Sure in the sense that the first 3 are top tier fantasy books, AFFC is good and ADWD is very good. Also, AFFC is hurt by covering the most boring characters in the series.
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Game of Thrones is bad. Like, really bad. Here's why. (Spoilers)
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Sure in the sense that the first 3 are top tier fantasy books, AFFC is good and ADWD is very good. Also, AFFC is hurt by covering the most boring characters in the series.
Vincent Alexander
Member
I have a love-hate relationship with Game of Thrones. I was looking forward to seeing a good bashing of Game of Thrones in here as I've never been able to articulate my thoughts well on the negative aspects. But for a thread where you say you aren't a book purist, you focus on how the characters were in the books way too much in comparison. And a lot of your points you don't finish. You simply describe how something is in the show, as if that by itself means something to your point.
Ocarina_117
Banned
There are certainly problems with the show and comparing them to the books is going to let any reader* down. (*who read the books when GRRM was writing them because something as grand and epic as ASOIAF could never be made on TV). I think they adapted and changed some things for the worse as well OP but I think they did their best to make ASOIAF into a TV show (A medium the books were not designed for). A Game of Thrones has the same issue almost any TV show or Movie has when based on an amazing series of books - Reading and imagining what the author created in your own mind is ALWAYS going to be better than someone else's literal adaption into reality (Show or Movie)
Right because in S1 they stayed very true to the books in character and plot. As the show went on they began to stray away from that for various reason. I'm speculating that part of the reason for Cersei's change in characterization came from the actress.
Enosh
Member
other way around, peasants used to marry in their twenties, nobles married young, but the marriage usually wasn't consummated for a while
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_European_marriage_pattern
radios shipping overview
Member
I have a few fine points of disagreement with OP, but overall, OP is right.
D&D are hacks who are saved just often enough by good directors and great actors. Every single character created for the show is awful. Characters altered for the show have almost all come out worse. Seasons 4-6 have been directionless messes.
Bad Pussy, anybody?
Karl Fookin Tanner?
Intimidating Shirtless Ramsay?
20 Good Men?
D&D are hacks who are saved just often enough by good directors and great actors. Every single character created for the show is awful. Characters altered for the show have almost all come out worse. Seasons 4-6 have been directionless messes.
Bad Pussy, anybody?
Karl Fookin Tanner?
Intimidating Shirtless Ramsay?
20 Good Men?
ADWD is a slog that's only saved by Theon's chapters. The only reason I give the show any credit compared to the books is that the books had already dropped so precipitously in quality. Somehow S6 of the show presented a more coherent trajectory toward ending this massive pile of plot overreach.
Wind's Howling
Member
Your feeling is wrong.
I don't follow hype. I don't put up my opinion based on how other people judge it.
Game of Thrones won multiple awards. It is rated to be one of the best series ever released. You don't win stuff like that because it is 'bad'
There are different tastes but hating on Game of Thrones is just like hating on the Lord of The Rings movie franchise because it is different from the books.
Not everything written is portrayed just as great on the screen. Sometimes adjustments need to be made.
ADWD had some good moments but the way it ends just completely ruins the book. How are you going to cut the climax of a story that you've just spent almost a thousand pages working towards?
DeaconKnowledge
Member
This OP is the first i've ever read that made me want to read the books.
As for your assertion OP, reading it makes me think that we're missing out greatly. Why?
TV.
Let's use the Walking Dead as an example.
The response to those actions? Derision. How DARE they
Go into the corresponding Walking Dead thread and you'll see tons of posts from people saying they're going to drop the show because they're frankly outraged.
My point? Some subjects are too racy for broadcast, and even cable television. We're more likely to deal with grisly things in a movie because we've paid the price of admission. To be frank, I can't say I wouldn't be offended by the things you posted were omitted from the show, and I don't offend easily at all.
That said, just because you can display something on TV doesn't necessarily mean you should. I feel GoT is a great show even with those omissions. You do not agree, but hopefully you can at least appreciate why they did it that way.
As for your assertion OP, reading it makes me think that we're missing out greatly. Why?
TV.
Let's use the Walking Dead as an example.
This season started out with two grisly murders of beloved characters Abraham and Glenn.
The response to those actions? Derision. How DARE they
kill off these beloved characters, and with no reprisal on top of it?!
My point? Some subjects are too racy for broadcast, and even cable television. We're more likely to deal with grisly things in a movie because we've paid the price of admission. To be frank, I can't say I wouldn't be offended by the things you posted were omitted from the show, and I don't offend easily at all.
That said, just because you can display something on TV doesn't necessarily mean you should. I feel GoT is a great show even with those omissions. You do not agree, but hopefully you can at least appreciate why they did it that way.
Skyward Sheep
Banned
I think a lot of the story and characterisation has weakened as the seasons have went on, but I still mostly enjoy the show thanks to the acting, spectacle and set/costume designs.
What is there to rebut? Can a show not depict sexism, racism, or homophobia?
Are people allowed to like a show that depicts these things?
The show does feel homophobic. Loras does pretty much nothing but get arrested and tried for being gay. He's just a plot device.
In the book, Margaery's trial has nothing to do with her brother being gay. And instead of being a passive plot device awaiting trial, book Loras leads the charge on Dragonstone and gets incapacitated because he was desperate to free up the fleet sieging the island so that they could used against ironborn ships raiding Tyrell territory. From honor and bravery in the book, to having no qualities and doing nothing in the show for the past few seasons aside from 'is gay' (and then using that to make up an excuse for a trial)
In the book, Margaery's trial has nothing to do with her brother being gay. And instead of being a passive plot device awaiting trial, book Loras leads the charge on Dragonstone and gets incapacitated because he was desperate to free up the fleet sieging the island so that they could used against ironborn ships raiding Tyrell territory. From honor and bravery in the book, to having no qualities and doing nothing in the show for the past few seasons aside from 'is gay' (and then using that to make up an excuse for a trial)
It was impossible for the books to maintain the momentum and quality once GRRM decided to stretch the series to 7 books. I do agree that GRRM has a really tall task of trying to tie all the loose ends together. There is so much story to be told that I have serious doubts about his ability to deliver a satisfying ending.
I agree with the OP. First season is about as good as you could reasonably expect, but afterwards things go downhill fast. Second season is based on some of the best parts of the books, but on TV it's only mediocre. Some great action scenes though.
I could forgive a lot of things, but the showrunners are obviously hacks and stuff that was merely irritating at first just keeps getting worse. Gone is all the subtlety of the books and it's replaced with stupidity instead. It's just a trashy TV show now, I can totally understand people enjoying it, but it's no longer for me.
I could forgive a lot of things, but the showrunners are obviously hacks and stuff that was merely irritating at first just keeps getting worse. Gone is all the subtlety of the books and it's replaced with stupidity instead. It's just a trashy TV show now, I can totally understand people enjoying it, but it's no longer for me.
Chuckie
Member
Mmm the site I was reading said it was the other way around. However they don't provide a source so I think I tend to believe Wikipedia in this case.
Things are happening constantly, albeit at a pretty slow pace most of the time. Then there are the big events that are usually saved for episode 9. I don't know how you can say nothing happens when the show has gone through like
7
It isn't the fact that it depicts it that is problematic, it's how it depicts it and the hypocrisy of those depictions.
How does changing the actions and attitudes of a minor character make the show homophobic?
Please do tell, what is the "proper" way to depict something as awful as homophobia?
You have to assume that a lot of these characters timelines are not taking place at the same time. I guess that's the only way of suspending belief in how the show portrays things. However, some traveling no matter how hard you look at it is, ridiculous. Little Finger and Varys are the worst offenders.
I think that's the way I view the show in that it's a bunch of dumb shit happening but it's fun to watch. It doesn't have the depth that the books do but it's also more entertaining. Tradeoffs I suppose.
Littlefinger is a literal magician in the TV show.
Your move OP
Ros8105
Member
FinalStageBoss
Banned
Lmao No!
Yeah, it's popular. The show is on an extended break while it films its final seasons so the buzz has cooled for now. It will ramp up again once the season is a few months out from airing.
He's not only gay but is depicted as a talentless idiot who brings down his whole family. And the sequence of events are incredibly dumb.
Littlefingers man who appears to actually run the brothel somehow becomes the heir to High Gardens squire?
He lacks any sense of caution in spite of his sisters warning.
Is proven guilty because of a birthmark that easily could have been viewed outside of a sexual situation.
I dont like that a man would even be arrested for his crime as it deminishes the sexism of the whole trial and religion. Also Littlefingers gay patrons are murdered on the spot....wtf.
Sad fact is you are not wrong. I still consider Game of Thrones decent. However all the deeper nuances and subtexts of the books are completely gone at this point. I can understand them changing stuff after all if they did not this show would have to be atleast 20 seasons long to cover all the material but it feels like the spirit is missing completely. Some of the changes are so bad that they contradict everything laid out in the books. (Jaime) The whole thing feels so shallow at this point basically devolving into good vs evil the end. I dont want to be to quick and lay the blame completely on writers since honestly i feel like they probably had some strict guidelines from HBO to follow and Martin not finishing up the final two books has also left them somewhat stuck in a corner. The writing is on the wall at this point unfortunately since Game of Thrones has penetrated into main stream it was inevitable that things would get downgraded to the core.
Does that make the show homophobic or simply Loras a not interesting written character? I mean, the show only makes you feel empathy for Loras, not hate him.
Oppo
Member
You could have saved us a lot of time, OP, if you had just written "PEOPLE ARE MEAN IN THESE BOOKS IN WAYS I DISLIKE".
Even the teleporting bits, where you could have had a good point, falls flat since your examples are actually poor.
And despite all this you've obviously watched several seasons of it.
Reminds me of the folks who put 400 hours into Fallout and then declare that It Sucks.
It's supposed to be Tits & Dragons. It's trying to be Tits & Dragons. The redeeming quality is that it manages to push a cast of dozens forward, somehow, while remaining a nice pulpy ride, and NOT relying on hamfisted magic spells most of the time. It's a dumb yarn, for sure, but that doesn't mean it's bad. Point is, it has entertained countless million people, so I'd say it accomplished what it set out to do.
You are ignoring some truly great moments that would have been totally unheard-of in television, even 10 years prior. The crazy battles, 5-6 locations, a preposterously large web drawn together (again for TV standards) and so on. The Red Wedding is probably the most amazing – or at least, infamous – scene on TV in the last 5 years.
Even the teleporting bits, where you could have had a good point, falls flat since your examples are actually poor.
And despite all this you've obviously watched several seasons of it.
Reminds me of the folks who put 400 hours into Fallout and then declare that It Sucks.
It's supposed to be Tits & Dragons. It's trying to be Tits & Dragons. The redeeming quality is that it manages to push a cast of dozens forward, somehow, while remaining a nice pulpy ride, and NOT relying on hamfisted magic spells most of the time. It's a dumb yarn, for sure, but that doesn't mean it's bad. Point is, it has entertained countless million people, so I'd say it accomplished what it set out to do.
You are ignoring some truly great moments that would have been totally unheard-of in television, even 10 years prior. The crazy battles, 5-6 locations, a preposterously large web drawn together (again for TV standards) and so on. The Red Wedding is probably the most amazing – or at least, infamous – scene on TV in the last 5 years.
I believe in the case of the show being homophobic they are saying the show marginalizes the gay characters from the books into two-dimensional plot devices or uses them for a cheap laugh "he's a sword-swallower, through-and-through."
Chuckie
Member
Don't forget this epic moment:
Lol. Fucking Sand Snakes are the worst thing about this show.
Garrett Hawke
Member
It says right there in the OP they love the books but hate the show's interpretation.
There are even significant rumblings that Martin doesn't like their adaptation all that much.
And one of them is making it into Iron Fist on Netflix! Can't keep them down!
Ocarina_117
Banned
The quoted helps flesh out peoples critique of the show, no?
andythinkpad
Member
Shut up OP. Go read the books and come back to us
and whine more, we don't care.
Chuckie
Member
Yeah whip girl was in Star Wars too.
We'll see if she is a good Colleen Wing. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt though, because I think the problem with the Sand Snakes is more the writing than the acting.
Garrett Hawke
Member
What a well rounded and interesting response to an OP that at least tried to justify opinions
They turned a guy who was defined by his unrivaled skill with a sword and his devotion to Renly and Margaery...into a stereotype. If he's not being humiliated by Cersei, he's telling whores family secrets and jeopardizing everything.
Panthalassic
Member
I haven't read the books, but I did watch until the first couple of episodes of season 5 and then stopped because I realized I don't have time for media about suffering. Also I got really bored with it.
It's normal to watch/read/play things you don't think are very good especially if you want to write about stuff.
Oh, that might explain the so far lacking choreography.
I always hate this line of argument. It's stupid because there could be multiple reasons why a person does something they hate or watch something they hate. I play COD yearly despite hating the franchise now because I play it with my friends. I've watched multiple movies I've hated because my friends watched it. GoT is a cultural phenomenon and even if I wanted to drop it, I'm not going to because it's part of the mainstream now and so it's worth knowing to stay up to date as a general talking point.
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