Support NeoGAF

[Eidan]

AFFC

Spoiler

Is there any villainy showmanship in that monologue though? It's worth remembering that the situation is different: he attempts to teach Sansa "the game" throughout the book, to make her a formidable chess piece; a smarter Cersei, if you will. In it he's explaining everything in simple terms Sansa can understand, like an entry test. Whereas his scenes with Varys are just him shooting the shit while tipping his hand to an opponent (the "foreign dignitary" scene in S1, last night's "when I told the Lannisters about the Tyrell plot..." scene, etc).

To me the only mustache twirling moment comes in the epilogue of ADWD, but at least the character involved is tipping his hand in a safe environment, with no fear of anyone exposing his plan

AFFC

Spoiler

I guess it depends on your definition of "villainy". But so far, I've felt that Littlefinger and Sansa's time in the Eyrie can largely be described as Petyr showing off his manipulative abilities. You can dismiss it as him attempting to teach Sansa if you want, but he definitely exudes a Snidely Whiplash air. Especially when he's constantly asking Sansa to give him some sugar when people aren't looking. The guy is a mustache twirler through and through.

True, but that is different from stating your master plan to the bloody spy master of the realm.

I hardly call that a plan so much as his world view.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

I actually prefer show littlefinger
I didnt like him much in the books though
and the scenes with the BWB were also not in the books, and pretty good in my opinion.

My only qualm with how they're showing the brotherhood is how they're seemingly all about R'hllor first and foremost. Compared to the books [Mild ASoS spoilers]

Spoiler

where the Brotherhood seems more concerned with the plight of the commoners and they just happen to believe in R'hllor. But I guess that is something the show has skimped on- showing off the effects of the war on the common people. That's one part of Arya's storyline they've dropped the ball on from way back in season 2 up to now.

Also, the subtitles in the show spelled "R'hollor" didn't they? Isn't it spelled "R'hllor"? Nitpicking of course but I was wondering if that was intentional or an oversight.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Varys hates chaos, (ADWD)

Spoiler

kills Kevan to make chaos. Kevan is actually competent so he has to be killed.

More ADWD

Spoiler

Yeah this still bothers me; I really don't get Varys' long game. He's after the stability of the realm, but when someone starts bringing stability he offs them. Is he after stability under the Targs? Why? It doesn't seem that he knows much about how good a ruler Danaerys would be, or is he part of the plot to crown Aegon? Fuck if I know

 

[Meier]

I hope that they don't show much more of Theon being tortured. It's too much to see it acted out.. that scene with the finger made me yell out in real life. Gives me the willies even thinking about it again.

Minor ADWD spoilers

Spoiler

I really have no clue how they're going to portray him in the future with all of the missing parts.. they went easy on Tyrion because of how unsettling no nose would be. Theon in the future is just too much.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

I hope that they don't show much more of Theon being tortured. It's too much to see it acted out.. that scene with the finger made me yell out in real life. Gives me the willies even thinking about it again.

Minor ADWD spoilers

Spoiler

I really have no clue how they're going to portray him in the future with all of the missing parts.. they went easy on Tyrion because of how unsettling no nose would be. Theon in the future is just too much.

Spoiler

He can wear gloves with finger braces so the gloves' fingers don't bend. I'm pretty sure Roose makes him wear gloves, now that I think about it.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Also, I know some people have complained that show Littlefinger is too much of a "mustache twirling villain".

AFFC

Spoiler

How can anyone read Baelish's long explanation on Harry the Heir without thinking of Snidely Whiplash?

If you happened to be in his way then I guess you might see him as a villain. But to me he seems like someone who is highly manipulative and ambitious, with no allegiance other than the side that serves his interests.

 

[PhoenixDark]

One thing I do like about Littlefinger's schemes this season: (ASOS)

Spoiler

he hides his Sansa interest quite carefully before his chat with Varys. The two feather beds were clearly planted information meant to expose Ros, and she fell for it. Now he's gone from the city, seemingly no longer interested in Sansa. So when she gets taken from the city later, and arrives in the Eyrie it'll be even more of a twist. I would have been more impressed last night if he insinuated Sansa was nothing more than cheese to him, to weed out the mouse in his service

 

[ivysaur12]

The Theon scenes are increasingly disturbing. I also like that he's basically been in one place for an entire season. I wonder how much he actually worked?

Sword swallower. Perfect. Grandma Tyrell is a champ.

If you happened to be in his way then I guess you might see him as a villain. But to me he seems like someone who is highly manipulative and ambitious, with no allegiance other than the side that serves his interests.

That's exactly how to read him. He's not a villain, his moral code is his own ambition. Compare that to Varys, who has a more macro-level worldview on his schemes. That last scene between the two of them contrasted their differences extremely well.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Tywin is busy with the war and probably felt Cersei was the best person to handle Joffrey.

But for years Cersei has been completely unaware of her sons development into a depraved little shit.

Robert isn't exactly blameless here. He's a bad husband, a lousy father, and a snappy dresser.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

I hope that they don't show much more of Theon being tortured. It's too much to see it acted out.. that scene with the finger made me yell out in real life. Gives me the willies even thinking about it again.

Minor ADWD spoilers

Spoiler

I really have no clue how they're going to portray him in the future with all of the missing parts.. they went easy on Tyrion because of how unsettling no nose would be. Theon in the future is just too much.

[ADwD spoilers]

Spoiler

Well, what is the damage to Reek/Theon that they'd have to illustrate via makeup and such? He's missing some fingers, toes, his genitals and some teeth, right? He looks like he's aged a ton and his hair has gone white and is all brittle. None of that seems like it would have to be too crazy in terms of makeup or prosthetics. Not like Tyrion having his nose missing would have been. You can likely sell Reek/Theon through acting.

I kind of think thats why its important to see some of this torture now, in case they go light on Reek's visual appearance next season or whenever. This way we know just why Theon's personality is so radically different since we know first hand what a psychopath Ramsay is and what Theon has been dealing with. Even if we don't see all the physical manifestations of Ramsay's brutality on Theo due to makeup or special effects restrictions , Reek will make sense given what we've seen.

One thing I do like about Littlefinger's schemes this season: (ASOS)

Spoiler

he hides his Sansa interest quite carefully before his chat with Varys. The two feather beds were clearly planted information meant to expose Ros, and she fell for it. Now he's gone from the city, seemingly no longer interested in Sansa. So when she gets taken from the city later, and arrives in the Eyrie it'll be even more of a twist. I would have been more impressed last night if he insinuated Sansa was nothing more than cheese to him, to weed out the mouse in his service

Yes, [ASoS]

Spoiler

that was pretty good. Especially if they bring Dontos back in somehow now that could make Littlefinger's eventual reappearance more surprising. And I guess if they don't have Sansa get away until next season after the PW, they could give Dontos some time this year to actually develop him even a tiny bit.

 

[Fuzzy]

One thing I didn't like about the Tywin scene is that it essentially closed a door that they left open in the episode before. Tywin saying Loras joining the KG would mean the end of the Tyrell rule of Highgarden means he has no brothers at all.

 

[FStop7]

Did a spit take when Olenna referred to Loras as being a "sword swallower"

 

[woodchuck]

loved the scene between Tyrion asking Cersei if it was her or Joffrey that tried to kill him.

ASOS

Spoiler

Also forshadowing when Tyrion says it would have been easier just to poison him? Wonder if Cersei will remember that and give her further evidence to accuse Tyrion of trying poison Joffrey

 

[Speevy]

One thing I didn't like about the Tywin scene is that it essentially closed a door that they left open in the episode before. Tywin saying Loras joining the KG would mean the end of the Tyrell rule of Highgarden means he has no brothers at all.

He said "Your name will fade."

 

[bodyofanamerican]

[ADwD spoilers]

Spoiler

Well, what is the damage to Reek/Theon that they'd have to illustrate via makeup and such? He's missing some fingers, toes, his genitals and some teeth, right? He looks like he's aged a ton and his hair has gone white and is all brittle. None of that seems like it would have to be too crazy in terms of makeup or prosthetics. Not like Tyrion having his nose missing would have been. You can likely sell Reek/Theon through acting.

I kind of think thats why its important to see some of this torture now, in case they go light on Reek's visual appearance next season or whenever. This way we know just why Theon's personality is so radically different since we know first hand what a psychopath Ramsay is and what Theon has been dealing with. Even if we don't see all the physical manifestations of Ramsay's brutality on Theo due to makeup or special effects restrictions , Reek will make sense given what we've seen.

Yes, [ASoS]

Spoiler

that was pretty good. Especially if they bring Dontos back in somehow now that could make Littlefinger's eventual reappearance more surprising. And I guess if they don't have Sansa get away until next season after the PW, they could give Dontos some time this year to actually develop him even a tiny bit.

Regarding your ADWD spoiler, a recent picture of the actor involved with it is HERE (Link) and lets just say their appearance looks modified from what we are used to. So a different look at some point this season is possible.

 

[Crisco]

I didn't enjoy this episode. Not at all.

 

[Dany]

loved the scene between Tyrion asking Cersei if it was her or Joffrey that tried to kill him.

ASOS

Spoiler

Also forshadowing when Tyrion says it would have been easier just to poison him? Wonder if Cersei will remember that and give her further evidence to accuse Tyrion of trying poison Joffrey

As I've said earlier, a lot of foreshadowing in this episode, really enjoyed it.

 

[Gvaz]

Tell me how you really feel.

Learn how to troll.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Was that chaos speech in the books?
Because it's the best Littlefinger scene so far in the TV-show.

Also, the God of light is incredibly overpowered in the TV-show, is it the same in the books?

 

[The Anti-Monitor]

Was that chaos speech in the books?
Because it's the best Littlefinger scene so far in the TV-show.

Also, the God of light is incredibly overpowered in the TV-show, is it the same in the books?

It was not. Littlefinger is one of those characters who is much more memorable in the show.

And yes, R'hllor team stays winning.

 

[Dany]

Huh...this showed up on my feed.

 

[FStop7]

Whenever Ser Mandon Moore is mentioned I think of Mandy Moore and crack up at the idea of her fucking shit up with a huge sword.

 

[FStop7]

Once again book readers doing that "OH NOW WE'RE SETTING UP FOR BIG EVENTS" taunting bullshit in the non-book thread.

Is it like some kind of compulsion? Stop.

 

[Magnus]

Couple moments that really gave me chills this week. Petyr's speech coupled with the surprise end of Ros. And that gorgeous, GORGEOUS shot over the Wall that ended the ep. Spectacular work. And damn if the wall climb didn't look fucking great for television!

Why aren't people babbling more about how impressive that all was!

 

[Speevy]

Couple moments that really gave me chills this week. Petyr's speech coupled with the surprise end of Ros. And that gorgeous, GORGEOUS shot over the Wall that ended the ep. Spectacular work. And damn if the wall climb didn't look fucking great for television!

Why aren't people babbling more about how impressive that all was!

I think no swordfights or dragon barbecues equals a mediocre episode for some people.

 

[duckroll]

Once again book readers doing that "OH NOW WE'RE SETTING UP FOR BIG EVENTS" taunting bullshit in the non-book thread.

Is it like some kind of compulsion? Stop.

Yeah that sort of stuff is shitty. If it gets worse drop me a PM.

Learn how to troll.

I can't level up any further. Already maxed out.

 

[Vyer]

Series

Spoiler

They can't just keep going back and being like "I'm going to skin your other finger now! Weeeeee." They are just spooling out the reveal of his identity to give those scenes some element of plot as barebones as it is. The whole thing is silly since it isn't some big mystery and a lot of people will probably be like... you're who? It isn't like him torturing Theon reveals the Bolton treachery. At least with the random sex scenes we got some exposition. This is just torture porn to make us really really sure that Ramsey is a messed up dude. Which we already know pretty concretely.

Spoiler

theyve only done it once, so I'll reserve judgement on that until I actually see how it plays out. And no, a television wouldnt know that 'pretty concretely' until that point imo. As it stands, I agree about the 'mystery' part, but not about the torture.

 

[Speevy]

Does anyone have a gif of that part when Olenna says "Olllld." and Tyrion responds "Old?", to which she says "Old."

That cracked me up.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Robert isn't exactly blameless here. He's a bad husband, a lousy father, and a snappy dresser.

He tried to be a good father at one point but Cersei basically told him to fuck off or she'd kill him. I think at one point Robert beat Joffrey because Joffrey killed a pregnant cat to see what the kittens were like and Cersei threatened to kill him if he hit Joffrey again.

Basically Joffrey is a sociopath and there was never any hope for him.

 

[Massa]

^ You should use spoiler tags as that story hasn't been featured on the show yet.

Loved Arya in this episode (as usual). The way she confronted Melisandre and called her a witch was fantastic.

 

[Speevy]

Loved Arya in this episode (as usual). The way she confronted Melisandre and called her a witch was fantastic.

Maisie Williams has turned in a great performance so far this season. The actress who plays Melisandre could be better though.

 

[FStop7]

The Theon stuff has dragged a bit. I think when the reveal happens the impact might be lost on those who haven't read the books because they're already juggling too many other things to remember specifics from so far back.

 

[Eidan]

Couple moments that really gave me chills this week. Petyr's speech coupled with the surprise end of Ros. And that gorgeous, GORGEOUS shot over the Wall that ended the ep. Spectacular work. And damn if the wall climb didn't look fucking great for television!

Why aren't people babbling more about how impressive that all was!

Actually the only things I've heard were "lol bad CG".

I actually thought the entire wall climbing sequence was impressive. It also sounded great coming from my speakers.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

^ You should use spoiler tags as that story hasn't been featured on the show yet.

Loved Arya in this episode (as usual). The way she confronted Melisandre and called her a witch was fantastic.

Good point we wouldn't want anyone thinking that Joffrey was messed up or anything.

 

[Speevy]

I wouldn't expect them to find a raging blizzard, but aren't there locations like that where they're filming? (Jon Snow's story)

 

[Cornballer]

A bunch of screenshots from the other thread:

Pr0n!

Nice pics, I might as well contribute a few.

 

[The Anti-Monitor]

The Theon stuff has dragged a bit. I think when the reveal happens the impact might be lost on those who haven't read the books because they're already juggling too many other things to remember specifics from so far back.

I don't think the reveal is that important. It's just so that people really get to know the character. It gives those scenes something to do besides being increasingly and pointlessly cruel. And it's just started to get physical.

Besides,

Spoiler

come on. It's obvious already. From one season to the other we have House Bolton everywhere. Roose suddenly gets screentime, Locke chops off Jaime's hand, we see the damn flayed man everywhere, and now that we have someone on a cross, being flayed AND we know they're on the North... and people still don't figure it out? The non-readers I watch it with have already pointed out how House Bolton suddenly seems to be everywhere and had no problems to understand who was doing the torture.

 

[TheExodu5]

The Theon stuff has dragged a bit. I think when the reveal happens the impact might be lost on those who haven't read the books because they're already juggling too many other things to remember specifics from so far back.

I'm only in the third book, but from what I know, I'm guessing that it's

Spoiler

the bastard of Bolton?

. The second book is so far away I can't remember it too well.

If that's the case I don't think any non book readers will even care. No one even knows who

Spoiler

Roose Bolton

is.

One thing that's kind of funny is that most non book readers I've talked to can remember any names. If I talk about Tyrion or Daenerys, even then they say "who?". I don't know if that's the fault of the viewers or the show.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Couple moments that really gave me chills this week. Petyr's speech coupled with the surprise end of Ros. And that gorgeous, GORGEOUS shot over the Wall that ended the ep. Spectacular work. And damn if the wall climb didn't look fucking great for television!

Why aren't people babbling more about how impressive that all was!

Petyr's speech was perfect, much more impact with the scenes they used. I love the Petry and Varys casting they have done.

I also liked the wall scenes. Question though...

ASOS

Spoiler

Did only 4 people make the climb? That's all who we saw at the end?

 

[dubq]

Regarding your ADWD spoiler, a recent picture of the actor involved with it is HERE (Link) and lets just say their appearance looks modified from what we are used to. So a different look at some point this season is possible.

..or he could've just bleached his hair. Bleach blonde =/= white.

 

[exYle]

I don't think the reveal is that important. It's just so that people really get to know the character. It gives those scenes something to do besides being increasingly and pointlessly cruel. And it's just started to get physical.

Besides,

Spoiler

come on. It's obvious already. From one season to the other we have House Bolton everywhere. Roose suddenly gets screentime, Locke chops off Jaime's hand, we see the damn flayed man everywhere, and now that we have someone on a cross, being flayed AND we know they're on the North... and people still don't figure it out? The non-readers I watch it with have already pointed out how House Bolton suddenly seems to be everywhere and had no problems to understand who was doing the torture.

The clues have been pretty subtle. My non-reader friends haven't figured it out.

 

[TheExodu5]

The clues have been pretty subtle. My non-reader friends haven't figured it out.

Have they talked about the house's sigil at all in the show?

 

[The Anti-Monitor]

The clues have been pretty subtle. My non-reader friends haven't figured it out.

Spoiler

In the North, and flaying? It really is pretty obvious, but you need to have watched Season 2 a few times to listen to Bolton's two single lines "Yo I really like flaying, don'tyou?" and "Dun worry, my Bastard will take care "

Regardless, the point is that the "reveal" isn't really a big deal, because we're talking of people who haven't done big stuff yet. The only reason they don't say it straight away is so that they can have some dialogue that justifies having those scenes. We wouldn't be getting so many scenes of them if they were all

"Lol dude you stink so bad, don't you agree? No? Welp, there goes a pinky"

Have they talked about the house's sigil at all in the show?

Yep. Mentioned a couple of times, and shown a lot.

 

[Speevy]

Theon is being psychologically transformed into DAVID BOWIE

 

[subrock]

"Never hold" (teaching Arya archery)

*Melisandre approaches

*holds bow string taut

 

[FStop7]

Have they talked about the house's sigil at all in the show?

It's obvious to us but imagine if you haven't read the books - there is so much stuff being thrown at you. Family names, house names, nicknames, etc. I asked a friend if he was aware that Jaime and Brienne were now in the same castle that Arya and Gendry had just escaped from and he said no - one castle looks like all the others. It's information overload.

I had the same problem with Band of Brothers the first time I watched it. I had a hard time caring about the characters because I couldn't tell any of them apart. In their uniforms and helmets with their dirty faces they all looked the same.

 

[kirblar]

The clues have been pretty subtle. My non-reader friends haven't figured it out.

The reviewer for AVClub who's unspoiled figured it out. They're intentionally dropping breadcrumbs for the viewers.

 

[fallengorn]

That reminds me, I really enjoyed Tyrion and Cersei's scene together. It was a nice change of pace to see them not at each others throats and just complain about being the children of Tywin Lannister.

 

[TheExodu5]

It's obvious to us but imagine if you haven't read the books - there is so much stuff being thrown at you. Family names, house names, nicknames, etc. I asked a friend if he was aware that Jaime and Brienne were now in the same castle that Arya and Gendry had just escaped from and he said no - one castle looks like all the others. It's information overload.

Heh, yeah, everyone I've talked to thought that Roose Bolton was in Winterfell.

 

[Speevy]

When this season first started, I didn't even notice that the place Robb Stark arrived at was the same place Arya was last season (Harrenhaal).