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Game of Thrones - Season 2 - George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire - Sundays on HBO
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Steelyuhas
Member
Not to jump on your back with everyone else, but what the fuck? Bean was great.
YES, and no one.
This was a nice touch. She's wearing it in her scene with Theon in season 1 (episode 5), and Theon notices it and comments that the dwarf is a good tipper. ("I guess gold is cheap for a Lannister.")
I actually liked this version of Ros. She would have been good in moderation, but why did she need to be in so many extra scenes? Random unrelated question but is she Kit Harrington's girlfriend? I saw them at a party together.
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
at least she's hot
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
She was far more tolerable when she was naked all the time. Not even a nip this season.
Steelyuhas
Member
Rarely do they recast without very good reason. Think about it, they are going back on their originally decision, including an actress that they filmed the pilot with. You can complain about Clarke, but I bet she's better than the original actress for the role.
Personally, I plan the writing/her material during this portion of the series, because I liked her performance in season 1.
Yeah, I thought it was a nice tie-in as a character to expand Theon in season 1, and then tie in as Cersei's whore she captures instead of introducing another minor character. She finds her because of the Lion necklace from when Tryion visited her in season 1. All of that is quite good. Everything outside of that stuff with Littlefinger should've been cut though.
Personally, I plan the writing/her material during this portion of the series, because I liked her performance in season 1.
Yeah, I thought it was a nice tie-in as a character to expand Theon in season 1, and then tie in as Cersei's whore she captures instead of introducing another minor character. She finds her because of the Lion necklace from when Tryion visited her in season 1. All of that is quite good. Everything outside of that stuff with Littlefinger should've been cut though.
Well plan better.
Liabe Brave
Member
Some complaints are valid, but some don't seem to get how very, very difficult the adaptation was always going to be, esepcially once the plot threads started multiplying. Martin can widely space individual chapters of each plot and you don't notice because so much is going on in the intervening parts. Yet time passes very differently in each thread.
(There are MAJOR spoilers behind the bars below--don't highlight unless you've read the books. Seriously.)
For example, over the course of Storm of Swords Jon
I have no idea how the show is going to deal with that, but that they're going to have to make major changes to balance those tables is inevitable.
So when people complain that Arya isn't growing harder fast enough, try to remember that (series)
It's okay for things to build more slowly.
(There are MAJOR spoilers behind the bars below--don't highlight unless you've read the books. Seriously.)
For example, over the course of Storm of Swords Jon
hangs out with Mance and meets the wildling factions, hooks up with Ygritte, is sent south with the Thenns, shelters in deep caverns, climbs the Wall, narrowly misses Bran, escapes from the wildlings, defends Castle Black, readies the Wall, fights the main wildling army over several days, and is condemned by Slynt and Thorne and sent to kill Mance, at which point Stannis shows up. What has Stannis been doing during that same time period? Arguing with Davos about sacrificing Edric Storm, and...nothing. He does nothing else.
So when people complain that Arya isn't growing harder fast enough, try to remember that (series)
it will be summer of 2014(!) before she even leaves Westeros, and likely several years after that before she rejoins the main plot.
ThisWreckage
Banned
I can't believe what I'm reading. I felt like this was one of the best episodes of the season by far.
Ghost_Protocol
Member
I fucking KNEW the hottest girl in the show wasn't going to get a proper nude scene. KNEW IT!!
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Right. I'm pretty sure Martin even makes a point (not sure which book he starts telling the reader about this) that some of his chapters are taking place further back than others.
I mean, it's kinda the nature of not having a single protagonist, killing off significant and major characters on a whim, and having disconnected characters separated by thousands of miles and rarely or ever interacting -- it becomes hard for the audience to know for whom to root. Thoughts follow.
Robb -- Which is why I think they're romanticizing Robb a bit (not that they need to). But I can't help but notice that some complaints earlier in this thread were about him being too much like his father, too honorable and stiff and boring, but now I'm reading that he was too quick to lose his honor to bed that hottie limb remover while also complaining that they spent too long doing so! I would have preferred that his character was a bit more consistent, but I'm guessing that they needed that out of the way before the next episode.
Jon/Dany -- I think both are actually very similar characters, at least in context. First, they're both far removed from the action but yet they both clearly relate to the title of the series itself. Most scenes of theirs are somewhat jarring environments compared to the average fantasy landscape of Westeros. And both are going a long way about attempting to prove something either to themselves or to fulfill some unknown destiny.
More, and this is show-specific, they're both victims of being really important characters with not a lot of movement related to the big thrust of the season (blackwater bay). So we get these obviously drawn-out delays just to remind us the characters still exist when all they've really done is change locations and lose something significant.
I absolutely agree with most of the criticism about the pacing with them (not the actors), but I'm not sure it can be prevented without significantly rearranging how the story is presented (ie, Lost's character episodes).
Tyrion -- Still the best character, in both versions. I think this was the first time Bronn really felt out of place on screen, but perhaps I was misreading the scene as bad acting rather than intentional, awkward tension. I did like Bronn's take on what living through a siege is like, though.
Seeing a Tyrion/Varys scene made me realize how little we've seen of the Spider this season, but he's delightfully creepy in ways I didn't really imagine in the books.
Cersei -- fantastic scene this week. Agreed with a previous comment that we could tell she really delighted in attempting to inflict pain on Tyrion.
Joffrey -- the "red smile" scene was dangerously close to the clown show the actor that played Draco put on. He just couldn't handle being that evil of a little bastard, which up until now Joffrey did quite well. This time, though, he reminded me of Draco Malfoy's actor in that he was just so over the top and grew a bit too fast. I dunno, Tyrion's comments "I bet they're terrified" kinda saved the scene, but it seemed really silly.
Theon/Asha - I think as much credit as Theon's actor is getting, he isn't getting enough. And Asha is just fine, regardless of how much better the other version of her was in the books. This episode was good for both of them, but I saw a sanity in Theon's eyes this ep that wasn't in his eyes during the last one.
Cat/Jamie/Brienn - I think this was mostly glossed over but it didn't make a lot of sense, and I think I remember it not making a lot of sense in the books either. First he escapes, then he's captured, they argue about him, then he's gone again. How is it Catelyn can sacrifice over and over again in the name of the Starks and Winterfell but can make such a weird decision? Fallibility and unpredictability make better characters, I guess.
I don't have any real problems with Brienn's actress and her awkwardness in armor, as mentioned in another reply pages back. I did have a problem with her turning her back on him though. I really do look forward to these two fish out of water working together in the near future, but I feel like that might be something sacrificed.
Ros/The Other Whore/All love interests in the show, basically - I think much of the discussion here is wasted on these ladies, based on the idea that they're supposed to be the same characters in the novels. My approach is to treat them the way the show treats them -- side characters basically irrelevant to the main arcs. That some of them are being used as plot devices should only make us feel like they're easter eggs for the readers, not poorly-realized ghosts of interesting characters included in the books. Basically: I don't care about them and neither should you, at least until the show tells us to.
Davos/Stannis - steals every scene he's in. It's interesting how little him and Stannis have appeared this season, considering what we're supposed to see next episode. I'd love to have a bit more, but I think he's getting equal treatment here that he did in the books. It's just an interesting juxtaposition to the over-coverage of Jon/Dany with a scene, no matter how small, compared to the three scenes of major import to Davos/Stannis.
Tywin/Arya - Other than those with Tyrion, these have been my favorite scenes of the season. I do wish Arya was a bit closer to her book version, but I don't think she's unlikable or less compelling as some are suggesting. I also overlook not choosing Tywin as the 3rd kill until it was too late, if only because it made sense for her to be as close to a significant threat to her family as long as possible, assuming her guise held.
Major Criticisms - I overlook almost all complaints of actors, delivery, accents, awkwardness, and looks except when it is a distracting departure from the expected (Joffrey could get terrible very quickly if his scene this episode is any indication). I also overlook complaints of budget, sets, and battle/mob sizes except where it's unbelievable.
However, I completely agree with the criticism that the major point of the season -- the battle at Kings Landing -- has only really been on the periphery and not nearly all-consuming as three armies and a massive navy converging would seem to present. We get Tyrion sauntering around KL and discovering wildfire, or w/e it's called. We get Tywin sitting around a giant table calling his generals idiots. We get Robb looking at maps. But there's nothing tying them together, no urgency, no panic. There's never an effort to show preparation or movement other than the briefest scenes of tents and practicing swordsmen.
Anyway, I'm really excited to see how this thing turns out. The battle takes place at night, btw. Or at least a very significant part of it does.
I mean, it's kinda the nature of not having a single protagonist, killing off significant and major characters on a whim, and having disconnected characters separated by thousands of miles and rarely or ever interacting -- it becomes hard for the audience to know for whom to root. Thoughts follow.
Robb -- Which is why I think they're romanticizing Robb a bit (not that they need to). But I can't help but notice that some complaints earlier in this thread were about him being too much like his father, too honorable and stiff and boring, but now I'm reading that he was too quick to lose his honor to bed that hottie limb remover while also complaining that they spent too long doing so! I would have preferred that his character was a bit more consistent, but I'm guessing that they needed that out of the way before the next episode.
Jon/Dany -- I think both are actually very similar characters, at least in context. First, they're both far removed from the action but yet they both clearly relate to the title of the series itself. Most scenes of theirs are somewhat jarring environments compared to the average fantasy landscape of Westeros. And both are going a long way about attempting to prove something either to themselves or to fulfill some unknown destiny.
More, and this is show-specific, they're both victims of being really important characters with not a lot of movement related to the big thrust of the season (blackwater bay). So we get these obviously drawn-out delays just to remind us the characters still exist when all they've really done is change locations and lose something significant.
I absolutely agree with most of the criticism about the pacing with them (not the actors), but I'm not sure it can be prevented without significantly rearranging how the story is presented (ie, Lost's character episodes).
Tyrion -- Still the best character, in both versions. I think this was the first time Bronn really felt out of place on screen, but perhaps I was misreading the scene as bad acting rather than intentional, awkward tension. I did like Bronn's take on what living through a siege is like, though.
Seeing a Tyrion/Varys scene made me realize how little we've seen of the Spider this season, but he's delightfully creepy in ways I didn't really imagine in the books.
Cersei -- fantastic scene this week. Agreed with a previous comment that we could tell she really delighted in attempting to inflict pain on Tyrion.
Joffrey -- the "red smile" scene was dangerously close to the clown show the actor that played Draco put on. He just couldn't handle being that evil of a little bastard, which up until now Joffrey did quite well. This time, though, he reminded me of Draco Malfoy's actor in that he was just so over the top and grew a bit too fast. I dunno, Tyrion's comments "I bet they're terrified" kinda saved the scene, but it seemed really silly.
Theon/Asha - I think as much credit as Theon's actor is getting, he isn't getting enough. And Asha is just fine, regardless of how much better the other version of her was in the books. This episode was good for both of them, but I saw a sanity in Theon's eyes this ep that wasn't in his eyes during the last one.
Cat/Jamie/Brienn - I think this was mostly glossed over but it didn't make a lot of sense, and I think I remember it not making a lot of sense in the books either. First he escapes, then he's captured, they argue about him, then he's gone again. How is it Catelyn can sacrifice over and over again in the name of the Starks and Winterfell but can make such a weird decision? Fallibility and unpredictability make better characters, I guess.
I don't have any real problems with Brienn's actress and her awkwardness in armor, as mentioned in another reply pages back. I did have a problem with her turning her back on him though. I really do look forward to these two fish out of water working together in the near future, but I feel like that might be something sacrificed.
Ros/The Other Whore/All love interests in the show, basically - I think much of the discussion here is wasted on these ladies, based on the idea that they're supposed to be the same characters in the novels. My approach is to treat them the way the show treats them -- side characters basically irrelevant to the main arcs. That some of them are being used as plot devices should only make us feel like they're easter eggs for the readers, not poorly-realized ghosts of interesting characters included in the books. Basically: I don't care about them and neither should you, at least until the show tells us to.
Davos/Stannis - steals every scene he's in. It's interesting how little him and Stannis have appeared this season, considering what we're supposed to see next episode. I'd love to have a bit more, but I think he's getting equal treatment here that he did in the books. It's just an interesting juxtaposition to the over-coverage of Jon/Dany with a scene, no matter how small, compared to the three scenes of major import to Davos/Stannis.
Tywin/Arya - Other than those with Tyrion, these have been my favorite scenes of the season. I do wish Arya was a bit closer to her book version, but I don't think she's unlikable or less compelling as some are suggesting. I also overlook not choosing Tywin as the 3rd kill until it was too late, if only because it made sense for her to be as close to a significant threat to her family as long as possible, assuming her guise held.
Major Criticisms - I overlook almost all complaints of actors, delivery, accents, awkwardness, and looks except when it is a distracting departure from the expected (Joffrey could get terrible very quickly if his scene this episode is any indication). I also overlook complaints of budget, sets, and battle/mob sizes except where it's unbelievable.
However, I completely agree with the criticism that the major point of the season -- the battle at Kings Landing -- has only really been on the periphery and not nearly all-consuming as three armies and a massive navy converging would seem to present. We get Tyrion sauntering around KL and discovering wildfire, or w/e it's called. We get Tywin sitting around a giant table calling his generals idiots. We get Robb looking at maps. But there's nothing tying them together, no urgency, no panic. There's never an effort to show preparation or movement other than the briefest scenes of tents and practicing swordsmen.
Anyway, I'm really excited to see how this thing turns out. The battle takes place at night, btw. Or at least a very significant part of it does.
It's really weird how they had Stannis submit to the Lord of Lights and you see this as a totally unlikeable act for Stannis.
But then the show goes so long without showing Melisandre/Stannis that Stannis looks as normal and righteous as anyone. In fact, he's the savior of the whole kingdom, coming to attack Joffrey.
Then of course you have Tyrion who's essentially defending Joffrey from the onslaught, despite the fact that he's humiliated him in almost every scene the two have shared.
But then the show goes so long without showing Melisandre/Stannis that Stannis looks as normal and righteous as anyone. In fact, he's the savior of the whole kingdom, coming to attack Joffrey.
Then of course you have Tyrion who's essentially defending Joffrey from the onslaught, despite the fact that he's humiliated him in almost every scene the two have shared.
I can confirm a ASoS spoiler was posted as a prediction of what could happen in the future. After a bit of searching I PMed him about the fact he was a book reader and he confirmed he was. Thankfully his post was mostly ignored but I told him to stop posting things like that. [ASoS] This was the post.
Some other things have been posted [ACoK]
about Tywin heading to King's Landing after last night's episode
ComputerMKII
Banned
Catelyn doesn't need nude scenes
PhoenixDark
Banned
I wish someone like Mo Ryan would ask the showrunners about Ros, and the point of her character. Nearly every scene she was in was bad or average, and her potentially final scene on Sunday was so anti-climatic I have to wonder what the thought process was behind this. Her character was not developed at all, and instead was essentially used to display nudity - to the point where even non book readers have caught on, and don't like her.
Liked that episode much more than the previous one. More book stuff, more that pushed the season forward, and less botched/lame stuff. Hyped for the next ep.
[edit] oh and
OONA
my god
hahCatelyn doesn't need nude scenes
[edit] oh and
OONA
my god
Far better than the last two episodes though that doesn't say much. Some scenes were not very good but the ones with Tyrion, Cersei and Davos were excellent. Upset that it seems Quorin and Jon will not end up being as good as the books and despite the excellent scenes with Tywin and Arya, her development I think has suffered.
theignoramus
Member
whose asking for any event to occur at any time? you're exaggerating what people want (justice being done to the significant battles in the book) to better dismiss it.
I dont see anyone demanding to see the confrontation at Storm's End, for example. The way you describe, it's like there's a clamour for all manner of material to be thrown into show. that's not what's happening here.
Solideliquid
Member
I always felt a somber William Hurt would have been the best Eddard Stark.
Holy insanity the expectation in this thread is becoming so overwhelming it's really, really disappointing for me, a non-book reader. All that 90% of you do is immediately complain about this is different and that is different *cue spoiler tags with ACOK or whatever in front*.
It's exhausting. It's to the point now where it honestly seems like you guys are just watching and waiting to catch any and all changes, so you can rant on about them.
It's become impossible to discuss this show as a non-book reader in this thread. For shame. Show isn't the book people. It. Just. Isn't.
It's exhausting. It's to the point now where it honestly seems like you guys are just watching and waiting to catch any and all changes, so you can rant on about them.
It's become impossible to discuss this show as a non-book reader in this thread. For shame. Show isn't the book people. It. Just. Isn't.
It pretty much is what's happening. Even just 'justice done to significant battles in the book' is a huge undertaking for a television show budget. I think there was an earlier article posted that they had to go begging for the extra money for Blackwater.
StriKeVillain
Banned
Eh - I wouldn't sweat it that much. There's actually a lot of us book readers who are enjoying this season. Unfortunately, positive reactions are mostly drowned in the sea of negative.
In the end, critical discussion will always get more responses.
I'm confused by this. Stannis has consistently appeared to be this sort of cast off brother character who has been somewhat lost in the sea of claims to the throne, who is somewhat discarded by many as this weird dude who worships/prays to/whatever this bonkos deity. I'm not sure where you're getting the impression he's being viewed as a liberator, cause that isn't my impression at all.
And why wouldn't Tyrion try and defend Joffrey, and by extension himself? He's the Hand, and a Lannister. Stannis wins, Tyrion is dead. Plain and simple.
Whilst I agree that some of the criticism based entirely on how the show deviates from the book is exhausting, there's a thread for people who haven't read the books. I wouldn't normally tell someone to leave a thread, but when you're issue specifically relates to how the material splits then you'd be far more content in that thread, where the show's judged solely on it's own merits.
There is? I know there is another thread for the books, but I wasn't aware there is a second thread for the show that specifically mentions no book talk.
Though, considering the title of this thread, you'd think that'd be in here.
EDIT: Oh nice, I just found it. Thanks.
Cornballer
Member
- Via WiC.net: Kit Harrington Talks 'Game of Thrones' on Extra (youtube)
Anton Sugar
Member
Seriously though, the Stannis/Davos scenes are fucking great. The actors and their chemistry--perfect. Liam Cunningham brings the perfect humble, sharp, utilitarian attitude to Davos, and Stannis has really grown on me. I found Stannis's "horses/cats/dogs...so we ate them" moment to be fucking HILARIOUS--just the deadpan way he delivers it. He shows no emotional difference between the animals he hates and the ones he loves (or, respects, rather). So good.
Burger
Member
*slow clap*
I've read the books and I love this show. People having a giant moan about changes to the story, or characters here have no idea. Nobody has done high fantasy on this scale with this budget before, let alone managed to pull it off. I mean, what's the closest thing to this show? Merlin? Fuck me. Having HBO produce a show like this is literally a dream come true, for everyone.
Imagine all the arguing the script writers have over making changes to the story, or which scenes to cut. None of us have the slightest bit of insight into why they were made, and instead of thinking "Well, these people are smart, I'm sure they had their reasons" there is a bunch of ill informed complaining.
These giant diatribes of micro analysis on a particular character or line of dialogue are tiring. Critique is ok, but jesus christ some of you people are insane.
theignoramus
Member
I posted that article. And it mentions that they've already had to skip two huge battles, (actually, they had to cut one last year, so they started planning for it, then axed it) one last season and one this season for lack of budget. If they can barely handle things now, I can only imagine what they intend to sacrifice in future seasons.
Cornballer
Member
- WiC.net: Thrones ratings back at the old high
I'm sure that I'm late to this but isn't next week's episode the one written by GRRM?
Thus far my love/hate of the episodes has been dependent on the writers and I've come to the conclusion that David Benioff and D.B. Weiss should write fewer episodes and Vanessa Taylor should write more.
Thus far my love/hate of the episodes has been dependent on the writers and I've come to the conclusion that David Benioff and D.B. Weiss should write fewer episodes and Vanessa Taylor should write more.
Cornballer
Member
Yes
BertramCooper
Banned
They're not going to go crazy and (SOS)
excise Jeyne entirely in favor of this chick, will they?
I certainly still like it...I like it very much in fact. But like many who have read the books, it's impossible not to want to discuss the changes and their impacts. There also seems to be confusion among some that simply disliking segments or changes is akin to "hating the show".
BertramCooper
Banned
(SOS)
I guess it would heighten Walder Frey's anger at Rob, since he abandoned his daughter in favor of some foreign whore.
It's not a huge deal, I guess. Jeyne never did much. But she was connected to the Lannisters, which added even more unease to the situation.
It's not a huge deal, I guess. Jeyne never did much. But she was connected to the Lannisters, which added even more unease to the situation.
I love the show but I'm going to be crticial when they make stupid decisions and pointless plot changes. I think the only thing that is really bugging me is Jon's story and now some of Arya's changes. I would be alright with the changes if it actually resulted in great television but episode 8 was downright mediocre. I actually like episodes 6 and 7, David Nutter was underrated in my opinion.
We need some of that in gif form. Maybe have some of her dancing inter-cut with this one from Plywood.
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