ValiantInstance
Member
Can someone just duct tape this man's mouth shut already. He's completely lost in the sauce.
Astray
Member
I mean the issue with GTA6 is they're not producing console units, there's a possibility that the GTA6 surge eats up the remaining stock, but then what's next?
How do you take advantage of a mega game when you don't push units into the market?
Darkness_Arises
Member
It's an emotionally unstable fanboy who is taking the fact that an xbox CEO showed in a Square Enix show too seriously. He's not really crazy about Phil Spencer. He'd throw Phil under the bus just like Don if it came to it. Phil has nothing to worry about.
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Lol....
I don't know if you're aware of the global economic and social situation and its impact on the stock market.....
The umpteenth leak trying to create an image of MS is falling, and it's doing so because of Xbox
#Only on neogaf
Apple stock is up 16 percent in the last year.
Google is down less than a percent in the last year.
Nvidia is up 24 percent in the last year.
Sony is up 43 percent in the last year.
Nintendo is up 43 percent as well.
Microsoft's performance hasn't been where it needs to be. That's not ALL on Xbox, but Xbox certainly isn't contributing towards a positive market performance for Microsoft and it looks like it is only getting worse, which is not the situation you want to be in after spending 100 billion dollars investing in the growth of your gaming division... Money they spent on Xbox probably should have gone in to shoring up Azure and Windows and probably AI. I know you don't like to hear it but Microsoft's investment in gaming has been misadventure. And you can tell that by Phil Spencer's emails, and by the change in posture and strategy of Xbox over the last year.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Phil's just taking it quarter by quarter at this point. I'm somewhat surprised he is still there, but I think Microsoft is in a bind in terms of trying to oust him.
Right now he's paid well enough to keep implementing Nadella's vision of Xbox post Zenimax and ABK deals, but at some point the board is going to want a head. The problem is once you fire Spencer, you basically have to admit things aren't going well for Xbox despite just spending 100 billion on gaming. It's a tough situation to be in for all parties basically.
I think that's a big reason why you don't see Phil doing a lot of media these days and why he is off social media for the most part and why Microsoft is canceling things like FanFest.
Phil is asking himself what can he do to keep his job long enough to get to the next annual bonus and what KPIs does he need to get those bonuses. The other shoe is going to drop, especially the next time they reveal any hardware plans and Xbox fans realize that they're being played even more than they are now.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Guys, I found Chorizo Picozo´s YT channel.
Them thinking GamePass isn't for "everybody" is a very new development (publicly).
Mownoc
Member
Phil Spencer 1.5 years ago saying that if Gamepass doesn't grow more off consoles (in response to a MS chart that had 50m gamepass subscribers on PC+Cloud by 2030, 60m on console) that MS would leave the gaming industry: https://www.gamepressure.com/newsro...-game-industry-if-game-pass-doesnt-gro/z45fcf
Now it's not for everybody and not a bad thing if people don't subscribe. Just over a year ago the entirety of Xbox apparently hinged on massive subscriber growth lol.
Now it's not for everybody and not a bad thing if people don't subscribe. Just over a year ago the entirety of Xbox apparently hinged on massive subscriber growth lol.
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Edit: To add clarity, he means the period covering July 2026 to June 2027, which we're fast approaching. Just over a year out from when Microsoft will probably take a massive step back in the gaming space.
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Astray
Member
I think the plan is to turn the division profitable, then announce it in a way that implies it was always this way without saying it outright and getting caught lying.
This is a very hard task when Xbox as an ecosystem is slowly turning into a more and more of a cost center.
It's also very clear to me why they cancelled the fanfest.. The Showcase is happening days after Switch 2 is launched. They will %100 be showcasing day 1 titles for it and PS5.
They simply didn't understand their existing and prospective consumers well enough. I went into this before HERE, but Gamepass is a spectacular misfire in terms of value proposition design. They will be citing it in business books, believe me.
Lol. Re-reading that article, this made me chuckle
Most of our customers will be outside of our own hardware, I hope, sooner than 2030. I would say that by 2026-2027 fiscal year we should be in that position, otherwise we would have to make a different business decision."
Jesus, I get what he was trying to say here, but still, big faith in their own ecosystem...
In particular that projection for cloud seems insane to me, but could be wrong. Not even sure if there are GP split numbers around.
That said, as the article suggests could also have been lowball playing victim to get the AB deal.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
At the end of the day, I think they're going to essentially become what ABK was before as if ABK had bought Zenimax and purchased Microsoft's gaming IP.
Maybe they even drop the Xbox brand name altogether and just operate Microsoft Gaming as Activision Blizzard King, but they'll release PC, PS5, and Switch 2 games. And I think they maybe give up streaming or maybe they continue, kind of 50/50 proposition.
If the Xbox brand continues it'll be in the form of gaming PCs sold for profit to keep the ecosystem alive for those willing to pay a premium to keep it, but that's where we're going. There might be an Xbox handheld PC too, but it's also going to be sold at a premium if it manifests at all.
Outside chance Microsoft sells ABK and Zenimax at some point along with Microsoft Game Studios.
Thank you for confirming that your understanding of the market is zero and demonstrating once again that all your analytical skills are based to interpreting based on the hatred you harbor toward a brand.
Imagine saying that the second-highest-valued company in the world (almost on par with the first) and one with the best future prospects is having problems, and that these problems are due to a division that doesn't even represent 11% of the total.
#Only on neogaf
Laptop1991
Member
Better try making great games then Phil if you want to sell games again now instead of GP, which you said you didn't need to make lol.
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WhiteWaterM00se
Member
I think a couple of things.
First, MS wants to see return on investment on the almost $100B MS has spent in gaming acquisitions. Get those games everywhere and get them for sale.
Second, MS will be the the cloud gaming platform going forward, so 10 years from now, MS has a huge first mover advantage.
Third, I do think MS has been good for Bethesda and Obsidian. They will farm out remakes, and have different studios assist them in development.
Lastly, I think Philber still has a job, because he has to complete the final step. Then he will retire.
The FINAL STEP? MS ACQUIRES Valve. Then, Steam/MS Gaming is incorporated into the next windows and ultimately….PC gamers have to PAY FOR ONLINE gaming.
I know some of you are screaming. Saying this will never happen. But common, pc has gotten away with something for decades that no one else has. MS will be able to transition over many of the Steam users to paying for online, and MS would have a monopoly on online gaming. Monthly subscriptions.
First, MS wants to see return on investment on the almost $100B MS has spent in gaming acquisitions. Get those games everywhere and get them for sale.
Second, MS will be the the cloud gaming platform going forward, so 10 years from now, MS has a huge first mover advantage.
Third, I do think MS has been good for Bethesda and Obsidian. They will farm out remakes, and have different studios assist them in development.
Lastly, I think Philber still has a job, because he has to complete the final step. Then he will retire.
The FINAL STEP? MS ACQUIRES Valve. Then, Steam/MS Gaming is incorporated into the next windows and ultimately….PC gamers have to PAY FOR ONLINE gaming.
I know some of you are screaming. Saying this will never happen. But common, pc has gotten away with something for decades that no one else has. MS will be able to transition over many of the Steam users to paying for online, and MS would have a monopoly on online gaming. Monthly subscriptions.
DrFigs
Member
This is incorrect btw. Sony has had cloud gaming since 2014. And they already released their cloud gaming console, the ps portal.
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Team Andromeda
Member
He's giving people a choice to
Why have people like you got to make such a big deal out of it?
Team Andromeda
Member
That isn't what he saying. He's simply saying that he doesn't really mind if people subscribe to Game Pass or buy a game it's money for Xbox
Going forward buying a game will no doubt be digital only, ready to piss people like you off.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
You just keep cooking 
goat spencer
goat spencer
GHG
Gold Member
Thanks for the laugh.
Astray
Member
Xbox brand won't be dropped for a while imo, they're going to keep it alive and focus more on competing with Valve in the PC space (both as a storefront AND as a gaming-focused OS to combat SteamOS).
They're also experimenting with launching non-ABK titles on Battle.net, so if that is deemed acceptable for them they might begin to fold all their PC business into it and take off the kid gloves with Valve. Like think about it, why on earth would you allow Valve to make %30 on Elder Scrolls 6 when you can make it timed or full exclusive on your storefront? Are we seriously thinking the PC community will just ignore ES6 like they did with those small EGS exclusives?
The next big battle for them is going to be Steam, and while they are far better equipped for it than Epic ever was (I went into that here and here), I would not back this management team to properly compete, I just don't think they understand what consumers want.
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GHG
Gold Member
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
So you were wrong in blaming Microsoft's downtrend on the overall market while others in similar sectors are up. Meanwhile you ignore that Microsoft made their largest ever M&A into video games in buying ABK and have seen no return on this investment.
Microsoft is doing great as a company, that doesn't mean they've had a positive year or that there aren't repercussions for a lack of performance.
I fully expect more layoffs at Microsoft and in the gaming division in particular and when that happens you'll wave it off I'm sure. As I said, it's not just because of Xbox, but because of under performance in key divisions that could have probably used the investment Microsoft made in ABK and Zenimax more than Xbox which isn't showing any returns.
I don't know why I bother with you. You're an unserious person who looks to defend Microsoft out of blind allegiance despite reality.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
CompleteGlobalSaturation
Member
MacReady13
Member
I purchase games regularly and I don't need or want Gamepass so he's dead wrong.
Phil has ruined what Xbox once was- a fantastic console brand with great games. It's not a fucking rental box and really doesn't know what it truly wants to be. Pathetic from Phil.
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
They're going to keep GP running though for the next 10 years, minimum. MS traditionally is too late to everything. Too late to phones, to Zune, to HD-DVD. This is the one area they're too early, and it's still possible people could transition more to cloud / subs over the next decade like they have in every other form of media. As long as it's making a small profit and not cratering Call of Duty sales, it's worth keeping around and they're clearly pointing to benefits with overall ecosystem engagement and playtime. And when people are in the ecosystem, they do buy games. It's also not a coincidence that cloud rights revert back in 10 years for Call of Duty. Their transition to PC is smart. That's where the next generation is going, not consoles. That's where all the growth is in Asia as well.
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Unknown Soldier
Member
Unironically the reason why there isn't a BurgerPass from McDonald's is because it would destroy their business model
Sound familiar?
Ar¢tos
Member
It's insane to think that one day someone in a MS meeting said "if we give them all the games for nearly free, they will all buy full priced games later!" and everyone in the room agreed to it.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
2nd largest company by market cap, often trading places as #1.
'performance hasn't been where it needs to be'.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
2nd largest company by market cap, often trading places as #1.
'performance hasn't been where it needs to be'.
I can tell you don't own a single stock..
Donald mac Ronald
Member
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
what growth?
Video Games Market Size To Hit USD 721.77 Billion By 2034
The global video games market size was estimated at USD 274.63 billion in 2024 and it is projected to hit around USD 721.77 billion by 2034 with a CAGR of 10.15%.
GamesIndustry.biz presents… The Year In Numbers 2024
Tis the season to be jolly pouring over pie charts, bar graphs, tables and any other statistics we can throw at you.
www.gamesindustry.biz
Only mobile is growing. That's where the new and next generation are right now.
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Unknown Soldier
Member
That's actually not what was said in the meeting though.
What actually was said went more like this:
"If we buy all the publishers in the industry and give their products away for nearly free, we can devalue the industry to the point where we'll be able to drive competitors who rely on selling full-priced games like Sony and Nintendo out of business. Then we'll have a monopoly! All the world will bow before us, praise us, and despair!"
Their plan almost worked too, except that sovereign governments started to give MS the side-eye after they started buying all the publishers. MS is a known repeat offender in the monopolism business and even lost a legendary anti-trust lawsuit against the US Department of Justice over force-bundling of Internet Explorer with Windows to crush Netscape Navigator in the late 1990's
ExtendEmbraceExtinguish
Member
Everything is going as planned.
Oem's for future devices.
Asus for beta portable to Xbox handheld to Windows handheld.
If they are willing to lose money on play anywhere aka buy on msft store get a steam copy (key) leading to cut steam out then it leads to cutting out Nintendo/sony from a revenue source.
Pc demo shows they can't afford 70 usd games; what do think happens when it's 80 plus.
The end goal so far is software via msft store with hardware being optional. Sony needs gaas titles to generate revenue to fund aaa or drown via 3rd parties and Nintendo has to kill emulators or windows devices eat them eventually.
This is why msft doesn't consider them competitors as their growth is limited via hardware and funding.
It's the idiocy of your meaningless interpretations. If you had a little knowledge of the markets and these data, you'd understand the ridiculousness of suggesting a positive situation for Apple, Google, Nvidia, Sony, etc., in contrast to a negative one for MS.
But hey! I assume you're a lost cause and that your hatred is stronger than your willingness to make interpretations.
Ignoring? What's there to ignore? It's clear how they're trying to recoup their investment... it's another thing to want to believe they're doing it with the intention of shutting down XBOX...
Oh my goodness
What big company do you think had a good year? When all of them have lost a significant percentage of their value?
The fact is that MS is the one that has performed best, even with the doubts about AI investments. Aside from Nvidia and its boom (which is now declining), it's been a turbulent year for all the Big Tech companies. And no, Xbox hasn't had anything to do with it.
Ladies and gentlemen, a visionary here
LOL, as if predicting layoffs in these times were something worthy of praise.
Anyway, another example of interpreting based on dislike for a brand. The use of a yardstick.
It's a shame your sixth sense for predicting layoffs at MS doesn't work with the layoffs at Sony, the closure of studios, and the massive cancellation of projects... But of course, in those threads you're trying to make people believe they're simple decisions that have nothing to do with the business situation.
That one of the clearest examples of an Xbox hater, whose entire participation in this forum is limited to demonstrating that hatred, criticizing everything that sounds like Xbox, wishing for its end... while not having the slightest critical thought towards Sony, talks about "unserious" people..... Let me laugh....
#only in Neogaf
Baemono
Member
So with the state of the industry where when a game doesn't sell enough, the devs are being layed-off, not buying games and opting for a monthly sbuscription is the common sense ?
NickFire
Member
Imagine being so bad at managing studios that you convinced your boss to let everyone convert prepaid online access to 3 years of free games for a dollar. And then still need to spend almost 100 billion to get content people want for your subscription service. And then still have to do the walk of shame when it didn't work.
Legendary I tell you.
MiguelItUp
Member
It's so odd to me that many here want studios to fail. It really makes no sense to me.
What he says makes sense, I mean, with how people react to Game Pass here, it shows that it's "not for everyone."
But they're providing options, and options can be good for consumers. Hell, they have been providing more options than any other studio, which should be appreciated by folks. It's the biggest thing that allows them to stand out. So, people that have it are generally happy with it, people that don't are happy without it. As long as it's not a complete waste for them (which it never has sound like it has been), then it's probably doing what they want it to.
What he says makes sense, I mean, with how people react to Game Pass here, it shows that it's "not for everyone."
But they're providing options, and options can be good for consumers. Hell, they have been providing more options than any other studio, which should be appreciated by folks. It's the biggest thing that allows them to stand out. So, people that have it are generally happy with it, people that don't are happy without it. As long as it's not a complete waste for them (which it never has sound like it has been), then it's probably doing what they want it to.
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