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Game of Thrones *Tagged Book Spoilers, Please Read OP* |OT| Season 3 - Sundays on HBO

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I

Iksenpets

Banned
cubicle47b said:
AFFC/ADWD
I can see the Dorne plot working well in seasons 5 and 6. If Arianne goes to Kings Landing with Oberyn, witnesses his death, and comes back to Dorne angry it sets everything up nicely. She'll fight with her father over his inaction then plot to make Dorne enter the war by crowning Myrcella at the same time we're seeing Doran's plans through discussions with Areo and information relayed in Quentyn scenes. I think the biggest problem with Dorne in AFFC is it didn't feel important until the very end when Doran laid his cards on the table.

As for the Iron Islands, that story is fine as long as they cut down on the Damphair scenes. Euron and Victarion are both fucking awesome.
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AFFC/ADWD
The islands should also benefit because they can be shifted forward to season 4 while Dorne can remain in season 5, so you're not having to figure out what's going on in both of them at once.

The hardest thing will be converting Quentyn. You can't intro him early without spoiling the payoff at the end of Arianne's plot, but if you intro him late his story with Dany probably won't resonate.

cubicle47b said:
AFFC/ADWD again
Obviously the scale of AFFC/ADWD made it impossible to put out in one book but I think splitting it the way he did created a lot of issues. If it had been split so the Iron Islands, Dorne, and Essos were in one book and concluded with the battle of Mereen and King's Landing and the North were one book and concluded with the battle for Winterfell the books would have been much better received.
Click to expand...

Oh, I never thought of that, but that really would have been much better, since both AFFC/ADWD
the Iron Islands and Dorne end up tying directly into Dany.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Jibbajabbawockky said:
[ASoS MAJOR spoilers]
I do wonder how they'll handle Stoneheart, not only visually but just as a character. Cat becoming Stoneheart seems like a big deal yet as a character she really hasn't done much in the books. And she's mostly off screen. I'm guessing the show will give her more to do?

I do wonder how graphic they'll get with her visually, as that could affect how frequently she is on screen. They've already shied away from Tyrion's nose getting chopped off and Beric really doesn't look that banged up compared to how he's described in the books. But how absolutely brutal Stoneheart looks is kind of the tragedy of Cat- from her skin being all nasty from being left to rot in the river for days down to her barely being able to speak since her damn throat was slashed. Its a constant reminder of the RW. But if they try to give Michelle Fairley more to do acting wise as Stoneheart, then I'm going to guess they're not going to slop on tons of makeup on her. Then again, maybe they don't even have Fairley stick around as Stoneheart if she's not going to have a big role and instead go all out on really graphic makeup and prosthetics?

To me, Stoneheart and Beric's constant resurrections are a pretty big deal and representative of how "magic" and supernatural stuff works in Game of Thrones. You can get resurrected but its not some clean, happy thing- you're left in the same state you died and you lose a bit of yourself in the process. At least in the books, I always found that a pretty sad fate for Cat.

I really hope the RW can capture the despair and helplessness Cat feels as everything goes south for Robb and her. That chapter from her POV is brutal to read, especially as she mentally snaps.
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ASOS:
The way the show's handled Beric (and the vision of her with a scarf that Bran had) would indicate they won't be going the "murloc gurgle voice" route with her. Likely just ashen makeup and a hidden scar.
 
C

cubicle47b

Member
Iksenpets said:
AFFC/ADWD
The hardest thing will be converting Quentyn. You can't intro him early without spoiling the payoff at the end of Arianne's plot, but if you intro him late his story with Dany probably won't resonate.
Click to expand...

I think treating Quentyn as a payoff is a mistake. He should be introduced early so we see Doran's plan in action and the conflict is between Arianne and the sand snakes being wild and uncontrollable versus Doran keeping his cards too close to his chest.
 
I

Iksenpets

Banned
cubicle47b said:
I think treating Quentyn as a payoff is a mistake. He should be introduced early so we see Doran's plan in action and the conflict is between Arianne and the sand snakes being wild and uncontrollable versus Doran keeping his cards too close to his chest.
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ADWD
I just really liked the ending of Dorne in AFFC as a twist. That moment when you realize what's going on when Doran tells her that her intended husband died from a pot of molten gold over the head was great. And maybe I'm alone in this, but I sympathized with Arianne's indignation over how their family's been treated and how they seem to just be rolling over and taking it, so realizing that there was a long term plan was cool.

The way I have been playing with in my head of doing it would be having Quentyn introduced in season 5 in Essos at the same time we're seeing Dorne, but he and his friends are working under pseudonyms to avoid attention, so as far as the viewer is concerned he's just some awkward kid who's going through all these ordeals because he's somehow deluded himself into thinking he's going to walk into Meereen and marry Dany. Then at the end of the season Doran reveals his schemes to Arianne at the same time he introduces himself to Dany as Prince Quentyn and it all comes together. That's probably way too complicated and contrived to pull off though.
 
C

CitizenVectron

Member
Iksenpets said:
ADWD
I just really liked the ending of Dorne in AFFC as a twist. That moment when you realize what's going on when Doran tells her that her intended husband died from a pot of molten gold over the head was great. And maybe I'm alone in this, but I sympathized with Arianne's indignation over how their family's been treated and how they seem to just be rolling over and taking it, so realizing that there was a long term plan was cool.

The way I have been playing with in my head of doing it would be having Quentyn introduced in season 5 in Essos at the same time we're seeing Dorne, but he and his friends are working under pseudonyms to avoid attention, so as far as the viewer is concerned he's just some awkward kid who's going through all these ordeals because he's somehow deluded himself into thinking he's going to walk into Meereen and marry Dany. Then at the end of the season Doran reveals his schemes to Arianne at the same time he introduces himself to Dany as Prince Quentyn and it all comes together. That's probably way too complicated and contrived to pull off though.
Click to expand...

It would also be confusing because All Books:
Aegon is also someone who is pretending to be someone else and isn't revealed until later. So viewers might be confused about two people who are hiding their identity, and it would take away from the Aegon reveal, I think.
 
C

cubicle47b

Member
Iksenpets said:
ADWD
I just really liked the ending of Dorne in AFFC as a twist. That moment when you realize what's going on when Doran tells her that her intended husband died from a pot of molten gold over the head was great. And maybe I'm alone in this, but I sympathized with Arianne's indignation over how their family's been treated and how they seem to just be rolling over and taking it, so realizing that there was a long term plan was cool.

The way I have been playing with in my head of doing it would be having Quentyn introduced in season 5 in Essos at the same time we're seeing Dorne, but he and his friends are working under pseudonyms to avoid attention, so as far as the viewer is concerned he's just some awkward kid who's going through all these ordeals because he's somehow deluded himself into thinking he's going to walk into Meereen and marry Dany. Then at the end of the season Doran reveals his schemes to Arianne at the same time he introduces himself to Dany as Prince Quentyn and it all comes together. That's probably way too complicated and contrived to pull off though.
Click to expand...

The Arianne specific twist can be revealed at the end. Quentyn has no redeaming qualities besides being the prince of Dorne, though, and Doran is annoyingly passive without knowing his plans.
 
I

Iksenpets

Banned
RileyLewis said:
It would also be confusing because All Books:
Aegon is also someone who is pretending to be someone else and isn't revealed until later. So viewers might be confused about two people who are hiding their identity, and it would take away from the Aegon reveal, I think.
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ADWD
Yeah, Aegon is complicated enough, even reading. No one needs to have to piece together any mysteries while they're still processing that. The Aegon reveal is my least favorite twist to the series thus far. I would almost kind of prefer it if Illyrio just straight up tells Tyrion "Oh yeah this is baby Aegon. We're gonna go marry him to Dany" and get the whole thing over with. Just set up the Aegon/Quentyn/Victarion race to woo her right from the start.
 
B

Brashnir

Member
oh man, over in the no-spoiler thread, a couple gems from the same guy.

Just remembered that next ep Arya is likely to be returned to Catelyn and Robb!
Click to expand...

and then

Argh... it just hit me that the Tyrells are the good guys..

I feel so slow. Should have come to the conclusion as soon as Varys went to Lady Grandma.

They want peace in the realm..

Which is why Margaery is manipulating Joffrey so he can be a good king to his people and not an insufferable prick.
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ASOS
I was wondering if show watchers were getting the first one. The books realy drove home how close they were to reunion leading up to the RW. Glad to see that TV people are noticing. And the second one is just delicious. Those darling, peaceful Tyrells.
 
C

CitizenVectron

Member
Iksenpets said:
ADWD
Yeah, Aegon is complicated enough, even reading. No one needs to have to piece together any mysteries while they're still processing that. The Aegon reveal is my least favorite twist to the series thus far. I would almost kind of prefer it if Illyrio just straight up tells Tyrion "Oh yeah this is baby Aegon. We're gonna go marry him to Dany" and get the whole thing over with. Just set up the Aegon/Quentyn/Victarion race to woo her right from the start.
Click to expand...


All books:
I really hope they show all 3 of them going to her around the same time unlike the books which spread them out. I know Martin wanted to have them all be there at the same time but then realized he messed up the travel times and so made it really broken and boring. The TV show is the chance to fix that. They can have an entire season of people wooing her and her having to make the choice who to marry.
 
M

Minus_Me

Member
Reading this thread is like reading a redacted document about the location of terrorists. Its pretty amusing when co-workers looks at my screen sometimes.
 
A

Altazor

Member
Brashnir said:
oh man, over in the no-spoiler thread, a couple gems from the same guy.


ASOS
I was wondering if show watchers were getting the first one. The books realy drove home how close they were to reunion leading up to the RW. Glad to see that TV people are noticing. And the second one is just delicious. Those darling, peaceful Tyrells.
Click to expand...

they're the good guys! they want PEACE, dammit. It's all they want.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Kenak said:
I don't even know why we need a tv thread for the book readers.
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I'm still finishing up the books, and think that those of us currently reading the books make up such a small percentage of gaffers, and that everything in this thread should be open season on discussion without the bars.
 
E

Eidan

Member
Kenak said:
I don't even know why we need a tv thread for the book readers.
Click to expand...

Besides fear of accidental spoilers, the things book readers discuss are different than the things non-book readers discuss. The idea is to give non-readers a space where they can discuss, speculate, and enjoy the show without interference from readers.
 
D

Dysun

Member
tumblr_mm6b8lH5Jg1r9h4heo1_1280.jpg
 
M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Thanks. Though this will work in all threads, huh? I wish it just put a button I could click for a specific page. On some other threads I'll want the spoiler tags, hah. Guess I'll have to be careful.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
ASOS:
I think some show viewers are going to say the show is predictable after Robb's death, even if they never saw the Red Wedding coming, because of Ned dying first and then Robb.
 
R

Reyne

Member
Trojita said:
ASOS:
I think some show viewers are going to say the show is predictable after Robb's death, even if they never saw the Red Wedding coming, because of Ned dying first and then Robb.
Click to expand...

So, uh, what of it? If you want to call people out on hypocrisy, at least wait until after the fact. Certainly, some will say it were predictable, by sheer virtue of the show being the way it is, and not because they specifically predicted the Red Wedding.
Besides, I don't think it is for book readers to judge the TV viewers on their reaction towards events and what not. That seem a little off to me, which is why I'll probably never post in the no book spoiler thread, for any reason. Let them form their own opinion, based on the show, and if they are not getting their facts 'straights', then who are we to correct them? They have the show to go by, and whatever supplementary material HBO has offered.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Reyne said:
So, uh, what of it? If you want to call people out on hypocrisy, at least wait until after the fact. Certainly, some will say it were predictable, by sheer virtue of the show being the way it is, and not because they specifically predicted the Red Wedding.
Besides, I don't think it is for book readers to judge the TV viewers on their reaction towards events and what not. That seem a little off to me, which is why I'll probably never post in the no book spoiler thread, for any reason. Let them form their own opinion, based on the show, and if they are not getting their facts 'straights', then who are we to correct them? They have the show to go by, and whatever supplementary material HBO has offered.
Click to expand...

Wow dude. Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed?
 
R

Reyne

Member
Trojita said:
Wow dude. Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed?
Click to expand...

If you want to get technical about it, yes, since I always get up on the left side of the bed. As for whether I am feeling irritated, not really. Don't see where you mean to take this with an ad-hominem though.

As for the discussion at hands:
Yeah, people will say things are getting predictable after the RW. But then, book readers did much the same when it happened. The "Just assume your favorite character is gonna die, and you can't go wrong" sort of thinking was quite common in the book circles as well after the RW. Of course, those who have read Feast and Dance knows it isn't quite as simple as that. The RW was a necessary set-up for the storylines that comes after. The TV-viewers will find that out on their own terms, I am thinking.
 
J

Jobiensis

Member
ASOS:
I think people will know something is going to happen, but I seriously doubt anyone would expect to lose two main characters. The show's limited time will make any foreshadowing a lot more obvious than the books. I agree there is going to be 'this show is predictable', they kill the main characters!

Reyne said:
If you want to get technical about it, yes, since I always get up on the left side of the bed. As for whether I am feeling irritated, not really. Don't see where you mean to take this with an ad-hominem though.
Click to expand...

You made a snarky rant to a simple comment that I bet will play out to be true. Relax.
 
I

Ikael

Member
harriet the spy said:
I wonder how they are going to stretch out Dany's ark. ASOS
She has only two cities to free and a whole season and a half to do that.
Click to expand...



Well, think that it is pretty obvious that they are going to finish this season with [ASOS spoilers]
the liberation of Meeren and Daenerys further coronation, since the last episode's name is "Mysha".

Which points out that they are actually speeding up the Daenerys storyline, so the events of her storyline at ADWD will move paralel to the Westeros storiline belonging to the the second half of ASOS and that it will (predictably) be ahead of the books by the 5th season.

Let's say that things will be... interesting, to say the least. Further changes and editing to the AFFC / ADWD storilines are some of the things that I am looking forward the most, specially a better way to get out of the Meerense knot.
 
A

adamsappel

Member
EktorPR said:
Fantastic article that delves into Game of Thrones' cinematography. Of note: some mild ASOS/Season 3 spoilers within. [/URL]
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Good stuff. Spoilery, I guess, if you haven't read the books and don't want a clue that something big is about to happen when you watch.

In another scene that can’t be described in detail due to the tight secrecy HBO maintains, McLachlan came up with a simple yet brilliant lighting strategy to foreshadow a dramatic turn of events. The scene begins with a relatively high-key interior, with twice as many candelabras and torches as was customary. McLachlan says the extra light coaxes the audience subconsciously to let their guard down. At a natural turning point, the cast picks up most of the light sources and walks out, dropping the light level significantly, just in time for the darker, dramatic story point.
Click to expand...

Sounds like
Red Wedding.

I wish I could be a fly on the wall when the actors who don't read the books first get the scripts where their character dies. I imagine they thought they had a long-time gig. How hard is it to read the books your tv show is based on?
 
P

Pai Pai Master

Banned
Jobiensis said:
ASOS:
I think people will know something is going to happen, but I seriously doubt anyone would expect to lose two main characters. The show's limited time will make any foreshadowing a lot more obvious than the books. I agree there is going to be 'this show is predictable', they kill the main characters!
Click to expand...

MAJOR ASOS/S3 SPOILERS
Agreed. In the book it's easy to see that Robb is doomed one way or another. He's going to lose the war and that typically means the commander of the losing forces is going to be captured or killed.

You just don't expect it to happen the way it does. Unless the next few episodes go too far with foreshadowing, then I think most non-book viewers are going to expect to see an awkward wedding and for Robb to get shamed or lose the support of the Freys. Like those of us who read the book first, show watchers don't really know yet just how far off the deep end Walder Frey is. I don't think they're going to expect to see two main characters butchered in cold blood. If they can predict that then the show has failed or they have been subconsciouly spoiled by some jerk posting hints in the thread.
 
D

David Incorporated Esq.

Member
Pai Pai Master said:
MAJOR ASOS/S3 SPOILERS
Agreed. In the book it's easy to see that Robb is doomed one way or another. He's going to lose the war and that typically means the commander of the losing forces is going to be captured or killed.

You just don't expect it to happen the way it does. Unless the next few episodes go too far with foreshadowing, then I think most non-book viewers are going to expect to see an awkward wedding and for Robb to get shamed or lose the support of the Freys. Like those of us who read the book first, show watchers don't really know yet just how far off the deep end Walder Frey is. I don't think they're going to expect to see two main characters butchered in cold blood. If they can predict that then the show has failed or they have been subconsciouly spoiled by some jerk posting hints in the thread.
Click to expand...

I thought that in ASOS
Robb basically says "Forget this, let's go take the North back and go home." So there's an uplift of hope that they'll get home and make it out all right.
 
N

negreenfield

Member
Kenak said:
I don't even know why we need a tv thread for the book readers.
Click to expand...

I really like having separate threads, when I want to compare show to books, I come here, when I want to read about AFFC and ADWD, theories, etc, I go to that thread. I think they work well as they are. I never enter the no spoilers thread.
 
R

Reyne

Member
Jobiensis said:
You made a snarky rant to a simple comment that I bet will play out to be true. Relax.
Click to expand...
Well, I did not intend for it to be snarky. Like I said, if it turns out true, then its only because the same thing was true for the book readers at that point, and not anything particular to TV viewers.

Also, if you hadn't noticed, this is a forum. Snarky rants on simple comments is how this place keeps moving.
Yes, I admit I was snarky there.
 
M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Ikael said:
Well, think that it is pretty obvious that they are going to finish this season with [ASOS spoilers]
the liberation of Meeren and Daenerys further coronation, since the last episode's name is "Mysha".
Click to expand...
[ASoS]
Think that's Yunkai, not Meereen. The liberation of Meereen is near the end of ASoS, so that'll probably happen in S4.

I wonder if the Jorah betrayal reveal will happen this season or not. They've hinted at it the last episode so it might happen this season.

Pai Pai Master said:
MAJOR ASOS/S3 SPOILERS
You just don't expect it to happen the way it does. Unless the next few episodes go too far with foreshadowing, then I think most non-book viewers are going to expect to see an awkward wedding and for Robb to get shamed or lose the support of the Freys. Like those of us who read the book first, show watchers don't really know yet just how far off the deep end Walder Frey is. I don't think they're going to expect to see two main characters butchered in cold blood. If they can predict that then the show has failed or they have been subconsciouly spoiled by some jerk posting hints in the thread.
Click to expand...

Yeah. [ASoS]
I thought the Edmure marriage offer would soothe the insult to Frey somewhat, since he'd be grandfather to the Lord of Riverrun, which he always wanted. Heh.

...Heh.
 
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