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Game of Thrones - Season 2 - George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
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I mean the areas shown in the show, obviously, smart guy.
So you just don't, like, know about the type of people who live up north or what?
There are tons of hunting/gatherer types that live in the cold wastes, surviving on breaking ice and walrus/seal killing or fishing. Build themselves little huts or igloos, huddle around fires, wear tons of furs like the people in this show do.
Although the depiction is different than the book in some ways, this is actually exactly how I pictured the people would look when they come from lands that are almost always in a state of winter. It's a hard, cruel life. All the more reason to flee south.
I pictured a very woodsland forest that is littered with trees beyond the wall, but GOD DAMN, it looks amazing up there. I'm okay that they changed the scenery, it looks marvelous.
Ygritte + Jon are amazing together, almost as great as Tywin and Arya, but I'm kinda befuddled how trusting Tywin is with this 'serving girl'. COK
I loved the changes made with Danys story, it works perfectly and I totally forgot about the death of the 13! One think though is that they are making Dany and Mormant happen kinda to quickly for my liking and Dany comes off too weak in many scenes.
Hodor continues to hodor, which is great, I am very curious how that actor prepares. Oh, Tyrion and Cersie
Ygritte + Jon are amazing together, almost as great as Tywin and Arya, but I'm kinda befuddled how trusting Tywin is with this 'serving girl'. COK
Cat frees jamie after finding out that her sons are dead, to save Sansa + arya. I don't think the reasoning to release jamie to save him from the karstarks is stronger than this.
I loved the changes made with Danys story, it works perfectly and I totally forgot about the death of the 13! One think though is that they are making Dany and Mormant happen kinda to quickly for my liking and Dany comes off too weak in many scenes.
Hodor continues to hodor, which is great, I am very curious how that actor prepares.
Oh, Tyrion and Cersie
IIRC, in the beginning of the book when tyrion comes to Kings Landing, he confronts cersie that he knows about the accusations and she slaps him like 3 or 4 times. I was wondering why they held it back but it makes sense now, the scene they had together was great.
The changes in this episode really annoyed me where in the last episode I loved them.
The scene with Jamie and Catelyn was way way too rushed. It should have been double if not triple the length. That was one of my favorite scenes from the book. They butchered it severely.
I'm not liking Dany's story at all. Is any of that necessary? Why couldn't she just have a note saying her dragons are in the House of the Undying?
I thought the House of the Undying was going to be this episode. As well as Arya giving the third name. I was expecting this episode to be huge.
Pushing all of those things back makes me think the last three episodes will be equally rushed.
Theon.
The scene with Jamie and Catelyn was way way too rushed. It should have been double if not triple the length. That was one of my favorite scenes from the book. They butchered it severely.
That was the scene where you began to sympathize with Jamie in the book! Now he's worse than ever. I also prefer Catelyn freeing Jaime because she learned that Bran and Rickon were dead. She was distraught and made up her mind to get the girls back at all cost. It was more emotional that way.
I'm not liking Dany's story at all. Is any of that necessary? Why couldn't she just have a note saying her dragons are in the House of the Undying?
I thought the House of the Undying was going to be this episode. As well as Arya giving the third name. I was expecting this episode to be huge.
Instead nothing really impactful happened.
Theon.
It was telegraphed too much and also too rushed. You should not have even seen Bran in this episode so you would be wondering where they went. Everyone knows they didn't go into that house.
Pollux
Member
series spoiler
I'm not going to lie, I'm going to be pissed when Tywin dies. I want a spin off show where he stay alive and him and Arya just shoot the shit for 30 minutes or so. It could come on right after GOT at 10-1030 and they can talk about the episode, in character, and give some background information on the characters Would be much better than "Veep".
bengraven
Member
This is mostly in regards to the previews for the next few weeks of episodes, so spoilers for Clash of Kings and the show:
I don't get it. They're cutting parts of Clash to fit into this season, yet drawing some things out? According to the previews listed in the OP, Dany won't get to the House until the final episode as well as Theon in Winterfell lasts until the end of the season. Meanwhile other storylines keep going at the same speed, see: Tyrion and the coming tide. It just reeks of fluffing out stories to keep our minds on characters who have smaller parts in this book.
It's been a while since I read COK, but I always imagined at least some shrubs or small trees around the Fist. The Frostfangs though? Isn't it a giant frozen glacier/mountain range? And when was the last time it wasn't below freezing up there? Makes sense that there wouldn't be any growth.
I always thought that the Haunted Woods ended sort of abruptly once you got far enough north. But in any event, this actually makes tons of sense geologically. If you have a world that is such that the further north you go, the more persistently cold it is, then there's actually a real world limit on how far north trees can go. It's called a Tree Line and it makes perfect sense.
this is what it looks like at the limit of the line
On the ending of the episode, it would have been nice if they had (aCoK spoilers):
Just acknowledged that Bran and Rickon were alive. They weren't going to full many people as it was, and if they had cut right to a shot of Bran and Rickon, people would have honestly been fulled for that brief moment since they wouldn't have had enough time to think about it.
I do wish they had done something like this though...
I do wish they had done something like this though...
I don't think they fooled many people but yeah, Theons chapter after he killed hte two kids is great
I don't have a problem with it because they're currently in the Frostfangs and not down in the forest where Craster was.
bodyofanamerican
Member
ASOS spoilers
Seriously, the awkward insertion of Roose into every scene with Jeyne is fucking fantastic. That awkward, wordless turnaround and walk away was GREAT.
IAmtheFMan
Member
Where's Greatjon? He was prominent in the end of last season, and I don't remember seeing him at all this season.
[series spoiler]
Not sure what you're talking about, because at least as far as I've read (1/3 of the way through ADWD) the Thirteen are still alive and well.
I think Alan Taylor has 2 of the last 3 eps so we should be good on directors from here on out.
On the last scene (big COK spoiler)
On the last scene (big COK spoiler)
I maintain that they did it great. But then again I never believed in the books that it was them either. Probably because I flipped ahead and saw that the last chapter was a Bran chapter.
The Elite
BOSS
I'm in the same position as you and thought the same thing.
The Elite
BOSS
Just wait a week
IAmtheFMan
Member
Total ACOK
Don't you guys think that by refusing to say whether it's them or not in and of itself is a dead give away that they're not? If they were dead, we'd all be saying "yeah they're dead, get over it."
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Great episode.
ACOK
ASOS
ACOK
It's pretty obvious that it's not Bran and Rickon, but then again it was only slightly less obvious in the books.
ASOS
It would actually be pretty bad. Not in the no-Vargo Hoat way, but why would Catelyn maim Jaime when she knows anything done to him will be done to her daughters? That's why she's protecting him. It would actually be a pretty stupid change. She's going to let him go so he won't be killed.
What...you sure? I feel like I remember that happening.
Pollux
Member
brianjones
Member
ive read the books and i dont even know what her deal is
(aSoS spoilers):
Yeah, that is awesome. At this point, he obviously knows Robb has a thing for her, and all he's thinking "Don't go and fuck us over for this girl". I can't tell if he has started scheming yet, since in the books, I'm pretty sure that happens after the Battle of Blackwater and Robb's romantic shenanigans at the Crag, as he knows Robb is going to lose the war. But the show has me thinking differently, with how they had him offer to have Ramsay take back Winterfell. I can't wait to see how the show has him reacting to Robb's marriage to Jeyne.
Tywin may get all of the love, but Roose is one hell of a Magnificent Bastard, and I sincerely hope they don't ruin any of the surprise of the RW. It's been great so far how they've handled his character, as he doesn't seem like a stereotypical scheming bad-guy, but rather a cold, calculating "Win at all costs" advisor to Robb. In the books, I remember thinking something was off about him from pretty early on due to the fact that his being called the "Leech lord" and his castle being "The Dreadfort" don't really inspire much confidence in his character, so this is a welcome surprise.
Tywin may get all of the love, but Roose is one hell of a Magnificent Bastard, and I sincerely hope they don't ruin any of the surprise of the RW. It's been great so far how they've handled his character, as he doesn't seem like a stereotypical scheming bad-guy, but rather a cold, calculating "Win at all costs" advisor to Robb. In the books, I remember thinking something was off about him from pretty early on due to the fact that his being called the "Leech lord" and his castle being "The Dreadfort" don't really inspire much confidence in his character, so this is a welcome surprise.
This is wrong. (Cok)
When they said Bran and Rickon were dead in the books, there was zero indication that they weren't telling the truth. The first time you heard it was Varys telling Tyrion. Really bad writing on tonight's episode.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Only if you weren't paying attention. ACOK
You can tell from the last page of Theon's chapter before he "kills" them that they aren't dead.
Yup.
I disagree completely (COK)
almost the exact same thing happened in the book, they went to a homestead with two kids, Reek in this case has some Stark pendants or something, Theon realizes what he's suggesting, says he knows where the kids are and sends Maester Luwin away. It's extremely close to what we see on the show, except for the lack of Reek.
You learn that Bran and Rickon died on the first page of a Tyrion chapter. Then there was a long chapter with Catelyn talking to Jaime after she learned. And you find out that it was fake on the last page of a Theon chapter. Everyone thought they were really dead for a good while.
It was the added Bran and Rickon scene that made it obvious. Bran and Rickon would never have been talking about the two kids if they weren't going to be important. The Theon scene would have been fine by itself.
ASOS
Yeah, the "Catelyn cuts off his hand" theory was brought up long before this season even started, and I completely dismissed it for that reason. There is just no believable way that she would have any trust in him freeing her daughters if she cuts his hand off. There's little enough to begin with, but sending him back with no hand would be more likely to get her daughters killed than freed.
And they can't change how he gets free to some other way, because then Brienne isn't coming along. There just isn't any wiggle room here.
And they can't change how he gets free to some other way, because then Brienne isn't coming along. There just isn't any wiggle room here.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
ACOK
All the characters did, but if you read closely it's pretty obvious they were never killed.
They are completely fucking up Jon's storyline IMO.
It is making him look like a completely clueless emo douchebag.
I understand the motivation behind the changes, to play up a potential romance and get more screen time for a character, but it completely fucks up everything else.
It is making him look like a completely clueless emo douchebag.
not to mention, how the fuck is the Qhorin Halfhand scene supposed to carry any emotional weight now, since we've seen Qhorin for about 5 minutes total? They are basically ruining Jon's whole arc from the book to pack in more scenes with Ygritte, which is stupid because they can easily do all that stuff next season. They can't fix the Qhorin stuff next season though, and Jon is always going to seem like a weaker character, and a bit of a dumbass, after the changes they've made
I understand the motivation behind the changes, to play up a potential romance and get more screen time for a character, but it completely fucks up everything else.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Regardless of the small issues i have with the story and writing in other areas, Jamie and Theon are so perfect I can let most other stuff slide.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I agree, but there's time to right the ship before the season ends.
There was always a possibility but there was certainly nothing in that chapter to make it obvious before they went to the Mill. You knew they had kids there but that's different than characters actually discussing the kids - basically telling you straight out that they're going to be important. You didn't even know their ages or if they looked anything like Bran and Rickon. Again, if they had merely showed the kids in the Theon scene like they did, it would have been fine. Bran and Rickon talking about them is a dead giveaway.
Telosfortelos
Advocate for the People
That change to Jaime's character joins Renly as a gay stereotype, Shae as completely unlikable and without charm, and Littlefinger as a purely evil whoremonger (as opposed to an investor who happens to own brothers and is a bit more grey in character) as the most annoying, unnecessary, and just bad changes from the book.
And I thought omnipresent warlocks were bad. Damn that Jaime scene bothers me.
And I thought omnipresent warlocks were bad. Damn that Jaime scene bothers me.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Then again, re: Tyrion and King's Landing ACOK
Where's the damn chain????
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
ACOK
Theon's all but given up hope that he's ever going to find them, then all of a sudden Reek produces 2 Stark emblems or something, then all of a sudden Theon gets an idea and says he knows where they are. Pretty clear he was up to something. It is more obvious in the show, but it was also pretty obvious in the book.
You can add Joffrey to the list with the scene with the whores. And Dany screaming nonstop about fire and blood.
Weirdly since they've turned so many characters into caricatures, they've actually added gray to Tywin and Cersei making those two characters even deeper than in the books.
Seriously, how does this imply that Bran and Rickon are not where Reek said they would be? What led you to believe they didn't find them?
Reek doesn't say he knows where they are, he just hands Theon a bag with some of the stark kid's clothes and a couple of metal emblems that the hounds found somewhere, and then Theon says "I know where they went". It's pretty clear in hindsight, but kind of subtle at first.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
What would lead you to think that all of a sudden he figured out where they were by pulling out Stark insignia or that he magically knew where they were all along. It's not clear what he's doing, but it's pretty obvious that they're up to some deception.
1. EVERYONE in a tundra gets blue balls.
2. Mormont's sigil is the bear. Now you know why.
Attackthebase
Member
At this point, HBO may very well push second book material into the third season. It seems like that'll be the ideal way to do it, or the series will have some weird rushing happen. And who wants that?
Plus HBO needs to give Martin a few more years, so he can begin to write that next book.
Plus HBO needs to give Martin a few more years, so he can begin to write that next book.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I thought the Mountain looked pretty good this episode. Of course they kept him in the shadows the whole time.
Don't highlight any of these spoilers unless you've read CoK.
Heh, not true. You're remembering wrong.
Quoting from the book
Heh, not true. You're remembering wrong.
Quoting from the book
“M’lord prince.” Reek urged his horse near. “Might be them Starks never came this way. If I was them, I would have gone north and east, maybe. To the Umbers. Good Stark men, they are. But their lands are a long way. The boys will shelter someplace nearer. Might be I know where.”
Theon looked at him suspiciously. “Tell me.”
“You know that old mill, sitting lonely on the Acorn Water? We stopped there when I was being dragged to Winterfell a captive. The miller’s wife sold us hay for our horses while that old knight clucked over her brats. Might be the Starks are hiding there.”
Theon knew the mill. He had even tumbled the miller’s wife a time or two. There was nothing special about it, or her. “Why there? There are a dozen villages and holdfasts just as close.”
Amusement shone in those pale eyes. “Why? Now that’s past knowing. But they’re there, I have a feeling.”
Theon looked at him suspiciously. “Tell me.”
“You know that old mill, sitting lonely on the Acorn Water? We stopped there when I was being dragged to Winterfell a captive. The miller’s wife sold us hay for our horses while that old knight clucked over her brats. Might be the Starks are hiding there.”
Theon knew the mill. He had even tumbled the miller’s wife a time or two. There was nothing special about it, or her. “Why there? There are a dozen villages and holdfasts just as close.”
Amusement shone in those pale eyes. “Why? Now that’s past knowing. But they’re there, I have a feeling.”
Cok
I can buy Jaime killing his cousin for a chance at escape, he would do anything to get away so I dont have a problem with that. Only that his conversation with Cat is condensed.
They are really dropping the ball on Jon's story line though, the Ygritte stuff could wait til next year they didn't have to shoe-horn in two escape scenes and ruin his interaction with Halfhand.
The Dany stuff is actually pretty good because her arc in the book was dreadfully boring and uneventful besides the house of the undying and meeting Belwas/Arstan.
They are really dropping the ball on Jon's story line though, the Ygritte stuff could wait til next year they didn't have to shoe-horn in two escape scenes and ruin his interaction with Halfhand.
The Dany stuff is actually pretty good because her arc in the book was dreadfully boring and uneventful besides the house of the undying and meeting Belwas/Arstan.
Telosfortelos
Advocate for the People
COK
No, Reek tells Theon that they should check the mill, and earlier Theon talked about the two miller's children whose mom he fucked. The implication was that Reek was suggesting they use the two children. It went something like that, I don't have the book in front of me.
Edit: Lothar with the specifics ^ ^ ^ Thanks.
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