Support NeoGAF

[Gila]

Apparently, people shit talk him on the streets when he's just out and about lol. Poor kid is going to have it rough

Joffrey the character? or Jack Gleeson?

 

[ValleyJoe]

My main gripe with the premiere is the fact that they stuck the prologue in the middle of the episode. Just like the books, introducing these new characters BEFORE returning to the old ones is a far more effective way of showing you who they are, what role they play in the world, and making you give a shit.

The choice to start with the scene with Sir Dontos was kind of weird, and I was really expecting them to do the prologue scene as a cold opening. I was surprised and a little disappointed when I started the episode on HBO Go and it went straight into the opening sequence. Introducing Davos, Melisandre and Stannis halfway through took a lot of momentum out of the episode, and if I hadn't read the books I'd be wondering why they took me out of all the other things going on to show me these characters I've never seen before.

I think starting the episode with the prologue from book 2 would have been a horrible decision, especially for non book readers. You would essentially be starting with two characters you have never seen before, having a long discussion about two others characters we have never seen before, culminating in one character we have never seen trying to poison another character we have never seen. You would probably have to have 5-10 solid minutes of just plot exposition to even get the audience to understand why the Maester tries to poison Melisandre. I think switching the order of the poisoning and the burning of the gods made a ton of sense when you account for non book readers. It allowed the audience to meet Stannis and Mel. It visually establishes that the Maester feels that Melisandre is evil and blasphemous for burning his gods without having to go into a huge amount of dialogue. Made perfect sense to me. I think starting with the prologue as it is written in the book would have been confusing as fuck to anyone who hadn't read the book.

 

[Socreges]

Also, I don't know how to cover up spoilers

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

My god I had forgotten just how amazing the production values of this show were. Everything looks so good, and the use of cg backgrounds is phenomenal. Spectacular premiere.

 

[Kammie]

I don't say this intending to attack anyone but I think you guys are kind of delusional with comments like "The best show on TV since The Wire" and "This show can do no wrong anymore."

Budgetary and time constraints have butchered the quality of GRRM's writing since the beginning. I was hoping they'd rectify some of the issues going into season 2, but it really seems like more of the same crap. The writers are just checking off items in a list of shit that needs to happen, and to get there they often invent things for the characters to do that betray who they're supposed to be in the first place. There are changes I can accept, like Jaime being a pussified version of himself or Cersei allowing Tyrion to peck her on the cheek. But then there's stuff like the meeting between Cersei and Littefinger, which just doesn't even make sense from a rational point of view. Why would Littlefinger ever threaten her? Why is she going around the courtyard yelling in front of guards and servants that they've lost Arya Stark? There's too many instances of stuff not making the slightest sense. And there's some big issues for me, like for example Tyrion

Spoiler

just straight up bringing Shae into the castle, which makes me assume the whole daddy issue thing is going to be glossed over, along with his obsession with Shae).

There are also some things I can't understand, such as why so much focus is given to a character like the whore that went to King's Landing (why is she even still here??). Or why, riding off the high of the end of last season, this episode starts out with Joffrey's birthday party. The proper way to start this is like the book: with the comet, the prophecy, and Stannis, who is one of the driving forces behind the "clash of kings." You need to set up a theme, some type of conflict, give the viewer an idea of what's to be expected this season. Then you give everyone Tyrion and Jon Snow or whatever. Starting off with Ser Dontos is just poor writing. It makes the show feel even more aimless than it already was.

And on the nitpicking side, the special effects are still pretty bad. The comet shots are laughable. Dany feeds and looks at the air instead of the dragon, and when she turns her hand 90 degrees to put him inside his cage he's always facing towards the left. And Jaime's reaction to Grey Wind looks somebody was holding a piece of moldy cheese to his face, except the moldy cheese was imaginary and he had to pretend to see and smell it.

I probably won't continue watching, anyway... The whole thing just feels passionless to me. And the only reason I stuck with it is because I like the books, otherwise I'd have dropped it long ago.

 

[Solo]

My god I had forgotten just how amazing the production values of this show were.

Haven't watched the premiere yet (minutes away, though), but that quite often was not true of S1. I'm hoping S2 has received a deserved budget spike.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Haven't watched the premiere yet (minutes away, though), but that quite often was not true of S1. I'm hoping S2 has received a deserved budget spike.

It has and you'll notice it. We finally get establishing shots!

 

[K-Style]

and I have to agree, I want to say I saw the guy in another show. He played the role flawlessly.

Also: I hope Snow gets much much more dialog in this season than the first episode suggested.

Nicely set up scene from the walk through the forest right up to the house. Then the old bear and Craster were great.
I just wasn't sure about the way Gilly suddenly appears and delivers her (intentionally) awkward lines.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

It has and you'll notice it. We finally get establishing shots!

Yeah its definitely noticeable.

 

[Solo]

It has and you'll notice it. We finally get establishing shots!

Silly question to ask since Im just about to watch it, but does it feel less "stagey" than S1 often did? That was my biggest gripe about S1's production, that you were so often pulled out of the experience due to the obvious soundstage work, which didn't look convincing at all especially when it directly followed the lovely location shooting.

 

[Piecake]

I kind of agree, the Hound should be a scary mother fucker

I think fierce would be a better adjective. Someone fierce and intimidating. I kinda got that vibe off of the actor in the first season when he is chasing Sansa through the keep, so i think he can do it (maybe not pull off Sandor's other qualities though), but I just dont think he gets enough lines, or GOOD lines to pull off that personality

 

[Steelyuhas]

LOL

Small peeve about the opening credits from last night's episode. The camera still going to Dothraki Sea/Vaes Dothrak instead of to the Red Waste and the same thing with not going north of The Wall, but the camera just zooming in on The Wall.

ACOK spoilers

Spoiler

Hopefully that will change when Dany gets to Qarth and the Night's Watch gets to the Fist of the First Men, as they may be landmark locations enough to mark on the map.

The establishing shots in the episode were great, so much better than in season 1. One of my personal favs was the shot for the Stark camp. The camera drift and the musical score were great.

Also, loved the new score in the episode.

Summer avatar get!

 

[Neffarias_Bredd]

I don't say this intending to attack anyone but I think you guys are kind of delusional with comments like "The best show on TV since The Wire" and "This show can do no wrong anymore."

Budgetary and time constraints have butchered the quality of GRRM's writing since the beginning. I was hoping they'd rectify some of the issues going into season 2, but it really seems like more of the same crap. The writers are just checking off items in a list of shit that needs to happen, and to get there they often invent things for the characters to do that betray who they're supposed to be in the first place. There are changes I can accept, like Jaime being a pussified version of himself or Cersei allowing Tyrion to peck her on the cheek. But then there's stuff like the meeting between Cersei and Littefinger, which just doesn't even make sense from a rational point of view. Why would Littlefinger ever threaten her? Why is she going around the courtyard yelling in front of guards and servants that they've lost Arya Stark? There's too many instances of stuff not making the slightest sense. And there's some big issues for me, like for example Tyrion

Spoiler

just straight up bringing Shae into the castle, which makes me assume the whole daddy issue thing is going to be glossed over, along with his obsession with Shae).

There are also some things I can't understand, such as why so much focus is given to a character like the whore that went to King's Landing (why is she even still here??). Or why, riding off the high of the end of last season, this episode starts out with Joffrey's birthday party. The proper way to start this is like the book: with the comet, the prophecy, and Stannis, who is one of the driving forces behind the "clash of kings." You need to set up a theme, some type of conflict, give the viewer an idea of what's to be expected this season. Then you give everyone Tyrion and Jon Snow or whatever. Starting off with Ser Dontos is just poor writing. It makes the show feel even more aimless than it already was.

And on the nitpicking side, the special effects are still pretty bad. The comet shots are laughable. Dany feeds and looks at the air instead of the dragon, and when she turns her hand 90 degrees to put him inside his cage he's always facing towards the left. And Jaime's reaction to Grey Wind looks somebody was holding a piece of moldy cheese to his face, except the moldy cheese was imaginary and he had to pretend to see and smell it.

I probably won't continue watching, anyway... The whole thing just feels passionless to me. And the only reason I stuck with it is because I like the books, otherwise I'd have dropped it long ago.

I know it's almost impossible, but try not to compare it to the books. The show is great, as are the books. You'll enjoy the show a lot more if you can separate the two as two separate entities

 

[Chuck Norris]

I don't say this intending to attack anyone but I think you guys are kind of delusional with comments like "The best show on TV since The Wire" and "This show can do no wrong anymore."

Budgetary and time constraints have butchered the quality of GRRM's writing since the beginning. I was hoping they'd rectify some of the issues going into season 2, but it really seems like more of the same crap. The writers are just checking off items in a list of shit that needs to happen, and to get there they often invent things for the characters to do that betray who they're supposed to be in the first place. There are changes I can accept, like Jaime being a pussified version of himself or Cersei allowing Tyrion to peck her on the cheek. But then there's stuff like the meeting between Cersei and Littefinger, which just doesn't even make sense from a rational point of view. Why would Littlefinger ever threaten her? Why is she going around the courtyard yelling in front of guards and servants that they've lost Arya Stark? There's too many instances of stuff not making the slightest sense. And there's some big issues for me, like for example Tyrion

Spoiler

just straight up bringing Shae into the castle, which makes me assume the whole daddy issue thing is going to be glossed over, along with his obsession with Shae).

There are also some things I can't understand, such as why so much focus is given to a character like the whore that went to King's Landing (why is she even still here??). Or why, riding off the high of the end of last season, this episode starts out with Joffrey's birthday party. The proper way to start this is like the book: with the comet, the prophecy, and Stannis, who is one of the driving forces behind the "clash of kings." You need to set up a theme, some type of conflict, give the viewer an idea of what's to be expected this season. Then you give everyone Tyrion and Jon Snow or whatever. Starting off with Ser Dontos is just poor writing. It makes the show feel even more aimless than it already was.

And on the nitpicking side, the special effects are still pretty bad. The comet shots are laughable. Dany feeds and looks at the air instead of the dragon, and when she turns her hand 90 degrees to put him inside his cage he's always facing towards the left. And Jaime's reaction to Grey Wind looks somebody was holding a piece of moldy cheese to his face, except the moldy cheese was imaginary and he had to pretend to see and smell it.

I probably won't continue watching, anyway... The whole thing just feels passionless to me. And the only reason I stuck with it is because I like the books, otherwise I'd have dropped it long ago.

I can agree with some of your points but come on, the CGI is really good. Far better than I've seen in any other TV show, it's not even close really.

Tyrion's whore should've been dropped from the series altogether. The actress is annoyingly bad.

 

[Kilrogg]

Just rewatched the Small Council scene with Tyrion over and over. Peter Dinklage's facial expressions are top notch. The way he contains his laughter is priceless.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Silly question to ask since Im just about to watch it, but does it feel less "stagey" than S1 often did? That was my biggest gripe about S1's production, that you were so often pulled out of the experience due to the obvious soundstage work, which didn't look convincing at all especially when it directly followed the lovely location shooting.

Yeah, I think it's less stagey. I had the same problem last season. Either I'm just used to it and not noticing it anymore or they've done a much better job at the sets, which I think is the case. The production values look a lot better this season.

edit: Of course we also spent a lot of time outside during this episode

 

[Solo]

Sounds good. Time to watch!

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Silly question to ask since Im just about to watch it, but does it feel less "stagey" than S1 often did? That was my biggest gripe about S1's production, that you were so often pulled out of the experience due to the obvious soundstage work, which didn't look convincing at all especially when it directly followed the lovely location shooting.

Some of it still feels "stagey" just because the sets are much smaller than the books counterparts would be and you can feel that at times.

 

[1stStrike]

Joffrey the character? or Jack Gleeson?

The kid. GRRM mentioned it in an interview - people will yell at him on the streets even when he's not playing the role of Joffrey.

Here's the link: http://youtu.be/QlJblxV3QHQ?t=11m43s

 

[K-Style]

I don't say this intending to attack anyone but I think you guys are kind of delusional with comments like "The best show on TV since The Wire" and "This show can do no wrong anymore."

Budgetary and time constraints have butchered the quality of GRRM's writing since the beginning. I was hoping they'd rectify some of the issues going into season 2, but it really seems like more of the same crap. The writers are just checking off items in a list of shit that needs to happen, and to get there they often invent things for the characters to do that betray who they're supposed to be in the first place. There are changes I can accept, like Jaime being a pussified version of himself or Cersei allowing Tyrion to peck her on the cheek. But then there's stuff like the meeting between Cersei and Littefinger, which just doesn't even make sense from a rational point of view. Why would Littlefinger ever threaten her? Why is she going around the courtyard yelling in front of guards and servants that they've lost Arya Stark? There's too many instances of stuff not making the slightest sense. And there's some big issues for me, like for example Tyrion

Spoiler

just straight up bringing Shae into the castle, which makes me assume the whole daddy issue thing is going to be glossed over, along with his obsession with Shae).

There are also some things I can't understand, such as why so much focus is given to a character like the whore that went to King's Landing (why is she even still here??). Or why, riding off the high of the end of last season, this episode starts out with Joffrey's birthday party. The proper way to start this is like the book: with the comet, the prophecy, and Stannis, who is one of the driving forces behind the "clash of kings." You need to set up a theme, some type of conflict, give the viewer an idea of what's to be expected this season. Then you give everyone Tyrion and Jon Snow or whatever. Starting off with Ser Dontos is just poor writing. It makes the show feel even more aimless than it already was.

And on the nitpicking side, the special effects are still pretty bad. The comet shots are laughable. Dany feeds and looks at the air instead of the dragon, and when she turns her hand 90 degrees to put him inside his cage he's always facing towards the left. And Jaime's reaction to Grey Wind looks somebody was holding a piece of moldy cheese to his face, except the moldy cheese was imaginary and he had to pretend to see and smell it.

I probably won't continue watching, anyway... The whole thing just feels passionless to me. And the only reason I stuck with it is because I like the books, otherwise I'd have dropped it long ago.

I feel the same way to some extent. The very first episode is what got me onto the books but I'm glad I've read the books. Last nights episode was all over the place.

 

[vehn]

http://talsemgeest.info/standard-map.png

why does robb need to go past the twins in s1. Can't he go down the kings road.

 

[Piecake]

why does robb need to go past the twins in s1. Can't he go down the kings road.

thats where Papa Lannister is

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

Tyrion's whore should've been dropped from the series altogether. The actress is annoyingly bad.

I wished the Hound or Shagga just burst into the tower and tossed Shae off the balcony. Splat.

Ugh...sure, she's not bad looking but she is just obnoxious. I never liked her in the book much but the whole mysterious foreigner angle they're doing in the show is just stupid unless they're going to somehow make her more important otherwise its a waste of time.

As for Joffrey, haters gonna hate.

 

[Steelyuhas]

why does robb need to go past the twins in s1. Can't he go down the kings road.

Well some of them didn't need to (the forces that attacked Tywin), but he needed to lead his forces south directly at Riverrun to launch his attack on Jaime while the other force attacked Tywin.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Dinklage getting first credit in the opening, neat.

I liked this episode a lot more than a lot of season one, but it's still not quite there, for me. I love Clash of Kings, so that's enough for me to keep watching, out of curiosity if nothing else, but I'm not convinced the writers have managed to create a TV show that works as a TV show alone. At the moment it still feels like a weird companion piece to the books, like the latter Harry Potter movies, I guess. Interesting for fans of the books, but there hasn't been a compensation made between what a book can communicate via narration and sheer volume and the constraints of a fifty-minute TV show. As a result, most of the characters and storylines still don't feel like they have room to breath.

Honestly, I'd have rathered it if they'd just paired down the storylines in the books even further. I'd rather a great TV show that strays wildly from the source material than a "just ok" TV show that tries but can't possibly hope to communicate everything that happens in the book. The end result of the latter often comes off as forced, cliched and tacky.

 

[Slurpy2k20]

I don't say this intending to attack anyone but I think you guys are kind of delusional with comments like "The best show on TV since The Wire" and "This show can do no wrong anymore."

Budgetary and time constraints have butchered the quality of GRRM's writing since the beginning. I was hoping they'd rectify some of the issues going into season 2, but it really seems like more of the same crap. The writers are just checking off items in a list of shit that needs to happen, and to get there they often invent things for the characters to do that betray who they're supposed to be in the first place. There are changes I can accept, like Jaime being a pussified version of himself or Cersei allowing Tyrion to peck her on the cheek. But then there's stuff like the meeting between Cersei and Littefinger, which just doesn't even make sense from a rational point of view. Why would Littlefinger ever threaten her? Why is she going around the courtyard yelling in front of guards and servants that they've lost Arya Stark? There's too many instances of stuff not making the slightest sense. And there's some big issues for me, like for example Tyrion

Spoiler

just straight up bringing Shae into the castle, which makes me assume the whole daddy issue thing is going to be glossed over, along with his obsession with Shae).

There are also some things I can't understand, such as why so much focus is given to a character like the whore that went to King's Landing (why is she even still here??). Or why, riding off the high of the end of last season, this episode starts out with Joffrey's birthday party. The proper way to start this is like the book: with the comet, the prophecy, and Stannis, who is one of the driving forces behind the "clash of kings." You need to set up a theme, some type of conflict, give the viewer an idea of what's to be expected this season. Then you give everyone Tyrion and Jon Snow or whatever. Starting off with Ser Dontos is just poor writing. It makes the show feel even more aimless than it already was.

And on the nitpicking side, the special effects are still pretty bad. The comet shots are laughable. Dany feeds and looks at the air instead of the dragon, and when she turns her hand 90 degrees to put him inside his cage he's always facing towards the left. And Jaime's reaction to Grey Wind looks somebody was holding a piece of moldy cheese to his face, except the moldy cheese was imaginary and he had to pretend to see and smell it.

I probably won't continue watching, anyway... The whole thing just feels passionless to me. And the only reason I stuck with it is because I like the books, otherwise I'd have dropped it long ago.

Blah Blah Blah. Good, don't watch. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Just as long as we don't need to read your whiny bitching the entire season. Seriously, everything in your post is nerd rage over the smallest, most nit picky crap. Jaime's reaction wasn't exactly to your liking? Really? The dragon doesn't face the direction you want him to face? The comet doesn't look right? The fact that you need to find inane stuff like this to bitch about proves they're doing something right. Just ditch the show and stick with the books. The fact that you come to such grandiose conclusions over the 1st ep, which primarily is introducing characters, is incredible. Grow up and trying to understand that this show wasn't made exclusively for lovers of the book, but to a wide audience, and the decisions are catered towards them. Personally, the books bore the fuck out of me with their endless exposition and slow pace, so I'm all for the writers taking every liberty they can to make a good show.

 

[Socreges]

I don't say this intending to attack anyone but I think you guys are kind of delusional with comments like "The best show on TV since The Wire" and "This show can do no wrong anymore."

Budgetary and time constraints have butchered the quality of GRRM's writing since the beginning. I was hoping they'd rectify some of the issues going into season 2, but it really seems like more of the same crap. The writers are just checking off items in a list of shit that needs to happen, and to get there they often invent things for the characters to do that betray who they're supposed to be in the first place. There are changes I can accept, like Jaime being a pussified version of himself or Cersei allowing Tyrion to peck her on the cheek. But then there's stuff like the meeting between Cersei and Littefinger, which just doesn't even make sense from a rational point of view. Why would Littlefinger ever threaten her? Why is she going around the courtyard yelling in front of guards and servants that they've lost Arya Stark? There's too many instances of stuff not making the slightest sense. And there's some big issues for me, like for example Tyrion

Spoiler

just straight up bringing Shae into the castle, which makes me assume the whole daddy issue thing is going to be glossed over, along with his obsession with Shae).

There are also some things I can't understand, such as why so much focus is given to a character like the whore that went to King's Landing (why is she even still here??). Or why, riding off the high of the end of last season, this episode starts out with Joffrey's birthday party. The proper way to start this is like the book: with the comet, the prophecy, and Stannis, who is one of the driving forces behind the "clash of kings." You need to set up a theme, some type of conflict, give the viewer an idea of what's to be expected this season. Then you give everyone Tyrion and Jon Snow or whatever. Starting off with Ser Dontos is just poor writing. It makes the show feel even more aimless than it already was.

And on the nitpicking side, the special effects are still pretty bad. The comet shots are laughable. Dany feeds and looks at the air instead of the dragon, and when she turns her hand 90 degrees to put him inside his cage he's always facing towards the left. And Jaime's reaction to Grey Wind looks somebody was holding a piece of moldy cheese to his face, except the moldy cheese was imaginary and he had to pretend to see and smell it.

I probably won't continue watching, anyway... The whole thing just feels passionless to me. And the only reason I stuck with it is because I like the books, otherwise I'd have dropped it long ago.

Apart from your hyperbole and the absurd CG criticisms, I mostly agree. The Cersei/Littlefinger scene was pretty bad and I'd be very interested in hearing why they changed up the beginning. GRRM actually writes the show with Benioff and Weiss so he must have suggested or at least approved the change. Maybe they thought a different approach was required since it's a different audience. Either way I agree that the comet/Dragonstone opening would have been better.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Really liked the first episode but there were a couple of points that utterly perplexed me.

The fist was Master Cresson drinking first, this ruined the entire point of the scene. Cresson was meant to cold heartedly murder Mel for enforcing her religion on Stannis not sacrifice himself purposely. This would lead to him (and the viewer) seeing that she actually has great power whilst he comes to the horrific realisation that he'd need to drink from the cup or be burnt alive. The sacrifice leads the viewer to think Cresson's intention are more noble than he should be, whilst Mel looks like an arrogant jerk who just drinks to flaunt how power (rather than to defeat and utterly shame her enemy). Utterly ruins a great scene from the book that framed Mel perfectly for no reason at all.

The second issue I had was with Littlefinger acting like a fucking numpty, his exchange with Cersi was painfully out of character and I don't think I need to go any more detail than that. I Enjoyed the rest but those two scene had me pulling my hair out.

 

[big ander]

I also don't think this show is an all-time great already. I'm only on Season 2 of the wire, but I'd have to say I enjoyed s1 of The Wire more than Season 1 of GoT. That said, Thrones is an excellent show and it's nice to see some all-out dark fantasy on TV.

Also, I don't know how to cover up spoilers, but I was wondering what event everyone foresees as the ending (major) event in this season. [aka: Eddard's Beheading is to AGOT as ??? is to ACOK]

thanks

gaf has an entire FAQ forum. I wonder if there is information on how to mark spoilers in there

 

[Neffarias_Bredd]

I feel like everyone would enjoy the show more if they could separate the books from the show. I went crazy during the first season comparing everything and realized I wasn't enjoying the show. Once I stopped doing that and just watched the show for what it was, everything became a lot more enjoyable

 

[K-Style]

Really liked the first episode but there were a couple of points that utterly perplexed me.

The fist was Master Cresson drinking first, this ruined the entire point of the scene. Cresson was meant to cold heartedly murder Mel for enforcing her religion on Stannis not sacrifice himself purposely. This would lead to him (and the viewer) seeing that she actually has great power whilst he comes to the horrific realisation that he'd need to drink from the cup or be burnt alive. The sacrifice leads the viewer to think Cresson's intention are more noble than he should be, whilst Mel looks like an arrogant jerk who just drinks to flaunt how power (rather than to defeat and utterly shame her enemy). Utterly ruins a great scene from the book that outlined Mel perfectly for no reason at all.

The second issue I had was with Littlefinger acting like a fucking numpty, his exchange with Cersi was painfully out of character and I don't think I need to go any more detail than that. I Enjoyed the rest but those two scene had me pulling my hair out.

Cresson was pretty much dead on the floor before she drank. IF he had to drink first they should have made him last a bit longer. Perhaps just a slight nosebleed - no stumble - before she drinks...

Edit: I didn't mind the switch with the poisoning and burning of the 7. That played out nicely.

 

[MrGame&Watch]

I won't be reading the books until this series is over. All of you guys are jaded and hate what I think to be one of the best television shows of the century.

 

[IAmtheFMan]

I feel like everyone would enjoy the show more if they could separate the books from the show. I went crazy during the first season comparing everything and realized I wasn't enjoying the show. Once I stopped doing that and just watched the show for what it was, everything became a lot more enjoyable

You speak the truth.

 

[KingK]

I think fierce would be a better adjective. Someone fierce and intimidating. I kinda got that vibe off of the actor in the first season when he is chasing Sansa through the keep, so i think he can do it (maybe not pull off Sandor's other qualities though), but I just dont think he gets enough lines, or GOOD lines to pull off that personality

The actor's audition video really sold me on him as the Hound. I think it's just a matter of them not giving him enough dialogue in the show. They really should have had him explain his origins to Sansa like in the book rather than have Littlefinger do it. It would have been a much more effective scene.

 

[ValleyJoe]

I don't say this intending to attack anyone but I think you guys are kind of delusional with comments like "The best show on TV since The Wire" and "This show can do no wrong anymore."

Budgetary and time constraints have butchered the quality of GRRM's writing since the beginning. I was hoping they'd rectify some of the issues going into season 2, but it really seems like more of the same crap. The writers are just checking off items in a list of shit that needs to happen, and to get there they often invent things for the characters to do that betray who they're supposed to be in the first place. There are changes I can accept, like Jaime being a pussified version of himself or Cersei allowing Tyrion to peck her on the cheek. But then there's stuff like the meeting between Cersei and Littefinger, which just doesn't even make sense from a rational point of view. Why would Littlefinger ever threaten her? Why is she going around the courtyard yelling in front of guards and servants that they've lost Arya Stark? There's too many instances of stuff not making the slightest sense. And there's some big issues for me, like for example Tyrion

Spoiler

just straight up bringing Shae into the castle, which makes me assume the whole daddy issue thing is going to be glossed over, along with his obsession with Shae).

There are also some things I can't understand, such as why so much focus is given to a character like the whore that went to King's Landing (why is she even still here??). Or why, riding off the high of the end of last season, this episode starts out with Joffrey's birthday party. The proper way to start this is like the book: with the comet, the prophecy, and Stannis, who is one of the driving forces behind the "clash of kings." You need to set up a theme, some type of conflict, give the viewer an idea of what's to be expected this season. Then you give everyone Tyrion and Jon Snow or whatever. Starting off with Ser Dontos is just poor writing. It makes the show feel even more aimless than it already was.

And on the nitpicking side, the special effects are still pretty bad. The comet shots are laughable. Dany feeds and looks at the air instead of the dragon, and when she turns her hand 90 degrees to put him inside his cage he's always facing towards the left. And Jaime's reaction to Grey Wind looks somebody was holding a piece of moldy cheese to his face, except the moldy cheese was imaginary and he had to pretend to see and smell it.

I probably won't continue watching, anyway... The whole thing just feels passionless to me. And the only reason I stuck with it is because I like the books, otherwise I'd have dropped it long ago.

You should be thankful that some network even had the balls to take this project on. The fact that you want it to adhere strictly to the source material in a completely different medium is frankly absurd. I personally hope they make some massive changes when they get to book 4 and 5 because I found them to be seriously lacking compared to the first 3. Frankly, I wouldn't even mind them completely excising some of the more mind numbingly dull plot lines. Laughable how ungrateful and unrealistic hardcore fanboys can be when things don't go exactly the way they feel they should. I'm happy to just see a story and characters I've enjoyed for 10 years actually being made into a visual representation that isn't a complete piece of shit like most fantasy adaptions turn out to be. I think you would be much better off not watching anymore, because there is obviously no way they can pull off what you were hoping for.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I feel like everyone would enjoy the show more if they could separate the books from the show. I went crazy during the first season comparing everything and realized I wasn't enjoying the show. Once I stopped doing that and just watched the show for what it was, everything became a lot more enjoyable

For about the first 5 epsiodes I had to watch each episode twice to appreciate. The first time I was nitpicking everything and just counting the differences. Then with my second viewing I was able to seperate things better and enjoy it just as a show. Eventually my nitpicking faded and I no longer heavily compared it to the books. It's much better that way.

People who have read the books for the first time after season 1 may also have this problem with season 2. The first few episodes of the first season felt like they were rushing through the story with no time to breathe, and I've seen this complaint on Season 2 Episode 1. I thought it the episode was fine for the most part and took its time where it needed to. The only scenes that felt maybe a little odd to me was the first scene and Cressen poisoning Mel.

 

[Randdalf]

Yeah, I really wish they had a cold open prologue for each series. I guess the one thing about the Maester Cressen scenes in the book is that a lot of it is internal monologue and introducing the characters, that doesn't really work on television.

 

[Emerson]

For about the first 5 epsiodes I had to watch each episode twice to appreciate. The first time I was nitpicking everything and just counting the differences. Then with my second viewing I was able to seperate things better and enjoy it just as a show. Eventually my nitpicking faded and I no longer heavily compared it to the books. It's much better that way.

People who have read the books for the first time after season 1 may also have this problem with season 2. The first few episodes of the first season felt like they were rushing through the story with no time to breathe, and I've seen this complaint on Season 2 Episode 1. I thought it the episode was fine for the most part and took its time where it needed to. The only scenes that felt maybe a little odd to me was the first scene and Cressen poisoning Mel.

For whatever reason this thread seems a lot more negative than the last season's was. It's perplexing to me because I thought almost everything about this episode was better than last season. Sure, it's setup, but that should be expected. I'm glad I've never had a need to compare the show and books endlessly. I love both independently.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

For whatever reason this thread seems a lot more negative than the last season's was. It's perplexing to me because I thought almost everything about this episode was better than last season. Sure, it's setup, but that should be expected. I'm glad I've never had a need to compare the show and books endlessly. I love both independently.

Yeah, the new episode was great. I think this season is going to be a huge improvement over the first, which I really liked.

 

[Hieberrr]

People should stop comparing it to the book. Keep doing that and you'll just set yourself up for disappointment.

I thought the episode was great... event after watching it twice. Of course, there were some noticeable "problems", but it's nothing that's going to drive me nuts. I mean, it's not like I'm comparing it to the original content or anything.

T'was fine to me.

 

[JoJoShabadoo]

I don't say this intending to attack anyone but I think you guys are kind of delusional with comments like "The best show on TV since The Wire" and "This show can do no wrong anymore."

Budgetary and time constraints have butchered the quality of GRRM's writing since the beginning. I was hoping they'd rectify some of the issues going into season 2, but it really seems like more of the same crap. The writers are just checking off items in a list of shit that needs to happen, and to get there they often invent things for the characters to do that betray who they're supposed to be in the first place. There are changes I can accept, like Jaime being a pussified version of himself or Cersei allowing Tyrion to peck her on the cheek. But then there's stuff like the meeting between Cersei and Littefinger, which just doesn't even make sense from a rational point of view. Why would Littlefinger ever threaten her? Why is she going around the courtyard yelling in front of guards and servants that they've lost Arya Stark? There's too many instances of stuff not making the slightest sense. And there's some big issues for me, like for example Tyrion

Spoiler

just straight up bringing Shae into the castle, which makes me assume the whole daddy issue thing is going to be glossed over, along with his obsession with Shae).

There are also some things I can't understand, such as why so much focus is given to a character like the whore that went to King's Landing (why is she even still here??). Or why, riding off the high of the end of last season, this episode starts out with Joffrey's birthday party. The proper way to start this is like the book: with the comet, the prophecy, and Stannis, who is one of the driving forces behind the "clash of kings." You need to set up a theme, some type of conflict, give the viewer an idea of what's to be expected this season. Then you give everyone Tyrion and Jon Snow or whatever. Starting off with Ser Dontos is just poor writing. It makes the show feel even more aimless than it already was.

And on the nitpicking side, the special effects are still pretty bad. The comet shots are laughable. Dany feeds and looks at the air instead of the dragon, and when she turns her hand 90 degrees to put him inside his cage he's always facing towards the left. And Jaime's reaction to Grey Wind looks somebody was holding a piece of moldy cheese to his face, except the moldy cheese was imaginary and he had to pretend to see and smell it.

I probably won't continue watching, anyway... The whole thing just feels passionless to me. And the only reason I stuck with it is because I like the books, otherwise I'd have dropped it long ago.

I 100% agree with this post. The show takes too many shortcuts that just betray the logic of the series and it's characters. Why would Cressen slip poison into a cup of wine at a council meeting. It was just too obvious that something was up, his hand on Davos' shoulder, his look to Melisandre. What reason did he have to drink first and then hand her the cup? Where was the tension of her telling him to drink first like in the book? Why wasn't this scene held in a party, where the music and laughter of festivity in the background adds atmosphere. How are we to know Cressen's motivations anyways? As far as we know, he's a religious nut that doesn't want his king to abandon the seven gods. Why wasn't this the final scene instead of a drawn out shot of people slowly walking through a peaceful looking forest instead of a burnt out post-war wasteland? Where was there any indication that Kings Landing is turning into a shithole? The visual symbolism in the kingdom going to shit is there for the taking but the producers prefer portraying a peaceful courtyard in which Cersei loudly yells in front of guards and servants (read: Vary's spies) that they lost a Stark (game-changing news)

This premiere has been incredibly disappointing, in that the producers have apparently not gotten their act together to fix their mistakes. There's no suspense or tension, no time to breathe. "Kill him! Stop! Close your eyes" There's no time to spare, we don't need a second scene of whores being instructed on how to properly entertain guests by a new character that adds nothing to the story.

The show just feels like a stage play, complete with actors playing dress up. Why in the opening scene does Tyrion just waddle in unceremoniously from stage left. And as you've mentioned, why is the opening scene a fight between two unknowns as if the show just came back from a commercial break and not an 8 month hiatus.

 

[Socreges]

I won't be reading the books until this series is over. All of you guys are jaded and hate what I think to be one of the best television shows of the century.

Huh? Some people are very happy with it, some are unhappy with just certain parts, but just a few seem to be what you're describing.

 

[apana]

Blah Blah Blah. Good, don't watch. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Just as long as we don't need to read your whiny bitching the entire season. Seriously, everything in your post is nerd rage over the smallest, most nit picky crap. Jaime's reaction wasn't exactly to your liking? Really? The dragon doesn't face the direction you want him to face? The comet doesn't look right? The fact that you need to find inane stuff like this to bitch about proves they're doing something right. Just ditch the show and stick with the books. The fact that you come to such grandiose conclusions over the 1st ep, which primarily is introducing characters, is incredible. Grow up and trying to understand that this show wasn't made exclusively for lovers of the book, but to a wide audience, and the decisions are catered towards them. Personally, the books bore the fuck out of me with their endless exposition and slow pace, so I'm all for the writers taking every liberty they can to make a good show.

Yikes people, relax.

 

[ValleyJoe]

For whatever reason this thread seems a lot more negative than the last season's was. It's perplexing to me because I thought almost everything about this episode was better than last season. Sure, it's setup, but that should be expected. I'm glad I've never had a need to compare the show and books endlessly. I love both independently.

I agree completely. I really don't get why some people are so obsessed with having everything exactly the same and if it isn't then its automatically garbage and so offensive that it's not even worth watching. Absurd. I actually think its kinda fun seeing other peoples interpretation of GRRMs source material and seeing them make changes to fit the medium better.

 

[scosher]

This is one of the best book adaptations to screen I've seen in a long time. Sure some scenes are rushed, but it's both very faithful to the source material, the essence of the characters, and the heart of the story. Please direct nitpicks to westeros.org.

 

[K-Style]

I won't be reading the books until this series is over. All of you guys are jaded and hate what I think to be one of the best television shows of the century.

It's probably the best away to enjoy the show. I don't hate it but the books do confuse my feelings for the show.
For the most part the casting is pretty bloody good. If I read the books again I see the Starks Jaime, Tyrion as they appear in the tv show. Some of the others (Cersei in particular) I do not.

 

[Dragon]

Huh? Some people are very happy with it, some are unhappy with just certain parts, but just a few seem to be what you're describing.

One of the best television shows of the century can be said about a number of shows like Lost that were barely into their second season. It's a bit different here because people know what happens.

Personally I want more bad ass Arya. Who cares about Gendry honestly.

 

[Subitai]

I don't say this intending to attack anyone but I think you guys are kind of delusional with comments like "The best show on TV since The Wire" and "This show can do no wrong anymore."

Budgetary and time constraints have butchered the quality of GRRM's writing since the beginning. I was hoping they'd rectify some of the issues going into season 2, but it really seems like more of the same crap. The writers are just checking off items in a list of shit that needs to happen, and to get there they often invent things for the characters to do that betray who they're supposed to be in the first place. There are changes I can accept, like Jaime being a pussified version of himself or Cersei allowing Tyrion to peck her on the cheek. But then there's stuff like the meeting between Cersei and Littefinger, which just doesn't even make sense from a rational point of view. Why would Littlefinger ever threaten her? Why is she going around the courtyard yelling in front of guards and servants that they've lost Arya Stark? There's too many instances of stuff not making the slightest sense. And there's some big issues for me, like for example Tyrion

Spoiler

just straight up bringing Shae into the castle, which makes me assume the whole daddy issue thing is going to be glossed over, along with his obsession with Shae).

There are also some things I can't understand, such as why so much focus is given to a character like the whore that went to King's Landing (why is she even still here??). Or why, riding off the high of the end of last season, this episode starts out with Joffrey's birthday party. The proper way to start this is like the book: with the comet, the prophecy, and Stannis, who is one of the driving forces behind the "clash of kings." You need to set up a theme, some type of conflict, give the viewer an idea of what's to be expected this season. Then you give everyone Tyrion and Jon Snow or whatever. Starting off with Ser Dontos is just poor writing. It makes the show feel even more aimless than it already was.

And on the nitpicking side, the special effects are still pretty bad. The comet shots are laughable. Dany feeds and looks at the air instead of the dragon, and when she turns her hand 90 degrees to put him inside his cage he's always facing towards the left. And Jaime's reaction to Grey Wind looks somebody was holding a piece of moldy cheese to his face, except the moldy cheese was imaginary and he had to pretend to see and smell it.

I probably won't continue watching, anyway... The whole thing just feels passionless to me. And the only reason I stuck with it is because I like the books, otherwise I'd have dropped it long ago.

I guess I can't really disagree in general, but 10 hours is too short and anytime they've added stuff, it is to make the show work better. The LF/Cersei scene was to build to the Arya/Gendry end more and to establish that the work they did together to take down Ned was temporary and now their spy networks will be at odds if they weren't already. Littlefinger was not established as a independent operator at the end of last season the way Varys and Pycelle were. It probably cost a little to much to show Shae sneaking around in a hooded disguise like in the books. I don't think things will ever feel as tight and organic as with the Wire as far as themes, pacing, and character development, but most of us are just happy more people can experience the story being told by very respected artists.

 

[IAmtheFMan]

Please direct nitpicks to westeros.org.

And a podcast of ice and fire.

 

[Arment]

People thought the comet shots were bad? Looked fine to me.

Must suck to be that bothered that much.