FrenchMovieTheme
Member
Maybe the night king planned this all out to get one or more of the dragons
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
Maybe the night king planned this all out to get one or more of the dragons
There happened to be a small isolated group there. They had no way of knowing they'd find a separate group of white walkers other than convenience from mediocre/rushed writing.
All these characters knew from facing the white walkers before was that they were always an army, but hey, have this random group of scouts and have one of them arbitrarily singled out of the magic binding thing so you can take it with you.
It was not a "brave but stupid plan", it was an embarrassing excuse from a below-average attempt at writing to move the plot forward. Stupid can't even begin to describe how obtuse and unbelievable the whole thing is.
It singlehandedly destroyed the credibility of every character that didn't call out the complete retardedness of it all.
Certainly not warning anyone about Littlefinger....
Why they didn't just have the Dragon fly up out of the ice with blue eyes I'll never know... they telegraphed that thing and brought in those massive chains that raised even more questions.
Did you ever see what happened to Ned? There's a reason people are saying the show feels different now.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
But Jon isn't Ned, secret prince trope living through crazy bs was always going to happen once we found out who he is.
The minute he came back from the dead you had to resign yourself and know this guy will have plot armour.
The show couldn't rely on killing main characters for ever, not until there's a significant shift in the story. Maybe he'll die towards the end.
btw I'm not defending anything here, just offering an explanation. This show was always going to become a conventional fantasy.
Good writing or bad,(and I'm not excusing the inconsistencies we've seen this season) you can't go back to the War of the 5 kings arc and say "Why isn't the show like this anymore?"
Because ever since the prologue, WWs vs the living was always going to be the conclusion.
This shift will bring a split and understandably so. I understand those who hate the conventional tropes taking over the politicking we've been used to for awhile.
But after Hardhome and other WW appearances, what did you expect?
All I'll say is I wish it was written better, but other than that I expected this going into the endgame.
They weren't coming at them in waves, and Jon was only fighting in one area. We get a scene right after Drogon lands where he destroys an entire group of zombies in the exact same spot Jon fights.
I'm pretty sure Drogon and the guys could have handled the handful of Zombies that were coming lol.
I'm doubling down on my "Daenyrs is about to die" theory. The talk of succession felt like validation for the upcoming chaos.
Does anyone really believe Cersi to behave rationally on the season finale? I don't. I think she kills Daenyrs and becomes the "mad queen." Two dragons go on a crazy rampage and burn a lot of armies. Jon Snow is left next season trying to go after them while the North flees to the south to buy time.
If the "alliance" between Cersi/Snow/Daenyrs really takes hold, you're left with a somewhat boring 1-dimensional conflict next season. The whole time, you'll be on the lookout for what inevitably must be Cersi's demise.
To be clear, the only basis I have for this theory is that the world of Westeros would be a lot more interesting for a final season without Daenyrs around. It forces rebuilding alliances, retraining dragons, and resolving meaningful conflicts (Starks vs Lannisters, The Hound vs The Mountain, The Kingslayer vs the Mad Queen, Arya's list, etc.)
The world of Westeros lacks chaos too soon before the show's end. Something big has to happen. Danny dying could be that something big.
Does anyone really believe Cersi to behave rationally on the season finale? I don't. I think she kills Daenyrs and becomes the "mad queen." Two dragons go on a crazy rampage and burn a lot of armies. Jon Snow is left next season trying to go after them while the North flees to the south to buy time.
If the "alliance" between Cersi/Snow/Daenyrs really takes hold, you're left with a somewhat boring 1-dimensional conflict next season. The whole time, you'll be on the lookout for what inevitably must be Cersi's demise.
To be clear, the only basis I have for this theory is that the world of Westeros would be a lot more interesting for a final season without Daenyrs around. It forces rebuilding alliances, retraining dragons, and resolving meaningful conflicts (Starks vs Lannisters, The Hound vs The Mountain, The Kingslayer vs the Mad Queen, Arya's list, etc.)
The world of Westeros lacks chaos too soon before the show's end. Something big has to happen. Danny dying could be that something big.
I'm sad, man. I honestly don't want to have a meltdown but it's like seeing your baby turn into a flat earth believer or some shit, lol. I really wanted to believe this episode would pull me back into the fold and give hope to the rest of the show like a lot of the penultimate seasonal episodes have done. I had so much misplaced hope and it's been devastating.
MushroomSamba
Member
I've come to accept this is a different Game of Thrones from what we've known in the preceding seasons. And with this, just enjoying it for the spectacle it now is.
Stuff I don't have a problem with:
- Dany making it there so quickly. If it's like a 100 miles or so, she can probably cover that in a couple hours easy, if not sooner, I would assume.
- NK waiting around for the crew to die. Sure, they have time on their hands. Why not just wait a few days and just wait for them to freeze to death instead of risking more of your troops. Only weird thing is that they ultimately decided to charge in anyway. So what was even the point of waiting?
Stuff I laughed at:
- Random huge ass chains they happened to have brought with them, which conveniently came in handy to drag a dragon out of the lake. Maybe the NK anticipated the dragons coming and brought it just for this situation? How could he even have known this?
- Benjen coming by in the nick of time, and taking a second to look at the still-faraway horde and saying "no time", when he could've just used that time to hop on the fucking horse and ride away with Jon. Felt super random and pointless. Like why even have the Snow fakeout in the first place? It's like D&D just remembered Benjen still exists and needed to wrap up a loose end. Jon should've just gotten on the damn dragon before if he was gonna make it back alive. No reason to waste precious screentime with that lameness.
- Gendry, who's never seen snow before, is somehow a marathon runner in it, impervious to huffing in lung-freezing air with every stride.
Stuff I don't have a problem with:
- Dany making it there so quickly. If it's like a 100 miles or so, she can probably cover that in a couple hours easy, if not sooner, I would assume.
- NK waiting around for the crew to die. Sure, they have time on their hands. Why not just wait a few days and just wait for them to freeze to death instead of risking more of your troops. Only weird thing is that they ultimately decided to charge in anyway. So what was even the point of waiting?
Stuff I laughed at:
- Random huge ass chains they happened to have brought with them, which conveniently came in handy to drag a dragon out of the lake. Maybe the NK anticipated the dragons coming and brought it just for this situation? How could he even have known this?
- Benjen coming by in the nick of time, and taking a second to look at the still-faraway horde and saying "no time", when he could've just used that time to hop on the fucking horse and ride away with Jon. Felt super random and pointless. Like why even have the Snow fakeout in the first place? It's like D&D just remembered Benjen still exists and needed to wrap up a loose end. Jon should've just gotten on the damn dragon before if he was gonna make it back alive. No reason to waste precious screentime with that lameness.
- Gendry, who's never seen snow before, is somehow a marathon runner in it, impervious to huffing in lung-freezing air with every stride.
The Plot Dungeon
But he didn't, so Jon did.
They were waiting for the ice to refreeze so they could cross the lake to kill them.
There's no indication that they brought the chains with them, but rather that time passed and they went to get the chains at another location.
Bran is not a 'character' anymore. He is a plot device that only shows up to deliver information.
They cemented this by having him absent in Season 5, and Season 6 being his transition to this history vehicle.
ComputerBlue
Member
I'm sad, man. I honestly don't want to have a meltdown but it's like seeing your baby turn into a flat earth believer or some shit, lol. I really wanted to believe this episode would pull me back into the fold and give hope to the rest of the show like a lot of the penultimate seasonal episodes have done. I had so much misplaced hope and it's been devastating.
Please go back and watch episodes 1-3 so you can realize you should have hated the show from the beginning.
Deaf Spacker
Memb
Finally watched the episode an hour or so ago. Honestly, I think it was one of the worst episodes since season 5 I think. The whole suicide squad was great, even if the combination of fast travel, convenient timing and one undead remaining undead, because there was a pay off in the highest level of the night king and the undead dragon.
But the whole Winterfell plot is so dumb it took away all the enjoyment brought by the rest. You have Arya tormented for so many episodes in order to become a super assassin only to be fooled like a child and to behave like a Bolton with her own family. This while a super visionary Bran is still in the same castle. And while she doesn't use her own super abilities to investigate further. It's just falsely created drama to keep relevant a personage that no longer has a role in the bigger picture.
But the whole Winterfell plot is so dumb it took away all the enjoyment brought by the rest. You have Arya tormented for so many episodes in order to become a super assassin only to be fooled like a child and to behave like a Bolton with her own family. This while a super visionary Bran is still in the same castle. And while she doesn't use her own super abilities to investigate further. It's just falsely created drama to keep relevant a personage that no longer has a role in the bigger picture.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Try nearly 2000 miles.
My alarm bells have been going off for a few episodes now, especially last week when
they showed one of the dragons positively reacting to his presence.
I agree. 🤔
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
How is it mediocre writing? The show established seasons ago that the white walkers are not only getting closer to the wall but also that some splinter off into groups or go off alone, in fact that's quite literally the first instance of us seeing white walkers is seeing that fact proven. The dead roam freely outside the wall. Hell there's even an implication that it was a trap all along considering one wight just happened to not be affect by the magic of the leader of that group.
Jon and Tourmond=the entire group now? Literally none of these characters were even seen North let alone fighting white walkers.
It was a plan from a character who has shown all season that he's quite terrible at plans but his only hope of resolving things the way HE wants them to go, without as much bloodshed.
Ok then..
Might as well whole ass it
Idk if this is the official Facebook page for the books or not, but if it is they ain't shit lmao.
MushroomSamba
Member
Ah, I see. I didn't realize the ice cracked perfectly all around them. Thought it was only in certain areas. I guess that's also kinda coincidental...not sure how ice physics work, but figured it wouldn't be that convenient.
The fact that giant chains like that even exist is kinda weird, too. Was it for a gate? It just seemed really glaring and out-of-place to me, but it's easy enough to dismiss in the bigger scheme of things. Would've preferred if NK just did his Hardhome move and raise the dragon out from beneath the ice itself.
Like Season 1 episode 1-3?
I've watched Season 1 probably 5 or 6 times now. It's one of my favorite seasons of any show ever.
The thing does this does is that it proves to the whole world that it's real, too. News spreads fast, we've seen this time and time again in the show, so once King's Landing knows it's real, that will spread, no longer will Jon have to try to convince people that this is all real.
At this point I'd be surprised if Cersei gave a shit. She's probably confident she can destroy anyone at this point.
It pisses me off that they devoted such a large part of the story for something that is likely to be set aside and let forgotten. They could have done something cool and worthwhile with the character. There just isn't any payoff. Maybe there will be next episode/season.
As the night watch, Jon and co -did- run into smaller isolated groups of wights before. That's what they were aiming for, while visibly staying within hours of Eastwatch by foot.
There are many things to nitpick here, and the plan was extremely risky, but it's far from a terrible plan if the premise is that you have to unify Westeros nations that would sooner stab each other to death than believe in an undead army coming from the North.
Majmun
Member
People come up with the weirdest shit in here. (myself included)
Basically all fanfic or speculation are potential spoilers then!
My only problem is the fact that there's no real way of determining how much time has passed between some scenes so it just ends up looking stupid.
I doubt Cersei would come to the realization that Westeros is fucked. All she cares about is being the only person to sit on the iron throne. She'll probably come up with some shit to kill the rest of the dragons off.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
Finale being directed by the guy who did the Sand Snakes vs Jaime and Bronn scene.
Why did Miguel Sapochnik have to leave? :[
They're gems mate, lmao.
Why did Miguel Sapochnik have to leave? :[
VS
Doesnt seem like a reflection. Maybe Bran warging?
They're gems mate, lmao.
VS
Doesnt seem like a reflection. Maybe Bran warging?
Warging into what, the sword? LOL
ComputerBlue
Member
VS
Doesnt seem like a reflection. Maybe Bran warging?
Bran cannot warg into a sword hilt c'mon now, lol. It's a gem and it's a reflection.
there is a reason why movies like civil war and rogue one have huge "THIS COUNTRY" "THIS PLANET" when the story moves to other places
we need a big sign that says 36 HOURS LATER or what?
Don't give D&D any ideas.
Game of Thrones is in a Lost like situation where fan theories sometimes end up being more interesting and more coherent than what the show actually does. However, unlike the last season of Lost, Game of Thrones' sheer spectacle saves it from the weak writing and keeps it entertaining, a lot like a bunch of the Orci and Kurtzman stuff i.e., the Star Trek reboot. In fact, I'm confident in saying that Benioff and Weiss are a writing pair in the same mold as Orci and Kurtzman. They write some great spectacle stuff, but if you think too deeply about what's actually happening, it completely falls apart.
And to continue the Lost analogy, no matter how convenient the writing becomes for Game of Thrones, I doubt it would ever sink to the the lowest of lows of Lost season 6, the terribly produced exposition dump "Across the Sea" so I'll probably have a more enjoyable time watching season 7 of Game of Thrones than I had watching season 6 of Lost.
And to continue the Lost analogy, no matter how convenient the writing becomes for Game of Thrones, I doubt it would ever sink to the the lowest of lows of Lost season 6, the terribly produced exposition dump "Across the Sea" so I'll probably have a more enjoyable time watching season 7 of Game of Thrones than I had watching season 6 of Lost.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
"Creatively, it made sense."
You're nuts.
ComputerBlue
Member
Yes exactly those 3 episodes.
1, 2, and the first 20 minutes or so of episode 3 in the very first season.
If the passage of time and how it's portrayed is now ruining the show for you, I don't see how you can equally consider the first season to be one of your favorite seasons of any show ever.