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Game of Thrones - Season 2 - George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire - Sundays on HBO
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njean777
Member
I am at the end of SOS and don't have HBO so I cannot speak for season 2 yet, but the outrage is really weird to me. I have seen the first season and loved it, and personally cannot wait for season 2, but to anybody that thought this show was going to be an exact copy of the bools was only fooling themselves.TBH some parts in the books do not warrant any showtime. Although the Robb scenes are going to be interesting to see, and so is the conversation between Tywin and Arya as that never happened in the book at all, so all in all I am going to reserve judgement until I see season 2.
JoJoShabadoo
Member
The arguments were referring to before, not recently. The 2 Fast 2 Furious reference was a joke. The circles are from me posting something, people disagreeing. Me disagreeing with those posts, etc.
Naw, I'm not trolling. It just now looks like I am because I reached the point where I...
Until Sunday
NathanMcMahon
Banned
I get it now, you have no idea what production does and just misused the term which makes infinitely more sense. If production failed, then the show wouldn't exist. The production was executed flawlessly as the show was shot on budget and on time. As far as the opinions you have and others share, they are entirely understandable and valid as are other members who disagree with you. I have no opinion either way about the execution of the directing, acting, set dressing, writing or any other aspect of the show that is deemed artistic. I just want people to keep watching and keep those viewership numbers up (admittedly for entirely selfish reasons), which I am sure is not a problem at all.
Keep posting about how you don't need to post. It's really compelling.
Liabe Brave
Member
Complaints about occasional sloppy production are justified; financial limits undeniably hurt the show in many small ways. But the "right" budget is simply impossible.
Given that, useful criticism needs to focus on things within the show's grasp that are less than they could be. Some have indeed been brought up, like the confusing have-cake-and-eat-it editing on the burned boys plot. My own personal disappointment is Jon's intentional-miss swing at Ygritte; haven't we seen near-identical "he did...he didn't!" scenes a million times before? Lazy cinematic shorthand serves the story poorly.
But some of what's complained about is merely argument from personal incredulity. "They *have* to show it a different way or else no one will get the point!" Yet read unspoiled threads and plenty of folks have picked up on the idea just fine.
I think the thread would improve if people discussed more and ranted less, on both sides.
Given that, useful criticism needs to focus on things within the show's grasp that are less than they could be. Some have indeed been brought up, like the confusing have-cake-and-eat-it editing on the burned boys plot. My own personal disappointment is Jon's intentional-miss swing at Ygritte; haven't we seen near-identical "he did...he didn't!" scenes a million times before? Lazy cinematic shorthand serves the story poorly.
But some of what's complained about is merely argument from personal incredulity. "They *have* to show it a different way or else no one will get the point!" Yet read unspoiled threads and plenty of folks have picked up on the idea just fine.
I think the thread would improve if people discussed more and ranted less, on both sides.
Discotheque
Banned
I find the show enjoyable every week but I feel like my standards were set a bit high compared to the final product.
Because while I was reading the books (and fully aware that HBO was making a series) I was expecting Rome in a fantasy setting. The books read like Rome: TV series. With the multiple characters and political intrigue.
Hell, Bronn is Titus Pullo reborn and less awesome pretty much. What I got doesn't live up to Rome season 2 even. But still, considering this is from the people who brought us Troy this could have been a lot worse. There's room for improvement if they are willing to maybe switch up the writers.
Because while I was reading the books (and fully aware that HBO was making a series) I was expecting Rome in a fantasy setting. The books read like Rome: TV series. With the multiple characters and political intrigue.
Hell, Bronn is Titus Pullo reborn and less awesome pretty much. What I got doesn't live up to Rome season 2 even. But still, considering this is from the people who brought us Troy this could have been a lot worse. There's room for improvement if they are willing to maybe switch up the writers.
He already wrote like 2 or 3 lengthy posts detailing what he's not enjoying about the show. You can go back a few pages and read them if you want to know. Some were production related, some were book-to-show diversions.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
You should read what I already wrote multiple posts back as well and the realization that I came too which is the lack of knowledge about what specific jobs and phrases entail therefore causing confusion with what he wrote. You are a bit late but I appreciate the effort.
As someone who probably knows more about Rome than most, I can tell you that Rome in a fantasy setting was never a possibility.
For one, the budget. Second, Rome never had to contend with adapting anything. The whole or Roman history has been rewritten and recontextualized in such a romantic fashion that pretty much any story was fair game.
The actors they got for Rome were just fabulous from top to bottom. There were a few questionable choices, but I would say 90% of the cast was A-caliber.
I think Rome is the better show based on what GoT has produced so far, but then, Rome never had to deal with so many different storylines at once.
Lucius Vorenus - Leads back to Caesar
Titus Pullo - leads back to Caesar
Marc Antony - leads back to Caesar
etc.
Rome would often spend a whole episode just resolving one storyline, and even when it got a bit crazy towards the end (multiple battles, deaths in every episode), the actors were still game and no one could say the show lacked thematic cohesion.
Also, while the characters share some similarities, there is one major difference between Titus Pullo and Bronn.
For all of his flaws, Titus Pullo was led astray by powerful men who promised him brotherhood and riches. He's ultimately a good man who has to be what he is because of the circumstances surrounding his life. Bronn (at least as he's portrayed in the show GoT) is not a dumb brute (quite the opposite, he's very clever) and no one is forcing him to do anything.
So I need to get something out in the conversation that's bugged me since episode 4-ish.
When Cat returns to Robb's camp with Brienne, why the hell isn't the whole "Hey son, we saw some crazy shadow thing manifest out of thin air and murder Renly!" brought up? As it lays, I have to assume it happened off-camera, which is not acceptable. Just doesn't seem like she would go to try and negotiate with Renly on Robb's behalf and not let him know what went down immediately. Regardless...
Shouldn't she still be shaken by that? I can't remember how it played out with Catelyn in the books, but strictly speaking as a person digesting scenes from one episode to the next and seeing where/when Catelyn shows up, it should still be on her mind. It should still have some lingering, stirring emotions. Instead, she strolls into Robb's camp and does her motherly cockblock.
I didn't see anyone mention this but I can't be the only one bothered by the neglected acknowledgement, aside from Davos and Stannis vaguely discussing the 'birth' (which is NOT the same thing). Unless I missed it...?
When Cat returns to Robb's camp with Brienne, why the hell isn't the whole "Hey son, we saw some crazy shadow thing manifest out of thin air and murder Renly!" brought up? As it lays, I have to assume it happened off-camera, which is not acceptable. Just doesn't seem like she would go to try and negotiate with Renly on Robb's behalf and not let him know what went down immediately. Regardless...
Shouldn't she still be shaken by that? I can't remember how it played out with Catelyn in the books, but strictly speaking as a person digesting scenes from one episode to the next and seeing where/when Catelyn shows up, it should still be on her mind. It should still have some lingering, stirring emotions. Instead, she strolls into Robb's camp and does her motherly cockblock.
I didn't see anyone mention this but I can't be the only one bothered by the neglected acknowledgement, aside from Davos and Stannis vaguely discussing the 'birth' (which is NOT the same thing). Unless I missed it...?
Discotheque
Banned
Awesome little write-up. I agree with you on the Bronn-Pullo thing. I was just talking about their personality/exchanges. Motivation-wise they are completely different.
Pullo is actually loyal and has friends (who don't pay him)
Pullo is actually loyal and has friends (who don't pay him)
Liabe Brave
Member
Oh yes. Even the much-simplified show version of SoIaF is far more like actual history than anything in Rome. That show was basically an homage to popular culture's Hollywood-shaped idea of Rome, pushed by the writers to a ridiculous degree (e.g. Titus Pullo is integral to every important event in Roman history).
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Rome was a much better show than Game of Thrones as it currently is. I was hoping GoT would match it, but I don't think it will.
Liabe Brave
Member
Rome was perhaps a better-made show. But I couldn't enjoy it because it was so glossed-up, romanticized, and stupid. As I said, even in its weaksauce TV version I think Game of Thrones is more accurate to human experience.
Yes, even though it has dragons and zombies.
Anyone else depressed with the thought that aDwd
due to how they will split up the later books. They won't be able to just ignore characters for a season. I shutter at the though of every episode having a token scene for 2 plus years.
there will likely be 3 seasons of Dany at Meereen?
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
They can only do that if they want the series to end prematurely. There's no way to make that shit interesting.
Welcome to Game of Thrones: Season 2.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
ASOS
Well to be fair, she doesn't really bring it up in the books either. Of course in the books there are worse things going on by the time she's reunited with Robb, so I guess the show doesn't really have an excuse.
They're on such a tight schedule to get the show out, that I think they'll change stuff and take for granted that it will work.
As if your post looked any less absurd in context. Also, there was no straw man and I got a chuckle out of you, Smuggy McSmuggington (there's the straw man), accusing me of being smug. Definitely vague, though. I've participated in these conversations enough over the last few days that I've now earned the luxury of speaking more abstractly and avoiding redundancy.
I officially retire from this increasingly boring debate.
Until Monday.
Yes it does.
That bothers me too.
It also bothers me that Robb didn't even seem to notice Brienne. One of the rumours are that she killed Renly. But Robb completely ignores her, and Catelyn completely forgets about the shadow thing, which is a pretty big deal.
And Robb/Stannis aren't allies or anything. They're not even on good terms. So shouldn't Catelyn be worried that Robb might be in danger of shadow-related death too?
You're wrong, it sucks. Let's fight about it for pages on end.
Comparing Bronn to Titus Pullo is lulz-worthy. Rome takes a gigantic turd on GoT from every possible angle.
That was the entire point of the show, it's about two soldiers who somehow get involved in key events of roman history.
That was the entire point of the show, it's about two soldiers who somehow get involved in key events of roman history.
If people don't like the thread, maybe don't read it? You're contributing nothing with "this thread sucks". If you don't like it, don't click on it. There's other GoT threads you can post in if you don't want this kind of discussion.
Because that's totally the same as ignoring a shadow monster that murdered Renly.
Because that's totally the same as ignoring a shadow monster that murdered Renly.
I think his point is they didn't simply get involved, they were often the very REASON events happened according to Rome.
For example, if it wasn't for some random, vengeful guard attacking Titus for murdering his friend, Antony would've been able to veto the motion against Caesar, effectively changing the entirety of the history of the civil war between Caesar and Pompey, and what transitioned Rome from a Republic to an Empire.
That's a bit much for any fan of history.
Petty bickering?
I'm a "fan of history" and I enjoyed all those moments in Rome. *shrug*
EDIT: Nevermind. Now I'm contributing to the derailment myself by taking notice and responding to those kind of posts. So I should stop.
Is it? Do we really need to see every conversation despite how inconsequential it is?
"Hey Robb, saw a shadow monster stab Renly and now I've got a WNBA player doing my bidding."
"Okey dokey."
this man is right though, the first season of Rome and the sped up version of season two were far better than Game of Thrones thus far. Better cast, high production values, and most focused storyline.
It is the same that drew some Lost fans mad, we don't see them talking about 'things that happened' ever. Which for me, is pretty petty.
A couple of articles were posted on WiC yesterday.
Curtain Call: Amrita Acharia
Extras casting call provides more S3 clues (Remember to spoiler tag this stuff)
Curtain Call: Amrita Acharia
Extras casting call provides more S3 clues (Remember to spoiler tag this stuff)
I don't see how it's inconsequential. A shadow monster, which is super unusual and scary, just killed one of the people fighting the war. Robb is another person fighting the war and he is not on Stannis' side. I don't see now Catelyn wouldn't be worried about her son.
The entire war situation would change if I knew there was a shadow monster around.
If Robb knew, I doubt it would just be like "okey dokey". Stannis having shadow monsters that can get passed guards unseen and murder people is a pretty big deal.
And noting Brienne isn't any less useful than anyone else noting Brienne. If it's inconsequential for Robb to mention it, then it was for Jaime to mention it too. The show is about conversations and character interactions. So I don't think it's useless and by not mentioning it at all, it feels missing.
Magic isn't a thing in this universe. Murderous shadow monsters are even less of a thing.
Poop is a thing all humans do. And if you really want to argue that they never showed it so it might not exist, well, Jaime talks about sitting in his own poo. So there. Poo is addressed.
This is not at all like choosing not to show poop.
Oh to each his own no doubt, and I can understand doing this as a way of relating these larger than life moments to smaller characters the audience identifies with.
However for me it takes away too much from these events, a sort of condescension of history for the sake of an audience, and I didn't care for it. IMO the appeal of Rome was the historical narrative, so I was rather disappointed to see it not as much at the forefront as I was expecting.
Far too much Atia and her over the top opportunistic personality and Niobe and the drawn out
baby drama
Meh, I'd argue this, especially production values. I think GoT blows Rome out of the water. Far grander, more detailed and diverse, and more cohesive throughout.
You are entitled to your opinion, but the appeal of Rome to me were the fantastic characters, historical and fictional alike. It's not a documentary.
Now you're talking crazy.
But... a lot of that *is* the same thing everyone has been going round and round about. "in the books" is a pretty prominent part of what you are saying. You're even using (series)
later books to add to what we don't know about Jaime in CoK, which is even less fair to the show at this point in time.
Now I think the second part of that is interesting - which version is more compelling. That would be an interesting discussion at some point. Series
But do you think at this point we have enough information about TV Version Jaime - we've seen enough of that story - to make that judgement? That doesn't seem very reasonable to me.
That shouldn't be the last post on a page, it should be the first.Let's lighten the mood with a.... Tywin-Arya dance-off!
That's right, I use 50 posts/page. Got a problem?
Duane Cunningham
Member
Dunno, but I hope when he does, he gets modded and just goes on a rampage in this thread.
One day there will be an extra casting call based near where I live...
The Starks are not at war with the Baratheons. It doesn't affect him. What do you expect Robb to do or say that is so important?
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