Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
"Qhorin Halfhand isn't important. Instead let's have Jon be confused and annoyed with Ygritte trying to rub up on Jon while they are resting."
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Game of Thrones *Tagged Book Spoilers, Please Read OP* |OT| Season 3 - Sundays on HBO
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"Qhorin Halfhand isn't important. Instead let's have Jon be confused and annoyed with Ygritte trying to rub up on Jon while they are resting."
Enosh
Member
[ASOS major spoilers and TV Show speculation]
if she really does turn out to be a spy and I still don't buy that video
there is a very simple reason to kill her, she is pregnant with robbs child, further northmen could use him/her (more if him) to claim back his birthright and revolt again
no Lannister or Frey would be that stupid to allow this to happen
if she really is a spy and really is pregnant she pretty much sealed her fate
there is a very simple reason to kill her, she is pregnant with robbs child, further northmen could use him/her (more if him) to claim back his birthright and revolt again
no Lannister or Frey would be that stupid to allow this to happen
if she really is a spy and really is pregnant she pretty much sealed her fate
From a pure plot standpoint, I'm not wrong. ASOS:
The showrunners obviously thought the time was better spent on Jon and Ygritte's relationship for the upcoming events than on Qhorin and Jon's relationship for stuff that has no plot relevance going forward. I do think however they handle Ygritte's death could be quite impactful because they've put the focus of the northern scenes on Jon and Ygritte.
EDIT: fixed broken tags, whoops hopefully I didn't ruin anything
They don't have time to waste on developing characters that serve no purpose going forward. It's far more valuable to use the time on Jon and Ygritte.
I'm not talking about the halfhand, I'm talking about Jon Snow. It was his character that got assassinated, and he's a much more important piece of the story than ASOS
the very soon to be dead
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Well, the character in the show is different from the character in the books. He is a Bolton soldier now, but he is a sellsword that changes allegiance from Lannister to Stark in the books.
He eventually gets tortured to death while the Lannisters recapture Harrenhal from him.
ASOS:
I'd argue his development based on his time with Halfhand is less important than how his relationship with Ygritte and her upcoming death will affect and change him.
Thought I'd share this here also. The credits song from last night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p8vYEgladw
Just sooooo damn good.
Just sooooo damn good.
AFFC -
I thought he gets eaten by the prisoners at Harrenhal and his head is presented to Jaime. I'm talking about Vargo Hoat though, not Loch.
It's not like making the Halfhand slightly more true to the books would hurt Ygritte. You're acting like they only has two options: ruin the Halfhand or ruin Ygritte. They could have treated both characters with respect, and had a better Snow arc in season two without harming his season 3 arc whatsoever.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
You're right.
Was confusing him with the other members of the Brave Companions Brienne encountered.
I think you may be confusing Hoat and Biter here.
Hoat is fed meat made from his own severed limbs in the dungeons of Harrenhaal, and iirc Brienne never encounters him again. It's Biter who attacks Brienne when the Brave Companions attack the Inn Gendry smiths at. She saves the kids who live there but the BwB remnant there turns her over to Stoneheart.
From memory, so apologies if I got any details mixed up.
negreenfield
Member
I'm trying to remember the other portion where Brienne is with
the guy who was maybe going to marry her or something as a part of some old joke that she encounters at Randal Tarley's stronghold? Don't they go try to find Sansa in some remote location and encounter other Brave Companions there? It's all starting to jumble together...
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
And Littlefinger. He did promise those gold cloaks to Ned, and ended up using them against Ned. Heh. But yeah Sansa didn't betray Ned.
I know. I think it's a red herring to be honest. I don't believe the spy theory, and if it turns out to be true I will be immensely disgusted. It's just a stupid-ass plot "twist".
That would be really stupid. [ASoS]
[ASoS/AFFC]
And their moments together in the frozen wild (which was plot and character development) was not only beautiful and powerful stuff, really showing their friendship and the courage and resourcefulness of the best Night Watch members, but it made their duel and Jon's killing of Qhorin all the more tragic and poignant. And it was completely and utterly lost in the TV series for the sake of a bunch of sex jokes (and making Jon into a complete tool instead of a brave and loyal and honourable, but desperate member of the Night Watch) which they keep recycling every time Ygritte's on. I like TV-Ygritte well enough but that shit got old fast and it was insipid compared to the awesome story arc of Jon with Qhorin.
How would he kill a bear without a weapon (Brienne only had a tourney sword) and one hand? -rolls eyes- The bear gets shot by Steelshanks's crossbow.
GRRM didn't write that scene. It was initially in episode 8 but got shuffled back in. Episode 7 was originally titled "Autumn Storms", then "Chains", before being retitled again to "The Bear and the Maiden Fair".
That would be really stupid. [ASoS]
Ramsay is at the Dreadfort, and the wedding is at the Twins. Nowhere close to each others, and why would Ramsay abandon his post just to attend his king's bannerman's wedding? I think they'll reveal he's Ramsay in that episode, yes, but he won't be at the Twins.
[ASoS/AFFC]
Wot? She doesn't even know they're supposed to be dead (though she fears they are) for sure. I hope they'll make her learn that they are really dead before she dies, so she can be in maximum vengeance mode as Lady Stoneheart.
"For some reason"? Ugh. See below.
100% this. He's one of those minor and short-lived but super memorable and awesome characters.
Fuck no. Qhorin is largely responsible for the kind of man Jon Snow became, [ASoS]
especially as Lord Commander. He always thinks about what Qhorin said, You must not balk, whatever is asked of you, and it haunts him to this day.
Thank you.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Yeah, I was getting things confused.
Vargo Hoat, died at Harenhall after his ear wound was infected. I wonder where the show will go now since they didn't bother with that...
When Brienne is sent to find Sansa, she encountered a few of the brave companions at Crackclaw Point and kills some of them. She then encountered another group of them at the crossroads.
When Brienne is sent to find Sansa, she encountered a few of the brave companions at Crackclaw Point and kills some of them. She then encountered another group of them at the crossroads.
That's
Shagwell I think you mean, the crazy jester
negreenfield
Member
Wait, so
Bloody Mummers and Brave Companions are two different groups? Ok, off to a wiki. I'm on my reread now, Chapter 37 of Game of Thrones so it will be a while before I get to AFFC and ADWD where I probably have the least amount of retention from the books.
Like I said, the charms of Qhorin Halfhand were lost on me. I hated all of Jon's ACOK arc, and Halfhand was no exception.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
The Bloody Mummers is a nickname people give (not to their face) to the Brave Companions. They're the same group. [AFFC]
Brienne just happens to encounter Shagwell, and then Rorge & Biter, separately. After Vargo gets tortured and killed by Ser Gregor when the Lannisters rekate Harrenhal they are kind of disbanded and scattered, I think.
Yeah well you also hate Arya and everything that's cool about the series, so...
All I'm saying is, when you are mapping out this story for 10 episodes, and have all the plot up on a white board full of note cards and are figuring out where things need to happen and what needs to be cut, the bulk of Qhorin's story with Jon is an easy cut to make.
It's understandably disappointing from a pure book reader perspective, but ASOS
considering there are other upcoming events that will have an effect on Jon in a similar way, and without knowing exactly how the showrunners are going to present them, it's very easy to see how they could still develop Jon to the same place simply at a different time.
People seem to get so hung up on whether or not a certain character is in the exact same mental place they are in the same point in time of the book. This is an adaptation, and there's no reason a certain character's development should be on the exact same pace, in the exact same place it was in the book. It's a reality of adaptation. They've already shown that they are willing to shift things from one book to another, and specific character development is no different.
People bemoan a specific line for not showing up in the same scene it was in the book, only for it to happen an episode or two later in a perfectly valid and fitting way, making the book bemoaner look kind of silly in hindsight. I have a feeling some of this Qhorin complaining falls into that same category.
negreenfield
Member
Yeah, I was just reading this on Tower of the Hand, thanks it's coming back to me now.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Yeah well you also hate Arya and everything that's cool about the series, so...
I feel the same way about the halfhand but Arya is one of my favorite characters.
Yeah well you also hate Arya and everything that's cool about the series, so...
I tend to not worry about small details that are changed, which is something that some book readers tend to always think are the most important aspects of any given story. To me the Halfhand was a forgettable guide who, like griffy explained, served only one purpose. I didn't enjoy him when he was in the story, and I didn't miss him when he was gone.
And on a completely different note, I never noticed that Tormund said "HAR" a lot. So the frequent complaints about the show's Tormund have been completely lost on me.
Not me. I just saw him as generic badass #80514. Ygritte was a far more memorable and impactful character than Qhorin ever was.
Macmanus
Member
Jon's journey with Quran was instrumental in setting up where his character will progress. With that said there is no reason why those lessons can't be distilled upon him with expanded Ygritte content, or even some solid scenes with Jon and Mance. It's fanboy whining about adaptations.
I'm upset about the lack of Belwas, but life moves on.
I'm upset about the lack of Belwas, but life moves on.
What do you call it when they, for example, turn the devoted and faithful Ser Loras from the books into a stereotype? "When the sun had set, no candle can replace it." Except some random dude who hits on you after some martial training, apparently. From Gay Slut to Dream Wedding Barbie, Loras has been spectacularly ill-treated.
So they make Loras into a huge Queen for laughs, and leave him alone as the only gay character on the show. The show has this huge opportunity to get into Ser Bryndon's back-story. He is widely thought to be a gay character in the books (called the Blackfish for his refusal to marry) which they not only ignore, but they turn him into a one-note thug. Why not have him be gay, show they can write a gay character without resorting to cheap stereotypes? Or at least not write him as a mindless thug, who solves every dispute by threatening to punch someone?
So, yeah, Loras and Brynden: from book to screen, turned into one-note characters as complex as a CBS sitcom joke. What else to call it but character assassination?
Blue Ninja
Member
Loved the reworking of "The Rains of Castamere" at the ending of the episode.
Last Hearth
Member
There is no evidence that Brynden is gay other than that he didn't marry. There are plenty of men in ASOIAF who don't marry who aren't gay, and gay nobles who did marry (like Renly). So I always found that speculation more or less groundless.
If you want to complain about Brynden Tully's characterization, you should complain about how they made him into kind of a jerk. In the books he consoles Edmure for missing the boat (and Edmure does make the shot on the 3rd try in the books) by telling him that it's understandable that his grief is affecting his aim.
If you want to complain about Brynden Tully's characterization, you should complain about how they made him into kind of a jerk. In the books he consoles Edmure for missing the boat (and Edmure does make the shot on the 3rd try in the books) by telling him that it's understandable that his grief is affecting his aim.
I'm so confused now
cubicle47b
Member
episode 9
Loras has sex with one guy and you're calling him a gay slut and a huge queen?
Also is it any of it really that much of a stretch for "The Knight of the Flowers"?
This is the reason why people don't take those who say "character assassination", seriously.
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
Yeah, I don't know why they made him into a jerk. It's kind of grating.
He just lost the love of his life. The way it played out, you wouldn't think so.
Liquidsnake
Banned
I thought Tywin would rip Joffrey a little more.
The Anti-Monitor
Banned
I don't know why you people disliked the Bear scene. I thoght it was great.
Oh and screw y'all Ygritte haters. I'd give up my vows too.
Oh and screw y'all Ygritte haters. I'd give up my vows too.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Probably because he didn't in the show.
Love and sex aren't the same thing. Calling him a slut is ridiculous and sad.
I think they are saving that for later on. This was just an appetizer.
I also liked it. It wasn't the book scene though, which is much beloved.
Gay or not, the Thugfish is a disappointing take on Brynden. And Loras being gay is played for laughs, also disappointing. The book series doesn't need to resort to cheap stereotypes for its gay characters.
Loras grieves deeply, and remains completely devoted to Renly, even in death. The show Loras cares more about Fren... fringed sleeves and casual sex.
I am not calling him a slut, just naming the stereotype they are drawing upon for his characterization.
He showed him who's really the boss - Joffrey's still the king and you can't just outright scold the king, no matter how much he may deserve it. That part where Tywin went up the stairs to tower over him was so cool tho.
There's no difference the way you're presenting it. You're making the leap in your own mind. It's not in the show.
And was mirrored in the very next scene with Dany, where she made the Yunkish noble sit in that little chair beneath her, and her dragons made him recoil when he went to stand up.
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