water_wendi
Water is not wet!
When did this happen? i dont remember this.
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT PART 2| Season 6 - [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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When the dragons are first born I think. She says these are the only children I can ever have. I think the witch said her baby from drogo was stillborn with scales and green skin or something like that.
I am speaking for myself.
Myself and all the alleged people who only hate her arc because they've decided to hate Daenerys' character for seemingly no reason.
Nothing happened, because she's been in arrested development for at least 2 seasons, probably more (i want to say at least three) with really very minor moments of character development, here and there.
Being able to forgive Jorah, didn't even mean anything, since she didn't show any change in her character, or growth, it was literally giving the fans a break, after he trotted around fo miles, and got a deadly disease just to impress her.
Her relationship with him didn't gain much, since it was an excuse to basically send the character off screen forever: "go find a cure, elsewhere!"
So essentially, it was just the Xth scene showing her compassion, but conveniently not moving her or her plot forward, just cutting Jorah off the picture in an inelegant way.
Also, throwing clichè around to imply here, that Cersei's arc is less interesting and developed than Daenerys?
Yeah, she's shown time and again her expertise in politics.
Nameless
Member
I didn't say everyone, but it's a fact that some have. The biggest indicators are the typical reductive assertions about her only doing "X". In the season she became a full fledged dragon rider, brought tens of thousands of Dothraki to her side, amassed a formidable fleet, and aligned the Great House of Westeros that could make the best use of them, trying to make it seem like nothing of substance happened in her arc is not just disingenuous and unfair, it's objectively incorrect. If anything this is THE season she truly became Westeros ready.
TL;dr Dany not going anything you're interested in isn't the same as Dany not doing anything.
Seems more like you just missed the point. Idk. Ill just agree to disagree.
Exactly.
Like I really wouldnt be suprised if she set sail next episode. To say that we've been anywhere near this point previously is just bullocks.
What does "becoming a full fledged dragon rider" means? This is the first season she hopped on a dragon, just because they were big enough.
She didn't do anything in particular to understand them more, they just matured on their own (if anything, Tyrion was the one setting them free... which i guess had some form of impact).
Similarly with the Dothraki, she didn't show anything about her character that wasn't there since almost the beginning (or at least Drogo's death); she enters, delivers a "badass speech", and uses her super powers (be it immunity to flames or dragons) to kill everyone in her path--> everyone bows.
That may be growth of her physical army, but it isn't character growth, which is what is more interesting to see.
Mind you, she isn't the only character with such a problem ( i thought Jon was pretty 2 dimensional, for a long while ) but she has the handicap of being surrounded by equally static characters, Greyworm, Daario, and now Tyrion and Varys, who ever since they were there, didn't get to evolve much, themselves.
You cant just ride dragons without forming some sort of bond. And thats supposed to be impossible for humans, which is why the targs were so devastating in the first place. This has been stated a few times now, you dont just ride them because theyre a certain age.
Only the oldest one seems to care for Dany, the others would snap at her and go wreck havoc hence why she had them chained.
She clearly has become more and more in sync with Drogon. She can basically call him with some form of telepathy at this point. Hell she seemed to care more about him than anybody else when the Harpies were attacking. Shes risked her life a couple times to save them now.
When you want to be reductionist it tends to be quite easy to miss details but that doesnt mean they arent there. Maybe people should read the lore more to understand things a bit better.
Only the oldest one seems to care for Dany, the others would snap at her and go wreck havoc hence why she had them chained.
She clearly has become more and more in sync with Drogon. She can basically call him with some form of telepathy at this point. Hell she seemed to care more about him than anybody else when the Harpies were attacking. Shes risked her life a couple times to save them now.
When you want to be reductionist it tends to be quite easy to miss details but that doesnt mean they arent there. Maybe people should read the lore more to understand things a bit better.
I honestly don't see any detail there. She ended up forming a bond with Drogon once he came back (after he killed the farmer's girl and wandered off) because of reasons. We don't really see that relationship develop or any taming from Dany's part (except chaining up the two little ones). As for telepathy...well ok I guess that's an explanation.
And when the harpies attacked and had him pinned down with spears? The time at the house of the undying? Shes cared for them since they were born, even risking herself to save them. I really dont see how you could miss their bond forming this whole time.
And what other explanation would there be? Its been clear ever since that scene with the harpies. Hell its clear now that she was able to lay a trap for the masters with him not even being closed. Its not like she has a dog whistle or something..
Nameless
Member
She rode Drogon to escape the arena last season, this season she used him as a means to inspire a culture who value riding prowess and strength above all, and then rode him into battle. Beyond that there's the connection she has with her dragons that she's learning how to harness. Her figuring out how to creatively utilize and combine her gifts is character development, and helps set the stage for her imminent trip West. And I only count one "bad ass speech" this season.
I'm talking about the stuff in the show.
"Go read the wiki" isn't a good retort.
At no point they made an effort to show if and why she "bonded" with Drogon more than the others.
Even if you assume that it's because they both are rebels (lol) they never made an effort to show a reason why her bond should've gotten stronger.
"She can now ride, them, so i assume they bonded more?" Is how you're selling this "character growth" to me.
But as far as moments on screen actually showing this, there wasn't much, aside from her having to chain them down, and then Drogon generally being an asshole.
But yeah, she's essentially been the arrogant-but-sometimes-compassionate character she was 2 seasons ago.
Getting a new weapon isn't character growth to me.
She didn't become more creative, and she didn't become better at war: her dragons just grew up biologically, she just waited until she could ride them, then she did.
Also, she putting the Kahls in their place counts as badass speech.
Not saying Dany never cared for them, but what made them listen and obey her after Drogon continued to become more aggressive and killed the farmer's girl? The show certainly made it a point to highlight the dragons' wild nature once they had begun becoming larger. He came back when she was being attacked by the Harpies. I guess we're to assume he worked off his angst and aggression off screen? I think for me, this is the general problem with Dany's stroyline. There's some interesting ideas and conflicts brought up but they're never seen through or realised completely.
Ive said nothing about the wiki. Its been explained serveral times in the show and in the dvd extras that explain the lore.
Its not really a retort either. Ive already told you I agreed to disagree with you. If you cant see whats obviously there then I have no time or want to explain it for you. Sorry.
Like I said, I point out the objectively wrong but your opinions are your opinions. Not really interested in those.
Like this. This is objectively wrong.
He came back to see her before that attack. He's still pretty wild I would say. He flys off and does his own thing unless she calls him. I think logic would determine that he has to feed himself so baby farmers are more than likely still getting barbequed. He's always obeyed her but shes never been able to become between him and a meal.
Well, you throw "objectively" around a lot, but i'm not sure how i am supposed to answer that.
I can tell you that you, are objectively wrong... doesn't get us far, though.
You aren't interested in others' opinions though (on a forum, of all places), so i guess that's that.
Its not that I dont care about your opinion. Its that I dont care to convince you otherwise. Its been 6 years and youve likely seen every episode. Your mind is probably made up at this point.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Dany has been boring as hell, and one-note for seasons now. Her goodbye scene with Mormont this season was the most personality and development she's had for years. I'm over trying to reconcile her into an interesting character.
I'll place my two cents on Dany, in writing on a phone so excuse any typos or grammatical errors:
Personally, I really enjoyed her story, just as much as the other stories for other characters. Yes she was more badass pre season 4 but to say she had no character development is well, untrue in my opinion. She went through many woes and came across unexpected scenarios that would be baffling to anyone expecting an abolishment for something as clear cut as slavery. The slavers posed problems, that's to be expected, but the main issues came from the freed men themselves, some wanted slavery again, others thought Dany is making them the masters. Some worshipped her when all she wanted was justice, her skewed sense of justice anyway.
When she first entered mereen, she crucified masters who may have been innocent just because, she dreamed about burning cities to the ground and had absolutely no regard to any life she deemed as her enemy. She was falling into the same traps as her father and Daario did not help in that regard. He eniucraged her to burn any life, regardless of any trial, and it took sir barriston Selmy to show her the errors of her ways. this confusion and lack of confidence reflected on her dragons as well. That's why she needed to go back to the dothraki to prove that she herself is a queen even without her army, her dragons, or anyone for that matter.
So yeah, there was a lot of character development, she has had her ups and downs and learned a great deal from that. I can see why people don't like her but she has gone through a lot of shit.
Personally, I really enjoyed her story, just as much as the other stories for other characters. Yes she was more badass pre season 4 but to say she had no character development is well, untrue in my opinion. She went through many woes and came across unexpected scenarios that would be baffling to anyone expecting an abolishment for something as clear cut as slavery. The slavers posed problems, that's to be expected, but the main issues came from the freed men themselves, some wanted slavery again, others thought Dany is making them the masters. Some worshipped her when all she wanted was justice, her skewed sense of justice anyway.
When she first entered mereen, she crucified masters who may have been innocent just because, she dreamed about burning cities to the ground and had absolutely no regard to any life she deemed as her enemy. She was falling into the same traps as her father and Daario did not help in that regard. He eniucraged her to burn any life, regardless of any trial, and it took sir barriston Selmy to show her the errors of her ways. this confusion and lack of confidence reflected on her dragons as well. That's why she needed to go back to the dothraki to prove that she herself is a queen even without her army, her dragons, or anyone for that matter.
So yeah, there was a lot of character development, she has had her ups and downs and learned a great deal from that. I can see why people don't like her but she has gone through a lot of shit.
I really fail to see her growth as a politician and a ruler (and as a character, too)
She seems to resolve any and all problems with hubris and brute force.
She faced a lot of different challenges, yes, but (and this is my point) her way to deal with them hasn't changed.
Other characters have tried for her, but some scenes, like Tyrion bartering with the slavers, happened while she wasn't even there.
She seems to resolve any and all problems with hubris and brute force.
She faced a lot of different challenges, yes, but (and this is my point) her way to deal with them hasn't changed.
Other characters have tried for her, but some scenes, like Tyrion bartering with the slavers, happened while she wasn't even there.
Vincent Alexander
Member
You know, I really like what you've written up here. But this post actually makes me more sad, because I realize she did have growth, especially taking into consideration her crucifying of the masters. So many told her how wrong that was, and it took Selmy to guide her and help her grow as a leader. And she did. So I find her character even more depressing because now I realize that they screwed all that because Episode 9, when she is explaining her plan to Tyrion:
"I will crucify the masters. I will set their fleets afire. Kill every last one of their soldiers and return their castle to dirt."
She didn't learn her lesson. And it's hard to like her when she has a smug look on her face, looking down at Tyrion as he explains to her that what she wants to do is akin to what the Mad King did. Though I hate using this moment as an example, because what comes after is the first time I've liked her in a while. She actually listened to Tyrion and took the advice of an advisor.
Its a shame that she has been dealing with slavers for seasons and seasons and seasons now. In different shapes and forms. It's hard to develop a character who faces the same obstacle time and time again. She really needs to get to Westeros so we can introduce her to some new plot points. I have a feeling that is when she is really going to shine. Or at least I hope so.
Dany's story is as frustrating for us to watch as I'm sure it has been for Dave and Dan to portray on the show. You have to come up with filler for her basically. We all want her to come to Westeros, but it wouldn't have made sense this early with all the other strife they were to set up. If she arrives with dragons/dothraki/unsullied etc, none of the other conflicts matter. This is what we'll see soon, but it is clear that the end game is near.
Could they have given her more interesting things to do though as all the stories converge? Probably.
Could they have given her more interesting things to do though as all the stories converge? Probably.
This is definitely not a lie.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Even Kit upped his game this season.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Yes. 1000x this. I've not wanted to say it because I'm afraid most get eaten alive for suggesting it...but she really isn't a great actress.
Naughty_Doge
Member
Dany's arc was fairly decent up until mid season 4 when she decides to rule Meereen. Ever since it became a chore with her making dumb decisions and still learning nothing about ruling.
At least it looks like she's finally leaving Essos this season.
At least it looks like she's finally leaving Essos this season.
And this, unfortunately.
jediyoshi
Member
They shot without a script, offbook, through the machinations of the director the night before. The linked piece references shots that include these scenes yet still ties it into their existing narrative which spans Jon's larger arc. Even if the intentions are the same, the actual scene is a step removed from its last original vision.
And the High Sparrow? Take the two most unique scenes of his you can from this season and tell me what his dialogue consists of. They're going out of their way to make him one dimensional by virtue of not wanting to explicitly reveal what his intentions are, except as a result, we just get characters slowly talking to a wall one on one for 5 minutes.
Thats true but Kit Harington also isnt the best actor.
Yeah this is also interesting. Her Targaryen DNA really shown through quite a few times. Learning what not to do with her now overwhelming power is also development for her character. Its not as obvious as someone getting raped and then growing courage out of nowhere but still.
I feel like if you cant see her growing as a ruler than you arent really looking. Or looking for the wrong thing.
Yet here we are with them as the main characters. Although I don't think Kit is a bad actor, just kinda plain. Doesn't really bring anything interesting to the table but does an alright job in my opinion.
I feel like she's only kinda bad when she has to deliver lines where she's loud and angry.
https://youtu.be/n8Y34AEN3bo?t=1m25s
They needed to do a couple more takes cus that came off weird.
He isn't, but so far he's been involved in big action over diplomatic character drama. Fighting Karl Tanner beyond the Wall, defending the Wall from Wildlings, fighting the White Walkers at Hardhome, reclaiming Winterfell from Ramsay. All big action packed fight sequences which are big crowd pleasers. Dany needs more of that. When you're riding a dragon and burning down enemy ships in big action set pieces, no one really cares if you're a bad actor or not!
Never underestimate the child actors on Game of Thrones. Joffery, Arya,
Hot Pie
Host Samurai
Member
Got an itch that the end game is going to be Dany vs White Walkers. Just wonder if the White Walkers will have Ice Dragons to combat Danys. Cuz right now it seems Dany can easily take out the White Walkers.
Hope Mel doesn't die. She's mysterious and hot as fuck. Really enjoy the character. All I hope for in the finale is for the Mountain to fuckin destroy the High Sparrow and his army. They're the scariest and most dangerous threat right now.
Hope Mel doesn't die. She's mysterious and hot as fuck. Really enjoy the character. All I hope for in the finale is for the Mountain to fuckin destroy the High Sparrow and his army. They're the scariest and most dangerous threat right now.
a Master Ninja
Member
I thought even the first season telegraphed pretty heavily that eventually Danny will be riding her dragons to King's Landing, but the real threat to Westeros is the White Walkers. I've got bluer balls than the Night King about it.
Samurai G0SU
Member
I feel that the high sparrow is doing his deed For the lord of light but thinks its the Seven.
Same with the red god/god of death
Big twisy incoming? Like the little finger twists?
Same with the red god/god of death
Big twisy incoming? Like the little finger twists?
Hey, if Jaime gets back to King's Landing in time, and Cersei is gonna blow it up with wildfire, do you think Jaime would try to kill her to prevent it, like he did the Mad King? Or if he can't prevent it, do you think he would kill her because she blew it up? I mean, that moment of killing Aerys has haunted and shaped him into who he is, even though it was an act that saved thousands of lives. It's like, no matter how much shit people ever gave him for being the dishonorable Kingslayer, he still knew what he did, and what he prevented. Now imagine Cersei of all people actually going through with it, essentially stealing that from Jaime.
Assuming stuff goes down how we think it's gonna go down, shit's gonna get fucked up.
Assuming stuff goes down how we think it's gonna go down, shit's gonna get fucked up.
He loves Cersei, fuck the kingdom.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Danny's been solid to pretty good this season. I think large parts in seasons 3-5 bar some exceptional moments were really boring for me though. Having a Lannister next to her makes her a lot more interesting.
Yeah, Dany has had some somewhat boring stuff but all her stuff has been great this season. I figured she would be kidnapped the whole season and it'd feel like fillers but all of that ended pretty quickly, gave us a lot of great moments and now she had an amazing battle scene and has Theon and Yara.
chicko1983
Member
The zombies don't like fire, however the white walkers can walk through fire, as seen in the hold the door episode just before the entered the tree cave.
I agree, he's more likely to be Kingslayer x2 than kill Cersei.
Langdon Alger
Banned
Dany was one of my favorite characters when the show first started, but she's become a one-note, cartoonish, cardboard cutout of a character now. She spent years doing nothing in Meereen and now all she does is scream speeches about how she's the mother of dragons and is going to conquer the world. Can you imagine having an actual conversation with her? The friggin' Hound has more subtlety and depth to his character than Dany.
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