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[chaostrophy]

I'm a bit unclear on this...but did they say that any phone with ICS can effectively be a stock Android phone without rooting, because the OS will allow uninstall of anything? If so, the Nexus designation isn't as much of a selling point and I might wait for more choice in ICS devices.

 

[erpg]

Been posted yet?

Why Ice Cream Sandwich Might Make Things Worse

Google is pitching Ice Cream Sandwich as the end to the Gingerbread/Honeycomb, phone/tablet split. But Ice Cream Sandwich could make the split worse if updates to existing devices go as slowly as Android updates always have. That means we'll now have three major Android strains for developers to juggle. Without additional guidelines and tools for filtering apps in the Market, downloading apps on Android—especially if you're looking for apps for the latest devices—will be very frustrating.

Google's Android honcho Andy Rubin says that updates will start to happen within "weeks," according to Slashgear, but I don't trust him. Google right now has zero credibility on the topic of updates, as they've failed to deliver updates to consumers in a timely fashion for every version of Android so far. Expect Google to blame OEMs and carriers if the updates don't happen, but that's just buck-passing.

Rubin seems not to understand the problem here. Quoted on ThisIsMyNext.com, he says there shouldn't be tablet-specific apps, and that "the Twitter phone app runs fine on a tablet." No, it doesn't. The Twitter phone app is dog-ugly on a tablet, with a vast amount of useless white space, because the UI designers assumed smaller screens. When I review Android tablets and try to download apps, a solid percentage of those apps end up with spaced-out UIs or with the whole app appearing in a tiny black box in the middle of the screen.

Earlier this year, Google and its OEMs formed a consortium to pledge to deliver prompt updates, but absolutely zero concrete work has come out of that group. Every single U.S. Windows Phone will update to Mango within weeks. Two-year-old iPhones can get iOS 5. But owners of Android phones and tablets just a few months old have no clue when, or whether their gadgets will get Ice Cream Sandwich (or for that matter, sometimes still even Gingerbread.)

I have to agree with the praise Microsoft for 7.5's rollout. 3.3.4 has been out for the HTC Glacier in the US since August, but hasn't reached Canada. Minor update, and HTC still doesn't bother. And the phone is now just reaching it's first year, but support has probably completely ended for the device.

 

[Lexxon]

I'm a bit unclear on this...but did they say that any phone with ICS can effectively be a stock Android phone without rooting, because the OS will allow uninstall of anything? If so, the Nexus designation isn't as much of a selling point and I might wait for more choice in ICS devices.

They have the ability to disable bloatware (hopefully including System apps since that's where the bloatware resides), but that does NOT mean phones with skins will allow you to. Froyo had built-in Wireless and USB tethering and those were gutted in favor of trackable apps by the carriers. SIP (internet calling) was pretty much gutted from every Gingerbread phone I've seen.

If VZW and the rest really want to be dicks, they could disable the mobile data cap stuff, since they somewhat WANT you to go over, but I don't see them going that far. The bloatware I could see them bypassing though, since they probably have contracts with the bloatware folks (Blockbuster, that damn golf game, etc.).

Saying that, anything that gets disabled should be able to be re-enabled through rooting and custom ROMs, if the devs support your device well.

I'm a bit torn about getting the Nexus or waiting for something like the Galaxy S III. Technically my upgrade isn't up since I got forced into the Thunderbolt, but I can steal my brother's and give him my phone for free. However, paying almost $600 in phones in one year ON CONTRACT makes me a sad panda.

 

[kehs]

So what time does the conference start?

 

[Zeppu]

12 hours ago.

 

[Menelaus]

So what time does the conference start?

Yesterday, but you'd never know that with our lazy OP.

 

[kehs]

12 hours ago.

......wat!?

 

[andycapps]

Hey guys what's going on in here? Got some sleep and back in here. Looks like no carriers for US announced yet. Please be on Sprint (even though I know it's probably not happening right out of the gate).

 

[D4Danger]

Google have their own Arial

 

[gcubed]

Been posted yet?

Why Ice Cream Sandwich Might Make Things Worse





I have to agree with the praise Microsoft for 7.5's rollout. 3.3.4 has been out for the HTC Glacier in the US since August, but hasn't reached Canada. Minor update, and HTC still doesn't bother. And the phone is now just reaching it's first year, but support has probably completely ended for the device.

but in the phone comparison thread PCMag was android fanboys?

ICS apps can work on gingerbread and honeycomb. There isn't enough tablet devices around where developers will have to concentrate on 3 versions, and again, an ICS app will work fine on honeycomb anyway. The developers can make 1 version, using the "pane" layout that google has provided, and it works across devices.

The second section boils down to the same thing above. One app can work across all devices and screen sizes if its built that way. So, a phone app can definitely work on a tablet, as its going to look different when it see's that its on a tablet.

edit... fragments

Thats what he means when he says a phone app can work for a tablet

 

[Menelaus]

Hey guys what's going on in here? Got some sleep and back in here. Looks like no carriers for US announced yet. Please be on Sprint (even though I know it's probably not happening right out of the gate).

Verizon internals are already leaked saying the 10th of November.

 

[rabhw]

Google have their own Arial

Bit of a stretch. Looking at them 10 feet away they look similar. Anyone familiar with typography could point out numerous differences in the letterforms and all of this changes the mood a font evokes etc. etc.

You could put hundreds upon hundreds of normal-weight sans-serif fonts beside each other and claim they are all Arial and to a lamen or someone viewing at a distance, they'd probably agree they are the same font.

 

[kehs]

but in the phone comparison thread PCMag was android fanboys?

ICS apps can work on gingerbread and honeycomb. There isn't enough tablet devices around where developers will have to concentrate on 3 versions, and again, an ICS app will work fine on honeycomb anyway. The developers can make 1 version, using the "pane" layout that google has provided, and it works across devices.

The second section boils down to the same thing above. One app can work across all devices and screen sizes if its built that way. So, a phone app can definitely work on a tablet, as its going to look different when it see's that its on a tablet.

edit... fragments

Thats what he means when he says a phone app can work for a tablet

New version?

Fragmentation.... Updates.... Left behind.... Doom... Gloom

Rinse, repeat.

 

[andycapps]

Verizon internals are already leaked saying the 10th of November.

Well obviously it's coming to Verizon, but we don't know when it's coming to other carriers. Seems like a given that it will come to at least one of the others, but the question is when. It's not worth me leaving Sprint, I'd just get another new ICS phone when that time comes, but I would love to have the Galaxy Nexus.

 

[gcubed]

New version?

Fragmentation.... Updates.... Left behind.... Doom... Gloom

Rinse, repeat.

lets burn it to the ground. Gingerbread was a great UI

 

[kehs]

lets burn it to the ground. Gingerbread was a great UI

Apparently it was the pinnacle of ui design in hindsight.

 

[andycapps]

Apparently it was the pinnacle of ui design in hindsight.

I don't see why Google would ever put out a new OS honestly.

Why is your avatar a blue dot?

 

[Menelaus]

For anyone else who doesn't want to read this whole thread, here's Engadget's link list for the announcement.

 

[The Bookerman]

Been posted yet?

Why Ice Cream Sandwich Might Make Things Worse





I have to agree with the praise Microsoft for 7.5's rollout. 3.3.4 has been out for the HTC Glacier in the US since August, but hasn't reached Canada. Minor update, and HTC still doesn't bother. And the phone is now just reaching it's first year, but support has probably completely ended for the device.

isn't that website pro IOS?

 

[jiien]

Thats what he means when he says a phone app can work for a tablet

The 4chan app 'Chant' is a really good example of this. Looks and works beautifully on phone and tablet.

 

[Pctx]

This Matias Duarte guy has the nerve to mock Apple's and Microsoft's design? Simply amazing the nerve on him.

Mock? I'd say improve upon. I don't get the Duarte hate other than my wife calling him a tool for that suit he wore last night. Honestly I feel like Android 4.0 is the first vision of Android Duarte can call his own. Honeycomb was a technical nightmare from the stand point that they didn't have any design or UI guy owning what Android was looking like. Duarte (I believe) was even quoting saying that HC was a nightmare because it was simply a stepping stone for 4.0.

What we have now is a good blend of Honeycomb and Gingerbread in a mobile smartphone ecosystem. The stuff I've read on the SDK for 4.0 is that an app made for Android (at this point) should scale from Smartphone to Tablet and back and forth without issue. Having the design of those apps work the same on all interfaces is what 4.0 is all about. If anything, Duarte gave a nod to WebOS, WP7 and iOS by offering his interpretation of how he thinks those tasks should be done.

 

[Zeppu]

The world according to PCMag:

Don't change anything ever, so no one ever gets left behind. Don't try to unify the previous versions because previous versions will still exist anyway. Also, Google is solely responsible for all phones which have Android.

 

[erpg]

The world according to PCMag:

Don't change anything ever, so no one ever gets left behind. Don't try to unify the previous versions because previous versions will still exist anyway. Also, Google is solely responsible for all phones which have Android.

You should likely retake elementary reading if you really missed all the mentions of ecosystem control and OEM support agreements. Which they should have responsibility for but don't. Similar to the 15 minute app return policy leading to influx of developer refund emails while they still take a 30% cut for market app support.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Someone please explain to me why in the mother of all fucks, android still has that lag. I'm starting to think google has no idea at all how to fix it. I mean they can't not be noticing it right?

 

[OriginalThinking]

Someone please explain to me why in the mother of all fucks, android still has that lag. I'm starting to think google has no idea at all how to fix it. I mean they can't not be noticing it right?

In almost every video I've watched there is very little lag. When opening the camera it takes a second beyond that things seems to be fast and fluid. There have been occasional hiccups in some vids, force closing apps and crashes but this is not final software. In fact this build is apparently several weeks old. Lets wait for a finalised product before making lag complaints ;-)

 

[andycapps]

Someone please explain to me why in the mother of all fucks, android still has that lag. I'm starting to think google has no idea at all how to fix it. I mean they can't not be noticing it right?

What video are you seeing the lag in?

Some have mentioned some lag with the home, back, etc buttons but they also mentioned that they tried a different phone with an updated build and there was no lag. The demo units people are using now are using non finalized builds.

 

[nib95]

While I can't talk for the Galaxy Nexus since I haven't seen it in person, the screen for the Galaxy S2's screen is much better than the Vita. At least from what I've seen (I played Little Big Planet vita and wasn't really too impressed with the screen)

The GS2's screen is impressive in detail and black levels, but the colours are too over burnt. Literally a good degree too much saturation.

Could you elaborate on what you thought was better about the GS2's screen? If it's 'the colours seemed to pop more'. I'm sure they did, but for the wrong reasons.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

In almost every video I've watched there is very little lag. When opening the camera it takes a second beyond that things seems to be fast and fluid. There have been occasional hiccups in some vids, force closing apps and crashes but this is not final software. In fact this build is apparently several weeks old. Lets wait for a finalised product before making lag complaints ;-)

thisismynexy mentions it in their preview:

The subtle, pervasive lag that has characterized the Android UI since it inception is still there, which is not a heartening thing to hear when you’re talking about a super-powered dual-core device like the Galaxy Nexus.

I want to believe it's an old build or something that's causing it but I doubt it. They go on to say it could be that, but I don't have that much hope.

 

[OriginalThinking]

thisismynexy mentions it in their preview:



I want to believe it's an old build or something that's causing it but I doubt it. They go on to say it could be that, but I don't have that much hope.

Yeah, it's pretty much only them so far. Watch this TechCrunch video. 15 minutes long, probably the most in depth ICS preview yet.

http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/19/in-depth-hands-on-video-galaxy-nexus-and-ice-cream-sandwich-android-4-0/

Ice Cream Sandwich is pretty. It’s polished. It’s animated, and shiny, and jam-friggin’-packed with gradients and alpha translucencies.

What it’s not — at least not yet — is flawless. There was a crash here and there, and a tense moment or two when a slider just… wouldn’t.. work. Google was quick to note that the build I was seeing was a relatively old one — but even if it weren’t, they still have weeks to stomp out the lingering bugs for the initial release, and months before anyone really expects Ice Cream Sandwich to trickle out onto a wide array of devices. They’ll fix it up right.

 

[kehs]

Someone please explain to me why in the mother of all fucks, android still has that lag. I'm starting to think google has no idea at all how to fix it. I mean they can't not be noticing it right?

Did not enough people pay attention to you last night.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Yeah, it's pretty much only them so far. Watch this TechCrunch video. 15 minutes long, probably the most in depth ICS preview yet.

http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/19/in-...h-android-4-0/

I hope so. They also mentioned that their phone could have had a lot of stuff running or something. I'm back to semi-optimistic but not fully.

Did not enough people pay attention to you last night.

If I did mention it then my bad because I didn't remember mentioning it, but I'm glad you did for this ACE observation.

 

[Zeppu]

You should likely retake elementary reading if you really missed all the mentions of ecosystem control and OEM support agreements. Which they should have responsibility for but don't. Similar to the 15 minute app return policy leading to influx of developer refund emails while they still take a 30% cut for market app support.

I didn't read the whole article because it bored me. From what I read though, they're arguing that they shouldn't be releasing updates because they don't update existing hardware. The only difference is that, no, Google isn't responsible for updating any hardware except those which are Google branded (which sucks, because HTC, Sony, Etc, abandon their hardware pretty quickly). Nexuses so far have gotten their updates immediately. Also, considering this is all open source and allows all OEMs to skin and so whatever the fuck they want with their code (some of which are completely forking and creating their own ecosystems which compete with Google themselves) I can't see how Google is responsible.

As for apps, yes, as it is right now 2.3 apps look like shit on 3.0. And that is why ICS helps. With ICS you cannot create an app for a small screen or an app for a big screen. You create one single app which works perfectly well on all screen sizes. I may need to retake elementary reading and whatever you're saying but at least my opinion is being read by a handful of people on a forum which are already bickering about an underwhelming event. Writers on magazines which are read by thousands of people should stop spouting shit.

 

[pr0cs]

ICS looks really good, seems like they're trying to unify all their ideas on UI design, which is needed because Android really is 'the wild west' regarding getting a consistent user experience.

The new phone looks okay, yeah the specs might not be as good as some of the newish phones coming out. The issue there is that those other phones will not be updated as often or for as long as the new phone. Hell the Nexus S will have ICS long before the SGS2 will even though the SGS2 kills the NexusS for specs. If you care about having the latest and greatest OS (and yes, the software is the most important part of your phone) then the new Galaxy Nexus really is the best phone right now.

The presentation itself was beyond terrible. They had so many good things to show and as usual it felt like nerds showing off new toys instead of showing what makes Android great. Google *really* needs to have a more charismatic front-man. If Google is going to copy anything from Apple it's that they need to have someone who knows how to talk, to get people interested in their products and knows how to demo and get people excited about their products. Don't get me wrong. I think bringing Matias Duarte into Google was a great idea but he's not the face of Android, none of the people demoing last night got people excited about the products.

 

[gcubed]

ICS looks really good, seems like they're trying to unify all their ideas on UI design, which is needed because Android really is 'the wild west' regarding getting a consistent user experience.

The new phone looks okay, yeah the specs might not be as good as some of the newish phones coming out. The issue there is that those other phones will not be updated as often or for as long as the new phone. Hell the Nexus S will have ICS long before the SGS2 will even though the SGS2 kills the NexusS for specs. If you care about having the latest and greatest OS (and yes, the software is the most important part of your phone) then the new Galaxy Nexus really is the best phone right now.

The presentation itself was beyond terrible. They had so many good things to show and as usual it felt like nerds showing off new toys instead of showing what makes Android great. Google *really* needs to have a more charismatic front-man. If Google is going to copy anything from Apple it's that they need to have someone who knows how to talk, to get people interested in their products and knows how to demo and get people excited about their products. Don't get me wrong. I think bringing Matias Duarte into Google was a great idea but he's not the face of Android, none of the people demoing last night got people excited about the products.

the presentation was worse, it looked constrained and rushed and they didn't look exactly excited to be there. Their I/O presentations are much better. Didn't look like their ideal location or audience to be talking OS.

 

[Zapages]

The GS2's screen is impressive in detail and black levels, but the colours are too over burnt. Literally a good degree too much saturation.

Could you elaborate on what you thought was better about the GS2's screen? If it's 'the colours seemed to pop more'. I'm sure they did, but for the wrong reasons.

what's funny is that my friends think GS2 has so great colors that they seem like are like 3D -= popping 3D according to my friends > on the GS2 < Yeah you know how it is. >_)

 

[gcubed]

what's funny is that my friends think GS2 has so great colors that they seem like are like 3D -= popping 3D according to my friends > on the GS2 < Yeah you know how it is. >_)

you should have seen the freakout when Google adjusted the colors on the Nexus S to actually represent real colors.

 

[OriginalThinking]

the presentation was worse, it looked constrained and rushed and they didn't look exactly excited to be there. Their I/O presentations are much better. Didn't look like their ideal location or audience to be talking OS.

Two words. Vic Gundotra. He's no longer part of mobile though so it's unlikely he'll be involved in future Android presentations. He was amazing at Google i/o in 2010. The Samsung parts were worse though. They are always insanely corporate.

 

[nib95]

what's funny is that my friends think GS2 has so great colors that they seem like are like 3D -= popping 3D according to my friends > on the GS2 < Yeah you know how it is. >_)

It's the reason why TV manufacturers often sell sets with the default setting as "Dynamic" or "Vibrant" which to someone who has his Pioneer ISF calibrated like me screams "Horribly obtuse colours and disgusting contrast settings". The GS2 does indeed have a gorgeous screen, but they need to tone down the colour temp and strength just a tad. As is I just hate the fact that I know I'm not seeing anything remotely accurately.

 

[andycapps]

Two words. Vic Gundotra. He's no longer part of mobile though so it's unlikely he'll be involved in future Android presentations. He was amazing at Google i/o in 2010. The Samsung parts were worse though. They are always insanely corporate.

Agreed.

Though I think Matias Duarte is very passionate, he wasn't as good as Vic. I'm very glad Duarte is there now though and that he's really pushing unification and for people to actually like the Android software, and not just tolerate it.

 

[Gwanatu T]

I have to agree with the praise Microsoft for 7.5's rollout. 3.3.4 has been out for the HTC Glacier in the US since August, but hasn't reached Canada. Minor update, and HTC still doesn't bother. And the phone is now just reaching it's first year, but support has probably completely ended for the device.

Google could do better with Android updates, there is no question, but this fake issue with fragmentation is ridiculous. Products have a life, like everything else, and support gets ended for some sooner than others. I'd love to see Android become more like iOS and WP7 in the way of general updates to all devices, but I think the biggest problem is that manufacturers put their own skins on the OS, and that alone creates a pile of work for them that they shouldn't have. Regardless though, if they had enough resources dedicated to these things they wouldn't have a problem. I'm sorry but if a team of 2-3 guys can pump out custom ROM updates every few weeks to keep up with the latest revisions, the manufacturers can easily do the same. I'm running 2.3.7 on my G2; something it wouldn't likely see from HTC any time soon, even though they have the best track record of updating their phones.

Regardless though, the fragmentation argument is one I believe to be mostly perpetuated by fanboys and haters alike out there that have to come up with something to whine about. You want the newest software and support? Buy the newest hardware. I didn't see anyone making a stink in the tech "news media" about Apple not including Siri on all iOS platforms that get the iOS5 update, because you know this is strictly a software regulation and nothing that's bound by hardware.

thisismynext mentions it in their preview:

I want to believe it's an old build or something that's causing it but I doubt it. They go on to say it could be that, but I don't have that much hope.

This is something that has always annoyed me too, and I think it's caused by the way Android handles memory use, at least I notice that when hardly anything is running on my phone this lag is either little or non-existent. It is possible that they've fixed it in ICS, but you never know.

 

[Ken Masters]

should be funny to see the slow rollout of 4.0, in typical android fashion

 

[Vyse The Legend]

thisismynexy mentions it in their preview:



I want to believe it's an old build or something that's causing it but I doubt it. They go on to say it could be that, but I don't have that much hope.

Engadget said their test unit was 4.0.1. It's possible their build was an older one. I've seen little-to-no mentions of lag in the current crop of previews.

 

[The Friendly Monster]

should be funny to see the slow rollout of 4.0, in typical android fashion

why?

 

[rabhw]

For anyone looking for some of the lag that people are talking about that seems ever-present in android:

http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/19/in...axy-nexus-and-ice-cream-sandwich-android-4-0/

Throughout this video there are a few occasions where the phone shits the bed a little, but the most obvious was starting at 13:50 near the end, when he opens the app drawer and then when he goes to close it, the phone chugs pretty hard and the icons are stuck on the screen for a second (in their giant, zoom-in state). For a second it looked like he launched "Car Mode" or something, then I realized what it actually was heh.

As others have noted it's an old build, so I pray things like this are fixed. I really really do

 

[Ocho]

Very nice phone.

However, and if ICS comes to currently available phones, how will ICS scale on phones with lower rez than 720? Will it look terribly tiny? Is 720 the new minimum for ICS? Will Samsung update my GS2?

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

For anyone looking for some of the lag that people are talking about that seems ever-present in android:

http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/19/in-...h-android-4-0/

Throughout this video there are a few occasions where the phone shits the bed a little, but the most obvious was starting at 13:50 near the end, when he opens the app drawer and then when he goes to close it, the phone chugs pretty hard and the icons are stuck on the screen for a second (in their giant, zoom-in state).

As others have noted it's an old build, so I pray things like this are fixed. I really really do

and that's on a phone much better than my nexus S. Even if it's just ever so slightly there, that's pretty unacceptable at this point in time. Even the idiots at RIM seemed to not have this problem on their new hardware accelerated OS.

 

[Zozz]

Really guys, why are you comparing the Nexus to the GS3? This is just bound to happen, you people are too set on specs that you forget the beauty of the Nexus line. It really is the one definitive phone that defines Android in this trench of madness. The rich OS and a great phone body; this phone will no doubt be a Verizon exclusive here in America because of their marketing power. Google and Samsung know this and we should as well. You have the already famous Galaxy name in conjunction with the Nexus brand coming under one brand, Google.

People are going to be exposed to the pure Google experience like never before. They're is going to be this popular "official" standard that many will get accustomed to. We're going to see on Android a strong pressured shift on OEMs and developers to recreate a better UI skins and apps experience for the consumer.

I totally agree with Andy Rubin: "I don’t think there should be apps specific to a tablet" You just have to create a huge overall standard for anyone that works on Android to rest upon. Personally, I'm very satisfied about the device and the OS. Good time ahead for the Android line.

 

[jobber]

I don't really use bookmarks anymore.

It's all about saved passwords

Firefox does all that stuff already

 

[The Friendly Monster]

Very nice phone.

However, and if ICS comes to currently available phone, how will ICS scale with phones with lower rez than 720? Will it look terribly tiny? Is 720 the new minimum for ICS? Will Samsung update my GS2?

I'm interested in this too.
I'll try ICS on a smaller resolution emulated device once I've downloaded the SDK.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I'm interested in this too.
I'll try ICS on a smaller resolution emulated device once I've downloaded the SDK.

also what happens with the 4 buttons? on the Nexus S they are invisible until the phone wakes up, will they make it stay invisible and only use the 3 on screen buttons? Will the 3 on screen buttons not be there and the 4 bottom buttons used instead? Will both sets of buttons be there?