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[rar]

I completely disagree with you. Arya Stark is a child who had her father taken away from her.

Without some serious montages and ridiculous over-development, they've managed to show her escaping one place and getting into all sorts of trouble, as a child would.

This show has had 26 episodes, and has managed to juggle dozens of different story threads from one end of the world to another.

If they had started with a different actress, they would have had to pick another Sansa, because the two make believable sisters. They're just girls. One's a princess, the other's a tomboy, and their lives have been and continue to be torn apart.

Arya's story is one of adventure, not war or torture.

really? her story is just an adventure? if that was true, her story really wouldn't be that interesting. that statement is sort of at odds with other stuff you say - she's had her father taken away from her, and her life has been and continues to be torn apart. and then she has to deal with even more depressing and shitty situations, but she gets through it because she's a badass and slightly sociopathic. for me that's what her story is about, dealing with and overcoming tragedy and a shitty world. except in the show so far, it's doesn't really seem that bad, and she doesn't deal with it as badass-ly

talking about the format of the show or casting difficulties doesn't change the fact that i think it could have been handled better. i'm not just going to put my hands up and say, "oh, they did their best", and love everything about the show. there is stuff i do love about the show, and that's why i watch it, but i also like to complain about other stuff. people can put me on ignore if they don't want to read it

I thought Arya's "I can be your family" was one of the sweetest moments in the series, book or show. Your views suck.

i'm glad you liked it, but i don't care

 

[Yaboosh]

Question. Reading the synopsis, it seems there's a bit of a divergence in this season from the books, regarding Harenhall:

Spoiler

Apparently the Brave Companions have Harrenhal in the books. What was their role early in book 3 and how did they obtain Harrenhal? My memory is quite hazy concerning those details

.

Asos

Spoiler

Tywin gave it to them. The Bloody Mummers are the ones who cut off Jamie's hand in the book.

 

[TheExodu5]

Asos

Spoiler

Tywin gave it to them. The Bloody Mummers are the ones who cut off Jamie's hand in the book.

Hmmm...what's up with this line from the synopsis, then (second half of ASOS):

Spoiler

He is going to spare every castle expect one. Tyrion proposes that the exception will be Harrenhal, which is confirmed by Lord Tywin who announces that he has already commanded Ser Gregor Clegane to attack the castle and rid the realm of the Brave Companions.

Spoiler

Did he just hire them in secret? Am I not supposed to know he hired them at this point?

 

[Yaboosh]

Hmmm...what's up with this line from the synopsis, then (second half of ASOS):

Spoiler

Did he just hire them in secret? Am I not supposed to know he hired them at this point?

Asos

Spoiler

The Bloody Mummers backstab Tywin by defeating the remaining Lannisters after Tywin leaves and handing the castle over to Roose Bolton. Bolton then names the head of the bloody mummers lord of Harrenhall. So Tywin and the Bllody Mummers aren't exactly on speaking terms.

 

[TheExodu5]

Asos

Spoiler

The Bloody Mummers backstab Tywin by defeating the remaining Lannisters after Tywin leaves and handing the castle over to Roose Bolton. Bolton then names the head of the bloody mummers lord of Harrenhall. So Tywin and the Bllody Mummers aren't exactly on speaking terms.

Gotcha. Thanks!

And holy shit, from the same chapter:

Spoiler

Roose Bolton becomes Warden of the North and his bastard son will marry Arya Stark.

After watching this past episode, that scares the shit out of me.

 

[Speevy]

really? her story is just an adventure? if that was true, her story really wouldn't be that interesting. that statement is sort of at odds with other stuff you say - she's had her father taken away from her, and her life has been and continues to be torn apart. and then she has to deal with even more depressing and shitty situations, but she gets through it because she's a badass and slightly sociopathic. for me that's what her story is about, dealing with and overcoming tragedy and a shitty world. except in the show so far, it's doesn't really seem that bad, and she doesn't deal with it as badass-ly

talking about the format of the show or casting difficulties doesn't change the fact that i think it could have been handled better. i'm not just going to put my hands up and say, "oh, they did their best", and love everything about the show. there is stuff i do love about the show, and that's why i watch it, but i also like to complain about other stuff. people can put me on ignore if they don't want to read it

The two things aren't at odds with each other. It's just one medium's interpretation of something vs. another one's.

In a book, it's easy to believe someone has become something else entirely. In a show, you have to show slow development toward something.

Do you honestly think they've given Arya enough screen time to have her develop into a sociopath? She learned to use a sword, so she stabbed a boy. She barely knows how to use a bow so far.

The show can only benefit from developments on the show, not on the page.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I loved Loras' hurried, comically unconvincing delivery of "yes, me too, definitely" after Sansa told him she felt like she was in a dream.

I don't really like how Loras is being played in the show with scenes like this. They're making him too awkward. He's a knight who has lived in court all his life and gives flowers to adoring girls. The fact that he's gay doesn't mean that he should be awkward around girls.

I also think that some of the scenes they've added in this season have characters expressing much more 20th century views on homosexuality than would be realistic for the setting.

Hmmm...what's up with this line from the synopsis, then (second half of ASOS):

Spoiler

Did he just hire them in secret? Am I not supposed to know he hired them at this point?

No, that's incorrect.

Spoiler

It was Roose who gave the Brave Companions Harrenhall after he left. Not sure why the other poster said it was Tywin.

 

[ZackieChan]

But thats how it started for him.

Spoiler

It Progressively gets worse for theon. A flap of skin here, a finger there, more skin. A mental test. The mind games Ramsay plays on Theon go beyond the physical torture.

I think they are playing it perfectly so far.

I think the exact opposite. The great thing about it was ADWD

Spoiler

how he just disappears, and reappears in this completely ruined state. It was brilliant, and was my favorite part of that book. The time gap is exactly why it worked so well and was so amazing. Seeing it happen in real time just isn't doing it for me. And Ramsey is being played with very little subtlety, I think. I don't know...it's just not working, in my opinion.

 

[rar]

The two things aren't at odds with each other. It's just one medium's interpretation of something vs. another one's.

In a book, it's easy to believe someone has become something else entirely. In a show, you have to show slow development toward something.

Do you honestly think they've given Arya enough screen time to have her develop into a sociopath? She learned to use a sword, so she stabbed a boy. She barely knows how to use a bow so far.

The show can only benefit from developments on the show, not on the page.

she shouldn't be a sociopath at this point, and how does her mastery of weapons have anything to do with it? i don't see how making things easier on arya will make her character development go smoother, that just doesn't make sense. and yeah obviously her story could use more screen time, just like every other character's. that doesn't mean i won't criticize the way it's handled

 

[Zeliard]

I don't really like how Loras is being played in the show with scenes like this. They're making him too awkward. He's a knight who has lived in court all his life and gives flowers to adoring girls. The fact that he's gay doesn't mean that he should be awkward around girls.

I also think that some of the scenes they've added in this season have characters expressing much more 20th century views on homosexuality than would be realistic for the setting.

My impression was that Loras felt the whole marriage arrangement to Sansa was awkward, not necessarily being around a girl. I thought his discomfort mirrored Tyrion's later on, though Loras has been more subtle about it. But I can definitely see your point; there is certainly some of that stuff in play in general.

 

[iamblades]

The two things aren't at odds with each other. It's just one medium's interpretation of something vs. another one's.

In a book, it's easy to believe someone has become something else entirely. In a show, you have to show slow development toward something.

Do you honestly think they've given Arya enough screen time to have her develop into a sociopath? She learned to use a sword, so she stabbed a boy. She barely knows how to use a bow so far.

The show can only benefit from developments on the show, not on the page.

I don't get why you think Arya is supposed to be a sociopath. Arya becomes violent because she has to, not because she is a sociopath.

SoS

Spoiler

Her killing of the tickler was the exact opposite of sociopathy. She is full of rage and desire for revenge, not a detached lack of empathy.

Even Dareon was out of the ideals of justice taught to her by her father, and she rationalizes a reason why the insurance guy deserves to die, which is not the thought process of a sociopath. Her training may turn her into one, but I think it's pretty clear she isn't one yet.

 

[Speevy]

I don't get why you think Arya is supposed to be a sociopath [/spoiler]

I don't

 

[Last Hearth]

As much as I like the show, I do think Arya's arc has been mishandled by the show. There are so many arcs that I understand that they invariably will do better with some than others. They don't have an unlimited budget. A writer is only limited by his imagination, he also has the luxury of not having a deadline. They have to work within a budget and have to get all 10 episodes out in 12 month. That's basically the entire LOTR trilogy worth of screen time in one year.

 

[Yaboosh]

I don't get why you think Arya is supposed to be a sociopath. Arya becomes violent because she has to, not because she is a sociopath.

SoS

Spoiler

Her killing of the tickler was the exact opposite of sociopathy. She is full of rage and desire for revenge, not a detached lack of empathy.

Series

Spoiler

The Faceless Men are quite sociopathic

 

[Zeliard]

As much as I like the show, I do think Arya's arc has been mishandled by the show. There are so many arcs that I understand that they invariably will do better with some than others. They don't have an unlimited budget. A writer is only limited by his imagination, he also has the luxury of not having a deadline. They have to work within a budget and have to get all 10 episodes out in 12 month. That's basically the entire LOTR trilogy worth of screen time in one year.

They've had a very rough task in adapting this particular series. It's not only massive in scope and incredibly detailed relative to a lot of other fantasy, but the use of POV characters makes it even trickier to translate to screen.

 

[iamblades]

Series

Spoiler

The Faceless Men are quite sociopathic

Not really, The only aspect of psychopathy/sociopathy there is lack of remorse/empathy, and even that is not really accurate, as they see death as a gift from the gods, so why should they feel remorse?

But of course you can't really apply modern diagnosis for mental disorders to fictional characters in a fantasy novel very easily.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

The botched Arya's arc in the second half of Season 2, but I think they've done a good job of trying to get it back on track here. While I miss (ASOS)

Spoiler

her visiting Lady Smallwood and seeing the Ghost of High Heart

I think they've done a much better job in general with her this season.

I just wish they had done a better job of establishing how the Brotherhood were loved by the smallfolk and not just given us a couple of lines of exposition by the Brotherhood saying they're trying to save the people.

 

[Last Hearth]

I don't know if I agree. They are doing better than last season with Arya, but it's still not working for me.

The only way I can see them fixing her is to have her attempt an escape in this next episode, and

Spoiler

have her kills a member of the BWB in cold blood while doing so, and get captured by the Hound after the escape

. That would go a long way into getting her character back on track. With GRRM writing this episode it might actually happen.

 

[devilhawk]

I don't know if I agree. They are doing better than last season with Arya, but it's still not working for me.

Mark your spoilers

 

[Tacitus_]

Gotcha. Thanks!

And holy shit, from the same chapter:


After watching this past episode, that scares the shit out of me.

Series

Spoiler

It's a fake Arya, since she hasn't been seen for years by the rulers of Westeros. The real Arya is doing her own thing elsewhere.

 

[MNC]

Regarding Arya and Mellisandre, I just rewatched the scene about the eyes and the way it's worded it definitely sounds like the eye colors mentioned would be shut forever, and not referring to Arya

Spoiler

going blind

.

Damn it, you should've marked where that happens in the books. Now I got spoiled.

 

[Tacitus_]

Damn it, you should've marked where that happens in the books. Now I got spoiled.

It happens in AFFC, ADWD

Spoiler

she gets better

 

[Deleted member 30609]

This season is so, so much better than season two. It's easily the best form the show has ever been in.

 

[Forkball]

So I've decided to read the books recently. Got through Game of Thrones and now I'm on Clash of Kings. I'm only on the prologue BUT STUFF IS SO DIFFERENT MAN STANNIS' WIFE AND SOME CREEPY FAT JESTER?

 

[The Anti-Monitor]

So I've decided to read the books recently. Got through Game of Thrones and now I'm on Clash of Kings. I'm only on the prologue BUT STUFF IS SO DIFFERENT MAN STANNIS' WIFE AND SOME CREEPY FAT JESTER?

I know, I know, oh, oh, oh.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

This season is so, so much better than season two. It's easily the best form the show has ever been in.

Definitely. Dialogue and acting are on fire and all the new characters work brilliantly, perhaps even better than they do on the page. Olenna is particularly wonderful.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

All of Arya's dialogue in the last episode was really bad. She runs up to Melisandre and says something like "You're going to hurt him!" And then just stands there and pouts at her and does nothing, which was their setup for Mel to spout some foreshadowing shit. Arya would be trying to steal a sword and stab her or punch her or something. Weak stuff.

I read the scene as Arya being frozen with fear because Mel could see the darkness inside of her despite and foreshadowed that she'll act on it despite having only just met. I really like the scene and it somewhat made up for the (ASOS)

Spoiler

ghost of High Heart being cut.

 

[1138]

So I've decided to read the books recently. Got through Game of Thrones and now I'm on Clash of Kings. I'm only on the prologue BUT STUFF IS SO DIFFERENT MAN STANNIS' WIFE AND SOME CREEPY FAT JESTER?

Too bad that the TV show ignores Moon Boy, Patchface and Butterbumps.

 

[Eidan]

I don't know if I agree. They are doing better than last season with Arya, but it's still not working for me.

The only way I can see them fixing her is to have her attempt an escape in this next episode, and have her kills a member of the BWB in cold blood while doing so,

Spoiler

and get captured by the Hound after the escape

. That would go a long way into getting her character back on track. With GRRM writing this episode it might actually happen.

Suggestions like this only highlight my problems with Arya in the book, and why I'm glad the show had taken the approach that it has.

 

[Qvoth]

holy shit @ littlefinger's lines near the end
so damn awesome

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Too bad that the TV show ignores Moon Boy, Patchface and Butterbumps.

It is really odd that the show seems to have something against the fools. Maybe they are afraid of PC backlash.

 

[Eidan]

I assume they just don't care about them. They have enough things to juggle besides worrying about casting the perfect Patchface.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

It is really odd that the show seems to have something against the fools. Maybe they are afraid of PC backlash.

I don't understand why as they're not disabled or anything; mostly they sing songs and act like goofs. Patchface is the only odd one, and that's because he suffered a mysterious trauma.

They're probably just not very important characters, though I bet fools will turn up at certain events in the series.

 

[Brashnir]

It is really odd that the show seems to have something against the fools. Maybe they are afraid of PC backlash.

They've pretty religiously cut anything that doesn't fit in with the dark fantasy aesthetic the show established early on. No jesters, no Tom o' Sevens, no singing Mance, Daario seems to not have blue hair, and so on.

I took Talisa's description of Westerosi as dark, grim and bearded as a bit of an inside jab at this.

 

[Ithil]

Patchface is what I would call "dark fantasy".

 

[Brashnir]

Patchface is what I would call "dark fantasy".

a mentally handicapped jester who runs around with bells on his head singing the same song over and over matches the show's aesthetic to you?

 

[Solo]

Jog my memory....the final scene of S2 was Dany-centric, right? If so, presumably S3 will be the first season that doesn't end on Dany.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Jog my memory....the final scene of S2 was Dany-centric, right? If so, presumably S3 will be the first season that doesn't end on Dany.

Season 2 closed with The Others marching on the Fist of the First Men. There was a Dany scene right before that, though, when she locked Xaro Xhoan Daxos and Dorreah in the vault.

 

[ultron87]

Jog my memory....the final scene of S2 was Dany-centric, right? If so, presumably S3 will be the first season that doesn't end on Dany.

Wasn't the last scene for S2 the Others marching on the Fist of the First Men?

 

[Brashnir]

Season 2 closed with The Others marching on the Fist of the First Men. There was a Dany scene right before that, though, when she locked Xaro Xhoan Daxos and Dorreah in the vault.

That's my recollection as well.

 

[calza]

Jog my memory....the final scene of S2 was Dany-centric, right? If so, presumably S3 will be the first season that doesn't end on Dany.

Why wouldn't it end with Dany? She probably won't be in episode 9, so would make sense for her to be in the last episode.

 

[The Anti-Monitor]

Why wouldn't it end with Dany? She probably won't be in episode 9, so would make sense for her to be in the last episode.

Especially considering the name of said episode.

 

[Solo]

Season 2 closed with The Others marching on the Fist of the First Men. There was a Dany scene right before that, though, when she locked Xaro Xhoan Daxos and Dorreah in the vault.

Wasn't the last scene for S2 the Others marching on the Fist of the First Men?

That's my recollection as well.

Whoops! You can tell I haven't rewatched any of the series lol. Thanks guys.

Why wouldn't it end with Dany? She probably won't be in episode 9, so would make sense for her to be in the last episode.

My assumption is S3 ends with *the* event, which doesn't involve Dany.

 

[The Anti-Monitor]

Whoops! You can tell I haven't rewatched any of the series lol. Thanks guys.



My assumption is S3 ends with *the* event, which doesn't involve Dany.

Nope, that's (ASOS)

Spoiler

Episode 9.
Episode 9 is called The Rains of Castamere, so it's obvious the Red Wedding happens on it.
Episode 10 is Mysha, so it's obviously gonna feature Daenerys heavily. And good for that, I mean, people are gonna need a victory for the good guys.

 

[Cornballer]

- TVbtN: Sunday cable ratings

Game of Thrones: 5.5M and a 2.9 in the 18-49 demo

- WiC.net: The climb continues: Thrones sets yet another series high

 

[Subitai]

Ygritte really put Jon in a tough emotional position. They're really making sure we know he really likes her. ASoS

Spoiler

How will they show him take finding her w/ an arrow trying to defend the wall? Can't wait for next season already.

holy shit @ littlefinger's lines near the end
so damn awesome

Littlefinger top player for real.

Edit: 5.5 mil! Sopranos here we come! Ratings probably will go down after this week w/ an ending w/ a weaker hook.

 

[Solo]

Nope, that's (ASOS)

Spoiler

Episode 9.
Episode 9 is called The Rains of Castamere, so it's obvious the Red Wedding happens on it.
Episode 10 is Mysha, so it's obviously gonna feature Daenerys heavily. And good for that, I mean, people are gonna need a victory for the good guys.

Ah yes, very good. So only 3 weeks until *it* happens

 

[Brashnir]

Especially considering the name of said episode.

Just looked up the title, and yeah, that pretty much says exactly what that episode is going to be about. They might not close with that moment exactly, but it's going to be in there.

 

[Eidan]

- TVbtN: Sunday cable ratings

- WiC.net: The climb continues: Thrones sets yet another series high

I don't even know what to say anymore. Great news.

 

[blainethemono]

I still think the final scene of the season will end up being (ASOS)

Spoiler

Lady Stoneheart

Fits the episode title as well.