Willkiller
Banned
I get you, that whole arc at the end was utterly brilliant
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Game of Thrones *Tagged Book Spoilers, Please Read OP* |OT| Season 3 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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I get you, that whole arc at the end was utterly brilliant
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
ASOS
That is the moment that Stannis becomes incredibly awesome, and the most deserving of the throne.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Exactly. ASOS/Series
They started to touch on it in the show, where he's saying to Davos how he didn't ask for any of this, and alludes to not particularly WANTING to be King, but how it's his duty and destiny. I'm gonna be crushed if he dies in TWOW. Stannis the Mannis 4 life.
cj_iwakura
Member
He's the last scion of Baratheon. Unless Shireen becomes a first-rate badass(which would be amazing), Martin wouldn't dare kill him.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
[ASoS/ Series]
Yeah, the only fly in the ointment there with Stannis is how he wanted Jon to convert to R'hllor if he took his offer.
I get the sense that Stannis is not Azor Ahai reborn or anything and that something weird is going on there. WHat with Stannis having the fraudulent Lightbringer that doesn't generate heat, to him wanting to set up shop at the Nightfort, which is kind of the one castle on the Wall with a spooky history.
I just wouldn't be surprised if Stannis and Mel end up being duped somehow into helping the Others do whatever they're seeking to do. Like they may have noble intentions in saving the realm but as we've seen with Mel botching her readings of the flames, they're in over their head.
I get the sense that Stannis is not Azor Ahai reborn or anything and that something weird is going on there. WHat with Stannis having the fraudulent Lightbringer that doesn't generate heat, to him wanting to set up shop at the Nightfort, which is kind of the one castle on the Wall with a spooky history.
I just wouldn't be surprised if Stannis and Mel end up being duped somehow into helping the Others do whatever they're seeking to do. Like they may have noble intentions in saving the realm but as we've seen with Mel botching her readings of the flames, they're in over their head.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Series
To be fair, if Stannis was so concerned with rights and honor, he'd throw down with Danny.
Willkiller
Banned
Just remembered something else that had me freaking out ASOS
Arya on her way to Braavos and saying "Valar Morghulis".
TestOfTide
Banned
[series]
i would have brought up that stannis is probably against letting a woman rule, but his speech in the sample theon chapter about putting shireen on the throne contradicts that.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
series
Well, and to be my own devils advocate, Stannis may not even know about Danny. And it won't shock me if word about Griff, or Danny leads to Milledandre bailing on Stannis.
Not necessarily,
Robert won the throne through conquest, which debased the previous rulers. Dany has as much "right" to rule as anyone else who isn't an heir to Bobby B. She will need to regain the right to rule through conquest.
She has never staked her claim for the throne. It is the war of the five kings, not the war of five kings and a queen.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
lol @ the voiceover guy highlighting the sex and violence in this series to get you to buy it.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
That's when I will decide if Stannis is my favorite character or not. If daenerys/Aegon come over and say they're the rightful ruler(s), If Stannis still tries to become king or fight them especially if someone else is Azor Ahai reborn, he will become no better than Joffery and Theon and Robb.
If he goes to them and lays his sword at their feet, and says my meager army is yours, let me fight for you and decide what to do with me after we win you the throne.
It'd be one thing if they were just as crazy as Aerys, but they're both good candidates to rule besides the fact they are better heirs than Stannis, who keeps repeating over and over that he doesn't want it, its his duty, he sees ruling as a service to the realm.
If Dany forgives him for playing a part in killing her clearly crazy father, and doesn't even cut off the tips of his fingers, imagine that.
If he goes to them and lays his sword at their feet, and says my meager army is yours, let me fight for you and decide what to do with me after we win you the throne.
It'd be one thing if they were just as crazy as Aerys, but they're both good candidates to rule besides the fact they are better heirs than Stannis, who keeps repeating over and over that he doesn't want it, its his duty, he sees ruling as a service to the realm.
If Dany forgives him for playing a part in killing her clearly crazy father, and doesn't even cut off the tips of his fingers, imagine that.
The iron throne and all it represents is a Targaryen institution, not Baratheon. I think the 5 kings rebellion is supposed to show that even a house that is historically good friends with Targaryens, and even has some Targ blood in them, they can't keep hold of the Iron Throne. It takes dragons to rule Westeros, and only Targaryens can have dragons.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Series
I'm thinking of doing a NIntendo GOT one with Danny, and was thinking of ending this one with Tyrion telling Jeoffrey he's defecting... but I figured people would open their mouths and ruin it.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Series
Yeah, the Targaryens lost the throne, Stannis has more of a claim to it than Dany. Plus Stannis would be a much better ruler than Dany who fucking sucks at it.
Ape Gone Insane
Member
So I'm assuming theis the next EP?red wedding
Yes.
Can't wait to see the
My only concern is that
(ASOS Spoilers)
RW depicted in the show. Bums me out that we have to wait a week!
My only concern is that
Catelyn's death might have less of an impact for non-book readers since Catelyn seems to have a less prominent role this season, whereas she was a POV in ASOS, and basically our whole window to the North and Riverrun. Having a POV die is one of the most shattering events in the books.
On the other hand people seem to love show Robb so that might make up for that. And that theory that Catelyn might end up killing Talissa instead of Aegon Frey AKA Jinglebell after seeing Robb die (assuming that Talissa is indeed outed as a Lannister spy) could also give the scene quite a bit of impact as well.
On the other hand people seem to love show Robb so that might make up for that. And that theory that Catelyn might end up killing Talissa instead of Aegon Frey AKA Jinglebell after seeing Robb die (assuming that Talissa is indeed outed as a Lannister spy) could also give the scene quite a bit of impact as well.
Ape Gone Insane
Member
Do you reckon we might see the
Robb/Grey Wind mutilation?
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
ASOS
If they're impatient enough to reveal Stoneheart this season, then I would hope so as a way to emphasize that Robb is dead dead.
God that'd be horrible
That'd be awesome
That's an excellent point, and quite relevant since
They'd established in the show already that decapitated people are SOL and can't be brought back
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
Do you mean the wolf head sewn on a boys body? That might have never "really" happened.
It better happen on the show.
Nothing like a little defiling to get people worked up.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Convinced some friends we should do a viewing party for next up. AsosI've been calling it the Casterly Rock episode all week.
Just one week til it's one week til the finale!
ASOS
Try and get yourself a wolf head plush hat or something and wear it all night, just saying that you're on Team Stark.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
What kind of lord would keep a hall full of corpses in his castle? and for what? Dany saw it "metaphorically".
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
They're not talking about the dream, it comes up after the wedding (I think some of the Freys talk about it) and I'd imagine it's likely to be true given every side displays the corpses of their victims as a sign of victory and as a warning to others.
Well, I think what LAUGHTREY means is that ASOS
we never actually have any POV characters see it, so we can never know for sure because all we have is hearsay. Martin is good at this and it's one of the strengths of the books IMO. However, since Film and TV are visual mediums, and quite literal because of that, there's really no way of showing it without stating that it, as a matter of fact, happened. And like Dr. Forester brought up, audiences need a way of knowing that Robb is gone for good, and it'd also be quite visually shocking (and this is a show that has had like 30 minutes of torture this season alone)
It's similar to AFFC / ADWD
We keep hearing how Davos is dead and his head on a spike, but he really isn't. We also don't know for sure if the Hound is dead as the Elder Brother stated
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
They threw Cats body in the river. They dgaf. If you want to do stuff like that, they hang their bodies from the ramparts, not sew a wolf head on the body and put them in your house.
but that was them mocking the Tully funeral traditions, like the wolf head would mock the starks
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
ADWD
Did anyone think for a second Davos was dead when reading AFFC though? That Martin would offhandedly kill a POV character via letter to Kings Landing?
I suspected that he wouldn't, but that was was the only time I immediately checked the Wiki to see if he was still alive. <3 Davos
series
I think that would be totally out of character for Stannis. First, I think the idea that kingship can be taken by right of conquest is pretty well established. The Targaryen claim is ended, even if their line is not. He was ready to kill Dany and Viserys on Dragonstone if he had gotten there on time. And secondly, the one thing that trumps duty to a king to Stannis is duty to family, which includes his duty to his brother's legacy and to his daughter's inheritance. I don't see any way he would recognize Dany or Aegon/
timetokill
Banned
I think that's pretty much guaranteed, though I think it'd make an excellent parting shot for the third season as a whole. Just cut from that to credits.
CitizenVectron
Member
I'd much rather see that as the last shot of the season than the other much-rumoured one: [ASOS]
Lady Stoneheart
Of course, I'd also much rather have [ASOS]
Have an uplifting ending (or at least some sort of good events from somewhere) because you can easily lose viewers if you're too negative for too long with too many character deaths and not enough hope.
Steelyuhas
Member
Random idea off the top of my head ASOS/Season End
Show Grey Robb and then have a shot that pans out of The Twins and follows down river, join Beric and Thoros on the banks of river with her body. Revival scene, episode ends on an eye opening after a slow pan in to get closer and closer.
For the record I would love to end the scene on a long holding shot with the wolf head, but they simply won't do it. They are going to end on a hook.
For the record I would love to end the scene on a long holding shot with the wolf head, but they simply won't do it. They are going to end on a hook.
MAJOR ASOS
I would do the headswap as the beginning of episode ten. After the chaos of the end of episode 9, cutting out on Catelyn's throat getting slit, open ep10 on a Frey whistling as he casually saws away at something. Maybe a closeup on a needle stitching something together. Cut to Edmure demanding to know what's going on and where the king is. Oh hey, here he is. Oh, your sister? Dumped her in the river. That's what you Tully's do, right? Then from there go and give us the reaction scenes of Joffrey/Tyrion/Sansa/Stannis/Theon finding out what happened and giving their own reactions to it.
Steelyuhas
Member
ASOS
I had never thought of getting to see Edmure afterwards in the show. That could be very interesting.
As for how they do the aftermath in Ep 10, there are several ways that can be equally successful in their own right, I'm very excited to see what they did.
As for how they do the aftermath in Ep 10, there are several ways that can be equally successful in their own right, I'm very excited to see what they did.
-------------------------------
Okay, I'm not one to normally quote from the other thread, but I just had to for this one:
Holy shit people are in for it! His wish would be badass as shit though.
Enosh
Member
series
that's not how it works... at all
when Robert died he was the king, the line of succession is -> his children -> stannis -> Renly -> some other related lords I don't even know, stannis disputed the legitimacy of the children so he is next in line for the crown and the rightful king, Danny or Aegon are no where near in that line of succession, them coming over means fuck all, if they win the throne then she is the queen or he the king whatever, if not they are just pretenders, like Robb or Greyjoy were trying to remove the line of succession that was in place before
it's like some long lost Tudor ancestor coming back into england after the queen dies and claiming the crown is now his, yeah no doesn't work like that, Windsor is the ruling house atm and the hypothetical Tudor can go fuck himself
TLR, Stannis has no obligation whatsoever to bow to Danny or Aegon
when Robert died he was the king, the line of succession is -> his children -> stannis -> Renly -> some other related lords I don't even know, stannis disputed the legitimacy of the children so he is next in line for the crown and the rightful king, Danny or Aegon are no where near in that line of succession, them coming over means fuck all, if they win the throne then she is the queen or he the king whatever, if not they are just pretenders, like Robb or Greyjoy were trying to remove the line of succession that was in place before
it's like some long lost Tudor ancestor coming back into england after the queen dies and claiming the crown is now his, yeah no doesn't work like that, Windsor is the ruling house atm and the hypothetical Tudor can go fuck himself
TL
R, Stannis has no obligation whatsoever to bow to Danny or Aegonyeah, not anymore when they lost
Moff
Member
no thats not true, stannis is the one with the best claim at the moment.
I wont say the targaryens have no claim at all, as far as I know there are always people with claims, but some have a better one than others.
it breaks down to this:
there are several kinds of claims and legitimacy, the most important ones for this show are legitimacy thorugh heritage and legitimacy through conquest
some 300 years ago we hade 7 kingdoms, all their kings had their legitimacy thorugh heritage from their parents
until AEGON came, hee took his legitimcy through conquest, and in that moment, all the sons of the kings in the 7 kingdoms lost most of their claim. they just lost it. the targaryens became the rulers at that point and
the targaryens ruled for 300 years, the legitimacy now always thorugh heritage
Roberts Rebellion changes everything again, he killed the targaryen king Aerys II and hereby destroyes most of the claim the targaryens had, exactly like Aegon did 300 years earlier
now Baratheon rules, and again, the best claim is legitimacy through heritage, which would be Roberts Kids, but as we now they are Lannister wich makes his oldest Brother Stannis the one true and rightful king, thats what he is called in the show and its not a joke, he is the rightful king and does not need the bend the knee to any targaryen, his claim is stronger because the targaryen claim was destroyed when Roberts Rebellion succeeded.
its not as clear as that though, as i said, claims dont get destroyed completely, there is always some left, and in the end the only important thing is who do the people follow? explained Varys little speech about who the sellswords follow, the king, the septon or the gold, its also why most lords supported renly and not stannis.
but there are definitely better and worse claims, and right now, Stannis' claim for the iron throne is the best, no doubt, he is the one true king.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Well, Robert was still named king by his allies because he he was the next in line to the throne. After all the other heirs were killed/exiled. His great grandfather was Aegon V, who was also grandfather to Aerys.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
Nah. The 7 kingdoms as one was made by a Targaryen, and the 7 kingdoms agreed to be ruled by them and their descendants. Like Umber says in the show, it's the dragons they bowed to. Robert was never really King since the real king was Viserys, no one can strip the title of King from someone like they can Lords, you have to be dead. The history with the Blackfyre Rebellion and Dance of the Dragons shows this deliberately.
Robert was no more the real king than Joffery. He didn't combine the realms together, he cut his way to the top and supplanted himself of an already established kingdom. The rebels put him there since he was a Baratheon and 8th in line for the throne anyway, he only got it because of his Targ blood. If all the Targs he killed died of natural causes, he would've been king anyway he was that high up.
Series
AFFC
Robert was no more the real king than Joffery. He didn't combine the realms together, he cut his way to the top and supplanted himself of an already established kingdom. The rebels put him there since he was a Baratheon and 8th in line for the throne anyway, he only got it because of his Targ blood. If all the Targs he killed died of natural causes, he would've been king anyway he was that high up.
Series
Unless Aegon and Deanerys fight each other instead of the very obvious solution of marrying each other, Stannis will be wiped out by their respective armies for nothing. Dany has dragons. Aegon I had to use 3 dragons only one time, and it was when 3 kingdoms allied to fight back their army. There isn't an army on Westeros that can withstand their combined army and dragons, let alone Stannis who is ironically the only person that would be her friend. Dragons win it, Dany and Aegon have the best claim and almost equal if you want Dorne to ally with you.
Aegon has been raised to think about being King the same way Stannis says he does. It's a duty and service to the people who bend the knee. Deanerys has done things with a sense of justice as iron as Stannis. It would be perfect poetry for him to fight for her, and her to cut off his sword hand or fingers or something after the fightings done for the part he played in Roberts rebellion. And this would be leniency if she accepts her father was a fucking lunatic.
Aegon has been raised to think about being King the same way Stannis says he does. It's a duty and service to the people who bend the knee. Deanerys has done things with a sense of justice as iron as Stannis. It would be perfect poetry for him to fight for her, and her to cut off his sword hand or fingers or something after the fightings done for the part he played in Roberts rebellion. And this would be leniency if she accepts her father was a fucking lunatic.
AFFC
Stannis clearly isn't Azor Ahai reborn, and he isn't the prince that was promised either. Stannis is a plot device for Melissandre to do things, and to get to Jon and see he is Azor Ahai. If Stannis can also have an interesting character arc by doing what no one expects and single-handily being responsible for the success of the Targaryens, it'd be much better than his guaranteed smoting by the breath of Drogon.
Moff
Member
The 7 kingdoms didnt just think the targaryens were nice guys, so lets be ruled by them. Aegon was called the conqueror for a reason, he conquered them, thats what made them bend the knee and nothing else. he destroyed their rule by conquest, just like Robert destoyed the targaryen rule and all their claim 300 years later.
We can argue about whether anyone other than a Targ can hold on to the throne till the cows come home, but going by the laws of the land, they lost their right to rule when Bobby B smashed their host at the Trident and marched on to Kings Landing.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
Series
But what if Rheagar had a prophetic dream like Dany has had, and saw he needed to die for Westeros to live?
That's not the law of the land either.
ADwD
Just because a lord isn't in his castle doesn't mean he isnt the lord of that land. Ramsay is going through a lot of trouble and risk with a fake Arya just to secure Winterfell. Viserys was king the second Jaime killed his dad.
series
Someone like Stannis who is all about the honorable and right thing to do probably won't fight the legitimate heirs, especially if/when he finds out the rebellion was started because of a misunderstanding between Robert, Lyanna, and Rheagar, and that the two kids don't have the Targaryen madness, and they're legitimately good rulers.
You'd rather he fought them instead of ally with them? He probably doesn't even think they're alive and he hasn't said anything about the rumors of the girl with the three headed dragon. Stannis has like 2 dudes left at this point. He'd die a hypocrite and Dany would have to fight the others by herself. OR, Stannis wins and he kills the kid who escaped Gregor Clegane and has been training all his life to be king, and the girl who woke dragons from STONE *HINT HINT* and freed thousands of slaves.
You'd rather he fought them instead of ally with them? He probably doesn't even think they're alive and he hasn't said anything about the rumors of the girl with the three headed dragon. Stannis has like 2 dudes left at this point. He'd die a hypocrite and Dany would have to fight the others by herself. OR, Stannis wins and he kills the kid who escaped Gregor Clegane and has been training all his life to be king, and the girl who woke dragons from STONE *HINT HINT* and freed thousands of slaves.
You're not getting it. Legally speaking, Stannis is the rightful heir of Bobby B and therefore the rightful king of Westeros. The Targ dynasty got dethroned and have no legal claim to the throne (the Right of Conquest).
Stannis is so hardcore about proper protocol being observed - his big break was him supporting his brother over the throne he was rebelling against - that he won't change his mind. Unless someone finds a legitimized child of Bobby B, Stannis will hold the thought that the throne belongs to him by rights and laws as the rightful heir of his brother. Nothing will change that.
Stannis is so hardcore about proper protocol being observed - his big break was him supporting his brother over the throne he was rebelling against - that he won't change his mind. Unless someone finds a legitimized child of Bobby B, Stannis will hold the thought that the throne belongs to him by rights and laws as the rightful heir of his brother. Nothing will change that.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
ADWD
Honestly, the Bolton plan so far makes zero sense. Roose gambled a lot to get the North, and he seems to be doing nothing to keep it. Ramsay is ruining everything, and is fostering hatred throughout the North and he's not doing anything about it. The only think that might give his plans merit is if he plans to have Ramsay killed as soon as he gets a son by "Arya".
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