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Game of Thrones - Season 2 - George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
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Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Yes, this is exactly what was wrong with their handling of Jon's arc.
I know some people are getting annoyed at the constant book comparisons, but this is the thread for book readers, and when the show has made changes as questionable as they have, these complaints should be expected.
Edit: the white walker looked great and I was hoping they'd find Strong Belwas in that vault when they opened it.
velvet_nitemare
Member
This continues to be the most hollow defense of the changes.
The changes are being complained about because they make no sense or actively conspire to make the show worse.
I do not require a literalist adaptation. I require plot lines to make sense and for the changes to be made in such a way that suggest a.) the showrunners understand the characters, even as they exist in the show alone and b.) the showrunners are making changes for a better tv show.
So far, the changes have been worse not only for the characters themselves, but as television devices. Almost every single change has been worse television than if they would have just gone with the book originals! And I'm not talking merely of budget constraints, because that sort of stuff is forgivable. I'm talking simple stuff, simple character stuff, that would have cost no budget, would have fit the moments cleanly and made vastly superior and more engrossing television.
So far, the changes suggest the showrunners have virtually no clue as to the heart of the characters from the books OR the show (Arya already killed people; why did they conspire to pussy her entire storyline this season?), and just are doing shit for the fuck of it
Also, lol, how is Xaro being all super rich all fake? HOW does this make sense? Did I miss something? Why is all of Qarth all like buying into his BS? Where is his influence coming from? His gold/gems is barely enough to buy a 'small ship'? Christ, NOTHING MAKES SENSE IN THE CHANGES
While we wait for Season 3, we should catch up on some of our favorite other shows this season.
Two and a Half Men lololololol
I didn't say you had to agree. But if you read the books, you should at the very least be able to understand where the complaints are from.
Like this post... Whether you agree or not, you have to admit he's making solid points.
Azrael said:
My thoughts:
-Brienne and Jaime's scene was very well done, but since the episode ended I started to wonder why they neither Brienne nor Jaime had figured out a plan for deceiving others as to his true identity past, "Uh, yeah he stole a pig." Really? You didn't think a fake name might come in handy?
-Joffrey's whole tirade about keeping his vows to Sansa was just so blatantly transparent. Did no one in there think it was suspicious that Pycelle had already confirmed with the High Septon that Joffrey had the green light? Also, Littlefinger was getting really creepy with Sansa. His quick save after saying he loved Cat, by adding "...like a sister," made it clear he was trying to hide his emotions for her mother.
-I cannot be the only one who hoped Ros was going to get killed when a cloaked stranger came into her room, can I? And when Varys said Littlefinger had one weakness, I suppose he was talking about
, right?
-Tyrion's scar looks good, and I wonder how it will look next season when it "heals" up. That being said, something just felt off with his scene with Shae. I liked his conversation with Varys, but the talk with Shae just felt forced and out of character. Of course he had just had a near-death experience, but still.
-Theon's little spout in his room wasn't great, though I did like the thought that he would leave for the Night's Watch. When Luwin told him, "You're not the man you're pretending to be," I really liked his line about having come to far to pretend to be anything else, since that really sums up Theon to the core. He's made all these bad decisions because he's trying to be someone he's not, and he backed himself into a corner. His speech was surprisingly good, and I did have to laugh at it's abrupt conclusion.
-Stannis' scene was fine I guess, as fine as strangling scene can be anyways. Also, did Melisandre or Davos tell Stannis about how Renly died, or did he just put two and two together?
-Arya's goodbye with Jaqen went over pretty well, even if I do wish Jaqen could have stuck around a little longer. He was one of my favorite characters this season, and it's too bad that Arya didn't choose to stick with him.
-Robb's wedding was a nice scene, and his line to Cat about her not being in any position to tell him he's being reckless was not just cold, but spot on. Especially remembering that Cat didn't just let Jaime out, but she is almost personally responsible for the entire war because of her taking Tyrion prisoner.
-The Wildlings are horrible judges of character. "Oh you killed the guy who just attacked you, while simultaneously insulting your mother? Well I guess that proves you're with us now. So just let me just cut your restraints, and there you go!" But I was really impressed with the shot of the Wildling camp, which really did look massive.
-The House of the Undying wasn't exactly the big climax I was anticipating, but it was still solid, though it does raise the question: Is Pyat Pree the only warlock? Other than himself, the only warlocks we saw were....copies of himself. And I know I'm not an expert on Dragon biology, but the dragons were breathing what seemed like an absurd amount of fire given their size. Her confrontation with Xaro was enjoyable though, with the reveal that his vault was empty meaning he was not truly the richest man in Qarth, echoing the theme of power being an illusion, "A shadow on the wall". That being said, I am sad Doreah, the hot hand maiden is gone. I had a suspicion she was the one who betrayed Dany a few episodes ago when she was not found dead, but I just didn't want to believe it. I also liked the Dothraki taking the Golden peacock they had tried to steal earlier in the season.
-The ending was fantastic, as I really liked the look of the White Walkers and the Wights. The only thing I wish they had done would have been having Sam been with the Old Bear on the Fist, rather than out scavenging with Tweedle-Dee, and Tweedle-Dumb. But that's just a small issue.
And finally, was it just me, or did this episode spend an inordinate amount of time with close ups of eyes?
-Brienne and Jaime's scene was very well done, but since the episode ended I started to wonder why they neither Brienne nor Jaime had figured out a plan for deceiving others as to his true identity past, "Uh, yeah he stole a pig." Really? You didn't think a fake name might come in handy?
-Joffrey's whole tirade about keeping his vows to Sansa was just so blatantly transparent. Did no one in there think it was suspicious that Pycelle had already confirmed with the High Septon that Joffrey had the green light? Also, Littlefinger was getting really creepy with Sansa. His quick save after saying he loved Cat, by adding "...like a sister," made it clear he was trying to hide his emotions for her mother.
-I cannot be the only one who hoped Ros was going to get killed when a cloaked stranger came into her room, can I? And when Varys said Littlefinger had one weakness, I suppose he was talking about
his unrequited love for Catylen Stark
-Tyrion's scar looks good, and I wonder how it will look next season when it "heals" up. That being said, something just felt off with his scene with Shae. I liked his conversation with Varys, but the talk with Shae just felt forced and out of character. Of course he had just had a near-death experience, but still.
-Theon's little spout in his room wasn't great, though I did like the thought that he would leave for the Night's Watch. When Luwin told him, "You're not the man you're pretending to be," I really liked his line about having come to far to pretend to be anything else, since that really sums up Theon to the core. He's made all these bad decisions because he's trying to be someone he's not, and he backed himself into a corner. His speech was surprisingly good, and I did have to laugh at it's abrupt conclusion.
-Stannis' scene was fine I guess, as fine as strangling scene can be anyways. Also, did Melisandre or Davos tell Stannis about how Renly died, or did he just put two and two together?
-Arya's goodbye with Jaqen went over pretty well, even if I do wish Jaqen could have stuck around a little longer. He was one of my favorite characters this season, and it's too bad that Arya didn't choose to stick with him.
-Robb's wedding was a nice scene, and his line to Cat about her not being in any position to tell him he's being reckless was not just cold, but spot on. Especially remembering that Cat didn't just let Jaime out, but she is almost personally responsible for the entire war because of her taking Tyrion prisoner.
-The Wildlings are horrible judges of character. "Oh you killed the guy who just attacked you, while simultaneously insulting your mother? Well I guess that proves you're with us now. So just let me just cut your restraints, and there you go!" But I was really impressed with the shot of the Wildling camp, which really did look massive.
-The House of the Undying wasn't exactly the big climax I was anticipating, but it was still solid, though it does raise the question: Is Pyat Pree the only warlock? Other than himself, the only warlocks we saw were....copies of himself. And I know I'm not an expert on Dragon biology, but the dragons were breathing what seemed like an absurd amount of fire given their size. Her confrontation with Xaro was enjoyable though, with the reveal that his vault was empty meaning he was not truly the richest man in Qarth, echoing the theme of power being an illusion, "A shadow on the wall". That being said, I am sad Doreah, the hot hand maiden is gone. I had a suspicion she was the one who betrayed Dany a few episodes ago when she was not found dead, but I just didn't want to believe it. I also liked the Dothraki taking the Golden peacock they had tried to steal earlier in the season.
-The ending was fantastic, as I really liked the look of the White Walkers and the Wights. The only thing I wish they had done would have been having Sam been with the Old Bear on the Fist, rather than out scavenging with Tweedle-Dee, and Tweedle-Dumb. But that's just a small issue.
And finally, was it just me, or did this episode spend an inordinate amount of time with close ups of eyes?
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Ultimately there will be changes made to the show in the future such that the changes that have already been made will make more sense. You can't look at the changes to certain storylines and complain that they don't make any sense when the way they play out will almost certainly be different than how you expect.
To apply this directly to Qhorin and Jon, maybe Mance will fill in for the training that Qhorin provided in the book? Who knows?!
Answer: NOT YOU.
To apply this directly to Qhorin and Jon, maybe Mance will fill in for the training that Qhorin provided in the book? Who knows?!
Answer: NOT YOU.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Oh, please do shut the fuck up.
I'm currently burning through the books. I don't mind the motherfucking changes.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Clearly he just read the books better than you did.
At this point, people who come in to reply to people making valid points just to say nothing more than "Hey I like the changes" should probably be banned for trolling or being garbage posters.
Jesus christ, post some content. Reply to people's criticism, don't just waste a post and waste our time to say "Shut the fuck up".
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Maybe he will, maybe he won't, doesn't mean we can't make comments on what we see.
I was thinking the same thing, but yeah it could end up being much better later on.
Totally read that as Jules from pulp fiction
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I have a few problems with some of the changes they've made, but for me it comes down to this: It's horribly tedious to constantly talk about it. I'm still enjoying this show overall. I hope they do better next season, but I just find it terribly uninteresting to talk about the things I don't like. It's fine to mention the problems but we've got a few people in here who seem to completely hate the show at this point and it's annoying.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
I completely agree, unfortunately a lot of these comments can be summed up by "THESE IDIOTS ARE RUINING EVERYTHING!" It's not reasoned discussion on where they're going with the changes, it's just "they're doing it wrong and I hate it." It's childish and obnoxious.
So this comes down to a 'i hate negativity' post? Really? Well, not a lot I can do for you there - if you find that talk tedious, skip the negative post and only engage in rainbows, unicorn and fairy dust speak. No one is forcing you to participate in the other type of conversation.
Personally, I find show/game fellatio to be 'tedious', but I'm not asking those people to stop, am I? No, because topics only work if there are both camps, and if both camps are healthy (and, of course, if there are people in between too).
I'm pretty sure you have at points borderline literally insinuated that people comparing the book and the show should shut up. Am I imagining this shit? You've been defending or brushing off every single complain levied at this season(you're doing it right there in this post), but for me saying that the show handled Jon better than the book was too much. How, how the fuck?
BFIB
Member
This show needs 12 episodes. Fuck the budget, if True Blood can give Tara 15 more minutes of lip quiver per season, us GoT fans deserve to see Arya on the road w/ Yoren, Hot Pie and Gendry. We deserve more Harrenhal, the Tickler, and please, more Tywin and Arya scenes. We rightfully deserve more Qhorin Halfhand/Jon Snow buildup/mentoring. Melisandre needs to cast Magic Missle to the old timers on the HBO board.
Make it right, HBO. Give this the 12 episodes it rightly deserves from here on out.
Make it right, HBO. Give this the 12 episodes it rightly deserves from here on out.
So this is the new Lost thread?
I don't think GRRM will every finish the series to truly get Lostified.
The Lamonster
Member
Nice, thanks!
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
1) Valid points = your opinion; I think my points are valid, too, doesn't mean I'll be a dick about it. What I will be a dick about, however, is when people berate others just because they didn't read the source material. I could give less of a fuck if you think the books are better, but please, for the love of Jules from Pulp Fiction, don't think for a minute that it makes you an authority on what is good or what other people should like.
2) Let's ban everyone that simply likes the changes made from the books? Are you serious? People who simply like either as their own entity are trolls? Surely, you must be high on a drug of some kind.
not going to happen. showrunners have said that the shooting schedule is so tight they cannot actually fit any more episodes into a season and still meet the one season per year deadline.
at least we have the fact that next book is going to be 20 episodes to look forward to... provided, of course, they don't... I don't know... make Hodor fall in love with Osha, leaving Bran and Rickon to fend for themselves... or have Dany fly across the ocean in a chariot carried by her three tiny dragons or something. Which is possible, considering the changes so far
man what apes have you been looking at! @_o
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I'll just ignore your sarcasm, which isn't really a better contribution than you seem to think my post is. But yes, I do hate negativity. Negativity is not the same as constructive criticism. I have a problem with one and not the other.
Here are my two main problems with this season:
1) Robb/Cat not finding out about Bran and Rickon - I really don't understand where they're going with this or why it was done. While I try not to compare everything to the books, this is the main one that grates me as this tragic news informs everything these characters do, from Cat releasing Jaime to Robb breaking his vows to the Freys. The characters' actions still make sense, I guess, but they're going to find out eventually and I don't understand what will happen at that point.
2) The Jon/Qhorin stuff came across as relatively contrived independent of the books' existence, between Qhorin peacing out to leave Jon to not kill Ygritte, and Rattleshirt randomly going "No, let them fight!" and then cutting Jon loose immediately. When you then consider that the book had a perfectly good way of doing it, the changes seem unneeded.
With Arya, I'm not too bothered, assuming we see the devastation in the country throughout the next two seasons as I imagine we will. Dany's story, while weak this season, I think was better than what I recall of the book overall. HOTU was inferior but was bound to be.
velvet_nitemare
Member
I'm with you, but i'm guessing it's because a 10 episode GoT season is more costly than most 12 episode seasons of other shows. The show would have been too expensive to make otherwise.
I was actually hoping they would have been given a growth spurt while in THotU. I was a bit disappointed they weren't.
Cornballer
Member
Content Roundup:
Reviews:
- EW.com
- WiC.net (not posted yet, but it should be there later tonight)
- memles @ cultural learnings
Other content:
- Inside the Episode feature for this week (HBO video)
- EW.com with some news on the finale and S3 from D&D
Reviews:
- EW.com
- WiC.net (not posted yet, but it should be there later tonight)
- memles @ cultural learnings
Other content:
- Inside the Episode feature for this week (HBO video)
- EW.com with some news on the finale and S3 from D&D
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
That, combined with the fact that they used all of the footage they shot for season one, is kind of amazing. They are squeezing the very last drops out of themselves to put it into this show.
At first, i disliked this scene because I thought it already contradicted where they committed to each other. Then it dawned on me that this was an anti-romance scene. Tyrion basically picked his role in the game (Even diminished) over her. He couldn't protect her as the Hand, so I wonder how long she can last now that he's nothing and Cercei is suspecting of her.
Hopefully Tywin is smart enough to know that Tyrion is the brains behind the throne.
shira
Member
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
A man known as Jay Gatsby could probably help you make sense of it.
I lol'd.
To be honest I never quite the understood what are the others supposed to look like, but I imagined them as having reflective, ice-like skin. I'm fine with how they look in the show though. Look scary enough.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I'm pretty sure she is a wight.
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