Imperfected
Member
I mean, it's a hammer. It's not like it's really special or anything, it's just a hunk of heavy metal on the end of a stick.
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
I mean, it's a hammer. It's not like it's really special or anything, it's just a hunk of heavy metal on the end of a stick.
Fenderputty
Banned
Hypothetically speaking ... book 6 is finally released and it's pretty close to the HBO adaptation of it. Meaning book 7 starts off in a similar position to where season 7 starts off. How many of you think he's easily tying everything we've seen so far up in one book?
Like I said ... the major points of the whole story were sold in totality before the show ever started.
Like I said ... the major points of the whole story were sold in totality before the show ever started.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
Tormund's fear was well acted.
Wildlings truly fear the dead.
Wildlings truly fear the dead.
Oh yeah, in no way I am solely blaming D&D for this mess. It definitely lies on the feet of GRRM not finishing his shit. 10 years to do 2 books isn't impossible, different story threads or not. However, it doesn't help D&D when they're bumrushing to the ending so that they can do other things. It's apparently noticeable in the show and people are complaining about it now. Especially when they could have written it better if they had taken their time thinking about it. They really should take on more help with the writing if that's the case because they definitely risk alienating a portion on the fanbase doing it this way.
RoninChaos
Member
What makes you think that? Or are you just suggesting that because the story being told isn't something you're feeling? These guys are the producers of the show, what they're doing is juggling 12 chainsaws because no matter what they do people won't be happy. And now they've had three more chainsaws thrown into the mix because Martin didn't do his fucking job and finish the story. Working on anything for 10 years has to be hard, but I seriously doubt these guys jumped into this, as fans of this material and now want to get off because "they want to end the show quickly". Come on.
RustyNails
Member
Instead of juggling 12 chainsaws they could have been juggling say 10 if they made the episode make more sense instead of less sense. Yes GRRM is to fault as well, but come on. Ok, GRRM is a lazy ass but he gave you this wonderful material to work with, and you screwed it up despite being fans of his material? We have people in this thread make much more plausible scenarios than the one writers came up with. Its not fanfic to say Bran should have been used in last night's episode. I'm just upset, that's all. D&D at least could have put more effort, no? I think the series could have easily used one more season instead of compressed episodes with quick resolutions. Samwell needed to stick in Oldtown for at least a season. Benjen did not need to die. I still love the show but the problem is that things are making less sense due to how fast everything is moving (and it does not need to!) and I'm disappointed.
Okay here's another thing. How actively involved do you all think GRRM is involved this season besides the outline? Is he there to help guide them, put in better dialogue, and comment on setpieces? Because if not, why is GRRM writing for another TV spinoff when he could probably be helping with the season 7 scripts?
RoninChaos
Member
There are definitely some things that could be done better, but that goes without saying and that's not the point I'm arguing. You're saying martin gave them wonderful material to work with, that material doesn't EXIST. Season 7 is straight up D&D having to make up and write the end game for a story Martin had 10 years to finish. 10 YEARS. Martin at best gave them high level story beats and none of the connective tissue in between but you're complaining about D&D fucking up the landing when they weren't the ones who were supposed to be sticking the landing anyway. None of that even addresses your statement about how D&D don't want to do this anymore. How does what you said translate to "oh, D&D, they just don't want to do this anymore" as you said previously? You went from saying they basically sucked and their hearts werent into it to "I'm just upset, and things could have been done better". That's a far cry from "D&D don't want to do this anymore".
oh, and the seasons are shorter because of the budget. D&D have commented on this. There were more dragon effect shots in the caravan episode than there have been in the entire show. Shortening the seasons was neccesary for budgetary reasons. I wish they were longer as it feels like there's a ton of stuff to wrap up but I'd rather have shorter seasons with beautiful effects that help the story rather than some ps1 level CGI that would totally fuck the show up so they could extend the seasons by 3 episodes so people can talk more.
Yup I agree. This episode especially, like it would have been impactful if this was Drogon dying, but this didn't do anything for me. And it's only amplified by Dany's underwhelming reaction in the following scenes.
I hope we're getting a decent finale with some good GoT moments but this episode was really underwhelming, and it was probably the episode I was looking forward the most.
RoninChaos
Member
I doubt Martin is doing anything with the show because he's apparently helping with 4 other spin off scripts, writing some book on the Targaryens, and writing 10 pages a year of Winds of Winter. The man is busy pretending he's actually writing.
They have no chemistry together. Jon just sulks and Dany demands things. And Jon is such a shitty king of the north. Dany had already pledged to help fight the white walkers, yet he "bends the knee" anyways...
This post makes me sad
UnObtainium17
Member
I agree. When Jon went "My kweeeeeen." Lawd.
Also the look Dany gives Jon.. Every. Single. Time. I think she wants his uhhh.. snow cone.
10 pages a year lol
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
No matter what they claim, I highly doubt he's actively involved in how the show is being made. I think they got a broad outline and were sent on their way. No way he's in the room helping with dialogue.
I think the complaint that people have that the show is very un-Games of Throne is valid because there is absolutely no subversion in the writing of the show now, which people came to expect from how the material was handled initially. Like I said earlier, it's very "TV" now. The big moments are incredibly telegraphed and it cheats when it gets boxed into a corner.
The show is still immensely entertaining for me, but I totally see why some are turned off by this original content.
People don't give enough credit to Clark
Darryl M R
Member
"She might be heading for warmer temps but it looks like Dany is anticipating about 6-8 inches of Snow"
Welp.
Welp.
He is the writer of the season finale. So if the next episode sucks that will be much more on him.
Winter truly is coming
No he's not, stop making stuff up. He hasn't written an episode for the show since season 4.
RoninChaos said:
GRRM was not involved in season 6 iirc.
People have been complaining about this show since it started. Now that the thrust of those complaints isn't "this isn't what happened in the books," it has settled on "why doesn't it take 10 episodes for someone to travel from point A to B anymore" and "Benioff and Weiss clearly just don't like the show and are rushing through it so they can be done quicker." Reality check, people: even if they hated Game of Thrones and hated themselves for still working on it, cutting a season down from 10 episodes to 7 doesn't get them out of the production any quicker!
The show isn't without flaws, but the degree to which certain flaws are blown out of proportion -- or outright imagined -- is so ridiculous that it becomes impossible to take some of you guys seriously.
It is his panty-dropper move.
He's not involved. The show has diverged greatly from the books, any potential involvement from him would be pointless anyway. It's the D&D show.
The fellowship knew taking out a king brings down a lot of the army. Not once did they try to direct Dany to aim in the Night King's direction. All the kings were grouped together also.
Why did Jon keep pushing forward when everyone had already hopped onto the dragon? His strategy was to fall back, but he pushes forward when he was the only one standing.
Why did the Night King aim for the flying, harder to hit, further away dragon first rather than the closer dragon that was sitting still with all their enemies on it?
Hell why didn't the NK just picked off the fellowship with his javelin before the dragons showed up?
Plot contrivances
Why did Jon keep pushing forward when everyone had already hopped onto the dragon? His strategy was to fall back, but he pushes forward when he was the only one standing.
Why did the Night King aim for the flying, harder to hit, further away dragon first rather than the closer dragon that was sitting still with all their enemies on it?
Hell why didn't the NK just picked off the fellowship with his javelin before the dragons showed up?
Plot contrivances
No, that was bending the knee.
Sorry if it sounds like I'm complaining. I actually really don't mind this pace myself but it seems like this episode in particular made both critics and fans alike seem very vocal about it. It's hard not to notice this time.
Summer Haze
Banned
I wish the Drogon giving Jon a pass scene was handled better. Just more dialogue and time spent on-screen for them both would have made all the difference. Maybe after seeing how much Drogon likes Jon, Dany asks for his hand, pulls him up and they fly away like A WHOLE NEW WORRRLD!
Well, someone here linked to a hbo website crediting him as the writer for the next episode. Wikipedia still gives it as TBA so it could have been a placeholder I guess.
I kind of want this
Lasthope106
Member
Source? He hasn't been involved with the show for a few seasons now.
TheRagnCajun
Member
So do you think Jon will make a pit stop in Winterfell next? Arya is there, Bran has some news for Jon, he needs to tell his country that they are with Danerys now. He should probably check up on Littlefinger. Seems like a logical stop to make.
I want him to come home/to Arya so badly
Hope so. It make sense to stop there to prove to them that the army of the dead exists so the other lords can finally shut the hell up.
Summer Haze
Banned
Fixed.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Martin has already given them the ending. While the paths and exactant detaiks on how they get there might be different expect the show to be roughly the same as the eventual book.
He's listed along with the show writers for every episode because it's based on the books. They haven't updated the screenwriters for the finale to the site yet but it's definitely D&D.
It almost seemed to me like he was going to make a suicide run on the Night King the way Jamie attempted to on Dany. But then got the staredown and ran the other way, lol
He aimed for the dragon that was approaching him for an attack rather than the one that had its back turned to him.
Why waste your dragon-killing weapons on targets who aren't dragons? The Night King didn't have to do anything but stand there and wait for the group to freeze to death anyway.
Didn't mean to sound like I was singling you out or anything. And I'm not saying the pacing issues aren't without merit (though they don't really bother me in the slightest), but to the degree to which they're blown up just rings hollow to me. Gendry running back to Eastwatch, getting a raven to Dany, and then Dany and the dragons coming to the rescue within a couple hours, I get the issue with that. Complaining that Sam didn't spend a full season or two in Oldtown though (not your criticism, but someone else's I saw raised here)? Come on.
http://www.hbo.com/schedule?focusId=799563
However, looking at the other episodes on that schedule they often credit him + the actual writer. And since the actual writer isn't confirmed yet, it could be that this is simply incomplete. Is it normal for us to not know the writer of an episode less than a week before airing btw?
cartographer
Member
At least for Jon, he's firmly established at this point as a colossal dumbass who often does stupid shit.
Now why they didn't just burn the rushing zombies at this point? So Jon could stare at the Night King and they could have a moment where nobody believed Jon was actually dead.
He's on a ship, so probably not, though he should at least send a raven or something.
I do wish the season had another two episodes just to handle conversations. I find it hard to believe they couldn't budget for two more hours of low-fx stuff. I know they're down to the final bits of content, but there's a lot of conversations and world building that could still happen just through walk and talks.
cartographer
Member
It's not a budget thing, by all accounts. The showrunners wanted this. HBO wanted more.
andythinkpad
Member
Eeek gross. Jon X Ygritte 4ever.
Of course not. That would require the show to face some actually interesting drama instead of manufactured bullshit.
Why not both
Ygritte is a corpse, though.
It's not just budget, it's time. They only so much time to produce these shows.
HBO wanted more seasons. I don't know they've ever said they want more episodes per season.