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[David Incorporated Esq.]

Qhorin is a short-lived character while Ygritte has a huge impact on Jon. Better to cut Qhorin time to build up the Ygritte/Jon relationship, as much as it bothered some people.

And I think they did enough explaining the reason for killing Qhorin. Though I wish Qhorin had managed to say anything about his plans before the fight, the whole "Maybe you'll last the night" to Jon getting his bonds removed plus Qhorin's last words covers that pretty well.

 

[ultron87]

I really don't think Qhorin's plan was as hard to understand as you guys are suggesting. They showed him talking to Jon about infiltration in the scenes from last episode.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

Guys what if Ros is the one who will sit the Iron Throne in the end?

 

[Zabka]

The point of what? The post I replied to definitely seemed to be implying that Jon actually just killed Qhorin due to what he was saying.

To make it dubious.

Just for discussion one of the casting calls called for "men or women that are over 18 and that are under 5ft in height."

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Qhorin is a short-lived character while Ygritte has a huge impact on Jon. Better to cut Qhorin time to build up the Ygritte/Jon relationship, as much as it bothered some people.

And I think they did enough explaining the reason for killing Qhorin. Though I wish Qhorin had managed to say anything about his plans before the fight, the whole "Maybe you'll last the night" to Jon getting his bonds removed plus Qhorin's last words covers that pretty well.

Nah, this way was way better than some cheesy ass "Follow me lead now, laddie."

Ugh. Thank Christ.

 

[Dany]

I thought brienne never killed a man.

 

[Emerson]

To make it dubious.

Right, that's fine. But the poster I was replying to seemed to think that they actually made a change from the books, which they didn't. The plan was clear enough.

 

[WyndhamPrice]

Guys what if Ros' last name is Bolton.

Think of what that could mean.






I have no idea if that joke plays outside of my head.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I LOVED, by the way, the House of the Undying. Series:

Spoiler

Getting to see a flash forward I don't even remember in the books, the throne room exposed, snow, holy fuck, (even though it was obvious at least parts of it would happen eventually), so fucking sick.

 

[Amir0x]

Didn't he say two episodes ago that a Night Watch could learn a lot by infiltrating the Wildlings or did I imagine that?

Yeah, but it didn't seem like Jon really understood... or at least, he didn't seem to. It seemed more like an open air question. I dunno, at the very best it was incoherently done... the whole Jon plot line has been just really all bizarrely done to say the least :/

GoT book spoilers

Spoiler

yeah, this man had infant children murdered. I know they have him sending off the Mountain to burn some fields and raze some villages, but do non readers really have an understanding of the shit this man did to make his daughter Queen?

I like Charles Glass' acting, I didnt care for this whole grandfatherly nature they've introduced to his character, this man is stone cold Machiavellian.

Yeah Charles Glass is the man, but Tywin is truly a monster. I mean he still seems cold and calculating, and I'm all for making characters more gray, but it's just that what that bit of character building was in exchange for was not worth the effort. The alternative would have just made way, way better tv, aaaand would have made a far more important character even better.

(ASoS spoilers)

Spoiler

I think we'll get a few giants, but no mammoths. Giants should be relatively easy to pull off with tall actors, prosthetics, and camera trickery. CGI Mammoths would be a waste of budget. I would rather they cut them and use the money for more direwolves, dragons, and
White Walkers.

This is what I am going to assume.

 

[venom2124]

HOTU, meh. A minor disappointment. I didn't expect prophecy, but they didn't even include the undying. It wasn't as terrible as I expected. Dragons looked good, and we finally saw all three.

Jon's storyline was so dumb. At least Ygritte seems about right.

Arya had a nice end, and actually acted like Arya for a second, wanting to learn to kill as effectively as Jaqen.

They skip the burning of Winterfell, which is better than doing it without

Spoiler

Ramsay

, I guess.

Loved that the cold came with the Others. Wished they were riding dead elk. I always imagined the Others as being very beautiful, but I can live with the desiccated version of the show.

Season One was so much better.

That is a truly glorious avatar.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

GoT book spoilers

Spoiler

yeah, this man had infant children murdered. I know they have him sending off the Mountain to burn some fields and raze some villages, but do non readers really have an understanding of the shit this man did to make his daughter Queen?

I like Charles Glass' acting, I didnt care for this whole grandfatherly nature they've introduced to his character, this man is stone cold Machiavellian.

Remember how Tywin looks for the assassin in Harrenhall on the show? He does it by hanging his own men one after the other. He hangs twenty men in one night and says to continue until the assassin is found.

He does appear a little too grandfatherly in the show but it's not often you see his cruelty in the books, either. It's something that comes up every so often just to remind you how heartless he is but isn't a major theme for the character.

 

[Fuzzy]

To make it dubious.

Just for discussion one of the casting calls called for "men or women that are over 18 and that are under 5ft in height."

[ACoK/ASoS]

Spoiler

Reeds.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Yeah, but it didn't seem like Jon really understood... or at least, he didn't seem to. It seemed more like an open air question. I dunno, at the very best it was incoherently done... the whole Jon plot line has been just really all bizarrely done to say the least :/

I don't see how suddenly dropping the possibility of going Jon Snow Agent Of N.I.G.H.T.S. W.A.T.C.H. is an "open air question".

 

[Fuzzy]

I thought brienne never killed a man.

They already had her kill two right after Renly was killed.

 

[Zabka]

[ACoK/ASoS]

Spoiler

Reeds.

Sorry, forgot to add this was an extras casting call. I think it might have to do with

Spoiler

giants effects

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Nah, this way was way better than some cheesy ass "Follow me lead now, laddie."

Ugh. Thank Christ.

That's not what I'm saying. A simple "Join them, live with them and learn. Do whatever you must to gain their trust but remember that you are a brother of the Night's Watch."

It's done very well in the books, even down to Jon being startled that he actually kills Qhorin. Though Ghost shoulda been there, damnit.

 

[jett]

Oh shit guys. O shit oh shit. Varys is going to send Ros to Dany isn't he. Cause she does not have any handmaidens now.fml.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Ghost is the worst friend ever.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

And damnit where is my gif of Dany's "Mother of Dragons Pimp Walk."

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Oooh! ASOS:

Spoiler

Maybe LF will blame Lysa's murder on her. It'd be gold!

 

[Fuzzy]

I like Charles Glass' acting, I didnt care for this whole grandfatherly nature they've introduced to his character, this man is stone cold Machiavellian.

Yeah Charles Glass is the man, but Tywin is truly a monster.

Dance. Charles Dance.

[insert gif of him dancing here]

 

[ultron87]

And damnit where is my gif of Dany's "Mother of Dragons Pimp Walk."

We need the chained up Dany with dragonfire all around her metal album cover first.

 

[Lothar]

I'm sorry but that was lousy.

Maybe it's my fault. I read the preview and with each scene, I envisioned it being better in my head.

Wait no, it's not my fault. Almost any fan of the series could have written a better Jon scene than that. It looks like Jon killed him because he was mad. It never ever came across that Jon understood what Qhorin was doing.

House of Undying. WTF? Where are the visions? It's not even a matter of budget. How hard would it be to show a man, a wife, and a baby, a feast, 4 dwarves eating a woman, no excuse. I thought by holding the scene back into the final, it meant it was going to be incredibly awesome. It wasn't. There's no reason this couldn't have been in episode 7 or 8.

Arya going through the entire season without killing anyone is garbage. They've watered her character and her story down so much.

Having Theon's men turn on him and not having Reek for the burning of Wintefell is beyond stupid. What was great in the books was that one moment where Theon thought everything was saved.

Not having Catelyn and Robb find out about Bran and Rickon's deaths by now is a pointless change that only takes the drama away from their stories.

Why didn't the White Walkers kill Sam?

 

[LuchaShaq]

In all seriousness why bother with having the direwolves at all if they are going to use them for less than 30 seconds all season?

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Yeah, Harrenhal was a complete waste. Arya's storyline was my favorite in the book so it was a bit harder for me to watch it being butchered than it was Jon's story, even though Jon's storyline received far more damage. I liked Arya and Tywin but it came at the expensen of stuff that would have made for better TV.

I don't even know why they changed the stuff. I doubt it had to do with the budget. The Stuff that happened before Harrenhal with Arya was cut because of budget. I'm sure making a village isn't cheap.

They would have had to hire like more local actors for the Harrenhall storyline. I'm just guessing they needed to find more ways to get Tywin in the show since the actor is so good.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

Qhorin is a short-lived character while Ygritte has a huge impact on Jon. Better to cut Qhorin time to build up the Ygritte/Jon relationship, as much as it bothered some people.

And I think they did enough explaining the reason for killing Qhorin. Though I wish Qhorin had managed to say anything about his plans before the fight, the whole "Maybe you'll last the night" to Jon getting his bonds removed plus Qhorin's last words covers that pretty well.

Thats the problem, IMO. Jon's time with Qhorin is limited, but its waaaaay more than the show. His time with Qhorin is what cements his character as a man of the Night's Watch {ASOS}

Spoiler

even though he goes "turncloak" with the Wildlings. And Qhorin is able to put a lot of trust into Jon and give him some leadership lessons, which we never saw on the show.

My biggest problem with how the show handled it is that we're going to have tons of time with Ygritte next year, while Qhorin's time was absurdly shortened. And for what? Ygritte making some sex jokes and Jon looking like a total doofus?

It just makes his eventual character development into Lord Commander a bit hard to fathom.

Its just a problem that the changes they made with Jon weren't even in making for better more exciting TV. Characterizing Qhorin and his rangers as the super special forces badasses they are supposed to be and having them stalk the wildlings then get hunted down by them in a prolonged chase until they're cornered was great and suspenseful in the book. The show? Not so much.

 

[StriKeVillain]

I'm sorry but that was lousy.

Maybe it's my fault. I read the preview and with each scene, I envisioned it being better in my head.

Wait no, it's not my fault. Almost any fan of the series could have written a better Jon scene than that. It looks like Jon killed him because he was mad. It never ever came across that Jon understood what Qhorin was doing.

House of Undying. WTF? Where are the visions? It's not even a matter of budget. How hard would it be to show a man, a wife, and a baby, a feast, 4 dwarves eating a woman, no excuse. I thought by holding the scene back into the final, it meant it was going to be incredibly awesome. It wasn't. There's no reason this couldn't have been in episode 7 or 8.

Arya going through the entire season without killing anyone is garbage. They've watered her character and her story down so much.

Having Theon's men turn on him and not having Reek for the burning of Wintefell is beyond stupid. What was great in the books was that one moment where Theon thought everything was saved.

Not having Catelyn and Robb find out about Bran and Rickon's deaths by now is a pointless change that only takes the drama away from their stories.

Why didn't the White Walkers kill Sam?

So, you'll be re-subscribing and watching Season 3's premiere right?

 

[jett]

Nah, this way was way better than some cheesy ass "Follow me lead now, laddie."

Ugh. Thank Christ.

Your apologist ways in this thread have been the fucking worst, just wanted to let you know that. Jesusfuck I can't believe any book reader could like what was done to Jon's arc, let alone prefer what the show did.

 

[Lumiere]

While the Jon storyline was changed, I don't think it was that big of a deal. I mentioned it to the friends I just watched the finale with, all non-book readers. One of them replied:

"It was completely understandable. They set it all up with that earlier scene that you would have to be a fucking idiot to not pick up on."

And you know what, between that and the "We are the watchers on the wall" line, you get exactly what Qhorin is asking Jon to do. We didn't see him fight alongside Qhorin really, but oh well. Everyone I saw it with completely understood that Qhorin was entrusting Jon to join the wildlings and act on the inside.

My husband (non-book reader) said the same to me. I had this super-outraged reaction at the scene, but when I explain why he replied that it was clear the same thing was happening in the TV show as well.
I still think it was done a loooot better in the books, but I guess it looked worse than what it actually is to me because I was expecting specific things to happen.

 

[Operations]

House of the Undying scene was butchered beyond belief. The visions and prophecies were instrumental IMO, and all we got was a made-up illusion that seemingly (I'm admittedly still midway through ASOS) doesn't bring the story forward.

 

[AngryMoth]

While I'm not happy with the house of undying I can understand the changes, but the one thing I think they really shouldn't have left out is

Spoiler

3 betrayals, 3 lovers etc

If you are the type of person who can't separate the two mediums in these situations, I don't know why you wouldn't have waited to read the books. Kinda did yourself a disservice there.

Eh, maybe. I don't think thats really the problem. The big issues for me this season have been the writing and the lack of focus. If it were a more faithful adaptation those things wouldn't bother me as much, but if those things were better I could handle a lot more changes. I've said before in this thread that beyond the first book I don't thinks its possible to make a good tv show as well as a good adaptation, this season has been stuck in the no mans land between the two. Just my opinion of course, I'm glad most of you are still enjoying it.

 

[Moaradin]

Oh god, the book comparison whining is back =(

 

[Lothar]

So, you'll be re-subscribing and watching Season 3's premiere right?

I don't know. Blackwater episode was the best episode of the two seasons and it blew me away. But this episode really did kill a lot of my interest in the show.

 

[Dany]

Oh god, the book comparison whining is back =(

Its different. For the worse on the majority of things. Comparisons are going to be made.

 

[velvet_nitemare]

Oh god, the book comparison whining is back =(

What did you expect? It will never go away, and rightly so.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

I see a lot of people are upset that the show isn't matching the quality and depth of the source material.

I am stunned at how absolutely naive these people are.

The source material is source material. The show has to stand on its own merits and changes have to be made, sometimes these changes will anger fans of the source material. In short: Deal with it.

 

[Lothar]

Oh god, the book comparison whining is back =(

Read the books and you would understand why. Changes can be good or it can bad. These are some badddd changes.

 

[LuchaShaq]

So, you'll be re-subscribing and watching Season 3's premiere right?

I use hbo go through my parents cable, that said this season being over half awful is why I changed my mind on the season 1 blu ray right before buying it and won't be buying this season's either.


Stuff like less dragons I can understand because budget, I can understand cutting pre harrenhall arya for time.

The problem is many of the changes damage the plot and make it a worse television show but do not save time or money therefore are mind boggling.

 

[The Lamonster]

Need a hi res screen of The Other.

 

[Dany]

was there a teaser for season 3 at all?

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

I see a lot of people are upset that the show isn't matching the quality and depth of the source material.

I am stunned at how absolutely naive these people are.

The source material is source material. The show has to stand on its own merits and changes have to be made, sometimes these changes will anger fans of the source material. In short: Deal with it.

Changes for budgetary reasons are fine. Bad writing is bad.

was there a teaser for season 3 at all?

Yeah, it just said coming in April 2013, "Strong Belwas is hungry!"

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Read the books and you would understand why. Changes can be good or it can bad. These are some badddd changes.

I love the books and I have seriously enjoyed the show. You can't just make claims that your opinions are objectively true because you have the inside deal on the real story.

 

[Moaradin]

was there a teaser for season 3 at all?

This early? I doubt it.

 

[JGS]

Read the books and you would understand why. Changes can be good or it can bad. These are some badddd changes.

Heck no! Ignorance is bliss regarding this show. It's one of the best on TV easily and it seems like one has to choose one or the other. I get the complaints (Well, not really since I don't read the differences) since I had similar ones with most book translations, but this show is amazing from a noob's POV.

 

[jett]

was there a teaser for season 3 at all?

a teaser of what, nothing has been filmed.

 

[Dany]

a teaser of what, nothing has been filmed.

they had a very short teaser last year saying season 2 airs in april with the green wildfire covering the logo.

 

[Zabka]

Need a hi res screen of The Other.

I'd love to help you out but HBOGO isn't giving me anything better than 1998 AOL through a toilet quality right now.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Yeah, I also thought the House of the Undying was a major downgrade in every way from the book. They didn't include the potion that she drank beforehand that might have indicated that she was tripping balls. Also, no table full of all the Undying at the end.

Anyone else think, however, that the ruined Iron Throne room adjacent to the wall might have been forshadowing what might happen if she fails, or maybe just before the series is over? I don't know if GRRM cares to put such rewriting into such things, however.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Your apologist ways in this thread have been the fucking worst, just wanted to let you know that. Jesusfuck I can't believe any book reader could like what was done to Jon's arc, let alone prefer what the show did.

"Apologist"? Yeah fucking right.

I'm not apologizing for dick.

I have somehow managed in my loathsome little brain to look at the book and the show as two distinct entities. It's so weird how that's worked but one of the side effects, aside from being called names over the internet, is that I can appreciate the show on its own and not run the text of the books along side it as I watch, flagging scenes for poor alignment.

"Apologist"? I really don't see the angle. I've never said "Hey guys, shut up, this is totally true to the book" or "Hey guys, shut up, this is totally better than the book". I've looked at the show as a TV show and, sure, had plenty of laughs at people getting up in arms about how this or that isn't like the show and, sure, had a lot of wacky adventures on the bus talking to people about the show.

I don't see how that makes me an apologist. I guess it just makes me someone who likes one more show than you do.