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[Fbh]

You know what I'm talking about:
" To upgrade your armor you need 3X Purple Wolf Pelts and 2X Orange Fire Spiders and 5X Bullshit Ores"

It has been a part of games for a long time, and now that increasingly more AAA titles are adding some form of RPG and gear mechanics it's becoming all the more common. It's in everything from Demon Souls remake and Horizon Forbidden West to Tears of the Kingdom. And the more I encounter it, the more I realize it's a mechanic that I've never enjoyed.

In the vast majority of games it's pretty much just a way to waste time and make already lengthy games even longer. Getting the materials generally isn't fun nor does it involve skill, it involves spending time going to specific locations to pick up specific items and maybe ocasional kill specific regular enemies, If the game wants to be extra annoying it can also lower the drop rates so you need to spend even more time killing the same enemies over and over for the item to drop. You can go the "legit" way and spend yet more time looking for these items on your own and figuring out which enemy drops what, or you can do what most people do and just look it up online.

In the worst cases I've found it to hinder my enjoyment of the game. Like in Horizon Forbidden West I rarely tried out new weapons and armor because for them to be better than my current gear I'd have to upgrade them which is such a pain and feels like a waste of time in a game that's already pretty bloated. Or in Demon Souls remake I found myself intentionally killing my character to lower the world tendency so the Rock Worms would drop their fucking Chunks of Greystone more frequently, and it was hard not to think what the point of this mechanic is.

I realize devs want to give you a sense of progression or keep you from fully upgrading every piece of equipment you find (so it feels more like you are making a choice). But isn't there a better way?
Like I don't know, some sort of limited universal currency or item that's used for all upgrades and which you find through questing, exploring, beating enemies, etc so it feels like you can progress towards your next gear upgrade while actually engaging with the core content of the game instead of having to go out of your way to gather specific items.

 

[Punished Miku]

Only in Monster Hunter is that process actually a bit enjoyable since it organically ties into the rest of the game.

Most of the time, not really?

 

[ReBurn]

Not ever.

 

[Shtof]

Depends on the game.
In most games, I despise it.
But in the Horizon games the hunting robot dinosaurs part is the best part of the game.
Getting the right components for some weapons require a certain amount of skill and planning.
And you don't really need to do it to be able to finish the game.
It's just endgame content to give you an excuse to kill a few more thunderjaws.

Hunting those pesky little animals to upgrade your pouches, though?
Such game design should be illegal.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

 

[RoboFu]

Somewhat .. I like it in dark souls but hate it in Monster hunter.

 

[Cert.in.Death]

Yes.

The task associated with it, however, is another matter.

 

[bitbydeath]

Depends on the game, survival games like The Last of Us works well.

 

[March Climber]

As with farming-style games or town mayor games, it all depends on how fun the gameplay loop is around it. It's a shame that a lot of games, especially RPGs, get it wrong and make it feel like busywork.

 

[Knightime_X]

Depends if it's worth the effort.
If the gain/reward isn't equal to the amount of time and effort then I don't want it in the game at all.

 

[Matsuchezz]

I hate that shit a lot. I tried to play a tomb raider game where you have to customize a lot of shit and upgrade stuff. I quit it after a couple of hours. I enjoy it if it's fairly simple, I like it like in the movies, you just pick up dropped guns, you don't eat nor take a shit, you just kill the baddies. The customization in The last of us is simple enough and works alright. I hate to be in menus trying to upgrade shit, I also disliked it in Ragnarok.

 

[lughnasadh123]

I hate having multiple weapons with a limited amount of upgrade materials. Also hate hard to get, low drop rate materials that just make you grind for a little boost.

 

[dreamstation]

Generally no, but if done in a meaningful way as part of the story or what not it can be OK. But the whole collecting a thousand of some generic shit to increase numbers is boring.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Yes, I'm a sucker for that kind of thing.

 

[kiphalfton]

Tomb Raider reboot trilogy beat it out of me.

Games have done that and skill trees to death, and I honestly hate both now.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Final Fantasy XVI solved this problem by giving you nothing to use all your crafting materials on.

 

[Fbh]

Final Fantasy XVI solved this problem by giving you nothing to use all your crafting materials on.

Haven't played it but to be honest I'd rather have no upgrading than this sort of annoying upgrades

 

[Danjin44]

I dont mind as long as material drop rate is reasonable. As much as I LOVED Nier Gestalt, up grading your weapon in that game paaaaaaaaain in the ass and all because how atrocious the drop rate was and whats worse it has you get cool weapon stories with each upgrade.

 

[LaughingStock]

Not if it's too grindy.
I used a trainer in remnant 2.

 

[jonnyXx]

Don't ever play Genshin Impact then. Instead of hours it takes months to upgrade your characters... Or maybe do play it and then this won't seem so bad in other games.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Haven't played it but to be honest I'd rather have no upgrading than this sort of annoying upgrades

Every side quest, hunt, and treasure chest rewards you with tons of crafting materials that you have literally zero use for.

Anyway to seriously answer the question, I generally don’t like it if it’s just based on random luck and lots of repetition/farming.

If you get materials from quests or other unique means then it can be good. E.g. Final Fantasy VIII you got a lot of the materials from card mod or stealing. But if it’s just “run around picking up shiny blue dots until you randomly get the thing you need” then fuck that.

 

[StereoVsn]

I kind of liked doing weapon and armor mods in Fallout NV and 4, but that's about it. Nite that Fallout 4 Settlement system generally annoyed the hell out of me.

But all in all, don't like it. I would rather have good itemization in general and being able to find good loot instead.

 

[ZehDon]

If the materials are acquired during the course of the regular gameplay loop, and then you make a decision about what to upgrade, I generally enjoy it.
If I have to go out of my way to farm up 25 Blaster Rods for a +10% Damage upgrade, that is effectively mandatory to keep fights paced reasonably, then I really don't enjoy it.

 

[Jigsaah]

I think it would be cool in an MMO if you could iterate on gear to make it better. Get one drop...gather materials, and maybe do a minigame requiring skill to do the upgrade. It would bring it closer to 1 to 1 in real life and give players a sense of professionalism and maybe even make them sought after as artisans of their craft. Final Fantasy XIV does it right I think.

I'm really not a fan of gather x amount of steel, bring it here, hit a button and it's done.

 

[Fuz]

Feels like you guys want to remove every mechanics from games.

 

[Jigsaah]

Feels like you guys want to remove every mechanics from games.

I'm actually arguing to add mechanics. See above

 

[Griffon]

I always hated it.

By the same token, I fucking hate games where you spend an inordinate amount of time looting stuff (from drawers, lockers, plants, enemies corpse, etc.). Cleptomaniac simulator I call those.

 

[Meicyn]

If it makes sense for the game, I like it. If it’s in there because that’s what other games are doing, then no.

Gotham Knights is an example of a game where you gather materials to make stuff. Makes zero sense given the context of you playing members of the DC Bat Family, and fails to be engaging in any manner.

In a game like Final Fantasy XI, where the entire game economy revolves around commodities and requires all players to engage with it whether you craft or not, such as the mere act of selling raw materials to others? Then yes, I like it.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

A necessary evil. In AC Valhalla, I get the Brigandine armor as soon as I get to England. Then I get to work upgrading it as I know I'll be using it for most of the game. Finding the materials isn't that much of a problem, it just takes a long time.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Grinding and farming could be fun for some I guess. But it never serves any clear purpose except make the game longer and make you feel you "deserved" your upgrades. TOTK went way overboard with it, and this time it requires money too, unlike In BOTW where you just had to pay a fairy once.

It's true that you're not really supposed to upgrade every single piece of equip you have. But sometimes the requirements are crazy anyway, and having to rely on random drops from enemies makes the whole thing much worse. I still haven't forgotten those damn stones in Demon's Souls. If I have to grind, I'd rather just do it for money like in the old RPGs instead of having to farm dozens of different materials.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Depends on the game. Monster Hunter, yes. Far Cry, no.

 

[EviLore]

It’s fine in the Souls series. Generalized enough that you have some idea of where to get it, mostly used as a mechanic to force you to make choices about your upgrade path and as a reward for exploration. Grinding is available for hardcore ng+ players and pvpers but can be safely ignored otherwise.

In TotK there was no way I’d be going through all that resource collecting in the same exact way again for the same gear upgrades as BotW.

And in most games it’s terrible and very little thought has been put into design.

 

[Chastten]

If done correctly, absolutely.

The gameplay loop in the Atelier Ryza games for example is addicting as fuck. Farming materials and then crafting OP gear is great.

I also had no issues with it in TotK. I could upgrade everything pretty easily to at least the 3th tier simply because I'm the 'kill and collect everything I meet' kind of player, so I always have a bunch of materials ready.

But yeah, when a game expects you to farm one specific boss over and over again, with a 1% drop chance for the specific item you need, than they lose me. Luckily you don't ever need that kind of stuff to simply a finish a game.

 

[bender]

Feels purposeful in the Souls games, I don't mind it in the Zelda games, and it feels completely out of place in games like TLOU.

 

[Sleepwalker]

No and I usually get by with the bare minimum.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Hate it, cheap game design. Unimaginative. Padding. Shit.

 

[cireza]

Most of the time it is not about choices but simply to make the game artificially longer, that's why people won't like it.

 

[GymWolf]

Just depend on how good the core combat is, in monster hunter it is great, in the last zelda it was a slog.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Maybe, or maybe not. Depends on the game, to be honest.

 

[YukiOnna]

Depends on the game, but if it's for RPG's I'm generally fine with it since it's relaxing. It's just they have to strike a balance between not being overkill and grindy and myself not going overboard to make sure I'm only focusing on what I want. It's nice to just walk around doing so when I feel like it. But really it just depends on the title in the end.

 

[Roberts]

Sometimes it is great, sometimes not. I really like how it works in Grounded, because while you can finish the game without all the fancy upgrades, it makes the game easier and motivates you to explore new areas.

 

[existensmaximum]

In many games I love it, except for the Dark Souls/Bloodborne/Elden Ring games. None of it makes sense; the materials have retarded names, often there's a fixed number of some of the materials so if you waste it on the wrong weapon, you need a new playthrough to max out another weapon. That's actually one of the only few gripes I have with those games.

Other than that, I think it's super rewarding and a fulfilling experience to collect, search and grind for materials to upgrade my gear. As long as the persistence and patience pays off

 

[mrmustard]

Depends. In grindy games like Diablo or in survival games like Grounded it's fine, but i hate it in action adventures or shooters. Borderlands 3 had a good solution.

 

[N1tr0sOx1d3]

The amount of crocodiles I’ve killed in World of Warcraft that didn’t have teeth……..I hate it with a passion.

 

[Davevil]

Materia system on FF7. all that i want.

 

[L*][*N*K]

Yes, especially if it is not an annoying process

 

[Robb]

I’m not a huge fan. Tends to just make the game feel like busywork to me.

I would much rather have some kind of unique quest tied to it with the upgrade being the reward than having to grind to find materials.

 

[Black_Stride]

Monster Hunter yes please.
In pretty much every other game I dont even bother unless the game really does get unplayable hard without doing it........at which point im likely gonna abandon the game.

Don't ever play Genshin Impact then. Instead of hours it takes months to upgrade your characters... Or maybe do play it and then this won't seem so bad in other games.

Its a meme at this point in Genshin Impact.
When I got my first 5 star character I didnt even bother playing them cuz they were so under powered vs my 4 star characters and working my balls off to level them up just didnt make sense.

I had to just ignore min/maxing characters in Genshin Impact cuz that shit is some other level scummy.
Your other characters are level 80 with upgraded gear and constallations then they drop you a 5 star character at level 1, atleast let new characters start at a decent level.

 

[crackajack]

I don't like convoluted repetitive stuff. I also don't like points for skills where you just level up arbitrarily. You should get better by doing stuff repeatedly in exactly the stuff you do. Like actual training.
Such RPG elements in everything (and probably in actual RPGs too) should be entirely optional and people who choose to craft their own stuff, should get better at crafting, while people who ignore it have to find/buy better gear themselves and need a bit more skill to survive. An intelligent nuanced difficulty and item system with a map design stopping you from going too early to too hard areas should be able to make it challenging while never be impossible for any playstyle.

 

[ReBurn]

Feels like you guys want to remove every mechanics from games.

If those mechanics require grinding to make meaningful progress then yes, I want to remove them.