you are town groping poorly in the dark, or scum pretending to be hapless town while putting forth sub optimal plays at every turn. I'm leaning towards the latter.

 

[Flame_AC]

No both of those answers are wrong. Try again.

And I honestly don't know who it is between you and Gorlak. He reads less scummy for the whole game but he's been quiet enough where I think it's possible he's been playing a skillful scum game.

You have been frantic, and all over the place with mainly wrong ideas and retreading discussion that had already been had. I can't tell if you are town groping poorly in the dark, or scum pretending to be hapless town while putting forth sub optimal plays at every turn. I'm leaning towards the latter.

And why are those answers wrong?

My play throughout the game has been to serve town's best interests.

I'm frantic because town has been wrong literally the entire game following others. If even one of my ideas is right, that's better than town has done so far.

 

[Kawl_USC]

And why are those answers wrong?

My play throughout the game has been to serve town's best interests.

I'm frantic because town has been wrong literally the entire game following others. If even one of my ideas is right, that's better than town has done so far.

I'm not going to spell it out for you. Think about the math and what it means if I'm telling the truth about my role or what it means if I'm lying at this junction.

And well your play may have come from a place of trying to help town, the jury is still out on whether it has been or not. (Spoiler that applies to almost everyone which is why we are in a pickle as far as determining these final scum).

And try not to set the bar too high there.

 

[Flame_AC]

I'm not going to spell it out for you. Think about the math and what it means if I'm telling the truth about my role or what it means if I'm lying at this junction.

And well your play may have come from a place of trying to help town, the jury is still out on whether it has been or not. (Spoiler that applies to almost everyone which is why we are in a pickle as far as determining these final scum).

And try not to set the bar too high there.

If you're not lying and Stanley misses it doesn't matter.

If you're not lying and Stanley hits, then we'll have the rest of the day to decide where to go from there. If we miss the second lynch, then we lose.

Stanley, whenever you're around, could you say when you're going to shoot?

It is a correct statement to say that town has consistently been wrong throughout the whole game. Not even once have we been right.

 

[Kawl_USC]

If you're not lying and Stanley misses it doesn't matter.

If you're not lying and Stanley hits, then we'll have the rest of the day to decide where to go from there. If we miss the second lynch, then we lose.

Stanley, whenever you're around, could you say when you're going to shoot?

It is a correct statement to say that town has consistently been wrong throughout the whole game. Not even once have we been right.

And that statement would be where you are wrong.

And we've been right about a number of things, just not who scum is.

 

[Flame_AC]

And that statement would be where you are wrong.

And we've been right about a number of things, just not who scum is.

If Stanley hits scum, we go to 4v1, 3 is majority, 2 to lynch you. We have the rest of the day, probably 24ish hours, to discuss what to do. Scum won't be able to hammer you.

Nothing else matters when we're wrong about the point of the game.

 

[flatearthpandas]

It would be helpful if we could all write down our ideal shot target so Stanley can take the shot when he's ready.

Shoot royal. Lynch kawl

Or

Shoot Flame. Lynch Kawl

Nothing personal, kawl, but i think that gets us to d6 for a proper standoff.

 

[Flame_AC]

It would be helpful if we could all write down our ideal shot target so Stanley can take the shot when he's ready.

Shoot royal. Lynch kawl

Or

Shoot Flame. Lynch Kawl

Nothing personal, kawl, but i think that gets us to d6 for a proper standoff.

So you think Gorlak is more likely to be town than myself/RF/Kawl?

 

[Kawl_USC]

It would be helpful if we could all write down our ideal shot target so Stanley can take the shot when he's ready.

Shoot royal. Lynch kawl

Or

Shoot Flame. Lynch Kawl

Nothing personal, kawl, but i think that gets us to d6 for a proper standoff.

FEP this is literally the conversation I'm having with Flame to get him to realize this point. So absolutely no offense taken. You are my second strongest town read after Stanley.

Flame, you can discuss to your hearts content but at the end of today, lynching me forces the scum kill to remove a person to make it an honest 2v1 instead of a 3v1. The correct answer was that town always lynches me.

 

[Royal_Flush]

Kawl, I think I understand where you're coming from. But you are losing us the game here (if you're Town). This whole "We have to lynch Kawl so we have 2v1 on D6" thing might be true, but only if I flip Scum and therefore is academic at best. You either are tunneling as fuck right now, or you're Scum. At first I thought Scum-you wouldn't get anything out of urging Town to lynch you, but there might be a few possibilities:
- you have some PR we're not aware of. Which is, thinking of it, not that unlikely if you indeed are Scum. It could be a lynchbomb for example.
- seeing that Flame would be the likely lynch target, you're banking on your real partner (presumably Gorlak, less likely FEP) to win the game

Both of these are real possibilities and it puts me in a horrible position should we both be alive at day end. Because if you're Scum I'd give away the game by bananaing you, but if you're Town I'd do so by not doing it.

If we don't do the kills simultaniously, we're banking on the shoot target to be correct or Kawl being Scum (surprisingly that would be an upside for Town then because Scum can't hammer then even after a missed shot). This is also the case for simultanious kills and Kawl being one of the targets. If we hit both Flame and Gorlak (I'm quite confident one of them is Scum and I do think our chances that both are Scum are significantly higher than zero) we (well, I) have more to go for in determining weather or not Kawl is Scum.

So, Kawl, viewing it from the point "Kawl is Town, we'll see from there" the option with statistically slightly better outcome might be me/Kawl, but from my POV with the knowledge that I'm Town, I think the best way is the Flame/Gorlak combo at the same time.

 

[Kawl_USC]

If we miss the shot the game is already over. It is that simple.

 

[Royal_Flush]

If we miss the shot the game is already over. It is that simple.

Even if I'm not Scum?

 

[Flame_AC]

So, Kawl, viewing it from the point "Kawl is Town, we'll see from there" the option with statistically slightly better outcome might be me/Kawl, but from my POV with the knowledge that I'm Town, I think the best way is the Flame/Gorlak combo at the same time.

At this point we're going into circles until we get the first flip.

From POV with the knowledge I'm, I think the best way is some mixture of RF/Kawl/Gorlak

 

[Flame_AC]

Even if I'm not Scum?

If we miss the shot, it's over. Simple as that.

 

[Royal_Flush]

If we miss the shot, it's over. Simple as that.

Why? What's the difference between shot and lynch if we do it at the same time?

 

[Flame_AC]

Why? What's the difference between shot and lynch if we do it at the same time?

If we miss shot and lynch at same time, missing with both. Then it's 2v2 going into the night, game over.

If we miss shot but hit on lynch, Then it's 3v1 going into the night, if Kawl is one of the ones alive. Then scum just has to place their vote and win.

If we miss shot before lynch, it becomes 3v2, 2 votes to lynch Kawl, game over.

Doing them at the same time limits our likelihood of hitting scum with our lynch.

 

[Royal_Flush]

If we miss shot and lynch at same time, missing with both. Then it's 2v2 going into the night, game over.

If we miss shot but hit on lynch, Then it's 3v1 going into the night, if Kawl is one of the ones alive. Then scum just has to place their vote and win.

If we miss shot before lynch, it becomes 3v2, 2 votes to lynch Kawl, game over.

Doing them at the same time limits our likelihood of hitting scum with our lynch.

But if we came to the conclusion that Kawl really is Town i can give him the banana?

 

[Kawl_USC]

But if we came to the conclusion that Kawl really is Town i can give him the banana?

That depends on me trusting you and your ability to thumb your nose at a lynch to be town.

Which I no longer do to a percentage that I'm willing to risk the game on.

 

[Flame_AC]

But if we came to the conclusion that Kawl really is Town i can give him the banana?

We also theorize the existence of a roleblocker. We also aren't for sure the banana will behave as expected.

 

[Royal_Flush]

We also theorize the existence of a roleblocker. We also aren't for sure the banana will behave as expected.

And who is the roleblocker supposed to be? Gorlak? Then Kawl has to be Scum too because he said Gorlak was Ordinary. Kawl? No problem there, he isn't Towen Hated then. FEP? How would he know Kawl visited Gorlak then? You? Me? Stanley? There is no room for a roleblocker anymore. All scenarios that involve Kawl being Town have all the roles on the table by now. And if you don't think Kawl is Town you shouldn't be following his advice.

 

[Flame_AC]

And who is the roleblocker supposed to be? Gorlak? Then Kawl has to be Scum too because he said Gorlak was Ordinary. Kawl? No problem there, he isn't Towen Hated then. FEP? How would he know Kawl visited Gorlak then? You? Me? Stanley? There is no room for a roleblocker anymore. All scenarios that involve Kawl being Town have all the roles on the table by now. And if you don't think Kawl is Town you shouldn't be following his advice.

We know there is a roleblocker as evidenced by FEP not receiving a result when he tried to track someone last night. Assumedly he was going to look at Kawl or you, but got blocked.

Also I'm not at all convinced or even leaning towards town for Kawl, it's you, him and Gorlak as potentential scum.

 

[Kawl_USC]

No point hiding it since I doubt we see another day phase. I am a two shot watcher. I first moved n2 and saw Kawl on Gorlak. I used my second shot n3 on Sophia and got no result. Pretty safe to assume nothing happened to Sophia that night so if there is a scum roleblocker I can't confirm any evidence of it.

Flame. Please. Try to pay attention. The game is on the line.

 

[Flame_AC]

Flame. Please. Try to pay attention. The game is on the line.

Woopsies. Forgot he went back on his earlier statements.

 

[Flame_AC]

Theoretticaly, if RF was killed during the night, would he get to give his item before death, or would Kawl/whoever not get it.

 

[Royal_Flush]

Woopsies. Forgot he went back on his earlier statements.

He said he didn't have any results and that he doesn't know if he was roleblocked or not. I don't see any indication here that he was roleblocked.

Theoretticaly, if RF was killed during the night, would he get to give his item before death, or would Kawl/whoever not get it.

Typically kills are the last actions to take place so everything else would still happen.

 

[Flame_AC]

He said he didn't have any results and that he doesn't know if he was roleblocked or not. I don't see any indication here that he was roleblocked.


Typically kills are the last actions to take place so everything else would still happen.

Before he made clear he expended his uses, we had to come up with a reason he got no results. Roleblock was the logical assumption, no longer relevant now though.


Is that a risk you're willing to take? Right now, would you give the banana to Kawl? Or just not give it away?

 

[flatearthpandas]

Before he made clear he expended his uses, we had to come up with a reason he got no results. Roleblock was the logical assumption, no longer relevant now though.

According to kawl, his action went through to confirm stanley. I got the banana. What results would have been expected?

Anyway, how do we feel about getting some more preferred shot target's out there? We do need to take the shot for sure if we have any chance, unless we lynch scum. With the shot unused, stanley likely doesn't survive the night.

 

[Gorlak]

Let's get to the bottom of this.

We either shoot Flame and go after Flush/Kawl afterwards, or if we can't find a majority for that plan (and seeing no one can say they trust either me or Flame, that's likely) consider this:

I'm town. Flame is scum. That also means between Kawl and Flush is another scum member. Therefore we have to shoot Royal_Flush and lynch Kawl (or the other way around, that doesn't matter). We hit one scum member and go into lylo discussion tomorrow with 2 town and 1 scum. No PR shenanigans possible.

The only reason you'd be against this plan is if you suspect a scum team consisting of me and Flame, which is very unlikely considering all of the town PRs in this game.

 

[flatearthpandas]

Flame, why didn't you vote yesterday?

 

[flatearthpandas]

Kawl, why did you investigate gorlak n2 and not sophia after she escaped a lynch?

 

[Flame_AC]

Flame, why didn't you vote yesterday?

No need to vote. The path of the day had been set, I made sure to express my opinion though.

 

[Sorian]

Vote Count

Gorlak (1)
Flame_AC

4 votes are needed for majority.

Day 5 ends in:

 

[Flame_AC]

Yay me I guess. Only voter as we approach 16 hrs to go.

Stanley, go ahead and lose us the game if you want.

 

[flatearthpandas]

I have to say, I'm okay with the shot coming whenever. Need some time to discuss results since we seem to agree we don't need to stack votes.

I think it's more likely that both Gorlak and Flame are scum than both Kawl and Royal. Odds are good there is one in each group. Although he didn't breadcrumb for shit, Kawl's reactions to Gorlak and Kawl seem genuine. At the very least, I genuinely believe that Kawl is a role cop and investigated Gorlak and found him ordinary. So if Kawl is scum, Gorlak is town. If Kawl is town it could be either. I don't think Kawl is a roleblocker so i don't know what else he would be doing on Gorlak n2 so i believe he is town.

So basically where i started still. Either Royal, Gorlak, or Flame needs shot. If you think there's scum in the PR's shoot Royal fo sho. If not, either ordinary is fine. We have not seen any evidence of an additional scum pr so we really have to decide that one of our pr's and their powers (all true in my mind) are scum.

 

[flatearthpandas]

Reactions to gorlak and flame, i mean. He told me he didn't think gorlak was the banana guy agree investigating him. He turned on sophia once flame claimed normal, saying he believed flame and not sophia. She was, of course, but he supposedly had just checked flame. Can't confirm that though.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

yeah, honestly i also trust kawl, and right now im very undecided on gorlak, but i feel it could very well be eiether Flame or Royal.
and we are running a little low on time.

so, ultimatum time. i will be shooting before i go to sleep tonight, so thats in like 5 hours or so.

who does everyone think i should shoot, Flame, Royal, or Gorlak?

 

[Royal_Flush]

Is that a risk you're willing to take? Right now, would you give the banana to Kawl? Or just not give it away?

That would heavily depend on the flips.

yeah, honestly i also trust kawl, and right now im very undecided on gorlak, but i feel it could very well be eiether Flame or Royal.
and we are running a little low on time.

so, ultimatum time. i will be shooting before i go to sleep tonight, so thats in like 5 hours or so.

who does everyone think i should shoot, Flame, Royal, or Gorlak?

I still say we go with plan A: Shoot one of Gorlak/Flame and lynch the other one at the same time. I will do the first step:

vote: Gorlak

(that means you would shoot Flame. If you see any reason to do it the other way round I'd be fine with that, too)

 

[Gorlak]

who does everyone think i should shoot, Flame, Royal, or Gorlak?

I'm okay with either Flame or Flush as I said earlier.

Shoot Flame and we lynch Flush. If Kawl (and not Flush) is the last scum, we can lynch him tomorrow without any shenanigans.

From your viewpoint the safer approach is to shoot Flush and we lynch Kawl. We'll have lylo coming tomorrow and need to lynch Flame then, but fortunately again without PR hassle. In this case it doesn't matter if you shoot Flush or Kawl first, that depends on whose reaction you want to see after the flip.

 

[Kawl_USC]

I still think it's Royal you've got to shoot. If that's a hit, lynch me.

 

[flatearthpandas]

I'm okay with either Flame or Flush as I said earlier.

Shoot Flame and we lynch Flush. If Kawl (and not Flush) is the last scum, we can lynch him tomorrow without any shenanigans.

From your viewpoint the safer approach is to shoot Flush and we lynch Kawl. We'll have lylo coming tomorrow and need to lynch Flame then, but fortunately again without PR hassle. In this case it doesn't matter if you shoot Flush or Kawl first, that depends on whose reaction you want to see after the flip.

Flush has a banana. I wouldn't risk trying to lynch him.

 

[Kawl_USC]

Bananas are almost certainly a one day lynch proofing. Not lasting until it eats a lynch. Just my thoughts.

 

[Kawl_USC]

yeah, honestly i also trust kawl, and right now im very undecided on gorlak, but i feel it could very well be eiether Flame or Royal.
and we are running a little low on time.

so, ultimatum time. i will be shooting before i go to sleep tonight, so thats in like 5 hours or so.

who does everyone think i should shoot, Flame, Royal, or Gorlak?

Stan the man? You got me on pins and needles here!

 

[Gorlak]

I agree with Kawl here, banana making you 1 time lynchproof for the whole game? Seems too influential. Anyway since the order doesn't matter, go for Flush and lynch Kawl if you want to be safe.

If there is an active effect on Flush, that would make it hard to shoot Flame (or me ftr)? Flush surviving would stall it at 4-1, nk 3-1 and we wouldn't be closer to the answer of the question if Flush or Kawl is scum. Lynch Flush either win or 2-1, nk 1-1, so with Kawl's claimed hated role he could be lynched in that case? If he is hated for that matter. So possible but risky.
Stanley if you believe the banana to have a lasting effect beyond one day definitely shoot Flush.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

welp, im pretty sure know who im going to vote for, but in the interest of not fucking everything up, how do we want to go about this? do we want to stack votes for the lynch beforehand? or wait for the flip and then decide?

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

also i dont think either of the mods i could pm are on right now,
but turns out i have no work tomorrow, so sleep can wait for another few hours, and hopefully one will show up before then.

 

[flatearthpandas]

I agree as well, but why take chances? After a bit of soul searching, I think Gorlak is town. I believe his actions day 2 were to avoid a tie, not to cause one, and it would have been my ass, not his, if my actions resulted in one without him changing a vote so scum Gorlak would have had more reason to tell me to fuck off than to buckle my

 

[flatearthpandas]

Buckle full stop.

Wait for the flip before voting imo. Would like the votes off of gorlak actually so he doesn't get hammered right after the shot

 

[Kawl_USC]

Yay me I guess. Only voter as we approach 16 hrs to go.

Stanley, go ahead and lose us the game if you want.

And flame this is the stupidest shit.

We are extremely close to scum being able to hammer off of one erroneous vote. That's why people are voting willy nilly. It's not that people aren't playing the game.

If you are town hold your vote for now.

 

[Kawl_USC]

If we hit scum with the shot, everyone say who you think the final scum is, hammer me so you see I've been completely honest and can trust what I say in terms of roles and reads, another person gets night killed that you can at least trust their thoughts to not be purposefully wrong (but of course they could be mistaken) and then go to true lylo.

I don't see any logical argument for not doing what I've described above.