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Game of Thrones - Season 2 - George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire - Sundays on HBO
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RPGCrazied
Member
Last scene was so disturbing.
So you point out the show feels rushed and want them to rush through it even faster?
Like I said, they can't cover every single thread in each episode. Replacing all of Dany's scenes with Stannis would have been something, but you can't just pick them apart like that.Hold the phone...I thought she simply was adapting to the situation and simply being selfish for her own betterment...Is that not the case?
As for your problem.
I don't think it matters. Whether or not she is Tywin's agent, her support for Sansa would have nothing to do with her mission of keeping tabs on Tyrion.
The fuck?
How can ANYONE feel bad for Jamie? Jesus.
I hope he, Cersei and Joffrey die a horrible painful death. I'd feel cheated otherwise. You can add Theon to that list too.
Dutch Gronk
Banned
Theon can die a fiery death.
I think he knows who she is at this point , Littlefinger might have even told him on the sly. Just a hunch.
There is no way. The Starks still have Jaime, which is a huge sore point for Tywin right now. If he realized that he had Arya, you think he would just keep letting her play her little game? I don't think he knows who she is exactly, but I'm sure her being Arya is the farthest thing from his mind, since he would expect her to be in King's Landing, and if she wasn't, he would expect Tyrion or Cersei to let him know.
You don't think Littlefinger told him Arya was gone? I think Tywin knows or has a hunch it's her and he thinks he has her well in hand and there's no danger of her escaping. He knows that she's highborn and from the north which would give her some value as a hostage in any event, and he's still letting her pose as "cupbearer."
COK book spoilers
I think Arya is going to get revealed at some point by Tywin or Littlefinger which is what is going to prompt her escape and her using her last "death" to get Jaquen to help her. It doesn't look like the northmen are coming to Harrenhal in TV versoin but I could be wrong.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Thru - ASOS Spoilers
I really don't like how they're changing Jon's storyline either. They're sacrifising Jon's development with Quorin for Jon's development with Ygritte which doesn't make sense, since Jon will probably be with Ygritte for most of next season. All the while they're making Jon look like an idiot rather than having him learn anything. Jon and Quorin trying to evade the wildlings was great in the book. There's time to right the ship, but I don't think it will happen. If he can escape the wildlings next episode and join back up with Quorin it could still work, but I don't think it's going to happen.
Also they're chaning some things and taking for granted that the change works because of what happens in the book. It makes no sense why Quorin even left Jon in the show without his explanation.
And about Shae, I don't think she's actually Tywin's agent. She doesn't have anything to do with him until Tyrion's trial. At least that's how I always took it. Still, I'm not really sure she did why she did what she did.
Also they're chaning some things and taking for granted that the change works because of what happens in the book. It makes no sense why Quorin even left Jon in the show without his explanation.
And about Shae, I don't think she's actually Tywin's agent. She doesn't have anything to do with him until Tyrion's trial. At least that's how I always took it. Still, I'm not really sure she did why she did what she did.
Well, my theory is based on Littlefinger tipping Tywin off that Arya is missing or even that she is Arya. If Littlefinger kept quiet about the whole thing I would agree that it's unlikely.
Duane Cunningham
Member
I feel like Tywin would want to know immediately who she was, though, once he figured she's a noble. I mean, it seems like he'd think she could be a valuable hostage... a Karstark or something. Even if she doesn't turn out to be the jackpot of Arya Stark, he knows at this point that she's a northern highborn daughter, and he's at war with the north. Finding out who she is immediately seems like it would be his highest priority.
Yeah, that makes me think he knows.
Oh, and speaking of Karstarks, so did Karstark's son that he was so pissed about get strangled off camera during Jamie's escape?
Yeah, that makes me think he knows.
Oh, and speaking of Karstarks, so did Karstark's son that he was so pissed about get strangled off camera during Jamie's escape?
The Elite
BOSS
I have to agree with a lot of the development issues here. Especially in regards to Jon.
No, he was the guard that Jaime killed. It didn't happen off-camera.
The thing about that is how many northern girls are on the kingsroad leaving kingslanding? How would a Karstark daughter end up in Kings Landing?
I think the only thing holding him back is not knowing Arya is missing or else it would be completely obvious. I would love to see what would happen to their relationship if he found out. Would his respect for her grow or diminish?
Duane Cunningham
Member
Well... that makes it even more mysterious, I'd think. And more obvious that the only person it could be is Stark's daughter. Yeah, I hope there's a scene after she's gone where he discovers Arya is missing and then it dawns on him, or something. Either that, or as some other people have said, he knows now.
Man, one awesome thing about the show starting to diverge is that we book readers can speculate just like the series newbies.
Aaaaah. That's right, I forgot Jamie killed the guard, too.
I don't think he knows how or where or why she became a prisoner at Harrenhal. Lorch would have had to mention it before he died and he seemed pretty stupid so he probably didn't say anything. And I think, in times of war, it would make sense that there might be some random high born children wandering the countryside.
With Arya's fondness for warrior women revealed to Tywin, he might be putting together in his mind a story where she is the daughter of a minor lord whose father and brothers have gone off to war, while she is stuck at home, against her wishes. She then runs away to try and join Robb's army, gets captured and ends up at Harrenhal. Assuming that Tywin doesn't know that Arya is missing, that story would make much more sense to him than this being Ned Stark's daughter.
This is why it's absurd. Even if he doesn't think it's Arya, having a child of noble blood of the north would be very advantageous. He would have her locked down and interrogated.
High born /= royalty
It just means she was born to a lord. There are tons of minor lords, most of whom are barely a step above commoners, to someone like Tywin Lannister.
Great episode throughout.. very impressed with the Jow Snow and Ygritte stuff. I also liked the twist in Qarth. Can't wait to see how they handle the House of the Undying.
She's already lied about a number of things. There's no really no way to confirm she's actually from the North.
She's already lied about a number of things. There's no really no way to confirm she's actually from the North.
Tywin not realizing Arya is missing is the only explanation for why he has yet to make the connection. Tyrion didn't know either when he first arrived in King's Landing.
The only problem with this scenario is that we just had a scene last week between LF/Tywin that cut off just as LF was explaining Tyrion's offer to Catelyn. You would think the natural progression of that conversation would be telling Tywin that they don't actually have both Stark daughters to trade.
So, either: a) LF withheld that information to protect Arya's identity, once he realized she was Tywin's cupbearer; or b) Tywin does in fact know that Arya's missing, and strongly suspects his cupbearer, which is why he's constantly needling her to see if she missteps in her story.
The only problem with this scenario is that we just had a scene last week between LF/Tywin that cut off just as LF was explaining Tyrion's offer to Catelyn. You would think the natural progression of that conversation would be telling Tywin that they don't actually have both Stark daughters to trade.
So, either: a) LF withheld that information to protect Arya's identity, once he realized she was Tywin's cupbearer; or b) Tywin does in fact know that Arya's missing, and strongly suspects his cupbearer, which is why he's constantly needling her to see if she missteps in her story.
The more I have watched this season, the more I realize how dense the books were. Now I know why I read through 4,000 pages in a month (whole doing my thesis)! The books are just that rich in plot elements. I am now wondering if the less dense meta/plot structures of AFFC and ADWD (books 4 and 5) will make producing seasons four and five easier. My thinking being that their slower pace will allow the series to focus on key events better.
I'm still surprised so many people listened to it book-on-tape. I read too fast to listen to the sloooooow pace that provides. I love Ygritte's accent. She's damn fine.
The Lamonster
Member
I'm starting to worry they'll leave Tyrion's (ACOK)
out of the story.
chain
they will
Just popping it to say I can't wait to get caught up in the discussion here in a week or so.
I just got HBO Go and started the series from the beginning over the weekend. I'm now up to S1 E7.
I'm really enjoying the characters so far. The midget guy is so awesome, what an incredible actor.
I just got HBO Go and started the series from the beginning over the weekend. I'm now up to S1 E7.
I'm really enjoying the characters so far. The midget guy is so awesome, what an incredible actor.
Also enjoyed seeing the Legolas looking dude get 'crowned' last episode. What a brutal way to go out. And his sister is sooooo fucking hot.
"Legolas dude", hahaha.
The Lamonster
Member
ha @ midget guy and Legolas dude. You should stay out of these threads until you're caught up.
They haven't been too clear on it in the show, but in the book doesn't this entire section occur in a mountain pass between valleys? This mountainous section is all unlivable, and above the tree line, but in the valleys below there are forests with game, rivers with fish and shelter.
haha, sorry I'm awful with names.
I know midget guy is a Lanister, but I can never remember his first name. I know they call him the Imp, but that's about all I can remember.
And yeah I'm gonna stay out until I'm caught up.
So am I the only one who was bothered that Jaime killed his cousin, making him a kinslayer? I know its a small change that won't affect the tv audience, but fuck it annoys me. What really worries me about this one is its the first concrete example I could point to of the writers really not understanding the source material. Its made abundantly clear in the books that kin-slaying is amongst the absolute worst crimes you can commit, along with kings slaying and breaking guest rights. (slight series)
, and he would never kill Cleos Frey/Alton Lanister without extreme provocation.
Cat may call Jaime a man without honour, but this is FAR from the case
Forsaken82
Member
I think you might be overthinking it.
(ACOK)
Pretty sure Theon know's they aren't Bran and Rickon, but his crew doesn't. The walnuts were enough evidence to say the kids were there. His look at the end is simply "wtf, i just killed innocent children, what have I become" At least thats the way I see it.. In the book he over tars the heads to prevent anyone from recognizing them because he knew they weren't them.
This is so strange. Did people forget that he tried to kill a child?
Jamie is my favorite character. I felt that his killing was a little out of character, but it could go either way. Seriously, wait till next season. They will dig in more, (they actually gave you a taste of his thoughts in the scene with Catelyn), and it will be wonderful.
Cersei is actually sympathetic in the show. Lots of good stuff with her tonight. Question is if they're making her too much so...
SoS spoilers
No, but we know that he did that strictly to protect his relationship with Cersei. Not excusing, just explaining the difference.
Well, to Jaime anyway.
Well, to Jaime anyway.
Nah, we just learn more about him in SOS. Plus I was gonna write more, but didn't haha.
Pollux
Member
You don't mean that. He gave us a naked Tonks after all.
He tried to kill a child to protect his family.
He killed Alton/Cleos (when he could've faked his death) to escape against 20,000 men.
Also being a kinslayer is probably even worse than being a kingslayer in Westeros.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
The scenes with Tywin and Arry are expertly done. They add so much to both characters and I think they might be my favorite scenes in the show.
Trying to kill a little kid and end up crippling him is never ok, I can't believe that is something I need to point out. You can like a character without having to explain away all their actions. Jaime is pretty fucked up.
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