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Game of Thrones *Tagged Book Spoilers, Please Read OP* |OT| Season 3 - Sundays on HBO

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M

Munin

Member
Littlefinger's and Varys' actors make everyone else on this show look like amateur hour

Edit: (ASOS and beyond?)
Can anyone give me a rundown of the whole Bolton thing? It's been ages since I read the books and everything surrounding House Bolton I completely forgot. Why is that house suddenly a thing and why is revealing Bolton's bastard of any significance? I don't understand how it all fits into the general proceedings.
 
P

Pai Pai Master

Banned
dubq said:
Not necessarily. Series
Mel does a lot of talking in the books. Not all of it is truth.
ASOS/ADWD
It could also be in reference to people she has already killed in the books, and is slated to kill on the show. Probably Polliver, Dareon, etc.
Click to expand...

ASOS/AFFC
That's how I read that scene. Not sure why people are freaking about spoilers. At this point in the book, Arya had already killed multiple people. She hasn't in the show yet, but they are going to start hinting towards that darker side of her soon. Melisandre was simply commenting that she is seeing her future victims, i.e. the eyes that she will close forever. I don't think it was meant to hint at anything greater that we don't know about Arya by the end of AFFC.
 
T

TCRS

Banned
Pai Pai Master said:
ASOS/AFFC
That's how I read that scene. Not sure why people are freaking about spoilers. At this point in the book, Arya had already killed multiple people. She hasn't in the show yet, but they are going to start hinting towards that darker side of her soon. Melisandre was simply commenting that she is seeing her future victims, i.e. the eyes that she will close forever. I don't think it was meant to hint at anything greater that we don't know about Arya by the end of AFFC.
Click to expand...

Ok, maybe it's because I interpreted green eyes as Cersei or something.
 
S

SomeOrangeGuy

Neo Member
Creamium said:
- Van Houten killed it as Mel in her scenes... Somehow this struck me as her strongest performance so far. Especially when she read Arya's face.
Click to expand...

THIS. I had to watch that scene twice because it was so intense.

RE: Arya, there are certainly a lot of scenes missing, although I don't miss them, you know? [ASOS]
She doesn't have that near miss with Jaime and Brienne at the Inn. Almost none of their story of trying to get to Riverrun is portrayed onscreen -- just jump right to the Brotherhood
. Which is fine by me.
 
E

exYle

Member
Munin said:
Littlefinger's and Varys' actors make everyone else on this show look like amateur hour

Edit: (ASOS and beyond?)
Can anyone give me a rundown of the whole Bolton thing? It's been ages since I read the books and everything surrounding House Bolton I completely forgot. Why is that house suddenly a thing and why is revealing Bolton's bastard of any significance? I don't understand how it all fits into the general proceedings.
Click to expand...

CoK, SoS, DwD
In the North, Theon had an ally freed from Winterfell's prison called Reek. After the northmen closed on Winterfell, Theon sent Reek to gather allies. Reek came back and tricked the northmen into thinking he was an ally, and turned on them. Reek entered the castle, and revealed himself to be Ramsay Bolton, aka The Bastard of Bolton. He captured Theon and put Winterfell to the torch.
Three books later, it is revealed that Ramsay was torturing Theon for the extent of SoS, renaming Theon 'Reek' and making him an indentured servant.
Roose Bolton was a loyal bannerman to Robb. However, as Robb began to lose the war, Bolton dealt secretly with the Lannisters as he held Harrenhal. He was already prepared to betray Robb when Jaime showed up on his doorstep, and thus was willing to let him go. After the events of the Red Wedding, Ramsay helped his father clear the path to the north (which was mostly just ironmen blocking Moat Cailin) and together they took the seat at Winterfell, which was rewarded to them by the Lannisters.
 
T

The Anti-Monitor

Banned
Man, how could you forget those scenes?

ADwD
The scenes with Ramsay are without a doubt some of the most disturbing shit I've ever read. He made his first wife eat her own fingers and made the second one fuck a dog!

I will say, though, Iwan Rheon is fantastic on the role. Such a cunt
 
M

Minus_Me

Member
The Anti-Monitor said:
Man, how could you forget those scenes?

ADwD
The scenes with Ramsay are without a doubt some of the most disturbing shit I've ever read. He made his first wife eat her own fingers and made the second one fuck a dog!
Click to expand...

I only caught that second point on my reread. Totally insane.
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
Creamium said:
Really good episode. Stuff that stood out for me

- Iwan Rheon. Just perfect casting. That scene was the highlight of the episode. [SoS]
I don't care if he doesn't look disgusting, this little freak IS Ramsay.
- Van Houten killed it as Mel in her scenes... Somehow this struck me as her strongest performance so far. Especially when she read Arya's face.
- I don't remember, was that scene about loyalty between Ygritte and Jon in the books? Because that had some terrific lines.
- Loved the final shot of Jon and Ygritte on the top of the wall. I need a 1080p wallpaper of this.
- Jojen selling that dream. Damn convincing seizure.
- All of the Lannisters killing it
- Littlefinger's ladder speech
- 'The Lysa Arryn of chairs'. Hah! Brilliant.



Best casting ever.
Click to expand...

I felt that all of the new/fabricated scenes they added were spectacular and surprisingly relevant. I REALLY liked Ygritte's loyalty speech--[ASOS]
it will make his "betrayal" and her death even more impactful.
 
R

Randdalf

Member
That whole Littlefinger speech flew completely over my head, partly because I was listening and not watching so I missed some of the montage, can somebody summarise what actually happened in it for me?
 
S

scosher

Member
I'm really looking forward to where the show is going to go with
Gendry
.

Major ASOS/Series spoilers
Might be interesting to see if Gendry is taken to the Wall with Stannis/Melisandre. That would be completely divergent from the books, and would suggest that Gendry does not really having any importance in future books, but it's an interesting creative liberty that the show could take. Also the Skins actors can reunite!
 
K

Kuroyume

Banned
The Anti-Monitor said:
Man, how could you forget those scenes?

ADwD
The scenes with Ramsay are without a doubt some of the most disturbing shit I've ever read. He made his first wife eat her own fingers and made the second one fuck a dog!

I will say, though, Iwan Rheon is fantastic on the role. Such a cunt
Click to expand...

Amen.

Without the doubt my favorite parts from ADWD.
The way George writes in great detail of all the violence he acts out and his cruelty... Leaves a strong impression. Without a doubt the true monster of ASOIAF. I'm just fascinated by the entire Theon story now. This is why I feel they need to increase the graphic nature of the torture scene. In the books they were terrifying... On the show all he's had done to him is had a finger gutted a bit.
 
T

The Anti-Monitor

Banned
scosher said:
I'm really looking forward to where the show is going to go with
Gendry
.

Major ASOS/Series spoilers
Might be interesting to see if Gendry is taken to the Wall with Stannis/Melisandre. That would be completely divergent from the books, and would suggest that Gendry does not really having any importance in future books, but it's an interesting creative liberty that the show could take. Also the Skins actors can reunite!
Click to expand...

Nah, I'm expecting ASOS/AFFC
when Melisandre suggests burning Gendry, Davos will smuggle him away. Instead of going to the other side of the sea, though, he'll be taken back to the Inn so that he can meet Brienne.
 
M

Massa

Member
Kuroyume said:
Amen.

Without the doubt my favorite parts from ADWD.
The way George writes in great detail of all the violence he acts out and his cruelty... Leaves a strong impression. Without a doubt the true monster of ASOIAF. I'm just fascinated by the entire Theon story now. This is why I feel they need to increase the graphic nature of the torture scene. In the books they were terrifying... On the show all he's had done to him is had a finger gutted a bit.
Click to expand...

SERIES
I think he'll be castrated this season.

The Anti-Monitor said:
Nah, I'm expecting ASOS/AFFC
when Melisandre suggests burning Gendry, Davos will smuggle him away. Instead of going to the other side of the sea, though, he'll be taken back to the Inn so that he can meet Brienne.
Click to expand...

SERIES
Yeah, Gendry will probably learn that she's looking for the Stark girls and join her.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Kuroyume said:
Amen.

Without the doubt my favorite parts from ADWD.
The way George writes in great detail of all the violence he acts out and his cruelty... Leaves a strong impression. Without a doubt the true monster of ASOIAF. I'm just fascinated by the entire Theon story now. This is why I feel they need to increase the graphic nature of the torture scene. In the books they were terrifying... On the show all he's had done to him is had a finger gutted a bit.
Click to expand...

Reading through ADWD....

As much of a monster Ramsay is, I find it hard to have sympathy for Theon. It's not like Ned, where he was betrayed, or Robb and Cat with Frey's betrayal. Or Mormont being slain by his own brothers. Theon wasn't betrayed, he wasn't lied to, everything that happened to him, awful as it is, is the result of his own choices. While he of course didn't deserve what happened to him, he can't blame anyone for it but himself.
 
B

beril

Member
Was it ever revealed in the books that it was Joffrey who ordered to have Tyrion killed?

ASOS
This episode felt like they were trying to bring Tyrion and Cersei a bit closer together before destroying the the relationship again with Joffreys death
 
E

Eidan

Member
DrForester said:
Reading through ADWD....

As much of a monster Ramsay is, I find it hard to have sympathy for Theon. It's not like Ned, where he was betrayed, or Robb and Cat with Frey's betrayal. Or Mormont being slain by his own brothers. Theon wasn't betrayed, he wasn't lied to, everything that happened to him, awful as it is, is the result of his own choices. While he of course didn't deserve what happened to him, he can't blame anyone for it but himself.
Click to expand...

Series
Ned, Robb, Cat, and Theon all paid the price for mistakes they've made. Though there are external forces at play, all took actions that directly led to their own suffering.
 
T

Timbuktu

Member
As Littlefinger gave that ladder speech, in my head i heard Carcetti and i was half expecting the episode to end on Jesse Winchester's Step by Step from the Wire, with all the lyrics about Jacob's ladder and all that. Weird how different and alike his characters are in the two shows, i can imagine Carcetti saying hat Littlefinger did towards the end of his career.
 
B

beril

Member
scosher said:
I'm really looking forward to where the show is going to go with
Gendry
.

Major ASOS/Series spoilers
Might be interesting to see if Gendry is taken to the Wall with Stannis/Melisandre. That would be completely divergent from the books, and would suggest that Gendry does not really having any importance in future books, but it's an interesting creative liberty that the show could take. Also the Skins actors can reunite!
Click to expand...

Who's the other Skins actor?
 
R

Randdalf

Member
Bringing the obsidian dagger back into the foreground suggests that ASOS
Sam will slay an Other soon, but surely that means the whole "Sam the Slayer" won't work unless they're found by Green et. al.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
TCRS said:
Agree, I love all Lannister scenes, especially the one with Tywin and Olenna. What badass mofos both of them.
Click to expand...

They should just get married, kill Cersei and rule the Kingdom together.

Munin said:
Littlefinger's and Varys' actors make everyone else on this show look like amateur hour
Click to expand...

I'll be honest, I'm not a huge fan of Aidan Gillen, mostly because there is zero subtlety with the role. His scheming is supposed to be pretty well hidden to outsiders. But with this, he's slimy, and everyone knows it from the start. Conleth Hill on the other hand is perfect because Varys' isn't supposed to be that subtle. He is shady, and he knows that everyone knows it. He managed to stay on the small council, with the Lannisters, even after advising King Aegon not to allow Tywin into the city. My problem with Littlefinger on the show is that he behaves just like Varys and that's not how I picture the two.

series
And Littlefinger is a fucking amateur next to Varys.
 
R

Ryck

Member
DrForester said:
Reading through ADWD....

As much of a monster Ramsay is, I find it hard to have sympathy for Theon. It's not like Ned, where he was betrayed, or Robb and Cat with Frey's betrayal. Or Mormont being slain by his own brothers. Theon wasn't betrayed, he wasn't lied to, everything that happened to him, awful as it is, is the result of his own choices. While he of course didn't deserve what happened to him, he can't blame anyone for it but himself.
Click to expand...
I agree, kinda makes me wonder what would have happened had he not burned the letter.

If he had been with Robb at the RW he might have ended up a prisoner again or killed, or sent back to the Iron Islands and most likely killed as well... Theon was kinda fucked no matter what he did.
 
D

dubq

Member
Ryck said:
I agree, kinda makes me wonder what would have happened had he not burned the letter.
Click to expand...

IMO, if I went home and my father treated me like shit for something that was completely his own fault (Balon's failed rebellion), I would've been on the first boat back to the Stark's telling them to fuck up the Iron Islands after they were done with the Lannister's. That's me, though.
 
T

Timbuktu

Member
Altazor said:
though they're not about the same thing at all, it reminded me of the powerful (
yet wrong
) speech Carcetti gave by the end of S3. That big statement.
Click to expand...

Though Carcetti was just listening to this one, i also though the parable of the bowls of shit would have fitted right in with GoT too.

In a way, the actor maybe should have played Littlefinger exactly as he did Carcetti, someone who one might think is good and maybe used to be but is at the end all about his own progress on that 'ladder'. Carcetti was good enough at lying to convinve himself. Littlefinger, as written, is a bit more one dimensional, but the actor could have brought more to it, we have seen him do it before.

I always liked Varys too, but i thought that scene between Olenna and Tywin placed them a cut above.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
l2Vngmp.jpg


Content Roundup: The Climb

Reviews and Recaps:
AV Club (for experts)
AV Club (for newbies)
Sepinwall (Hitflix) Review
IGN Review
Huffington Post Recap
WiC.net Recap (book spoilers)
Grantland Recap
TIME Review
Rolling Stone Recap
EW Recap

HBO Content:
Inside the Episode
"The Bear and the Maiden Fair" Preview (Please Spoiler Tag any Preview Discussion)

Post can also be found in the OP.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Yeah, if Theon wasn't a traitorous asshole, he would have ridden back to Robb immediately after getting back to the mainland. He's been trained for years on horses, and could easily out ride the sailors on his ship.
 
R

Ryck

Member
DrForester said:
Yeah, if Theon wasn't a traitorous asshole, he would have ridden back to Robb immediately after getting back to the mainland. He's been trained for years on horses, and could easily out ride the sailors on his ship.
Click to expand...
I know that what Im saying is...

His fate was not great either way... Red Wedding and what not.
 
F

Forsaken82

Member
Kuroyume said:
Amen.

Without the doubt my favorite parts from ADWD.
The way George writes in great detail of all the violence he acts out and his cruelty... Leaves a strong impression. Without a doubt the true monster of ASOIAF. I'm just fascinated by the entire Theon story now. This is why I feel they need to increase the graphic nature of the torture scene. In the books they were terrifying... On the show all he's had done to him is had a finger gutted a bit.
Click to expand...

But thats how it started for him.
It Progressively gets worse for theon. A flap of skin here, a finger there, more skin. A mental test. The mind games Ramsay plays on Theon go beyond the physical torture.
I think they are playing it perfectly so far.
 
N

Neki

Member
dubq said:
I think some of you are giving regular viewers too much credit, re: who is torturing Theon. I've read comments from a lot of people who have no idea what is going on. Then again these are also the same people who think Daenerys' name is actually Khaleesi.
Click to expand...

My girlfriend who watches the show with me has no idea, and I wouldn't have known either but reading the no book spoilers thread people keep pointing out all the subtle stuff so now I have an idea, so yeah, it's pretty hard to tell otherwise.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
dubq said:
I think some of you are giving regular viewers too much credit, re: who is torturing Theon. I've read comments from a lot of people who have no idea what is going on. Then again these are also the same people who think Daenerys' name is actually Khaleesi.
Click to expand...

Possibly, even if his identity itself is unkown, the evidence of where he is, an who he works for is out there for anyone who catches details with the rack Theon is on.

And hasn't the show offhandely dropped that Bolton has a son?
 
D

dubq

Member
DrForester said:
Possibly, even if his identity itself is unkown, the evidence of where he is, an who he works for is out there for anyone who catches details with the rack Theon is on.

And hasn't the show offhandely dropped that Bolton has a son?
Click to expand...

Yes but you would be surprised at the amount of people who do not pay attention. I had to explain three times to someone at work the time when Bolton offered his bastard to Robb to go and liberate Winterfell.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
The problem with the show's conversations/exposition is exactly why they do all of those "previously on..." things. I know they do those on a lot of shows, but it has never been more necessary when talking about this show.

Like when Ned Stark was talking about Jorah Mormont, or when Littlefinger refers to Lysa.

These characters are hundreds or thousands of miles away, and the viewer doesn't immediately say "Oh! Now the plot thickens."

They confuse it with the background lore the characters like to reference, such as dead kings and knights.
 
T

The Anti-Monitor

Banned
I will say, though, people tend to find this show more enjoyable on rewatching.

I recently restarted with a friend and when Jaime was talking to Jory about Thoros and his flaming sword she was all "ooooooooh that's the guy who revived the eyepatch guy"

I think Roose Bolton will definitely have the same effect when people rewatch Season 2.
 
A

Altazor

Member
Timbuktu said:
In a way, the actor maybe should have played Littlefinger exactly as he did Carcetti, someone who one might think is good and maybe used to be but is at the end all about his own progress on that 'ladder'. Carcetti was good enough at lying to convinve himself. Littlefinger, as written, is a bit more one dimensional, but the actor could have brought more to it, we have seen him do it before.
Click to expand...

oh man, I agree with you.

In any case, I think Carcetti started out as that institutional outsider (so to speak) that wanted to do "the right thing" yet [The Wire Seasons 3, 4 and 5 spoilers]
by the end of the series he's just a miserable, self-serving and corrupt cunt, just like Royce was. So maybe it depends on what you think of Carcetti himself: maybe you think he actually never tried to "do the right thing" and he always was about his own progress and success (remember that time when he cheated on his wife and he was turned on by his reflection on a mirror? lol) but in any case, he ended up "swallowed" by the machine nonetheless, another typical politician of a different skin color
. Littlefinger, I think (ASOIAF All Books spoilers and also The Wire spoilers)
manages to succeed where Carcetti failed: LF didn't end up (well, so far) "another cog in the political machinery" so to speak, a prisoner to bureaucracy and the limitations inherent to his position; LF used every single tool at his disposal to play the long (longest?) con and position himself as a chessmaster. He isn't constrained by politics and rules, he uses them as best as possible to further his own ends.

but yeah, I think they could've been more subtle about it, and it's probably the writer's fault, because, as you said, we know the actor can do that and play that part convincingly.

(I'm sorry for that pseudo-hijack. I know it's not a thread about The Wire but there's some sort of connection between these two characters played by the same actor)
 
Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Ryck said:
I know that what Im saying is...

His fate was not great either way... Red Wedding and what not.
Click to expand...

Given the butterfly effect and whatnot...

(ASOS)
Who's to say events would have played out in that same fashion? If Robb didn't have the burning of Winterfell around his neck, it would not have put him in such a bad spot to have to go crawling back to Frey. Maybe.
 
F

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
So good to get another Varys and LF scene before he's off KL, the dialogue was a tad corny but seeing the actors going at it was entertaining as usual. Love what the show is doing with the characters of Tywin and Oleena too, great stuff.

Creamium said:
- Iwan Rheon. Just perfect casting. That scene was the highlight of the episode. [SoS]
I don't care if he doesn't look disgusting, this little freak IS Ramsay.
Click to expand...
Yep, he's torturing killing it.
 
S

Solo

Member
Loved the episode with the exception of the final scene. Who approved that cliched, corny ass final shot? My god.

Still though, best season by far.
 
B

Brashnir

Member
Solo said:
Loved the episode with the exception of the final scene. Who approved that cliched, corny ass final shot? My god.

Still though, best season by far.
Click to expand...

I didn't love the shot either, but I think they went that way to show the contrast between all the people unhappy with their new arranged marriages and these two falling for a person they chose for themselves.

I think choosing a shot like that, which is rather out of character for the show matches their relationship, which is very out of character for the world.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Loofy said:
Littlefingers voice has been so awesome this season, he talks slower and more raspy.

Season 1
http://youtu.be/P-29lP4aTKw
Season 3
http://youtu.be/TRlgz_u1IaI?t=1m5s
Click to expand...

So different lol

I'm not really sure why, Gillen is a veteran and skilled actor, yet he keeps changing the voice of his character, although to his credit I've felt that his accent has been pretty consistent this season, in season 2 the accent would change quite significantly at times.
 
R

Ryck

Member
Rentahamster said:
Given the butterfly effect and whatnot...

(ASOS)
Who's to say events would have played out in that same fashion? If Robb didn't have the burning of Winterfell around his neck, it would not have put him in such a bad spot to have to go crawling back to Frey. Maybe.
Click to expand...

(ASOS)
Hmmm yeah who's to say, maybe Bolton does not betray Robb either. Wasn't the fact that he lost Winterfell one of the reasons Bolton saw a chance to usurp him in the north?
 
B

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
I just have to say, the small amount of skinning that went on was quite possibly the most uncomfortable I've ever felt watching something on TV. The reaction itself sold me on it. Damn.
 
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