• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

GameIndustry "PS Plus price hike: We'll all pay for a subscription-based future"

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch

In the past couple of weeks, though, it feels like we've seen a couple of unwelcome flashes of the arrogant beast that Sony once was.

First there was the news that the PlayStation Portal – a curious device whose price point makes it very interesting even if its limited feature-set makes it unclear who exactly it's designed for – has eschewed Bluetooth audio for a Sony proprietary standard, forcing users to buy forthcoming Sony earbuds or headsets to enjoy wireless audio with the device.
Even Apple hasn't strayed from Bluetooth in its devices, instead building on and around the standard for its AirPods' functionality; god only knows what deep-seated delusion of grandeur has made Sony think it's in a position to force a proprietary wireless audio standard when a vastly larger and more powerful company like Apple has pointedly shied away from that disastrous idea.

If that wasn't giving us all unwelcome flashbacks to Sony's 2006 villain era, next came the news that only a year after launch, all of the PlayStation Plus tiers are getting price hikes – massive, inflation-busting price hikes of around 33%, which will bring the annual price for the base tier of the service to $80 (from the current $60) and raise the top 'Premium' tier to an eye-watering $160.
Compared to Game Pass, Sony's service is honestly pretty threadbare. Its lowest tier amounts to little more than charging a shockingly high rent for fundamental console services like multiplayer games and the ability to transfer save files off the device, while its higher-end tiers offer a software library that's patchy at best, with a retro/classic game offering that's embarrassingly poor, feeling more like someone trawled the contents of a 99 cent bargain bin at a second hand game shop in the early 2000s than like an actual library of PlayStation's illustrious history.
The existing model is not actually commercially viable for anyone in that pipeline – developers, publishers, platform holders – but it has been given life by hooking up a cash pipeline from the platform holders' coffers, allowing them to offer a large library of software to consumers for a low price.
Without the subsidy, the subscription revenues are sliced up far too thinly, and while there are some winners (primarily publishers with a knack for making low-budget titles into viral hits for a month or two), most companies would lose out if platform holder bucks weren't keeping the whole edifice afloat. That won't last; the assumption is that once the market is established, the platform holders will be able to squeeze both ends of the pipeline and start making their money back.
 

Tsaki

Member
What is with this Bluetooth thing everyone whines about? Bluetooth is horrible for gaming due to latency. Every headset you get, you either go wired or it has a dongle. Of course the device needs proprietary tech to play with a headset.
Update: I just tried my earbuds with Bluetooth on my PC and even Youtube videos have a noticeable delay between picture and audio.
 
Last edited:

X-Wing

Member
Season 5 Nbc GIF by The Office
 

StereoVsn

Gold Member
What is with this Bluetooth thing everyone whines about? Bluetooth is horrible for gaming due to latency. Every headset you get, you either go wired or it has a dongle. Of course the device needs proprietary tech to play with a headset.
Update: I just tried my earbuds with Bluetooth on my PC and even Youtube videos have a noticeable delay between picture and audio.
Bluetooth is fine for gaming latency. There also low latency Bluetooth protocols that can help minimize it. Choice should be up to the owners.

Basically this is BS and attempt by Sony to push even more accessories.
 

skit_data

Member
What is with this Bluetooth thing everyone whines about? Bluetooth is horrible for gaming due to latency. Every headset you get, you either go wired or it has a dongle. Of course the device needs proprietary tech to play with a headset.
Update: I just tried my earbuds with Bluetooth on my PC and even Youtube videos have a noticeable delay between picture and audio.
Yeah it's a bit wierd to mix it in with the rest - I'll just assume the author doesn't really know what benefits Playstation Link brings over Bluetooth.
 

Eotheod

Member
What is with this Bluetooth thing everyone whines about? Bluetooth is horrible for gaming due to latency. Every headset you get, you either go wired or it has a dongle. Of course the device needs proprietary tech to play with a headset.
Update: I just tried my earbuds with Bluetooth on my PC and even Youtube videos have a noticeable delay between picture and audio.
My openrun pro shokz have no noticeable lag for audio and voice playback, so not sure what it is you may be experiencing. Obviously anecdotal, however Bluetooth is definitely perfectly viable for gaming audio.
 
Last edited:

RagnarokIV

Battlebus imprisoning me \m/ >.< \m/
its higher-end tiers offer a software library that's patchy at best, with a retro/classic game offering that's embarrassingly poor, feeling more like someone trawled the contents of a 99 cent bargain bin at a second hand game shop in the early 2000s than like an actual library of PlayStation's illustrious history.

Hahaha. It's so true it hurts, it's why I cancelled.
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
What is with this Bluetooth thing everyone whines about? Bluetooth is horrible for gaming due to latency. Every headset you get, you either go wired or it has a dongle. Of course the device needs proprietary tech to play with a headset.
Update: I just tried my earbuds with Bluetooth on my PC and even Youtube videos have a noticeable delay between picture and audio.

You'll be shock at how many people were disappointed when Switch doesn't support bluetooth at launch


Also, Playstation VITA have bluetooth.
 
Last edited:

ZehDon

Member
The thread title should probably be renamed to "GamesIndustry.biz Flashes Its Sony Hate Boner". That makes it more clear what this article is really about.
Spitting fire on a 33% price hike for literally nothing isn't a hate boner - it's calling out pure, undiluted greed. If it was a baseless attack, I'd like your post and move on, but it seems Sony's almost deliberately eroding the goodwill of the PS4 era. If PS4 was Sony earning back what it lost during the PS3 generation (and then some) then PS5 is Sony deciding it's time to get paid.
 
Last edited:

X-Wing

Member
I do think people overreact about the "price hike" though. It's the discounted yearly subscription that went up. All the rest is the same, it is still cheaper to buy one year of Plus than to pay every month or every 3 months. And one year of Plus is still cheaper than one year of the concurrent service.
 

skit_data

Member
My openrun pro shokz have no noticeable lag for audio and voice playback, so not sure what it is you may be experiencing. Obviously anecdotal, however Bluetooth is definitely perfectly viable for gaming audio.
I'd say it's more than just latency, Playstation Link ticks both the lossless and latency boxes. It may not be necessary for everyone though.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Bringing up the price of PS3 as an example of predatory pricing is simply laughable when its been known for literally a decade and half, how much money Sony was losing per unit due to the unexpectedly high BoM cost.

It'd be a cringingly idiotic argument if it were made by someone posting on a forum, but from a "supposedly" legitimate outlet it can only be construed as being dishonest.
 

Three

Member

Hahaha. It's so true it hurts, it's why I cancelled.
Na, that's actually horseshit. Pretty much most of the classic games that made playstation what it is are there.



Bringing up the price of PS3 as an example of predatory pricing is simply laughable when its been known for literally a decade and half, how much money Sony was losing per unit due to the unexpectedly high BoM cost.

It'd be a cringingly idiotic argument if it were made by someone posting on a forum, but from a "supposedly" legitimate outlet it can only be construed as being dishonest.

Especially as he is using arguments like proprietary wireless audio instead of bluetooth for Playstation 5 headsets. The PS3 was all the things this guy wanted selling at a loss while others were selling proprietary accessories like proprietary wireless dongles, proprietary HDD, proprietary headsets etc to profit.
 
Last edited:

IFireflyl

Gold Member
Spitting fire on a 33% price hike for literally nothing isn't a hate boner - it's calling out pure, undiluted greed. If it was a baseless attack, I'd like your post and move on, but it seems Sony's almost deliberately eroding the goodwill of the PS4 era. If PS4 was Sony earning back what it lost during the PS3 generation (and then some) then PS5 is Sony deciding it's time to get paid.

If the only thing that article was doing was complaining about a price hike for subscriptions I wouldn't have made my comment in the first place. Read the article.

There's a flicker of Sony's old arrogance...
It's been a little while since we saw a glimpse of the Bad Old Sony...
Subsequently playing catch-up to Microsoft for most of that generation injected a much-needed dose of humility into the company's thinking...
In the past couple of weeks, though, it feels like we've seen a couple of unwelcome flashes of the arrogant beast that Sony once was.
…god only knows what deep-seated delusion of grandeur has made Sony think it's in a position...
If that wasn't giving us all unwelcome flashbacks to Sony's 2006 villain era...
…I'm unconvinced that PS Plus has all that many ardent fans to begin with.

I don't disagree with the statement that a subscription-based future is terrible. In fact, I am fully onboard with that sentiment. But this person's writing went beyond this premise, and it comes across as someone who hates Sony finally being able to justify their hatred. I'm not saying that that is what the author intended. I'm just saying the deviation from the matter at hand (subscription services suck balls) was unnecessary, and it didn't really tie into the original issue. It seems like the author just wanted to say, "Sony sucked, and now they suck again."
 
Last edited:

Three

Member
RagnarokIV RagnarokIV Instead of laughing can you say what resembles "a second hand bargin bin in 2000" for a classics collection? It's horseshit.

It includes everything that made playstation playstation back then. The top tier games are all there and there is nothing bargin bin about it. All the God of wars, twisted metal, all the ratchet and clanks, all Syphon Filters,Jak and Daxter, Sly Cooper, classic Resident evils, classic Tekkens, Yakuzas, Ridge Racers, all the GTAs were even in the library, Dark Cloud, Legend of Dragoon...

Nothing "bargain bin in the 2000s instead of an actual library of PlayStation's illustrious history" about it, sorry.
 

Thick Thighs Save Lives

NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
I do think people overreact about the "price hike" though. It's the discounted yearly subscription that went up. All the rest is the same, it is still cheaper to buy one year of Plus than to pay every month or every 3 months. And one year of Plus is still cheaper than one year of the concurrent service.
Most people have already talked this to death, but I'll just mention that locking cloud saves behind a now $80 yearly sub is anti-consumer as fuck, especially when the main competitor, Xbox, offers this feature for free to all users. Even Steam offers free cloud saves!

And the offline backup feature is useless since even if you only select the saves category to back up, once you restore them you'll have to format the SSD so you'll have to re-download everything anyway. Thanks Sony!
 
Last edited:

Kenneth Haight

Gold Member
not me. I’m going back to buying games. Essential is fine and I can deal with but Extra and Premium were a mistake for consumers like me. I can barely play the titles on there with my limited time so I’m going to let my sub run and I’ll just buy essential for online games and cloud saves. Shame about the price increase but inflation is hitting everything. I can’t complain too much as it will do nothing.
 

Three

Member
not me. I’m going back to buying games. Essential is fine and I can deal with but Extra and Premium were a mistake for consumers like me. I can barely play the titles on there with my limited time so I’m going to let my sub run and I’ll just buy essential for online games and cloud saves. Shame about the price increase but inflation is hitting everything. I can’t complain too much as it will do nothing.
I think essential is getting shafted the most. The others you can at least argue that they need to remain competitive for securing content but the other is just hiking it for those who might not even care for content in the sub and just want online play or saves.
 

DrFigs

Member
Bluetooth is fine for gaming latency. There also low latency Bluetooth protocols that can help minimize it. Choice should be up to the owners.

Basically this is BS and attempt by Sony to push even more accessories.
My issue is that the ps5 and xbox one don't support bluetooth either. Like right now it's not supported... so why would this ps5 accessory support it. And the switch didn't support bluetooth until last year - so apparently people were fine with this for many years even w/ handheld consoles. It just seemed like people are complaining about this thing which is like a super common design choice and acting like it's insane. Plus it has a headphone jack - you can use any pair of headphones with it.
 
Last edited:

StereoVsn

Gold Member
My issue is that the ps5 and xbox one don't support bluetooth either. Like right now it's not supported... so why would this ps5 accessory support it. And the switch didn't support bluetooth until last year - so apparently people were fine with this for many years even w/ handheld consoles. It just seemed like people are complaining about this thing which is like a super common design choice and acting like it's insane. Plus it has a headphone jack - you can use any pair of headphones with it.
We are in 2023, soon to be 2024 (this releases in November). I couldn't give a flying f what was supported before. Even $100 mobile phones support Bluetooth. It's inconsequential cost.

For the switch at least you could get a small 3rd party dongle for Bluetooth soon after release. Maybe same would work here.

Either way this shit is tiresome and a modern device should support modern conveniences if they want the stupid thing to sell.
 

Golgo 13

The Man With The Golden Dong
Great article! %100 spot on. A %33 increase with no added value (and no explanation) to a service is a blatant “fuck you” to consumers.

Simple math tells you that If less than %33 of people cancel their subscriptions, then Sony will have profited on this endeavor (speaking in terms of the essential Tier). Highly doubtful that will happen - I honestly don’t think many people even pay attention to their renewing subscription services.
 

dotnotbot

Member
My issue is that the ps5 and xbox one don't support bluetooth either. Like right now it's not supported... so why would this ps5 accessory support it. And the switch didn't support bluetooth until last year - so apparently people were fine with this for many years even w/ handheld consoles. It just seemed like people are complaining about this thing which is like a super common design choice and acting like it's insane. Plus it has a headphone jack - you can use any pair of headphones with it.

And sends audio through USB so you can connect an adapter or your own external dac/amp.

We are in 2023, soon to be 2024 (this releases in November). I couldn't give a flying f what was supported before. Even $100 mobile phones support Bluetooth. It's inconsequential cost.

For the switch at least you could get a small 3rd party dongle for Bluetooth soon after release. Maybe same would work here.

Either way this shit is tiresome and a modern device should support modern conveniences if they want the stupid thing to sell.

It does, adapters work just fine with PS4/5.
 
Last edited:

Griffon

Member
Subscriptions are crashing down all around (it's killing Disney, of all things).

It is not the future.
MS is only doing it because they have an IRL infinite money glitch.


My take is that Sony doesn't want to kill-off game sales with a too-good-to-be-true subscription service. And I think they're right, tho a really good next step would be to make online free.
 
Last edited:

StereoVsn

Gold Member
And sends audio through USB so you can connect an adapter or your own external dac/amp.

It does, adapters work just fine with PS4/5.
Yes, I know I have a headphone DAC hooked up to PS5. But much as with PS5, I wouof have liked to be able to choose between that and Bluetooth.

Again, this isn't some esoteric tech. Hell, I think Sony have their own Bluetooth low latency protocol even.
 

DrFigs

Member
We are in 2023, soon to be 2024 (this releases in November). I couldn't give a flying f what was supported before. Even $100 mobile phones support Bluetooth. It's inconsequential cost.

For the switch at least you could get a small 3rd party dongle for Bluetooth soon after release. Maybe same would work here.

Either way this shit is tiresome and a modern device should support modern conveniences if they want the stupid thing to sell.
A lot of those 100 dollar phones are not releasing with headphone jacks in the current year either. Maybe down the line they'll add bluetooth, but if the concern is just not being restricted to sony headphones. it's an already an option. it doesn't seem likely that the reason why xbox and playstation don't support bluetooth is because they're selling their own wireless headsets.

edit: actually i'm not sure how it works. if bluetooth is something that can be added or not down the line. i have no idea.
 
Last edited:

StereoVsn

Gold Member
A lot of those 100 dollar phones are not releasing with headphone jacks in the current year either. Maybe down the line they'll add bluetooth, but if the concern is just not being restricted to sony headphones. it's an already an option. it doesn't seem likely that the reason why xbox and playstation don't support bluetooth is because they're selling their own wireless headsets.
No idea, would love somebody to ask Jimbo or Phil that. It's annoying AF on physical consoles and doubly so on handhelds. And yes, removing physical jacks from phones also sucks.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
What is with this Bluetooth thing everyone whines about? Bluetooth is horrible for gaming due to latency. Every headset you get, you either go wired or it has a dongle. Of course the device needs proprietary tech to play with a headset.
Update: I just tried my earbuds with Bluetooth on my PC and even Youtube videos have a noticeable delay between picture and audio.

Maybe you’re extra sensitive to it, but I’ve never noticed a delay when using Bluetooth anything on my PC. No dongle needed either.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
Subscriptions are crashing down all around (it's killing Disney, of all things).

It is not the future.
MS is only doing it because they have an IRL infinite money glitch.


My take is that Sony doesn't want to kill-off game sales with a too-good-to-be-true subscription service. And I think they're right, tho a really good next step would be to make online free.
Sony is raising the price of online by 33%. Why would they make it free?
 

StereoVsn

Gold Member
What's even more annoying they are still hiding cloud saves (the only way to backup your saves) behind Essentials. And hiking the price up. So you have to pay $80 if all you want is cloud saves.
 

Ozzie666

Member
Sony raised the price by > 30% and has yet to announce any increase in value for the player. Whilst at the same time posting record profits from digital subcriptions and purchases. This is a move for stock holders wanting more return on investment. Now if Sony suddenly announces a large range of PSone, PSP and Vita titles as part of the service for the Portal, or something similar. Then maybe they can justify it. Right now the increase doesn't make any sense with the information at hand, over than corporate greed. Remember when digital games were touted as costing less than physical? This is their version of shrinkgate. I find it sickening their stock price went up as result of this move.
 
Last edited:

Hudo

Member
Subscriptions are crashing down all around (it's killing Disney, of all things).

It is not the future.
MS is only doing it because they have an IRL infinite money glitch.


My take is that Sony doesn't want to kill-off game sales with a too-good-to-be-true subscription service. And I think they're right, tho a really good next step would be to make online free.
Dunno, Sony's latest numbers showed that their Playstation business makes the most money out of service-related things and suggested that the people actually buying games is comparatively low (which would explain why Ryan is pushing the service-based games strategy on his studios). So I dunno if they would then go and deliberately "pollute" their biggest cash cow.

I rather think the price hike happend because they figured out that they can. The amount of people they lose is less than the amount of money they make off people who are so locked into their ecosystem that they won't leave it.
 

X-Wing

Member
Most people have already talked this to death, but I'll just mention that locking cloud saves behind a now $80 yearly sub is anti-consumer as fuck, especially when the main competitor, Xbox, offers this feature for free to all users. Even Steam offers free cloud saves!

And the offline backup feature is useless since even if you only select the saves category to back up, once you restore them you'll have to format the SSD so you'll have to re-download everything anyway. Thanks Sony!
That is kinda unrelated to what I was saying but ok. I think if you are against cloud saves behind a subscription it shouldn't really matter how much that subscription is.
On the other hand, Microsoft uses its own infrastructure for cloud saving, Sony rents it from a third party, can't imagine they would do provide that for free...
 

Thick Thighs Save Lives

NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
That is kinda unrelated to what I was saying but ok. I think if you are against cloud saves behind a subscription it shouldn't really matter how much that subscription is.
On the other hand, Microsoft uses its own infrastructure for cloud saving, Sony rents it from a third party, can't imagine they would do provide that for free...
Well it's somewhat related because you're justifying this hike while a basic feature like cloud saves is locked behind the essential tier which has received a $20 increase... Also, let me know how Steam is able to provide free cloud saves, but poor Sony can't?
 
Last edited:

Hudo

Member
Even Steam offers free cloud saves!
"Even Steam" is a bit funny considering that Steam has been the least worst out of all these shitty platforms. Get this: They also let you play online free of charge. Gabe seems to hate money*.

*Nah, it's actually because they can't control that aspect anyway on PC, so why bother.
 

DrFigs

Member
Subscriptions are crashing down all around (it's killing Disney, of all things).

It is not the future.
MS is only doing it because they have an IRL infinite money glitch.


My take is that Sony doesn't want to kill-off game sales with a too-good-to-be-true subscription service. And I think they're right, tho a really good next step would be to make online free.
I'm not sure if we can read it as Sony going all in on subscriptions, like xbox is either. I don't think raising the price means that they'll be adding day one games, for example. Honestly i'm not sure if that's better or worse. I'm definitely against the all subscription future, but it is also insane to be charging so much for this little in return.
 
Last edited:
Yes. It's sad to see Sony seemingly following suit. Although probably this is just like a purely greed driven thing. I'm not sure if we can read it as Sony going all in on subscriptions, like xbox is. I don't think raising the price means that they'll be adding day one games, for example. Honestly i'm not sure if that's better or worse. I'm definitely against the all subscription future, but it is also insane to be charging so much for this little in return.
Its my issue with this as well, show me why I should be paying more for an already weak service

So far it just feels greedy
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The fact that playing a small amount of classics is tied to paying $160 a year is ridiculous.

Classics should be decoupled from the service, let people buy them à la carte.
 
Last edited:

X-Wing

Member
Well it's somewhat related because you're justifying this hike while a basic feature like cloud saves is locked behind the essential tier which has received a $20 increase... Also, let me know how Steam is able to provide free cloud saves, but poor Sony can't?

See, I understand some have issues with interpretation but no, I wasn't justifying anything, I was putting it into context.
And it stands because what I said is true, they reduced the level of discount they offer if you subscribe for a year vs renewing every month but the price of the other subscription models remains the same.
They could also not offer any discount at all and simply charge 12 x 15,99 euros for the highest tier instead of 10x15,99 euros like they will do after this.
Whether you agree that cloud saving is tied to the service or not is another discussion. I personally don't care and only use cloud saving when I play something over stream which I can't do without the service anyway.
 
The fact that playing a small amount of classics is tied to paying $160 a year is ridiculous.

Classics should be decoupled from the service, let people buy them à la carte.
I don't care for a bunch of the classics offering so buying à la carte is the best option for me. Premium is the most underwhelming upper tier subscription service I've ever seen.
 

Three

Member
I'm not sure if we can read it as Sony going all in on subscriptions, like xbox is either. I don't think raising the price means that they'll be adding day one games, for example. Honestly i'm not sure if that's better or worse. I'm definitely against the all subscription future, but it is also insane to be charging so much for this little in return.
I would read it as them doing exactly that. Their batch of games that relied on the old model of selling games on PS5 all released and most went into the subscription service already. Their new games likely won't follow the same model.

Demon's Souls, Death Stranding DC, GoT, Returnal, Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart, Horizon forbidden west, Spiderman Miles Morales. Pretty much most of their PS5 game releases went into PS+ and I'd say their drive to sell PS5s and their focus on games that will be more multiplayer focused with MTX suggests they are going all in on subscriptions like MS have. They see themselves as competing with gamepass now and pricing accordingly. I'd even argue they put more hits into PS+ since the consoles released than gamepass have. Just to build their service and go all in on it. I expect Ragnarok to hit PS+ soon too along with the possible DLC announcement. This is the pivot point that Jim Ryan said "not yet" to years ago coming into play now.
 
Last edited:

Thick Thighs Save Lives

NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
See, I understand some have issues with interpretation but no, I wasn't justifying anything, I was putting it into context.
And it stands because what I said is true, they reduced the level of discount they offer if you subscribe for a year vs renewing every month but the price of the other subscription models remains the same.
They could also not offer any discount at all and simply charge 12 x 15,99 euros for the highest tier instead of 10x15,99 euros like they will do after this.
Whether you agree that cloud saving is tied to the service or not is another discussion. I personally don't care and only use cloud saving when I play something over stream which I can't do without the service anyway.
Jim Ryan himself said last year that two thirds of people are subscribing through the yearly plan which has now received a huge %30 hike. They didn't touch those monthly plans which are priced badly imo for what they're offering vs the main competition, as they have the data where it shows that the majority of people are picking the annual plans anyway.

I do think people overreact about the "price hike" though. It's the discounted yearly subscription that went up. All the rest is the same, it is still cheaper to buy one year of Plus than to pay every month or every 3 months. And one year of Plus is still cheaper than one year of the concurrent service.

Also, you're disingenuously putting price hike in quotes when for all intents and purposes IT IS a price increase for over 66% of PS+ owners as per the data that Jim Ryan has shared in 2022 in which over two thirds of subscribers are using the yearly plan as the default sub method.


But anyway, you haven't addressed my prior point about cloud saves being locked behind the essential tier - which is now $80 a year - when Steam (which is not a cloud provider, btw) has similar if not bigger MAU than PlayStation and can offer this feature for free to all users. Why can't Sony do the same?

image.png
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom