"God's Beard!"
Member
Might wanna spoiler that cubicle.
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Game of Thrones *Tagged Book Spoilers, Please Read OP* |OT| Season 3 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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ASOS
I don't think the number of chapters their relationship lasts matters much. At this point in his arc (pre-Queenscrown), Ygritte is a pretty dominant force in Jon's story.
cubicle47b
Member
I guess. I think this thread goes completely overboard on spoiler tagging things. I can somewhat understand spoiler tagging AFFC/ADWD material but if you're reading this thread and haven't read Storm of Swords you're a fucking idiot.
Regarding Theon and his captor ASOS:
I think they aren't going to reveal who he is until the Red Wedding. Roose is there and everyone is mingling, and Robb comes over and there's a guy next to him and Roose introduces him as his bastard, Ramsay. And he turns around and all the show only watchers are like WTF. Or some similar reveal at the Red Wedding and Ramsay will be involved there somehow.
I just feel like they are going to do a one two punch of both reveals for maximum fuck upedness.
I just feel like they are going to do a one two punch of both reveals for maximum fuck upedness.
User 100115
Banned
I think we are being extra careful because some people might accidentally click this thread instead of the other and get spoiled. We are being kind.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Logically, I really don't see why Roose Bolton's bastard would be at a wedding that important. Jon Snow wasn't even allowed to eat dinner with his family and the royal family in the pilot. Ramsay is just the bastard son of a minor lord. Not saying it couldn't happen though.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
[ASoS/Show speculation]
Sure it would make sense within the show but it would seem awfully hokey to me. Do we really need Robb being betrayed by his own wife too? Its bad enough his bannermen betray him but then having Talisa switch sides too? Eh. It would all depend on the execution of such a reveal of course, but the RW is dramatic and emotional enough as it is in the books that I don't think they need to toss in some heavy handed reveal that Robb just married and knocked up a Lannister spy who has been spying on him for months/years. That would just seem like some daytime soap opera shit, IMO. Its bad enough that Robb screws up by marrying anyone other than the Frey he was betrothed to. They don't need to compound Robb's stupidity by making him fall for a Lannister super spy. It would make the RW go from this sort of far reaching consequence to a one time mistake that Robb regrets and the fallout of that, to Robb just being the biggest dumbass in the seven kingdoms and then being murdered for being a total dumbass. I just think it would be an unneeded wrinkle in a plot event thats gripping as hell already. The showrunners just trying to make their mark on it by tossing in another ingredient is just as likely to ruin it as anything.
Yeah, its like Dany last season. You could give her material to the finest actor in the world and it would still suck.
The actors are only going to be as good as the writing. And on occasion, the writing on the show can be pretty bad- "Where are my dragons?Where are my dragons?Where are my dragons?Where are my dragons?Where are my dragons?Where are my dragons?Where are my dragons?Where are my dragons?"
[ASoS/ Show speculation]
I do wonder how they'll do that reveal. In the books it is known before the RW that Ramsay has Theon captive. Roose hands Robb a piece of Theon's flayed skin as they're planning their attack on Moat Cailan. But the books frame Ramsay as a total psycho that nobody really likes, way back when he is first referenced in ACoK when he rapes and locks Lady Hornwood in a cell in the Dreadfort. He's frames as much more of a loose cannon there that even Roose doesn't necessarily have control over.
The issue with the show reveal for Ramsay is that the audience knows that Ramsay knows Rickon and Bran are alive. That's info you'd think Robb would want to know about and Ramsay not communicating that information to Robb via Roose would seem mighty suspicious.
The issue with the show reveal for Ramsay is that the audience knows that Ramsay knows Rickon and Bran are alive. That's info you'd think Robb would want to know about and Ramsay not communicating that information to Robb via Roose would seem mighty suspicious.
[ASoS spoilers/ TV speculation]
Nevermind the logistics of Ramsay making it down from the Dreadfort down to the Twins in time for the wedding. I guess the show plays fast and loose with travel but even that would be stretching it, especially considering that travel is supposed to be bad due to the rain by the Twins.
http://i.minus.com/i9YIEWFuGCmGn.gif
Someone needs to photoshop glowsticks in the claws of the dragons and caption it with "DRAGON RAVE" in flashing letters.
Someone needs to photoshop glowsticks in the claws of the dragons and caption it with "DRAGON RAVE" in flashing letters.
Looks very likely the reveal will come in episode 9, I think Roose might deliver a piece of flayed Theon-skin to Cat/Robb
Ramsay being present the RW would make up for this long torture, but the Dreadfort to Twins travel makes me think it's not happening that way
Ramsay being present the RW would make up for this long torture, but the Dreadfort to Twins travel makes me think it's not happening that way
But this is sort of how it went down in the book, the difference being ASOS
It's assumed that Jeyne didn't know about the plot. I could see it play out on the show that Talisa was sent to spy and fuck Robb but ended up falling in love with him, thus she will end up being how Jeyne was in the book- pretty pissed on how everything played out.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Two weeks? There's an episode next week, then there's the two week wait, right? This was only episode 7.
ASOS/Show Speculation
It sounds like your big issue is just that it would be a change. I'm still not grasping why it would be a change for the worse. Tywin believes that they must make a concerted effort to bring about Robb's downfall, outside of the battlefield. Talisa is a plant meant to destroy Robb's alliance with the Freys. It works for me.
Will it make Robb seem dumb in the grand scheme of things? Probably. But Robb IS dumb. Whether it's being duped by a Lannister spy, or it's compromising a vital alliance to protect the honor of a woman he doesn't even fucking know. Robb Stark is an idiot.
Will it make Robb seem dumb in the grand scheme of things? Probably. But Robb IS dumb. Whether it's being duped by a Lannister spy, or it's compromising a vital alliance to protect the honor of a woman he doesn't even fucking know. Robb Stark is an idiot.
Cornballer
Member
Yes. The final three episodes from this season air on May 19th, June 2nd, and June 9th.
cubicle47b
Member
During this part of the book their relationship is certainly important but the show started their relationship halfway through CoK instead of the early part of SoS. I think their interaction is starting to get stale.
ASOS
I think it all works to increase the dramatic effect of Ygritte's death. If people were upset about Ros dying, I can't wait to see the reaction to Jon's lady love going back to the mud.
ASOS
I think people underestimate how many show watchers really like Jon Snow. Book readers often seem to only grumble about how they are botching his story this way or that way, but I ask my mom who her favorite character on the show is and it's Jon Snow. She's totally into his romance thing, and how he's torn between the two sides and how it's all going to end up with the wildlings and Night's Watch.
Book readers just really liked Qhorin Halfhand...for some reason.
cubicle47b
Member
I understand what they're going for, but (like Arya) I wish last season they would have played it closer to the book.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Jon Snow is definitely the most popular show character, Dany and Tyrion are close though.
Cornballer
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";57561630]Jon Snow is definitely the most popular show character, Dany and Tyrion are close though.[/QUOTE]FWIW, IGN did a poll mid-S2. Perhaps there are too many options listed there, but it's Tyrion way out in front (40%) and Jon Snow (13%) & Arya (11%) after that. Dany is 4th (6%). I'd be curious if/how the results would change if they did this again right now.
I just feel like it's a major disservice to gloss over Qhorin and Jon's plan to spy on the Wildlings in a 30 second scene, and then to totally botch their fight which could have redeemed it somewhat
cubicle47b
Member
Dany's arc on the show was really bad last season so her being at 6% isn't surprising. I'd expect her to be much higher than that now.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
[Show Speculation]
I wonder if there're subtle hints there. I see a word that looks like "embryo" in the first line, and one that looks like "prumo" (could be "prime" for "king") in the letter. Maybe it really is a letter to her mother.
Of course, I'm pulling this out of my butt and it could mean nothing.
Last Hearth
Member
Qhorin is one of those really badass characters that appears very briefly in the books but just have a spectacular arc. Oberyn and Jaquen are 2 others. Those 3 are probably three of the most popular non-pov characters in the series.
But when it really comes down to it, as interesting as his time with Jon Snow was, Qhorin is an almost inconsequential character when it comes to the actual plot. And the TV show only has time for the plot. The only truly important thing Qhorin did was setup Jon as a double agent/spy in the wildlings, which was accomplished in the show. Beyond that his character is completely meaningless as far as the shows needs. He is a plot device for Jon Snow to gain the wildlings' trust.
cubicle47b
Member
Qhorin serves as a good short-term mentor for Jon. The chase through the Skirling Pass is exciting and really shows the honor, courage, and intelligence of the Night's Watch members involved. It culminates with one of the most meaningful fights in the series.
On the show, Jon chases Ygritte twice and gets captured and all of his interactions with Ygritte in season 2 make him look dumb.
It's pretty understandable that book readers wouldn't be terribly happy about it.
Last Hearth
Member
"Sharp" to me was one of the top moments from the entire series.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
[ASoS Major Spoilers/ TV speculation]
Sure, I don't know how they'd film it and maybe it would end up fine. It would just seem like a needless change to just overemphasize that Robb fucked up. Robb being impulsive and fucking up by marrying Jeyne or Talisa is a mistake that is entirely his own. He created that problem for himself and that provided an opening for Tywin to peddle his influence. Having Tywin be behind Talisa from the start just makes him seem too damn omnipotent and like some all powerful supervillain. It makes the origin of the RW not Robb making a mistake on his own but instead Tywin manipulating Robb from the start. Its basically Robb slitting his own throat in the book since he is acting on his own to set up his downfall. If Talisa is a plant sent by Tywin, then Robb's downfall isn't so much self inflicted (which is where the tragedy of it comes from) but he was simply duped and played for a fool.
But it would depend on how they revealed this. If they have Talisa turncoat as the crossbow bolts are flying all cold like, that would seem corny and over the top, IMO. If they have it revealed somehow where its explained she started out as a spy but then fell in love with Robb, thats corny as hell too.
I just don't see what you're gaining by making Talisa out to be a spy, other than being really heavy handed that "HEY! ROBB WAS BETRAYED!" It doesn't seem to add anything to the RW that isn't there already. Less is more sometimes.
But it would depend on how they revealed this. If they have Talisa turncoat as the crossbow bolts are flying all cold like, that would seem corny and over the top, IMO. If they have it revealed somehow where its explained she started out as a spy but then fell in love with Robb, thats corny as hell too.
I just don't see what you're gaining by making Talisa out to be a spy, other than being really heavy handed that "HEY! ROBB WAS BETRAYED!" It doesn't seem to add anything to the RW that isn't there already. Less is more sometimes.
That's a big part of my problem with how the show handles certain characters though. Its like they just treat some as plot devices and forget that they have to make them actually interesting and have some character. The Qhorin stuff in the books was pretty great and the chase actually suspenseful. Qhorin provided a cool look at how other Night's Watch men operated and allowed Jon to learn some stuff on how to be a leader.
ASOS/Show speculation
Did Tywin stick Robb's dick into Talisa? Did anyone force him to marry her? If not, then Robb's downfall is still largely self-inflicted.
[ASOS major spoilers and TV Show speculation]
Also, gotta love people warming up to Jaime. He's da man. [ASOS/AFFC?]
what if Talisa is revealed to be a spy but killed nonetheless? Like "you're just collateral now, you have outlived your usefulness"?
Also, gotta love people warming up to Jaime. He's da man. [ASOS/AFFC?]
I hope they include his gold hand and his "Goldenhand the Just" musings.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Pretty much.
If she turns out to be a spy I will be very disappointed, because there's no reason for it. It also moves Robb from a guy who screwed up, to someone who was totally betrayed. The whole point of it in the books was Robb is young and stupid, and his decisions led to his downfall.
Not to mention the idea that they could plant someone who he would fall in love with and marry is absurd.
Not to mention the idea that they could plant someone who he would fall in love with and marry is absurd.
Steelyuhas
Member
ASOS
I hope they still do it, and it still makes sense. Even with Talisa pregnant, an unborn child cannot lead his kingdom should he fall in battle. He could learn early next ep from Kings Landing that Sansa is going to marry Tyrion, and then he could have two scenes in the episode, both very similar to book ones: Discussion with his Mother about naming an heir and wanting to name Jon, and then a council scene where he has his lords bear witness to his heir naming, and then perhaps he sends Blackfish back to the Twins and to simplify, the Blackfish now holds his heir declaration in the future.
I got sick of waiting.
LOL
The little glance away is so good.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
ASOS clarification please
Did Robb actaully name Jon his heir? I thought he was just thinking about it, but it never came to pass.
ASOS/show spec.
And he would still be young and stupid, and his decisions would still lead to his downfall. Again, I'm not seeing the problem.
And I don't think the idea is that absurd at all.
And I don't think the idea is that absurd at all.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
It's absurd because...
Tywin has underestimated Robb at every turn. He has a very loyal army, and is winning the battle. It is stupid to think Tywin would send in a spy under the assumption that Robb would fall for her and break his vow to the Frey's. It's just stupid and makes Tywin look like a desperate fool if that was his plan.
Steelyuhas
Member
Last Hearth
Member
Actually it has been confirm. The ASOIAF IOS App which was written by Elio and GRRM confirmed it.
ASOS/show spec.
Tywin grows to respect Robb's abilities when it comes to strategy and warfare, but he still thinks of Robb as a boy. Why is it stupid for Tywin to believe that Robb, a young man who is bound to marry a Frey (a family known for being quite unattractive), could be seduced by an attractive young woman?
Moff
Member
another good, but not great episode
the dragons look goddamn amazing, they are really the highlight of the show
the bear pit was underwhelming, this is one of the many big highlights of ASOS but I somehow doubt this will be equally memorable to the watchers.
ASOS
the dragons look goddamn amazing, they are really the highlight of the show
the bear pit was underwhelming, this is one of the many big highlights of ASOS but I somehow doubt this will be equally memorable to the watchers.
ASOS
I really like how they are setting up the RW though, one of the shows flaws is that they rarely explain connections and why characters are doing what they're doing, but the RW is mentioned a lot and is clearly an important event where lots of characters attend. to my shame I must confess I was not at all aware of who roose bolton was at the time of the RW, I remembered the leech stuff in harrenhal but I completely forgot his role at the RW, I think this will be much clearer to the show watchers, and I think they will reveal at the same time who theons torturor is, so this will fit in nicely
cubicle47b
Member
Assuming she's a spy I highly doubt Tywin sent her to specifically seduce and marry Robb. He sent her to feed him information and an attractive camp nurse is a pretty good cover. Robb doing something as politically stupid as marrying her just made it easy to exploit the situation.
I like that she apparently dies first at the RW and because of that I'm not fond of the honeypot angle.
I like that she apparently dies first at the RW and because of that I'm not fond of the honeypot angle.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
[ASoS/Show speculation]
I agree that based on how the show has presented things they could make that reveal work. But I just don't see what it adds to the RW that isn't already there.
Yes, its ultimately Robb that leads to Robb's downfall. But if Talisa is a honeypot spy, then its not necessarily Robb being the agent of his own downfall but its Tywin's scheming that ultimately got Robb to shoot himself in the foot. In the show and in the books, when Robb meets and marries Talisa/Jeyne, he is kicking ass and winning. He is beating the Lannisters. And in the books, him marrying Jeyne is totally on him and him alone. Whereas in the show, if Talisa is a honeypot spy then her even being in Robb's camp is Tywin's doing and thus Robb's downfall isn't a completely self inflicted wound at the onset but instead one of Tywin's schemes that just happened to stick.
I just don't know what the show would achieve by revealing Talisa as a spy. Robb's already going to be betrayed, I don't see what they'd gain by having his own wife betray him too. That seems like too much of a daytime soap opera thing for someone to do. It seems absurd . Maybe they could pull it off in execution but again, I just don't see the purpose of that when shit will hit the fan anyway. It would be piling on Robb just for the sake of piling on. The RW is a big enough deal on its own that I don't know what you gain by adding something like Talisa being revealed as a spy.
Yes, its ultimately Robb that leads to Robb's downfall. But if Talisa is a honeypot spy, then its not necessarily Robb being the agent of his own downfall but its Tywin's scheming that ultimately got Robb to shoot himself in the foot. In the show and in the books, when Robb meets and marries Talisa/Jeyne, he is kicking ass and winning. He is beating the Lannisters. And in the books, him marrying Jeyne is totally on him and him alone. Whereas in the show, if Talisa is a honeypot spy then her even being in Robb's camp is Tywin's doing and thus Robb's downfall isn't a completely self inflicted wound at the onset but instead one of Tywin's schemes that just happened to stick.
I just don't know what the show would achieve by revealing Talisa as a spy. Robb's already going to be betrayed, I don't see what they'd gain by having his own wife betray him too. That seems like too much of a daytime soap opera thing for someone to do. It seems absurd . Maybe they could pull it off in execution but again, I just don't see the purpose of that when shit will hit the fan anyway. It would be piling on Robb just for the sake of piling on. The RW is a big enough deal on its own that I don't know what you gain by adding something like Talisa being revealed as a spy.
Moff
Member
the tywin/geoffrey scene was not as bad as people said. tywin was just incredibly nice and polite, with a menacind and dark undertone. liked it but ASOS
where in the books is the big smackdown? I remember tywin getting angry when geoffrey claims that kings need to be bold. and tywin says thats surely something robert taught him. does he slap him there?
Steelyuhas
Member
ASOS
It's the scene with all the Lannisters gathered to learn about the RW. Should be in episode 10.
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