JoJoShabadoo
Member
Yes, the casting/characterization in the show is fucked up for a lot of the secondary characters. The Hound and Littlefinger being examples off the top of my head.
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Game of Thrones - Season 2 - George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire - Sundays on HBO
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Yes, the casting/characterization in the show is fucked up for a lot of the secondary characters. The Hound and Littlefinger being examples off the top of my head.
JoJoShabadoo
Member
Cry more, haha. Sounds like you're the one crying. I'd say all the responses to this season have been pretty damn lukewarm. A character death like Renly's (or an episode this late into the season) should be followed by shit like ALL OVER MY FACE not "overall it was pretty good, next week looks like it'll be great!"
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Actually it didn't sound like that at all. You are the who comes off as a super whiny nitpicker.
If they cut out a lot of the Hound's interactions with Sansa, they'll probably cut out the majority of what came later for the character too.
I still think they are doing a good job with the show though, there's just sooooooooo much content to go through in a short amount of time. I am glad i read the books though. And now i don't remember who's idea it was to use wildfire, the show is rewriting my memory
JoJoShabadoo
Member
No, people that get defensive over their precious show being criticized is crying. Saying that the Renly death scene is badly directed and acted isn't nitpicking, it's stating a fact that makes this show come off as amateurish.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I love this season, as do plenty of people who aren't just upset about book changes. Also I never thought Renly's death was all that shocking of an event in the book. It was almost as glossed over there as it was in the show.
It has been like that...in the non-spoiler thread. What do you think is going to happen in the thread where everyone's cherry has already been popped?
Your imagination played it out to your liking, but you can't say the show is fucking up for not meeting your expectations. That's completely unrealistic.
Read it again. The idea was Cersei's.
[ACok spoiler]http://towerofthehand.com/books/102/021/index.html
Duane Cunningham
Member
Over in the No Book Readers thread, that is pretty much their take.
SerArthurDayne
Member
I don't think so. And spoilerish territory towards the end there. It is effective as is. A potent weapon, but Cersei was incompetent in her use of it, as Bronn points out.
Wow, I was really enjoying this show for a minute there. Glad you are here to tell me it actually sucks. Whew.
And that's why Arya's quote was so fucking awesome and true: "Anyone can die"
JoJoShabadoo
Member
My expectations aren't even about comparing it to the book though. It's about watching an HBO-tier show. Seriously, go watch that stable boy death scene from season 1, tell me that doesn't feel like Xena.
I'm curious what the issue is with Littlefinger. From the perspective of someone who isn't familiar with the books yet, he comes across as appropriately skeevy and smarmy in the show, and the actor plays that pretty splendidly.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
I preferred how Renly's death actually played out in the books too. The whole TENT BLOWS OPEN AND SHADOW FIGURES RUSHES RENLY was a bit on the nose. Seeing someones neck open and and blood spill out due to some nearly invisible enemy is far more affective. But it seems like the show fumbles with the supernatural aspects in general. First the others and now this. The birthing scene was pretty awesome though.
Why are we complaining about season 1 in a season 2 thread? The show has obviously gained a bigger viewership and a bigger budget to match. The scene with Bran climbing on the roof tops of Winterfell looked dumb too, but it was in the show's pilot when they weren't even sure the show was going to be picked up.
Yeah, I that makes a lot of sense. Shame they brought him in so early. The horror of the world of ASOIAF is part of what draws me into the books. George has a gift for thinking of grisly ways to dispose of people.
I like both of them. Don't really have any sense of how they differ because I saw the first season before reading the books so I couldn't imagine Littlefinger as anyone other than the guy on the show. I recall George revealing on a recent video interview that Littlefinger is one of the characters on the show that contrasts with what he had in his mind when writing. As for the Hound, the guy has barely gotten any screen time. What I've seen of him reflects what's in the books well. It's just that the writers keep taking away his scenes. Speaking of... Anyone else feel that Sansa's role this season has been deminished? She's barely on the show. What happened to Dontos? Her run-ins with the Hound? Didn't she have a lot of chapters in ACOK?
Also, I'm guessing Tyrion
isn't going to bother with the giant chain?
PhoenixDark
Banned
I don't see how anyone can defend the Renly scene. It was poorly shot and way too cheesy; it reminded me of some of the worst smoke monster scenes in Lost S5 or S6. The start of the scene made it seem like the shadows/wind would be utilized, so my expectations were raised. I understand they had planned on doing something with that, but changed at the last minute.
Overall this season is directed better than the first, but both of David Petrarca's episodes featured some odd shots that just felt off
Overall this season is directed better than the first, but both of David Petrarca's episodes featured some odd shots that just felt off
krameriffic
Member
I think the actor portrays his inscrutability very well, but I don't recall actually reading most of his interactions with Renly and the Baratheon army directly in the book. He is a character whose actions are typically recounted after the fact in a council meeting in the book (usually a Tyrion chapter) since he doesn't get his own PoV chapters. I could be misremembering as it has been a long time since I read ACOK. I think it's the scenes they are adding to show us directly what he is doing that are making him seem different than people's expectations.
The Lamonster
Member
Arya sticking the stable boy with Needle, Cressen poisoning himself and Renly getting stabbed have all felt rushed and not given the dramatic weight they required.
On the other hand, a ton of the non-action scenes have been directed perfectly, like "the King in the North!" That scene 'felt' like it felt in the books but I can't say the same for the action scenes noted above.
On the other hand, a ton of the non-action scenes have been directed perfectly, like "the King in the North!" That scene 'felt' like it felt in the books but I can't say the same for the action scenes noted above.
I think it takes a certain level of artistic talent to effectively shoot a scene like many are imagining. Apparently, they tried it and failed. So they decided to go with a more up-front approach, that still looked pretty cool to me, if not quite as mysterious as it was in the books. But I'd rather they go with what works, than feel forced to air a shitty attempt at an 'artistic' approach.
Ah, that's interesting. I can see how they would make for a notable difference.
Cornballer
Member
- Westeros.org: Game of Thrones S2 Soundtrack
More via the link.
JoJoShabadoo
Member
Well that was just an example having to do with how the direction played a part not just in a scene being badly shot/presented, but in not developing Arya's character correctly from the start.
Renly's death is a recent example from this season, and there are definitely other scenes.
Anyways we'll have to agree to disagree, no point in arguing about personal likes/dislikes. This season isn't a complete mess like season 1, but it's definitely not nearly as good as it can and should be.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
They also made Loras not think Brienne killed Renly. I'm not sure why that was even needed to be said in the show. They just change stuff that didn't need to be changed.
The Lamonster
Member
Can't wait to hear 4 versions of the same song they keep using for the Dragonstone gang.
Aside from the end of last night's episode, the soundtrack has been weak this season. They even managed to water down the title theme.
The part of your original post I took issue with was how Renly's death was a blueprint for how the rest of the show will eventually fail.
The show will eventually fail because the writing in books 4 and 5 tail off a bit, unless GRRM comes up with an epic ending for the series (before he dies, lol). Better hope a.) GRRM finishes 6 before that occurs, and b.) the show doesn't lose enough viewers causing a budget slash too great to sustain the profitability in new HBO subscriptions coming in.
PhoenixDark
Banned
From what I understand, they tried it as no-cut tracking shot, which did not work. Perhaps it could have worked as a slightly longer, less rushed sequence with multiple cuts. The majority of the reactions I have seen were negative for the scene.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Would have been cool if Quaithe came in and totally shut down his magic trick. Like made his other self vanish in a puff of flame/smoke.
Yeah, maybe with more time they could have gotten that scene just perfect. This seems like one of those scenes that fell victim to a time constraint (see also: the Battle of the Green Fork in season one). I can't really fault them for it, at least they tried. But time and money are two things they don't have in abundance on the Game of Thrones set (and people want them to film even more episodes a season!).
Or not necessarily make it 1 season per book...then again this show could be on for 14 years and that's pretty much double what any HBO show has ever ran.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
In all fairness, the writing in a lot of HBO shows has tailed off significantly towards the end in my opinion, but it hasn't seem to matter too much.
Well Book 3 is definitely being split into two seasons, don't know beyond that.
PhoenixDark
Banned
You're certainly right about the budget. And I don't have a Ros scene to bring up in terms of wasted screen time that could have been used to extend the Renly scene
I thought overall every scene worked, except for the Renly one to a degree, so overall it was just a well done job. Some people have complained about the Catelyn/Brienne scene and while it was a tad cheesy, I liked it overall. And more importantly I've seen some non book readers somehow read that scene to mean Robb will get together with Brienne ha
Agreed. Thankfully, it seems like the writers have now recognized that not holding themselves to one season = one book is beneficial to the show. I think season 3 and season 4 should be really amazing as they have the freedom to expand on a lot of characters and plot points.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I didn't think the Cressen scene was that bad. Didn't care much for Renly's end though. And Arya killing the stableboy was the worst thing in the series so far. They really fucked that scene up.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
I personally loved the Brienne and Cat scene. Hit the right chords for me.
Wait, did they confirm ASOS was going to be split up into 2 seasons? I thought they weren't committing to that just yet.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Confirmed. Details of the split are still unknown.
Series
Since they are talking about it in the other thread, I was curious. When do they reveal the Bran assassin plot? Is that Clash or Storm?
As someone who recently read all the books, many of the changes are frustrating to me. Having literally studied in my college days the difficulties of translating a book into a movie/TV show, I more likely to be forgiving of the changes they make.
I have noticed one thing though... Episodes like this are the most frustrating to me. They don't flow as well as others and perhaps it's a fault of the writer of the episode. Last week ran much better...there was a flow throughout it and it helps that they aren't jumping around to every location in Westeros for a minutes or two, pass on some bit of info, and cut to the next area.
I've also noticed that the show shines best when in the hands of certain writers and when they are patient enough to simply disallow certain locations. I really think the show would flow better if they simply alternated the story lines from week to week. Generally though, I think they are doing an OK job with the translation.
Random thought:
I have noticed one thing though... Episodes like this are the most frustrating to me. They don't flow as well as others and perhaps it's a fault of the writer of the episode. Last week ran much better...there was a flow throughout it and it helps that they aren't jumping around to every location in Westeros for a minutes or two, pass on some bit of info, and cut to the next area.
I've also noticed that the show shines best when in the hands of certain writers and when they are patient enough to simply disallow certain locations. I really think the show would flow better if they simply alternated the story lines from week to week. Generally though, I think they are doing an OK job with the translation.
Random thought:
It looks like the Reeds are going to be completely written out. I think (for this medium) this is a good decision but it makes me wonder about who will be with Bran and Rickon at year's end.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
Yeah, that scene was a letdown. Even just in how its set up, with the Renly getting ready to go to bed and taking off his armor versus in the books how its early morning and he's getting his armor on and getting ready for battle. It makes it even more shocking in the books, combined with how the shadow is just lurking on the walls of the tent and slits his throat. Versus the show, where Cat stares at the squid ink/smoke monster for what seems like forever before it moseys on over to kill Renly. With much of the CG on the show it always seems like the actors are very clearly not looking at the CG object which is kind of distracting.
I guess I pictured an actual shadow, more akin to Dracula's crazy shadow in Bram Stoker's Dracula versus a smoke monster. Its not a terrible scene but it felt pretty uninspired. I wonder what they originally had in mind, if they had to change it at the last minute.
Yeah, it is enough for me to know they tried. Again the non-book readers seem to be the least irritated, if at all, so no loss as far as keeping the show going.
series
I recall Tyrion figured it out towards the end of Storm, so we won't see it probably till middle of season 4!
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Would be the cliffhangers to cliff all cliffhangers
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