Too much good stuff happens after the wedding though. Why make stuff up or stretch out the lead up to it especially since the Feast Kings Landing content is still reasonably strong? You dont need to save Joffreys death when you have other big moments for later in the season.
Joffrey's far, far more likely to die in the first 4 episodes of the series than he is in 4.09. They've only got to establish the Red Viper and Mace Tyrell before the Purple Wedding, whereas afterwards they have to deal with the trial, the Mountain vs. the Red Viper, Tywin's death, Jamie on the Kingsguard... way too much stuff.
This episode only further confirms the lack of AFfC/ADwD next year. Series
Other than Bran, which they could easily add to and delay (and will have too - insert coldhands), I doubt there will be much outside of ASoS at all. There will be no Kingsmoot it would seem.
and when they do eventually reveal the stoneheart thing, how will they explain it? Will they just have to explain Beric giving up his life for her through some clunky ass exposition or will they show it happen earlier in the season? I'm really wondering how they're gonna deal with that stuff
Exactly. Not that I like that thing, but it would definitely be better. However, can they really stretch out the last third of ASOS into a single season?
With Cat's actress having another job they could do that. Just like in AFFC, have stories about Stoneheart spread. Jamie hears about her. Brienne hears about her. Kings landing hears about her. Except unlike AFFC, the audience doesn't know who it is. Reveal her at the ed of S4, or better yet, reveal her in S5 when Brienne meets her.
Quite a good finale. No massive event, but it wrapped a few things up while also introducing new plotlines for next season. Also, Davos stole the show tonight. Just a great actor for the role; never really cared for the character in the books, but I really like how he's been handled here.
So, does Tyrion Killing his Father place nicely in the 9th episode? Or is it Mance's raid on the wall with the appearance of Stannis, leaving Tyrion's Triumph, Dany kicking out Jorah, and Stoneheart for the finale?
I mean, is there much for Stannis or Dany to do this upcoming season?
Quite a good finale. No massive event, but it wrapped a few things up while also introducing new plotlines for next season. Also, Davos stole the show tonight. Just a great actor for the role; never really cared for the character in the books, but I really like how he's been handled here.
The fact there was no big buildup to next season is the buildup, non book readers have no idea where the series can go with Robb gone. They're either rooting for Danny or the Lannisters, i feel that non book readers don't like Stannis enough.
Exactly. Not that I like that thing, but it would definitely be better. However, can they really stretch out the last third of ASOS into a single season?
One of my big concerns with the show going forward is how they've tweaked with the timing of certain events. Things like Jaime or Balon- the events in the books make sense because they all happen in a very certain timeline with certain people at certain places at certain times. The show is already starting to mess with that it seems.
That's the sort of thing that can snowball real quick if the writers aren't staying on top of that, since they can't just lean back on the books to make sense of certain scenarios now.
That's cause the show writers cannot make up their minds with how they want to portray Stannis. One second he's grammar nazi, letter of the law, dry wit, book Stannis and the next he's just Melisandre's lapdog.
Damn that was underwhelming. I mean no Cersei is bad mother scene, no Coldhand, No black gate, making Stennis a bitch-made asshole instead asshole who does what is his duty, and then ending with Dany being call mother scene. At least the John & Ygritte scene and Arya scene was enjoyable.
So, does Tyrion Killing his Father place nicely in the 9th episode? Or is it Mance's raid on the wall with the appearance of Stannis, leaving Tyrion's Triumph, Dany kicking out Jorah, and Stoneheart for the finale?
So, does Tyrion Killing his Father place nicely in the 9th episode? Or is it Mance's raid on the wall with the appearance of Stannis, leaving Tyrion's Triumph, Dany kicking out Jorah, and Stoneheart for the finale?
I mean, is there much for Stannis or Dany to do this upcoming season?
I am hoping that the S9 hook is Mountain Vs. Viper and Tyrion sentenced to death. I REALLY want the final shot in S4 to be Tyrion walking out of the privy, Tywin slumped over the toilet, Shae dead on the bed, and Tyrion just tossing the crossbow aside.
Well I have to concede big time on the cliffhanger of the season. Never been more certain and more wrong about something at the same time. I agree it will be better with more time, but I expected it nonetheless.
The ending we did get, though, I thought was really bad. The Mhysa scene, even done well, is really not a good season-ending scene IMO. Even worse, it came off as extremely cheesy to me. Just bad all around, honestly.
I really liked most of the rest of the episode.
- Happy with Bran telling the Rat Cook story and the obvious implications later
- Thought most of the Dragonstone stuff was good although the last scene was kind of messy
- Enjoyed Joffrey getting schooled, same with Roose/Ramsay stuff
- WTF is going on with Asha/Yara?
- Arya scene was excellent
- Jaime/Brienne being in King's Landing has major implications. But I think it could be interesting in a good way if done right.
ASOS
Now I understand the theory behind not showing Cat. But why would they skip Coldhands? It is an infinitely better ending scene than what we got.
Next season should be fantastic unless they shit it up with a bunch of invented Yara stuff. I am concerned that this episode contained almost zero hook/cliffhanger moving into next season, but on the other hand the non-readers seemed to enjoy the episode so maybe I'm wrong.
My biggest (possibly unfounded) concern is that with all the talk D&D did about the Red Wedding, that they simply don't have the same level of passion for the subsequent material and that from here on out will be a slow decline in quality. I absolutely hope not, that's just the fear running through my head as I watch that terrible final scene.
I am hoping that the S9 hook is Mountain Vs. Viper and Tyrion sentenced to death. I REALLY want the final shot in S4 to be Tyrion walking out of the privy, Tywin slumped over the toilet, Shae dead on the bed, and Tyrion just tossing the crossbow aside.
I am hoping that the S9 hook is Mountain Vs. Viper and Tyrion sentenced to death. I REALLY want the final shot in S4 to be Tyrion walking out of the privy, Tywin slumped over the toilet, Shae dead on the bed, and Tyrion just tossing the crossbow aside.
wasn't there a bit of time between the Viper/Mountain battle and Tyrion's escape/Revenge Tour?
Whatever the 9th will be, it'll be different from the other 9th episodes. 2 Shocking episodes of Stark Death, and one Gigantic battle centerpiece. Perhaps a 1 on 1 battle mixed with the battle on the Wall will be it.
My biggest (possibly unfounded) concern is that with all the talk D&D did about the Red Wedding, that they simply don't have the same level of passion for the subsequent material and that from here on out will be a slow decline in quality. I absolutely hope not, that's just the fear running through my head as I watch that terrible final scene.
That is absolutely the same impression I've got from reading/watching interviews with them too. They wanted to get to Ned's death and the RW. I don't really know how passionate they are about everything else. And that is sort of my concern should they ever get ahead of the books, since I feel like anytime they invent plotlines (Qarth) they haven't been very good.
How do you guys feel about the way they presented Jaime. Doesn't he come back with Joffrey dead and they have sex in the septim? How are they going to make that a better scene with it out of order?
Yeah. I'm not sure what Jaime does from here. Seems like a strange, non-reasoned change. Instead of showing a tad more bond building between Jaime and Brienne, now they have to make some shit up for Jaime to do in the mean time....
That was my only real, "why?" moment of the episode. I liked the ending scene quite a bit.
Quite a good finale. No massive event, but it wrapped a few things up while also introducing new plotlines for next season. Also, Davos stole the show tonight. Just a great actor for the role; never really cared for the character in the books, but I really like how he's been handled here.
Yep. Davos has easily become my favorite character in the show. Such an amazing actor.
Hodor's beard is too cultivated.
Dany's scene was handled well. Outside of the entire fair savior of the dark savages aspect. Ugh that final shot.
Yara's scene was great. Had me pumped.
Bran's scene with Sam was the first time two 'good' protagonists met up, wasn't it? It was a nice scene and I loved Sam saying fuck off to Bran's request. Tend to your son, son.
Reek's scene was great. That crazy fucking Bolton. Loved him saying that he wasn't a savage. Ha!
Stannis is as much of a dick as I remember him being in the books.
They handled Sansa very well in this episode. Just when she seemed to be warming up the hero of the universe she has her heart wrenched out from her. Who knows how they broke the news to her.
Briene! More Briene is always good.
No opinion on the Jaime scene.
Ayra was great. More than great. Wished they let her stab that prick a few more times. More to come, hopefully.
I really need to read ADWD and see what else is coming. AFFC was a powerful dissuading factor, though.
This episode only further confirms the lack of AFfC/ADwD next year. Series
Other than Bran, which they could easily add to and delay (and will have too - insert coldhands), I doubt there will be much outside of ASoS at all. There will be no Kingsmoot it would seem.
It confirms Yara's not taking part in the Kingsmoot, but they seem to be riffing off and expanding upon her ADWD material. Balon's almost certainly going to die at the beginning of next season, and the Kingsmoot can happen without Yara.
My biggest (possibly unfounded) concern is that with all the talk D&D did about the Red Wedding, that they simply don't have the same level of passion for the subsequent material and that from here on out will be a slow decline in quality. I absolutely hope not, that's just the fear running through my head as I watch that terrible final scene.
It confirms Yara's not taking part in the Kingsmoot, but they seem to be riffing off and expanding upon her ADWD material. Balon's almost certainly going to die at the beginning of next season, and the Kingsmoot can happen without Yara.
If they even have a Kingsmoot. Without Yara, they could just have Balon die and Euron take over. Casting all these Ironborn characters for one scene is probably too much.
That's cause the show writers cannot make up their minds with how they want to portray Stannis. One second he's grammar nazi, letter of the law, dry wit, book Stannis and the next he's just Melisandre's lapdog.
My main complaint about the show is how Stannis is portrayed. Sure he's a dick in the books, but he's a very particular type of dick that they haven't done a great job capturing. But I suppose (ASOS)
I didn't really warm up to Stannis until he showed up at the wall, so there might still be time. Still, so far I haven't been super impressed.
Okay episode, but I'm REALLY glad they showed some restraint.
Thoughts for S4:
- Arya and The Hound will be like Arya and Tywin; padded out, but they'll still play the whole antagonistic relationship really well.
- The Yara/Asha... not sure where they'll go with it, but it'll give some visibility to her character since she becomes increasingly more important.
- They really need to start deteriorating Tyrion and Shae's relationship. They had a good out with the Sansa/Tyrion marriage, but it was definitely undermined with the scene in this episode.
- Brienne'll be the new Davos next season, spend half of it in a cell then be freed by Jaime and given Oathkeeper.
- Hopefully Arriane'll be introduced with Oberyn.
- They need to recast Conan Stevens as The Mountain.
- The Battle of the Wall will be the big showpiece of the season
- And I just really hope that the last episode of the S4 is "as is" crazy as the last few chapters of ASoS are... It needs to be Tyrion/Shae/Tywin, Littlefinger/Lysa (and I will be absolutely devastated if the Sansa and the snow-Winterfell doesn't make it in) and reveal of Stoneheart.
Okay episode, but I'm REALLY glad they showed some restraint.
Thoughts for S4:
- Arya and The Hound will be like Arya and Tywin; padded out, but they'll still play the whole antagonistic relationship really well.
- The Yara/Asha... not sure where they'll go with it, but it'll give some visibility to her character since she becomes increasingly more important.
- They really need to start deteriorating Tyrion and Shae's relationship. They had a good out with the Sansa/Tyrion marriage, but it was definitely undermined with the scene in this episode.
- Brienne'll be the new Davos next season, spend half of it in a cell then be freed by Jaime and given Oathkeeper.
- Hopefully Arriane'll be introduced with Oberyn.
- They need to recast Conan Stevens as The Mountain.
- The Battle of the Wall will be the big showpiece of the season
- And I just really hope that the last episode of the S4 is "as is" crazy as the last few chapters of ASoS are... It needs to be Tyrion/Shae/Tywin, Littlefinger/Lysa (and I will be absolutely devastated if the Sansa and the snow-Winterfell doesn't make it in) and reveal of Stoneheart.
The more I think about it, the more I really dislike what they did with Stannis in that final scene. Which is a shame because everything else they did with Dragonstone this episode was pretty good. They really should have just played that scene like the book and end it with Davos reading the letter. As it stands here, Stannis is pretty much just Melisandre's bitch.
To say something positive, I liked what they did with Jon and Ygritte. That was pretty well done. I figured it might happen after he got away last time without an arrow.
Arya was pretty well done. Finally where she needs to be, if a bit abrupt. ASOS
Hopefully they, and I expect they will, expand on her and the Hound next season, rather than jumping straight into the fight with the Mountain's men.
The Theon/Iron Island stuff was pretty well done. Ramsay does love his letters. SERIES
Surprised we didn't get a dead Balon, and I wonder what they'll do with Yara's attempt to rescue Theon since it's obviously not going to work.
edit: And oh yeah, wasn't there supposed to be a Lysa scene this episode?
Okay episode, but I'm REALLY glad they showed some restraint.
Thoughts for S4:
- They really need to start deteriorating Tyrion and Shae's relationship. They had a good out with the Sansa/Tyrion marriage, but it was definitely undermined with the scene in this episode.
I feel like they have to be planning to switch this storyline up in some way--(SOS)
TV Shae outright stating she loves Sansa and giving the impression she doesn't really feel threatened by her, and Sansa's general trust in Shae, makes it really hard for me to envision this version of Shae selling out to Cersei and especially winding up in Tywin's bed. She doesn't have the same greed for shiny things Book Shae had. It's weird.
I feel like they have to be planning to switch this storyline up in some way--(SOS)
TV Shae outright stating she loves Sansa and giving the impression she doesn't really feel threatened by her, and Sansa's general trust in Shae, makes it really hard for me to envision this version of Shae selling out to Cersei and especially winding up in Tywin's bed. She doesn't have the same greed for shiny things Book Shae had. It's weird.
The fact that next season is looking so badass when AFFC is widely considered the weakest book definitely shows how GRRM pretty much failed when he split AFFC/ADWD. There's plenty of good stuff in there, but the filler drags it down so hard.
Edit: nvm, it's been so long that I can't even keep the books straight anymore. Although I guess there might be some bleed over between the second half of ASOS and AFFC.
I feel like they have to be planning to switch this storyline up in some way--(SOS)
TV Shae outright stating she loves Sansa and giving the impression she doesn't really feel threatened by her, and Sansa's general trust in Shae, makes it really hard for me to envision this version of Shae selling out to Cersei and especially winding up in Tywin's bed. She doesn't have the same greed for shiny things Book Shae had. It's weird.
Before tonight's episode, I could've bought that they would start to go downhill with Shae just being jealous of Tyrion and Sansa, but that scene really worked against that.
I feel like they have to be planning to switch this storyline up in some way--(SOS)
TV Shae outright stating she loves Sansa and giving the impression she doesn't really feel threatened by her, and Sansa's general trust in Shae, makes it really hard for me to envision this version of Shae selling out to Cersei and especially winding up in Tywin's bed. She doesn't have the same greed for shiny things Book Shae had. It's weird.
Must've been a lot of people watching tonight. HBOGo threw out the complete set of fuckups with their crap video player. Constant green shit, freezing, skipping forward several scenes, audio desync. They really need to replace that junk, though it's never been this bad before.
Anyway, fairly underwhelming episode. Highlights were Arya's kill and ADWD
the Rat Cook story, good to see HBO playing the long game
. The ending was of course terrible, and Ygritte shooting up Jon was incredibly dumb. There was no reason at all for that scene to be there and not when he escaped. ASOS
I know they want some meaningful goodbye dialogue considering what happens, but that could have easily been fit in to the prior scene. Just have Jon be told he needs to kill the guy a little distance away, have him whisper with Ygritte as they walk over and she shoots at him as he leaves
. The way they just plopped that in there seemed like a dream sequence.
I feel like they have to be planning to switch this storyline up in some way--(SOS)
TV Shae outright stating she loves Sansa and giving the impression she doesn't really feel threatened by her, and Sansa's general trust in Shae, makes it really hard for me to envision this version of Shae selling out to Cersei and especially winding up in Tywin's bed. She doesn't have the same greed for shiny things Book Shae had. It's weird.
Well they could have her being angry at Tyrion for involving Sansa in his scheme to kill Joffrey or have Tywin order Shae to be kill and use that as extra motivation for Tyrion
Second half of the episode was a little slow, but overall I liked it. Tywin was a boss as usual, but Ramsey and Sam stole show. That sausage scene and the Greyjoy scene, so uncomfortable.
If they were going to do the return of Jaime/Brienne to King's Landing this season, they should have gotten the ASOS
Cersei/Loras stuff out of the way to actually give it some weight.
My biggest disappointment this season, and I've brought this up before, is ASOS
Melisandra never explained the dichotomy of her religion to Davos/the viewers. The idea that the Lord of Light is locked in an eternal struggle with the Lord of Darkness is kind of important to the overall narrative and her somewhat ambiguous motivations. The only reason she's helping Stannis is because of the prophecy of Azor Ahai. The White Walkers having a boss is a frightening idea, even if we don't know what it is/what it wants.
The fact there was no big buildup to next season is the buildup, non book readers have no idea where the series can go with Robb gone. They're either rooting for Danny or the Lannisters, i feel that non book readers don't like Stannis enough.
Before tonight's episode, I could've bought that they would start to go downhill with Shae just being jealous of Tyrion and Sansa, but that scene really worked against that.
I'm doubting that they can pull off Tyrion's murder of Shae while keeping him a sympathetic character. Even in the books it was a pretty terrible thing and book Shae was a whore without any real genuine relationship with Tyrion. It'll be interesting to see how it will clash with the TV show's whitewashed Tyrion.
Martin, for one, isn’t worried. The way the author sees it, producers have plenty of material to keep Thrones rolling. “I think the odds against that happening are very long,” Martin says when asked about the show catching up to his novels. “I still have a lead of several gigantic books. If they include everything in the books, I don’t think they’re going to catch up with me. If they do, we’ll have some interesting discussions.”
Martin points to Starz’ Spartacus, which interrupted its main storyline with a prequel season. As it so happens, Martin has discussed with HBO the possibility of developing a series based on his Hedge Knight books, which are prequels to Ice and Fire.
