Yeah, my complaints with Jon go back to last season mostly with Halfhand and how he barely spent any time with him. This season has been fine, relatively speaking.
The actual events they're showing have been fine, its just the way in which they're choosing to portray them could be better, Sam specifically. I just always pictured a greater sense of urgency with Sam and the rest of the NW fleeing. They're just a ragtag group at this point thats struggling to make it back to the Wall, with people getting picked off and others just dying from the cold. And then Sam, Grenn and another NW guy fall behind and get caught by an Other, leading to the whole Sam the Slayer thing. I'm guessing they're just moving that moment to later, but the whole retreat from the Fist feels like they're just mildly uncomfortable from the cold, not running for their lives with the Wights and Others picking off people and others dying from the elements.
I feel like the brunt of your problems would have been solved if there was just a heavier overcast on the day of the shooting.
The Sam story is going about how I envisioned. I'm assuming thought that the killing of the Other will have to happen relatively soon though. I can't recall, did Sam get the dragonglass dagger last season?
I never got on the train with the first season, so I did a marathon watch of season 1 right before season 2 started.
After season 2 I read all the books, actually just finished reading ADWD which I tried to stretch out as long as I could.
Now I have a long wait before winter actually get's here.
Loved the Reeds, Jamie - Brienne fight and ending was nicely done too.
Jeoff's scenes were great. Queen of Thorns was good too but was surprised by Margaery's presence at the table.
Tyrion - Shae scene was useless. Cat - Rob's wifey scene could have been skipped, but it was great to hear some remorse for how she felt about Jon Snow.
Still going through setup stages, would be nice to see some action next episode!
Be careful about referring to Arya living past ASoS/S3, everyone! The show MAY pull the same fake out move with Arya that the book did. you don't want non-readers to be aware that she's still alive. And incidentally, I hope the show does do it, because the book got me hook line and sinker in thinking she was yet another RW casualty.
I've loved the last 2 episodes. I don't understand the complaints at all. Not every episode needs to end on a cliffhanger. I'm also loving what they're doing with Margaery. She is playing Joffrey like a fiddle.
Can someone help me out, my memory is fading. What happened to Theon in the books at this stage?
The Sam story is going about how I envisioned. I'm assuming thought that the killing of the Other will have to happen relatively soon though. I can't recall, did Sam get the dragonglass dagger last season?
I've loved the last 2 episodes. I don't understand the complaints at all. Not every episode needs to end on a cliffhanger. I'm also loving what they're doing with Margaery. She is playing Joffrey like a fiddle.
Can someone help me out, my memory is fading. What happened to Theon in the books at this stage?
Be careful about referring to Arya living past ASoS/S3, everyone! The show MAY pull the same fake out move with Arya that the book did. you don't want non-readers to be aware that she's still alive. And incidentally, I hope the show does do it, because the book got me hook line and sinker in thinking she was yet another RW casualty.
Sorry about that, I didn't even remember her fake death at the RW. In fact, I don't even remember what happens to her that the reader might think she's dead.
We actually don't see Theon in the books after ACOK ( which would be S2 ) until he appears again in ADWD, as Reek. The show pretty much shows us the torture of Theon the books left out.
I've loved the last 2 episodes. I don't understand the complaints at all. Not every episode needs to end on a cliffhanger. I'm also loving what they're doing with Margaery. She is playing Joffrey like a fiddle.
Can someone help me out, my memory is fading. What happened to Theon in the books at this stage?
isn't in the third at all and isn't given a POV again until ADWD, but since people tend to lump AFFC and ADWD together, he is considered to be absent for 1 book. They are showing things that were talked about and were recollected by Theon during his Reek phase. On the show we are getting to see it... although it is probably going to be modified and accelerated heavily.
isn't in the third at all and isn't given a POV again until ADWD, but since people tend to lump AFFC and ADWD together, he is considered to be absent for 1 book. They are showing things that were talked about and were recollected by Theon during his Reek phase. On the show we are getting to see it... although it is probably going to be modified and accelerated heavily.
We actually do know in ASoS that Theon is alive and captured by Ramsay though. Right before the RW, Ramsay sends a piece of Theon's skin to Robb and Robb elects to keep Theon prisoner until they can take back the North from the rest of the Greyjoys.
Hmmm... I'm wondering if they'll tie that in with how they're acting as if Bran and Rickon might be alive and not letting Cat and Robb know they're dead. I'm just wondering how much they end up foreshadowing the RW and the Bolton's role. The books certainly foreshadow it quite a bit but the TV show seems to be pretty heavy handed with their foreshadowing thus far, like with the dragon eggs back in season 1.
Be careful about referring to Arya living past ASoS/S3, everyone! The show MAY pull the same fake out move with Arya that the book did. you don't want non-readers to be aware that she's still alive. And incidentally, I hope the show does do it, because the book got me hook line and sinker in thinking she was yet another RW casualty.
Sorry about that, I didn't even remember her fake death at the RW. In fact, I don't even remember what happens to her that the reader might think she's dead.
Arya and the Hound get to the Twins just as the Northern army is about to be slaughtered and she runs away from the Hound to try to get to her family. The Hound rides her down and hits her in the head with the flat of his axe, knocking her out. I didn't believe he killed her for a second because she still had value to him as a prisoner.
Was the Tyrion scene really unnecessary, though? I mean, I thought it was very badly acted by Shae's actress, but I feel the scene was setting up [ASOS]
Shae's betrayal of Tyrion (and Sansa). Shae was getting jealous of Tyrion's previous relations and could possibly be suspicious of him being with others at the moment (though this part might not actually mean much).
I think the most important part was Shae getting jealous of Tyrion complimenting Sansa's beauty. And who is Tyrion marrying in a few episodes? If she's jealous NOW, she might be furious then. Since she now knows Tyrion finds Sansa attractive, she might believe he set up the marriage himself, to get closer to Sansa, which would ultimately cause a rift in their relationship. On top of that, Shae might feel resentment and jealousy towards Sansa for being Tyrion's wife.
They haven't explained it, but last season Theon and his men were trapped in the castle by Ramsey's army and his men knocked him out to try and save themselves.
In the most recent episode Roose told Rob that he received word from his bastard and that 'the Ironborn had all escaped and torched the castle before he reached Winterfell'. Of course, we know that isn't true since the Ironborn were already trapped in the castle at the end of last season and we see Theon imprisoned and being tortured.
I think it is safe to assume that his men turned him over and then were all killed, unless you'd like to assume that Ramsey honored his offer to them.
Of course, I'm basing that assumption on Ramsey's character/actions in the book. For all we know Ramsey did honor the agreement in the show (unlikely) but I think one way or another, we can count Theon's crew as out of the action one way or another.
Sorry about that, I didn't even remember her fake death at the RW. In fact, I don't even remember what happens to her that the reader might think she's dead.
Haven't watched last night's episode yet, but the first episode seemed like they got a healthy budget boost from last season. More CG, armies looking bigger, more scenes in bigger sets/locations and less in tiny rooms.
Haven't watched last night's episode yet, but the first episode seemed like they got a healthy budget boost from last season. More CG, armies looking bigger, more scenes in bigger sets/locations and less in tiny rooms.
That scene did a pretty good job showing that Cat feels a lot of guilt over what happens to her family, something you get on the books by reading her thoughts, which is impossible to copy and paste to a TV show.
Honestly you sound like you should wait for the ASOIF page by page adaption, Game of Thrones is clearly not going to do it for you.
Pure crock. I like many adapted scenes, namely those with Theon. But the way they've manged Catelyn (and Robb, and Jon Snow) is inexcusable. Robb didn't scorn his mother for "denying the Karstarks their vengeance", he supported her and [ASoS]
even punished Lord Karstark for attempting said vengeance on Jaime
. Catelyn didn't feel guilt about Jon Snow at all, for reasons others already explained. She did feel the burden of her family's tragedy, but it has nothing to do with Jon Snow, it's a stupid motive the fanfic writers made up because they're bad writers.
Enough with all the hand-waving about their shitty decisions with "it's an adaptation!!11" already. Sometimes they adapt it intelligently, sometimes they don't. Robb/Talisa, Catelyn in general, Jon/Qhorin Halfhand, S2 Daenerys, Arya in general, Shae, Ros, they've blundered time and time again with those storylines while they could have easily, without time, budget or visual format restrictions, been more faithful AND been better.
Very rarely, they improve on the books. Ned screaming "Baelor!" at Yoren where Arya was, was a nice touch. Theon attempting to defy his father (and being slapped for it) and calling Balon on his bullshit was great. The burning of Robb's letter was a powerful scene. The execution of Ser Rodrik was poignant and well played.
But removing the sense of urgency from the White Walkers's attack on the Fist? Lame. Replacing Jon's relationship with Qhorin with stupid sex jokes with Ygritte and removing the tragedy of Jon having to kill his friend? Uber-lame. Reducing Robb to a childish little bitch and fostering the blame of his blunders on Catelyn? Stupid. Removing every smart advice Catelyn offers (and making them be Robb's ideas instead) and reducing her to a whining useless hag? Infuriating. Stripping Arya of all her agency? Downright insulting.
It seems like they're laying the groundwork for the beginnings of Shae's betrayal, with her hint of jealousy in regards to Tyrion finding Sansa attractive. With all the hand wringing about how Shae would be handled, I'd think a lot of you concerned readers would be pleased with the scene.
Again: are you joking? The Shae scenes are beyond stupid. ASoS
They've whitewashed Tyrion's character and made him more sympathetic and less wretched. But if Shae actually likes him and cares for him and Sansa, the whole arc where she betrays him for gold later and humiliates him in court and he ends up murdering her is thrown right out of the window. Book-Shae doesn't give a crap if Tyrion marries Sansa (she also doesn't give a crap about Sansa, period). She's after gold and luxuries only. So okay, TV-Shae is now more sympathetic and cares about Sansa and Tyrion. Yet Tyrion is whitewashed. Which means that his murder of Shae will come out of nowhere because we'll see him, a non-grey good guy, murdering a whore with a heart of gold* who's just trying to protect a young girl and who is trying to fight her way out of her situation. Oh, but she'll betray Tyrion at the trial cause she's jealous of his marriage to Sansa? Urgh, that'd be just terrible. Not to mention, incriminating Tyrion at the trial would also incriminate Sansa (since no one would believe "the wife didn't know", especially since she had motive against Joffrey), yet she's protective of Sansa...? I'm really dreading to see where they're going with this clusterfuck. I wish I could say I trust the writers to make it all make sense in the end, but I don't because they've just screwed up too many times.
*Unless of course... Tyrion doesn't kill Shae, and Tywin or even Joffrey (and his shiny new crossbow) does. I mean hey, they've given Cersei's murders of the bastards to Joffrey too, why not this too? -_-
Because it's a song glorifying the Lannisters, and the BwB hates them...
Also, I realize this is a "purist nitpick" but am I the only one who thought that, when Arya asked Thoros who they were fighting for, Thoros shouldn't have answered "the Brotherhood" but instead, "our true king, Robert Baratheon"? >_>
Complete and utter bollocks. Catelyn has always, always been about her FAMILY first, since day one. Jesus where is this bullshit coming from? Even with the show diminishing her character so badly, even in the show we see it's about her family first and foremost. WTF...
They haven't explained it, but last season Theon and his men were trapped in the castle by Ramsey's army and his men knocked him out to try and save themselves.
In the most recent episode Roose told Rob that he received word from his bastard and that 'the Ironborn had all escaped and torched the castle before he reached Winterfell'. Of course, we know that isn't true since the Ironborn were already trapped in the castle at the end of last season and we see Theon imprisoned and being tortured.
I think it is safe to assume that his men turned him over and then were all killed, unless you'd like to assume that Ramsey honored his offer to them.
Of course, I'm basing that assumption on Ramsey's character/actions in the book. For all we know Ramsey did honor the agreement in the show (unlikely) but I think one way or another, we can count Theon's crew as out of the action one way or another.
Again: are you joking? The Shae scenes are beyond stupid. ASoS
They've whitewashed Tyrion's character and made him more sympathetic and less wretched. But if Shae actually likes him and cares for him and Sansa, the whole arc where she betrays him for gold later and humiliates him in court and he ends up murdering her is thrown right out of the window. Book-Shae doesn't give a crap if Tyrion marries Sansa (she also doesn't give a crap about Sansa, period). She's after gold and luxuries only. So okay, TV-Shae is now more sympathetic and cares about Sansa and Tyrion. Yet Tyrion is whitewashed. Which means that his murder of Shae will come out of nowhere because we'll see him, a non-grey good guy, murdering a whore with a heart of gold* who's just trying to protect a young girl and who is trying to fight her way out of her situation. Oh, but she'll betray Tyrion at the trial cause she's jealous of his marriage to Sansa? Urgh, that'd be just terrible. Not to mention, incriminating Tyrion at the trial would also incriminate Sansa (since no one would believe "the wife didn't know", especially since she had motive against Joffrey), yet she's protective of Sansa...? I'm really dreading to see where they're going with this clusterfuck. I wish I could say I trust the writers to make it all make sense in the end, but I don't because they've just screwed up too many times.
*Unless of course... Tyrion doesn't kill Shae, and Tywin or even Joffrey (and his shiny new crossbow) does. I mean hey, they've given Cersei's murders of the bastards to Joffrey too, why not this too? -_-
You're not making sense. You acknowledge that Shae on the show is different than Shae from the book. If you're capable of doing that, I don't know why you would think my theory was a joke.
ASOS
The concern trolling over Shae centers around the idea that a Shae who genuinely cares about Tyrion or Sansa wouldn't be capable of betraying them over gold and jewels. With this episode's scene, the show seems to be setting up the idea that the seeds of Shae's betrayal are planted by jealousy over Tyrion and Sansa's marriage, which would make perfect sense.
Add in Tyrion's complete fall from power and Sansa's escape from King's Landing after Joffrey's death, and the subsequent collapse of Shae's support systems from these events, and the complaints about how Shae's betrayal will come across feel even more pointless.
I really don't get what the problem is here. All the show is doing is making Shae's motivations less black and white, and inserting moral ambiguity into the scenario. For people who love to praise ASoIaF for its ample use of the "gray zone", it's baffling that anyone would be so unnerved by all of this. These changes would do nothing but strengthen the story.
And this is the first time I've heard complaints of "white washing" Tyrion. Is Dinklage just too charismatic for you?
Morrigan Targaryen said:
Because it's a song glorifying the Lannisters, and the BwB hates them...
I always got the impression that the Brotherhood were against ALL who would harm the small folk, wolf or lion. Regardless, one of them lazily singing "The Rains of Castamere" hardly feels out of character.
You're getting awfully close to leading them to conclusions that the show hasn't revealed yet though. I would just avoid posting over there personally even if you think you aren't spoiling anything.
The more I watch the series the less I'm getting the ASOIAF feeling. The shows does an alright job of telling the story, but as the story goes on and gets more and more complex the less atmosphere of the book it conveys imo. ASOIAF has a heavy, brooding atmosphere, but I'm not feeling that currently.
The first season was still good at that, but already in the second season you could feel the lack of atmosphere. And now in the third season it's even less. It's just cutting from scene to scene, trying to get as many people in one episode and somehow continuing with the story.
someone please refresh my memory. tyrion was wretched in the books? I was really surprised he was capable of strangling someone when he did that to shae
They haven't explained it, but last season Theon and his men were trapped in the castle by Ramsey's army and his men knocked him out to try and save themselves.
In the most recent episode Roose told Rob that he received word from his bastard and that 'the Ironborn had all escaped and torched the castle before he reached Winterfell'. Of course, we know that isn't true since the Ironborn were already trapped in the castle at the end of last season and we see Theon imprisoned and being tortured.
I think it is safe to assume that his men turned him over and then were all killed, unless you'd like to assume that Ramsey honored his offer to them.
Of course, I'm basing that assumption on Ramsey's character/actions in the book. For all we know Ramsey did honor the agreement in the show (unlikely) but I think one way or another, we can count Theon's crew as out of the action one way or another.
Eh, I was just wondering what the Ironborn's plan was for leaving Winterfell after they knocked out Theon. They just say "Lets go home" at the end of season 2 but I don't think they ever imply that they're either going to hand over Theon to Ramsay outside the gate or that they were simply taking Theon back to the Iron Islands with them.
They were basically surrounded so what was their plan? Handing Theon over in exchange for passage? I doubt that would work. Some secret passage? Maybe. I'm going to guess that eventually their fate will be revealed- maybe once Ramsay reveals himself, he'll reveal that he butchered all of the Ironborn too.
Yeah, but its probably best to just avoid posting in that thread if you've read the books, lest you even inadvertently let informed speculation slide into a post. Seems like you were maybe leading them to conclusions the show hasn't really gotten into at all yet.
The more I watch the series the less I'm getting the ASOIAF feeling. The shows does an alright job of telling the story, but as the story goes on and gets more and more complex the less atmosphere of the book it conveys imo. ASOIAF has a heavy, brooding atmosphere, but I'm not feeling that currently.
The first season was still good at that, but already in the second season you could feel the lack of atmosphere. And now in the third season it's even less. It's just cutting from scene to scene, trying to get as many people in one episode and somehow continuing with the story.
I felt like season 1 had a great tense of tone and tension. Yes, a lot of it was lost in season 2, but season 3 has just started, and it took a little while for it to get started in season 1, too.
Part of the problem is that they can't foreshadow ANYTHING because they have to know via the first episode of each season that they're going to be renewed for another season.
Which is stupid, this is ASOIAF, everyone should by know see how profitable of a venture this is.
It's like saying "well we don't know if they'll want to make another harry potter movie..." ITS HARRY POTTER
Eh, I was just wondering what the Ironborn's plan was for leaving Winterfell after they knocked out Theon. They just say "Lets go home" at the end of season 2 but I don't think they ever imply that they're either going to hand over Theon to Ramsay outside the gate or that they were simply taking Theon back to the Iron Islands with them.
They were basically surrounded so what was their plan? Handing Theon over in exchange for passage? I doubt that would work. Some secret passage? Maybe. I'm going to guess that eventually their fate will be revealed- maybe once Ramsay reveals himself, he'll reveal that he butchered all of the Ironborn too.
The Bastard of Bolton we're talking about though. Scratch that, these are the Bolton's we're talking about. I don't think they'd care, Ramsay wouldn't at least.
I mean, we already know he left out what happened to Theon, when Robb wanted him alive.
I realize the show isn't the book, but in this regard...the idea that Catelyn feels any guilt or shame in regard to how she treated Jon is ridiculous to me. She has always viewed him as a threat to her children, I can't imagine her ever wanting to have him legitimized, even briefly. Nor can I imagine her feeling guilty about hating him. She above all else wants to protect her children, and part of that involves keeping Jon at a distance.
Fair enough. I thought that that scene did a good job of making her seem (ASOS)
more three dimensional and human, without totally neutering her history with Jon. I don't really feel like either Cat or Robb (or Talisa) are very personable at this point, which is a mistake given what's coming up for them down the road. I welcome any attempt the writers make to humanize or endear us to those characters before the RW.
Also, I just found out that Jennifer Ehle was originally cast as Catelyn in the pilot but had to drop out due to conflicting schedules. Damn. I think she would have made for a much better Catelyn.
I concur. I disliked season 2 pretty thoroughly; but maybe it's because I can't remember every detail of the later novels [in fact I'm pretty sure that's the reason, suddenly it seems almost ludicrous to get so annoyed over such minute details and I find myself able to just enjoy watching the story fold out merely knowing the major plot points], or maybe it's the improved production values but I've enjoyed both episodes so far this season.
You're not making sense. You acknowledge that Shae on the show is different than Shae from the book. If you're capable of doing that, I don't know why you would think my theory was a joke.
Let me put it this way. In the book, you have a morally grey Tyrion (tries to do good, but isn't quite Ned Stark and will certainly cheat, lie and murder to climnb up the ladder) and a morally grey Shae (not a monster, but a selfish and manipulative gold digger who doesn't care about anything except her luxuries and who has no qualms about humiliating Tyrion at his trial). When everything crumbles down, their actions make sense; Shae wants to keep her gold and jewels, and is probably terrified of Cersei and Tywin, so she betrays Tyrion to Cersei and fucks Tywin (the hypocrite) to keep her status and possibly her life. When confronted by Tyrion, she tries to manipulate him by playing up the scared part, but she just goes a wee bit too far and Tyrion sees through her. That she's in Tywin's bed at the time doesn't help. Tyrion, by now a defeated, broken and humiliated man, kills her in a rage.
Now let's look at the TV show. Tyrion is hardly grey anymore. Shae is a very different character indeed, but in more sense than one now. Initially she was still just a gold digging whore like in the book, but she had different origins (foreign and highborn), and she was sassy and kinda bitchy. Those were the differences with book-Shae, who had lowborn origins and who acted all sweet and charming (as part of her job). Now, though, they've made her all tough (the knife "no one is raping me!" in Blackwater), fiercely protective of Sansa, contemptuous of rapists (book-Shae rolled her eyes at the suffering of a woman who was gang-raped, "all they did was fuck her"). It's unclear if she genuinely likes Tyrion or is just pretending as part of her job, but all indications show it's the former, especially with considering all the rest. So, she's more likeable.
Yet somehow, we're to expect good-guy Tyrion will end up murdering a woman who is protective of Sansa (who will become his wife)? Unless they throw in some weird twist, I just don't see that happening. You suggested the jealousy angle, but that was just bad writing. It's not remotely believable that Shae, even TV-Shae, would react wildly to Tyrion calling a pretty lady pretty and be offended that he's "such a perv" (FFS, she's an experienced whore!). It was completely anachronistic and out of character (even for TV-Shae). But even if we go with this, and Shae is jealous of Tyrion's wedding and physical attraction to Sansa, why would she betray him at the trial when it'd also incriminate Sansa, whom she's protective of?
I just think this new story is a mess, badly written, badly acted, and most of all, unnecessary, as there were no time or budget restrictions there and they could simply have kept Shae and her story as she was from the book. They tried to improve upon the book, and once again, they failed miserably.
*massive eye-rolling* And you call ME a troll? Yeah, I'm saying that strictly because of Dinklage.... urgh. -_-
Or did you already forget how they removed [AGoT]
his active participation in Tysha's gang-rape
? How about [ACoK]
the kidnapping, and threats to, Tommen? Symon Silvertongue's murder? (Symon was cut completely, of course, but there was nothing equivalent to replace it to show how ruthless Tyrion can be)
Honestly, most grey characters have been whitewashed. Cersei has been whitewashed a lot. Even Tywin, being all kindly to Arya. Arya herself has been dumbed down more than whitewashed. I think Tyrion has been whitewashed more because he's a fan favourite and they want TV viewers to keep liking him.
I always got the impression that the Brotherhood were against ALL who would harm the small folk, wolf or lion. Regardless, one of them lazily singing "The Rains of Castamere" hardly feels out of character.
someone please refresh my memory. tyrion was wretched in the books? I was really surprised he was capable of strangling someone when he did that to shae
You want to be refreshed of a memory of Tyrion being wretched, then you follow that up with one of his most wretched moment?
Book-Tyrion was insecure because he was a dwarf, ugly and clumsy-footed. He was clever and witty, but he was also very vulnerable and insecure about women not desiring him. His relationship with Shae is very much a highlight of that; deep down he knows she's just a whore doing her job, but he still craves the pretense that she's into him.
I love Tyrion and he's one of my favourite, but let's not kid ourselves. Book-Tyrion has a pathetic side to him, as well as a dark and ruthless side, which made him all the more compelling, and while I still enjoy TV-Tyrion and Dinklage is superb, I find it a bit of a shame that they've just made him "the cool guy". I'm hoping he starts turning to the dark side soon, but I just don't see that happening. At this rate, [ASoS]
I expect he won't even be the one who kills Shae in S4, though I do hope I'm horribly wrong.
That speech by Catelyn about her sin being that she was unable to love Jon and that caused everything just makes absolutely zero sense to me from any perspective. I literally have no idea how to even interpret this addition/change. Catelyn never had that remorse whatsoever, never even hinted at in the book or in the show. She's been nothing but crude to him, when did any expression of guilt ever treat to her over Jon? Ever even been hinted at? Am I missing some element here? It doesn't even make sense in the context of the plot itself, and Catelyn has never struck me as someone so over-the-top religious that she'd feel like God was punishing her for not loving Jon enough.
I dunno. The episode was decent (Lady Olenna is fucking perfect), but this is the change that has perplexed me most other than Arya's story bastardization (which I can see continues to be bastardized; now Arya is once again a dumbass bitch incapable of using a sword in any effective manner?).
I know she makes a lot of mistakes, but she also goes through a lot of hardships and you really feel the process of her becoming hardened. She makes a lot of tough choices, not all of them good, and is constantly fighting to take control of her destiny. She also gets her hands dirty a lot more, has to deal with starvation, more hiding, etc. Her anger and desire to kill grow constantly. You get the feeling of a constant HONING of her character.
The show version is pretty much a walk in the park. She just bumbles along, letting the wind take her pretty much wherever, learns nothing along the way, and really doesn't change at all. She's still extremely innocent. In this last episode you could take the character who was fighting the butcher's boy in Season 1, place her in the inn with Thoros, and pretty much nothing would be different about it.
