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[Speevy]

Preview question

Spoiler

What does Cersei do that pisses Tyrion off. My guesses are either she tells that Joffrey Sansa had her period, or she kills Tyrion's love interest. Maybe something to do with Bronne?

 

[Chuck Norris]

All these spoiler tags make it feel awfully silly that there isn't just one no spoiler thread and one all spoiler thread. Sure, some people midway through the books would have to stick to the no spoiler thread, but it would cut down on accidental spoilage by like a billion percent. (Yeah, I know there's an unmarked asoiaf spoiler thread, but mean an actual show thread. There's not nearly as much show talk in that thread, being, you know, not about the show)

Can't wait for the Neil Marshall and two Alan Taylor episodes to wash away the taste of whoever the hell did the last two.

The two threads don't make much sense to me

In one they pretend the books don't exist so they don't discuss anything past the current episode. But in this thread we are doing exactly the same thing but with spoiler tags. Why not just get rid of the spoiler tags?

 

[Speevy]

Because we have a book thread for that. No spoiler tags there.

Imagine if there was a hypothetical book series and you knew from reading that all but two of the characters would be killed. Someone made a show based on this series.

Then you told everyone watching the show who those survivors were before they even knew why or how the others would meet their end. It would kind of ruin the series, wouldn't it?

Especially since this whole series is like a tournament bracket. One group moves ahead, one moves back, one moves up, until only one remains.

 

[apana]

You know what, I don't care for Iceland, it's totally clashing with my imagined version of of the land beyond the wall. It doesn't make any sense honestly, who the hell can live in that place.

Yosemite in winter is the land beyond the wall.

Iceland works for me though, what we have seen in the show is beautiful.

They are completely fucking up Jon's storyline IMO.

It is making him look like a completely clueless emo douchebag.

Spoiler

not to mention, how the fuck is the Qhorin Halfhand scene supposed to carry any emotional weight now, since we've seen Qhorin for about 5 minutes total? They are basically ruining Jon's whole arc from the book to pack in more scenes with Ygritte, which is stupid because they can easily do all that stuff next season. They can't fix the Qhorin stuff next season though, and Jon is always going to seem like a weaker character, and a bit of a dumbass, after the changes they've made

I understand the motivation behind the changes, to play up a potential romance and get more screen time for a character, but it completely fucks up everything else.

Yeah this was a great episode but a shit adaptation of the books for more than one story arc. I hope they will redeem themselves somehow in the upcoming episodes. I really don't know what David and Dan are thinking. [ACOK]

Spoiler

Some of this just feels like laziness. "Oh well it is a pain in the ass to do a long drawn out chase scene in Iceland, fuck it lets just gut Jon's story".

 

[Chuck Norris]

Because we have a book thread for that. No spoiler tags there.

Imagine if there was a hypothetical book series and you knew from reading that all but two of the characters would be killed. Someone made a show based on this series.

Then you told everyone watching the show who those survivors were before they even knew why or how the others would meet their end. It would kind of ruin the series, wouldn't it?

Especially since this whole series is like a tournament bracket. One group moves ahead, one moves back, one moves up, until only one remains.

But obviously the majority of people reading this thread are those reading the spoilers anyway

Anyone not reading the spoilers would be best served using the no spoiler thread

 

[Snake]

That was an amazing episode. The pacing, whereby each character of interest got a progressive arc throughout the episode, was exactly what the show should be aiming for (as opposed to a more jumbled rush to get a single character in an episode). This episode popped.

As for *ACOK Spoilers*

Spoiler

the ending with Theon, I must strongly disagree with those who think the writers "screwed up." For the observant viewer, it is fairly obvious that it was the orphans, but to the observant book reader the same was also true 13 years ago. This was more obvious, it cannot be denied, but it was intentionally so. They didn't want to manipulate the audience over what is a 1-2 episode death cheat (which can cheapen real deaths), so they telegraphed it to give 50-80% of the viewers a clear heads up. I can't help but agree with that decision. And the event itself was still horrifying. For those in the know, Theon's shame and doubt about what he had done at the very end was the real focus. Not the fakeout.

 

[Gila]

Man, Charlie Chaplins granddaughter is so pretty

 

[Speevy]

But obviously the majority of people reading this thread are those reading the spoilers anyway

Anyone not reading the spoilers would be best served using the no spoiler thread

I disagree. Sure people might not like avoiding the spoiler tags like a minefield, but it beats being told what happens to Joffrey or Tyrion just out of the blue with no context.

 

[PhoenixDark]

The ending of Larry's review...haha oh man, I love this dude

 

[Chuck Norris]

I disagree. Sure people might not like avoiding the spoiler tags like a minefield, but it beats being told what happens to Joffrey or Tyrion just out of the blue with no context.

If there was a risk of that and you didn't know anything beyond the current episode, you would stick to the no spoiler thread. You come into the spoiler thread then you risk being spoiled.

 

[Speevy]

If there was a risk of that and you didn't know anything beyond the current episode, you would stick to the no spoiler thread. You come into the spoiler thread then you risk being spoiled.

But you do understand that this is about the show, and the creators of the show don't have to adhere strictly to the books.

There is a separate thread just about the books.

 

[Fuzzy]

But obviously the majority of people reading this thread are those reading the spoilers anyway

Anyone not reading the spoilers would be best served using the no spoiler thread

I kind of agree. I think this thread should be completely free of spoilers from anything after ACoK with all spoilers from that book not being tagged. It should be a Season 2/ACoK spoiler thread and if you don't want to be spoiled on S2/ACoK then you go to the non-spoiler thread. If someone wants to talk about ASoS/AFFC/ADwD then there are already other threads for that and they should leave. One problem is that most people read ACoK so long ago that it blurs with parts of ASoS and they can't remember where one ends and the other begins. But to tell the truth, I really don't have a problem with the way it is now as long as people keep marking what book their spoiler is from since I've only finished ASoS.

 

[Vespene]

ROFL Larry got mega trolled. I love his nameless friend on the phone!

 

[GorillaJu]

I haven't read any of the books and I use this thread and haven't been spoiled by anything. *shrug* Seems like it's working out okay as it is.

 

[Chuck Norris]

But you do understand that this is about the show, and the creators of the show don't have to adhere strictly to the books.

There is a separate thread just about the books.

I don't understand your point?

 

[PhoenixDark]

ROFL Larry got mega trolled. I love his nameless friend on the phone!

I was laughing throughout that review lol

 

[Speevy]

I don't understand your point?

If I say some random thing that happens in the Clash of Kings without spoiler tags, it might not even happen in the show? Also, people will and should be mad at me because they're watching this show.

 

[Chuck Norris]

If I say some random thing that happens in the Clash of Kings without spoiler tags, it might not even happen in the show? Also, people will and should be mad at me because they're watching this show.

But why would somebody be in an unmarked spoiler thread if they haven't read the book? You're making no sense

 

[Liberty4all]

Ok book readers, I can't take this anymore, was that Bran and Rickon or not?

Please just a yes or no, I don't want to be any more spoiled than that.

I haven't read the books but

Spoiler

its obvious its not bran and rickson. It's the 2 orphans that were sent from winterfell to that farm, or at least that's my guess. Hell until I read this thread the thought hadn't even crossed my mind that it was supposed to look like it might be bran and rickson.

 

[Speevy]

But why would somebody be in an unmarked spoiler thread if they haven't read the book? You're making no sense

Because this thread, which you think should be tag-free, is not about the book series.

It's about the show.

Not book, show.

The purpose of spoiler tags in this thread is so people can speculate about how the show relates to the books without ruining the ending for everyone.

 

[Buckethead]

Thoughts:

- Ygritte <3

- I don't know how I feel about Arya being stupid and telegraphing her past but I'm really enjoying the dynamic between her and Lord Tywin.

- Dear Lena, Stop ruining Cersei.

- Dear HBO, Stop letting Lena ruin Cersei.

- Liked the moment between Jaime and whatshisface. Then bam. Villainy.

 

[timetokill]

Only thing that concerns me is (re: Jon, CoK)

Spoiler

that I don't think they're going to be able to "fix" Jon's character this season. They're really making a mockery of his character development.

 

[Tess3ract]

Stop ruining the story HBO

Characterization is great but you're hacking teh story to pieces

 

[Fuzzy]

Because this thread, which you think should be tag-free, is not about the book series.

It's about the show.

Not book, show.

The purpose of spoiler tags in this thread is so people can speculate about how the show relates to the books without ruining the ending for everyone.

And his point is that those people shouldn't be in this thread (if spoilers weren't tagged) in the first place. I don't see a problem with that as long as spoilers were confined to ACoK in that hypothetical spoiler thread. People could discuss the differences between the book and show and speculate as to what those differences mean to the future of the show for this season the same way they do now but without spoiler tags. People who haven't read the book or don't want to be spoiled would still have the non-spoiler thread. What is really wrong with that?

 

[lacinius]

Spoiler

It was the added Bran and Rickon scene that made it obvious. Bran and Rickon would never have been talking about the two kids if they weren't going to be important. The Theon scene would have been fine by itself.

But that isn't quite what happened in the episode...

Spoiler

the opening scene establishes what has happened since the last episode, and that is it's now daylight, and they have been walking all night, and they are talking about how they should have brought more food but could not risk going to kitchens before they left, as they cut to Rickon scarfing down walnuts from the shell. You then see the long shot of the farm, and in the distance you hear the kids at the farm, then Bran mentions he knows this farm as this is where they sent the two orphan boys that were previously mentioned in the last episode. But, they are unsure if they should take the risk and approach the farm... meaning to risk going there to ask for food, since the walnuts are not going to be enough for anyone. Since Bran mentioned the two orphans, like any little kid would, Rickon then pipes up with how one of the orphans can climb trees better than anyone, and what's her name asks if they had ever seen her climb a tree? The walnuts were also previously established in the last episode.

Later in the episode Theon shows up at the farm but the dogs have lost the scent, and he is asking the farmer if he had seen the two Stark kids, and then one of the men calls Theon over and he has a bunch of broken walnut shells in his hand that were discovered near a pile of hay. Theon then sends the meister back to Winterfell, thinking the old man would be a problem if they were about to "deal" with the two Stark kids. Then at the end of the episode we are back at Winterfell and Theon strings up the charred bodies, and the reaction from everyone, and the visual size of the two bodies, is that they are those of the Stark kids... I interpreted the final look on Theon's face to mean just how bat-shit out of control everything was getting, mixed with perhaps a bit of remorse at having burned out the two kids that he grew up with.

So I don't see the sequence of events as being some huge blunder on the part of the writers. I will guess next episode everyone will affirm that and there won't be any hint to contradict what has happened, which is basically how it plays out in the book.

 

[blainethemono]

The only thing I don't quite understand is how (COK)

Spoiler

the walnut shells Dagmer found gave Theon the idea to begin with

They didn't actually go to the farm did they? Bran & Rickon I mean...I just didn't get what the realization was there

 

[lacinius]

Spoiler

The only thing I don't quite understand is how the walnut shells Dagmer found gave Theon the idea to begin with

They didn't actually go to the farm did they? Bran & Rickon I mean...I just didn't get what the realization was there

Spoiler

I don't think walnuts are something common farmers would have... being in the north they would have to be imported from the south, and so were a bit of a luxury most would not have like exotic spices and stuff.

 

[blainethemono]

I don't think walnuts are something common farmers would have... being in the north they would have to be imported from the south, and so were a bit of a luxury most would not have like exotic spices and stuff.

But what does that have to do with it? Dagmer sees these walnut shells and shows them to Theon and a light bulb goes off in his head? What's the point of the walnut shells?

I'm sure its something obvious that i'm just not realizing, I just cant see the connection

edit: (COK)

Spoiler

I guess it would make more sense for viewers that fell for it. If the viewer thinks the bodies at the end were really Rickon & Bran then the walnut shells kind of make sense in a way, but for the people who realize that the bodies were two other kids, I really don't see it. How do they come to form the plan to use two other kids after seeing the shells...it makes no sense to me. And fuck I should have spoilered my first post about this too

 

[Steelyuhas]

Where's Greatjon? He was prominent in the end of last season, and I don't remember seeing him at all this season.

He will not be in this season apparently. :/

Light ACOK spoilers in context to the Greatjon not being there

Spoiler

In the book, it states that Robb has him break off with a some men to raid mines in the Westerlands I believe.

ACOK and ASOS

Spoiler

So, let's take bets on whether Cat is about to cut off Jaime's hand. And then further bets on how angry book readers will be about that change if so.

serious spoiler

Spoiler

I seriously doubt that will happen because it is an important plot point that the Starks were not responsible for Jaime's maiming, and he bears no serious ill will to the Starks.

So in tonight's episode, Tywin mentioned the "war of the five kings.". Who are they exactly? Joffrey, Stannis, Renly, Robb, and Balon? Do people besides the north even know of Balon's intentions? And wouldn't they scratch Renly off?

Yes, those are the five kings, everyone learns about Balon's attack fairly quickly. The war in its completion is referred to as the War of Five Kings despite Renly's early demise.

I'll post my impressions/thoughts about the episode tomorrow.

 

[LiQuid!]

Kinda shocked how off the rails this episode is going from the book but the changes they are making are sogood.gif. All the Ygritte stuff, the new Xaro/Pyat Pree stuff and holyfuck the Arya/Tywin stuff are making this so much more layered and interesting for book readers than the first season which, aside from a few scenes that are heavily implied to have happened off-page, pretty much follows the book to the word.

 

[PhoenixDark]

He will not be in this season apparently. :/

Light ACOK spoilers in context to the Greatjon not being there

Spoiler

In the book, it states that Robb has him break off with a some men to raid mines in the Westerlands I believe.

ACOK

Spoiler

Actually the Greatjon assaults the Crag alongside Robb in ACOK. He has been written out of this season apparently, and replaced with Bolton.

I'm guessing Robb will get injured in the next episode, and perhaps we'll learn the show Jeyne is a Westerling afterall.

 

[lacinius]

edit: (COK)

Spoiler

I guess it would make more sense for viewers that fell for it. If the viewer thinks the bodies at the end were really Rickon & Bran then the walnut shells kind of make sense in a way, but for the people who realize that the bodies were two other kids, I really don't see it. How do they come to form the plan to use two other kids after seeing the shells...it makes no sense to me. And fuck I should have spoilered my first post about this too

Spoiler

I think that's pretty much it since the books are not required reading for the series. The walnut shells establish that they must have went to the farm, and the Stark's were somewhere hiding, which is why the dogs lost the scent since it did not go any further than the farm. They couldn't show the rest in the episode given what I will guess is going to be a big reveal in the final episode.

I'm guessing what then happened is rather than look for the Stark kids Theon just lit the place on fire and then dragged the two burnt corpses back to Winterfell without really checking if it even was them... so even Theon thinks he has killed the two Stark kids, given the final look on his face. Probably won't know for sure until the final episode.

 

[Chuck Norris]

I don't think we're ever going to get crazy bitch Cersei. She's far more sympathetic in the show

 

[McNei1y]

I had to rewatch the pilot again tonight just because its bee awhile... i really loved all of the family interactions between each character. I cant even imagine what jon would be like if it werent for the wall

 

[Fuzzy]

Spoiler

I'm guessing what then happened is rather than look for the Stark kids Theon just lit the place on fire and then dragged the two burnt corpses back to Winterfell without really checking if it even was them... so even Theon thinks he has killed the two Stark kids, given the final look on his face. Probably won't know for sure until the final episode.

I think I would actually like that.

 

[Snake]

R.I.P. Spice King.

You were just too beautiful for this world~

 

[Speevy]

Spoiler

I'm guessing what then happened is rather than look for the Stark kids Theon just lit the place on fire and then dragged the two burnt corpses back to Winterfell without really checking if it even was them... so even Theon thinks he has killed the two Stark kids, given the final look on his face. Probably won't know for sure until the final episode.

I like your thinking, but that would actually make Theon pretty dumb too.

 

[Steelyuhas]

ACOK

Spoiler

Actually the Greatjon assaults the Crag alongside Robb in ACOK. He has been written out of this season apparently, and replaced with Bolton.

I'm guessing Robb will get injured in the next episode, and perhaps we'll learn the show Jeyne is a Westerling afterall.

ACOK

Spoiler

According to the song of ice and fire wiki, Umber participates in the Battle of Oxcross, and then splits off capturing gold mines at Castamere, Nunn's Deep, and Pendric Hills. He better be back in season 3 though.

You would assume so, but they stated that he went to accept the surrender, not storm the castle. This episode reminded me of it, and I will make a semi-lengthly post about it tomorrow, but my main complaint about this season (I've really liked it) is their portrayal of the war, especially Robb's actions.

 

[Victarion]

WTF!

ACOK

Spoiler

Bran and Rickon were supposed to be in the crypt beneath the Winterfell, not running around in the wild. I guess we would never see the moment they come out of the crypt and see the Winterfell in ruins... Would have been a sad and epic moment.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

Great episode. Yeah I really doubt that was the Stark kids at the end. That all happened ridiculously quick. Still though, those were clearly burnt bodies of children and damn I didn't expect Theon to be that mad. I'm assuming it was the kids from the farm that the Stark boys were talking about. A lot of weird exchanges at the end that just breeds moar questions. I can't tell if Tyrion was sympathizing with Cersie or wanted to hit that..lol..Jon Snow you imbecile...Jaime, you ass. They really should take one of his arms or legs to shut him the hell up.


Also a note regarding the thread..I was hoping people wouldn't mention untagged things that have been changed from the book to show as I was planning to start the books this summer. I won't bitch or anything but it would be a nice courtesy. I imagine there are a few others in the same boat that haven't read the books and want to.

 

[Duki]

what the fuck was that shit with jon

and why the fuck did they have jaime do that, thats ooc

and why the fuck did catelyn cok/asos

Spoiler

do the give me my sword but end up freeing jaime thing before finding out bran and rickon were "dead". the whole point is that that makes her snap and lose her damn mind smfh

great fuckin episode tho

 

[Pkaz01]

Regarding Arya's storyline

Acok spoilers

Spoiler

So its obvious now from the descriptions of the last episode that Arya isn't going to escape like she did in the books and she for sure won't meet Roose. I think she is just going to escape after the Weasel soup. my favorite part of her storyline was the dialogue between her and jaqen when he names him and her escape when she remembers Ned in the Godswood and says fuck it im out. Hope they keep that guard killing with the coin but I doubt it at this point they'll just have Jaqen give her the coin and have her run away. Totally takes away from her character though because now she escapes thanks to jaqen rather than doing it on her own like in the books

 

[Textured Monk]

and why the fuck did catelyn cok/asos

Spoiler

do the give me my sword but end up freeing jaime thing before finding out bran and rickon were "dead". the whole point is that that makes her snap and lose her damn mind smfh

ACOK

Spoiler

She knows if Jaime's killed she'll never get her daughters back, and she's not going to be able to keep him alive through the night. It may be to make her more sympathetic by releasing him when there's no other choice instead of letting him go when she's distraught and desperate because of what's happening with Bran and Rickon.

 

[Cigol]

We need a separate thread for grumpy so-and-so's who think the second season is slowly but surely turning into unrecognisable shit. It's taking too many unnecessary and criminally unrewarding deviations from the source material. I had high expectations for the first season which were rarely met yet I still thoroughly enjoyed it and the teasers for season two got me hyped as hell - but aside from one or two scenes in each episode it is much too fractured and piece meal for my liking.

Reading this thread is an eye opener since there's a lot of people still raving about the show, in particular scenes and changes I personally didn't like, and to make me feel even more out of touch the stuff they don't like is more often than not the stuff I do like! Bah humbug.

All Charles Dance lovers should watch Ali G InDaHouse.

 

[Duane Cunningham]

So who does Tywin think Arya is, then? He revealed that he knows she's only "posing as a commoner", but I guess he's still not thinking Arya Stark.

 

[Lothar]

We need a separate thread for grumpy so-and-so's who think the second season is slowly but surely turning into unrecognisable shit. It's taking too many unnecessary and criminally unrewarding deviations from the source material. I had high expectations for the first season which were rarely met yet I still thoroughly enjoyed it and the teasers for season two got me hyped as hell - but aside from one or two scenes in each episode it is much too fractured and piece meal for my liking.

Reading this thread is an eye opener since there's a lot of people still raving about the show, in particular scenes and changes I personally didn't like, and to make me feel even more out of touch the stuff they don't like is more often than not the stuff I do like! Bah humbug.

All Charles Dance lovers should watch Ali G InDaHouse.

I'm just hoping that the changes are because they're trying to rush through the story since they only have 10 episodes to do the entire book and maybe Season 3 will be better. So little Varys this season is really inexcusable. Same for so little attention being paid to Stannis being five days away with 200 ships. More emphasis has been placed on Ygritte making fun of Jon for being a virgin than the upcoming battle, it's bizarre.

 

[Massa]

I'm just hoping that the changes are because they're trying to rush through the story since they only have 10 episodes to do the entire book and maybe Season 3 will be better. So little Varys this season is really inexcusable. Same for so little attention being paid to Stannis being five days away with 200 ships. More emphasis has been placed on Ygritte making fun of Jon for being a virgin than the upcoming battle, it's bizarre.

They can't cover every ongoing thread in every episode. Stannis will be a big focus soon enough.

 

[Lothar]

They can't cover every ongoing thread in every episode. Stannis will be a big focus soon enough.

They could if they cut out some of the crappy newly added scenes.

Take out

Spoiler

the Bran scene for example and the episode instantly becomes better and the ending has more impact.

Take out

Spoiler

Dany being an asshole to Jorah for no good reason, Jorah talking to Quaithe, and the Qarth clusterfuck since none of those scenes were interesting IMO and just have warlocks send her a note saying they have her dragons.

 

[Blastoise]

I'm more pissed of about how HBO's Agritte says " You know nothing Jon Snow" than anything else. God damn Roy Dotirce and his accent!

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Tonks naked.