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[Wickerbasket]

So you're going to ignore the sign and go swimming? come on, common sense.

The kid didn't go swimming, he was attacked at the waters edge.

Honestly, as someone from the UK, the thought would never enter my mind why there would be a no swimming sign there at a Disney resort. I definitely wouldn't expect it to be because of alligators. They should definitely have a sign warning foreign guests of the dangers, because they're most likely completely ignorant of them.

 

[TheCochese]

Hey parents watch your damn kids or don't have them in the first place.

I hope you get banned.

 

[Zackat]

Considering the kid's size, location, and time of day, there's nothing particularly strange about this, just extremely unfortunate. A lot of bad things just came together at the wrong time.

Gators will totally go after something of that size if it's at night and they're in the water.

Yeah strange wasn't the right word. More meant that this is just such a rare occurrence. The confluence of events that came together for this to happen is just heartbreaking.

 

[DuffDry]

The kid didn't go swimming, he was attacked at the waters edge.

Honestly, as someone from the UK, the thought would never enter my mind why their would be a no swimming sign there at a Disney resort. I definitely wouldn't expect it to be because of alligators. They should definitely have a sign warning your foreign guests of the dangers, because they're most likely completely ignorant of them.

Disney doesn't want you in that water for a combination of reasons, ranging from dangerous insects to poisonous snakes to gators to flesh-eating bacteria. They're also all about keeping up a "Disney" appearance, so being explicit on things wouldn't mesh with their vision, as absurd as that may sound. Hindsight is playing into a lot of the backlash here. This has never been a problem before, because gators are usually not up to the task of hunting humans. This is because of our size and the forethought to avoid water at night. And water's edge isn't exactly reflecting the reality that the child was apparently up to a foot underwater. For 2 years old that's substantial.

 

[msdstc]

The amount of ignorance in this thread is troubling.

 

[SoRuffShoNuff]

So you're going to ignore the sign and go swimming? come on, common sense.

I haven't seen a single bit of information that said someone was swimming in that water. Could you please point me in that direction.

 

[AkumaNiko]

The kid didn't go swimming, he was attacked at the waters edge.

Honestly, as someone from the UK, the thought would never enter my mind why there would be a no swimming sign there at a Disney resort. I definitely wouldn't expect it to be because of alligators. They should definitely have a sign warning foreign guests of the dangers, because they're most likely completely ignorant of them.

define waters edge, because the police said he was in the water.

 

[Jenov]

Poor baby Lounge chairs and white sandy beaches right next to a body of water is misleading. They need to remove the beaches all together, and definitely post warnings about alligators. I think Disney will be found negligent over this incident. It's a small relief that at least the boy was not eaten, and they recovered his body. Very sad.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Disney doesn't want you in that water for a combination of reasons, ranging from dangerous insects to poisonous snakes to gators to flesh-eating bacteria. They're also all about keeping up a "Disney" appearance, so being explicit on things wouldn't mesh with their vision, as absurd as that may sound. Hindsight is playing into a lot of the backlash here. This has never been a problem before, because gators are usually not up to the task of hunting humans. This is because of their size and the forethought to avoid water at night. And water's edge isn't exactly reflecting the reality that the child was apparently up to a foot underwater. For 2 years old that's substantial.

A no swimming signs means absolutely nothing to me though. They have no swimming signs at fountains and ponds where I'm from, and it doesn't imply danger to me.

I'm sure this is a freak accident, but Disney could have been a lot more forthright about the dangers near the water. There should have been a sign such as "Danger: Keep clear of water!" sign with an image of a croc.

You're right though, it's all hindsight and what ifs, but that's what usually happens after an incident like this as people are looking for ways to avoid it in the future. It's a terrible thing that's happened.

define waters edge, because the police said he was in the water.

Was he swimming? Or did he have his feet in the water on the "beach".

 

[LostCaress]

They may have actually caught the alligator responsible, they have to compare things like bite marks to the five they pulled out and euthanized..

They have to be euthanized in order to search them for the body

This is a minor point in face of such tragedy, but the alligators were not euthanized, they were killed.

 

[boredofcanada]

The amount of ignorance in this thread is troubling.

Outside of the prick that blamed the parents, I don't think people are being ignorant. Just misinformed about the reality of Florida ( it's a huge swamp infested with gators ). That's probably something Disney and the state of Florida need to take a look at.

Side note: Don't ever go to Shark Valley in Miami. It's an 18 mile bike ride in the Everglades, and the gators are loose and right next to you the whole time.

 

[tcrunch]

A no swimming signs means absolutely nothing to me though. They have no swimming signs at fountains and ponds where I'm from, and it doesn't imply danger to me.

I'm sure this is a freak accident, but Disney could have been a lot more forthright about the dangers near the water. There should have been a sign such as "Danger: Keep clear of water!" sign with an image of a croc.

You're right though, it's all hindsight and what ifs, but that's what usually happens after an incident like this as people are looking for ways to avoid it in the future. It's a terrible thing that's happened.

This is what one of the nearby hotels (Hyatt) outside the Disney campus has:

It's perfectly reasonable unless you're afraid of ruining your funtime fantasy-land image.

 

[Tom Nook]

If its unrealistic then they shouldnt have the freaking beach in the first place. Disney is going to get demolished in court (well, theyll probably settle)

I can see that happening after all it's said and done.

As for the signage, it needs to be clear for the patrons. "No Swimming" seems very vague. A sign like this would be more clear:

No Swimming
Gator Sighted.

 

[Wickerbasket]

This is what one of the nearby hotels (Hyatt) outside the Disney campus has:

It's perfectly reasonable unless you're afraid of ruining your funtime fantasy-land image.

Yeah, something like that would have been much more clear. There's no misinterpreting that sign.

 

[Slayer-33]

This is what one of the nearby hotels (Hyatt) outside the Disney campus has:

It's perfectly reasonable unless you're afraid of ruining your funtime fantasy-land image.

Gotta love how non-chalant these signs are. No red or yellow hazard colors, it's like here's your lacoste shirt logo sign brehs.

Still not up to what I would consider appropriate standards of attention and immediacy of danger, specially for infants.

 

[Somnia]

Was he swimming? Or did he have his feet in the water on the "beach".

Police said he was roughly a foot into the water, which for a 2 year old would be a decent way up on him. Maybe not full on swimming but also not just feet in the water.

 

[3N16MA]

The average person visiting Florida knows full well that the place is full of gators. That being said, visiting Disney is not the same as visiting a swamp in the middle of nowhere Florida or some random lake.

There is a detachment from the rest of the state when you're in the confines of Disney World. Many people have no clue that gators can be found in bodies of water within Disney. It's a maintained and guarded park that takes measures to make sure its guests are safe.

It is silly to think everyone knows that gators can be found within Disney's private bodies of water.

 

[sarcastor]

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/child-dra...t-florida-104853646--abc-news-topstories.html

Disney has a "very proactive program" of routinely removing alligators that pose a threat, Nick Wiley (executive director of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation) said. The company is in constant contact with the FWC to remove alligators, he added.

There are no warning signs of gators in the area, but there are notices posted against swimming in the man-made lake. Disney will look into all issues concerning the signage, Wiley said.

not sure how accurate this reporting is, but why the fuck is there no gator warning signs?

 

[tcrunch]

This is a minor point in face of such tragedy, but the alligators were not euthanized, they were killed.

Euthanize is the valid terminology used by the FWC.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

This is what one of the nearby hotels (Hyatt) outside the Disney campus has:

It's perfectly reasonable unless you're afraid of ruining your funtime fantasy-land image.

This is all I've been saying. This sign yields a different reaction than a simple "no swimming" which in and of itself doesn't suppose danger (simply a safety request).

 

[DuffDry]

A no swimming signs means absolutely nothing to me though. They have no swimming signs at fountains and ponds where I'm from, and it doesn't imply danger to me.

I'm sure this is a freak accident, but Disney could have been a lot more forthright about the dangers near the water. There should have been a sign such as "Danger: Keep clear of water!" sign with an image of a croc.

You're right though, it's all hindsight and what ifs, but that's what usually happens after an incident like this as people are looking for ways to avoid it in the future. It's a terrible thing that's happened.

My wife and I have been discussing this heavily since it happened, as we're pretty big fans of the parks and have lived 30 minutes from Florida our entire lives, basically sharing the ecosystem and prevalence of gators. They're everywhere, but that's usually not a problem. In fact, a water moccasin is WAAAY more cause for concern than any gator. When she told me what happened, I was like "Dear God.." but none of it didn't make sense.

Disney has this artful approach to constructing facades that has finally culminated into a tragic freak accident. They're known for taking this swamp and turning into whatever they want it to be, but that doesn't fully eliminate the swamp. So you have these beaches made right up to a freshwater lake teeming with far more than just gators. Combine this facade with the (acceptable) ignorance of someone not from that area, the time of day, the size of the child, and the level the child is submerged, you get this one in a million scenario that just sucks. Blame (on either side) doesn't even begin to cover this event, it's too multifaceted for that.

But this does probably serve as an eye-opener for Disney, who is so committed to this ultimate dedication to constructing fantasy environments from very real ecosystems that proved so effective that it leads to a tourist probably thinking his son was perfectly safe. Combine that with their dedication to subtlety in obligations for safety (a simple, non-threatening "no swimming" sign instead of a more valuable and explicit sign that "ruins the magic"). It's certainly worth thinking about.

 

[ColdPizza]

Ugh. What a nightmare. Just from what I've seen I think Disney seems pretty negligent here and might be paying this family a lot of money.

 

[Slayer-33]

The average person visiting Florida knows full well that the place is full of gators. That being said, visiting Disney is not the same as visiting a swamp in the middle of nowhere Florida or some random lake.

There is a detachment from the rest of the state when you're in the confines of Disney World. Many people have no clue that gators can be found in bodies of water within Disney. It's a maintained and guarded park that takes measures to make sure its guests are safe.

It is silly to think everyone knows that gators can be found within Disney's private bodies of water.

Well said, all of it.

 

[msdstc]

A no swimming signs means absolutely nothing to me though. They have no swimming signs at fountains and ponds where I'm from, and it doesn't imply danger to me.

I'm sure this is a freak accident, but Disney could have been a lot more forthright about the dangers near the water. There should have been a sign such as "Danger: Keep clear of water!" sign with an image of a croc.

You're right though, it's all hindsight and what ifs, but that's what usually happens after an incident like this as people are looking for ways to avoid it in the future. It's a terrible thing that's happened.


Was he swimming? Or did he have his feet in the water on the "beach".

From everything I've heard, he was ankle deep, which isn't swimming btw. The no swimming sign is NOT sufficient IMO if there is a serious threat of gators in those ponds. If I saw a simple no swimming sign I wouldn't swim, because I'm not much of a swimmer, however I would think it was more there for the sake of disney not needing a life guard at every spot imaginable to avoid liability.

Outside of the prick that blamed the parents, I don't think people are being ignorant. Just misinformed about the reality of Florida ( it's a huge swamp infested with gators ). That's probably something Disney and the state of Florida need to take a look at.

Side note: Don't ever go to Shark Valley in Miami. It's an 18 mile bike ride in the Everglades, and the gators are loose and right next to you the whole time.

The ignorance comes in the following forms

1. assuming that a family on vacation would be aware of JUST how bad the gator population really is in the south. The majority of the people at these parks are tourists, and also on vacation.

2. that a no swimming sign is sufficient- first off the kid wasn't swimming according to what I've heard in most reports. Most say he was ankle deep. The other misinformation is that the parents were over at a pool and the child wandered off. From what I've read the father fought as best he could with the gator, but the gator eventually was able to escape.

3. Thinking that it's that simple to have a kid and be 100% aware of what they're doing at all times. They were at disney! The happiest place on earth... the park has a policy of doing everything possible of not pronouncing people dead on property. It has a reputation of being overwhelmingly safe. The parents were in relax mode most likely and a bad thing happened.

There is far from only one person blaming the parents right now in this thread and everywhere else. I can't even imagine the suffering they're going through right now and people have the nerve to pile on them for it.

 

[Particle Physicist]

It was 9pm at night. They don't allow swimming so there is no need for lifeguards.

This is the sign for no swimming so Disey is fault for these, but I mean letting your 2 year old wade in a swamp isn't a good idea at night. What reason would you have to let your 2 year old go into a swamp at night?

I'm from Florida. That is not what a swamp looks like. That looks like a normal fucking beach.

This is 100% Disney's fault. Look how small that fucking sign is. It only states no swimming. No warnings about alligators or being near the water especially at night. No one being vigilant, watching out for people near the beach, especially at night at a resort that fucking caters to kids. No excuse.

 

[Bread]

It was 9pm at night. They don't allow swimming so there is no need for lifeguards.

This is the sign for no swimming so Disey is fault for these, but I mean letting your 2 year old wade in a swamp isn't a good idea at night. What reason would you have to let your 2 year old go into a swamp at night?

Man, what is Disney thinking building a beach on a pond that alligators will inhabit. Obviously kids will be very close to the water.

 

[rinse82]

Maybe don't build a faux beach if you don't want people acting like they're at a beach? (And the poor kid was hardly doing that)

The justification by some in this thread is mind boggling

 

[PackerinMN]

Police said he was roughly a foot into the water, which for a 2 year old would be a decent way up on him. Maybe not full on swimming but also not just feet in the water.

1 foot in doesn't have to mean depth. Could be 2 inches of water 1 foot from the beach.

 

[Reminiscent]

At least they just recovered the kid's body.

That stops this...
Stranger: "Oh, your kid died?"
Parents: "Yeah he was eaten by an Alligator"

 

[Nipo]

The fact this has happened once in the 20+ years of the hotel tells me the signage is enough. It was a tragic accident but people wanting to label everything that might be dangerous are how we end up with (don't leaning over the edge) signs at the Grand Canyon.

 

[msdstc]

I'm from Florida. That is not what a swamp looks like. That looks like a normal fucking beach.

This is 100% Disney's fault. Look how small that fucking sign is. It only states no swimming. No warnings about alligators or being near the water especially at night. No one being vigilant, watching out for people near the beach, especially at night at a resort that fucking caters to kids. No excuse.

Not to mention it was at night, making the signage even less visible.

1 foot in doesn't have to mean depth. Could be 2 inches of water 1 foot from the beach.

Police just said he was ankle deep. He was a rulers length from the sand, his feet probably just barely submerged . As a parent on vacation in disney... why WOULD you be nervous of that?

 

[msdstc]

The fact this has happened once in the 20+ years of the hotel tells me the signage is enough. It was a tragic accident but people wanting to label everything that might be dangerous are how we end up with (don't leaning over the edge) signs at the Grand Canyon.

I disagree. As it is Alligator attacks are rare. As I said a few posts up, I frequent these parks and on more than one occasion I've seen people swimming in these waters. on top of that they rent paddle boats out to people.

 

[Nipo]

Man, what is Disney thinking building a beach on a pond that alligators will inhabit. Obviously kids will be very close to the water.

If it is a body of water in FL it probably had alligators. Maybe indoor pools and splash mountain are safe.

 

[msdstc]

Maybe don't build a faux beach if you don't want people acting like they're at a beach? (And the poor kid was hardly doing that)

The justification by some in this thread is mind boggling

One of the things that's so troubling to me is that a lot of the backlash against the parents is victim blaming because of the "cult of disney". Disney fans are wildly protective fanboys of the park and think they can do no wrong. I recently became aware of the "theme park wars", which aren't much different from "console wars", and honestly the blind victim blaming here is partially a result of that. Very sad.

 

[Wickerbasket]

If it is a body of water in FL it probably had alligators. Maybe indoor pools and splash mountain are safe.

Maybe they should have some sort of sign to inform their guests of that.

 

[boredofcanada]

The fact this has happened once in the 20+ years of the hotel tells me the signage is enough. It was a tragic accident but people wanting to label everything that might be dangerous are how we end up with (don't leaning over the edge) signs at the Grand Canyon.

They don't even have those signs at the Grand Canyon. Just "danger". I was there a few months ago. It was kind of shocking tbh ( and people fall over the edge every year)

 

[Bread]

If it is a body of water in FL it probably had alligators. Maybe indoor pools and splash mountain are safe.

Yes, so maybe they shouldn't be luring people into a false sense of security by pretending it's a beach.

 

[Nipo]

I disagree. As it is Alligator attacks are rare. As I said a few posts up, I frequent these parks and on more than one occasion I've seen people swimming in these waters. on top of that they rent paddle boats out to people.

Yea. We have a time share at that hotel I've gone fishing in that lagoon before. I still think Having a ton of precautions for low probability events is pointless. If they really want to do something add "alligators" after no swimming. Somee people saying they need to get rid of the beach or put a Barriere on other sites are over reacting, which always happens after a tragedy.

 

[Particle Physicist]

They don't even have those signs at the Grand Canyon. Just "danger". I was there a few months ago. It was kind of shocking tbh ( and people fall over the edge every year)

The danger at Grand Canyon is as bit obvious. The danger of alligators in the water at a resort that caters to children is not as obvious.

 

[RoyalFool]

If it is a body of water in FL it probably had alligators. Maybe indoor pools and splash mountain are safe.

Your kidding right? I swear to god I saw a fucking bear and a fox once there. Disney need to sort this shit out asap

 

[Blader]

Man, what is Disney thinking building a beach on a pond that alligators will inhabit. Obviously kids will be very close to the water.

From what I've heard since this news hit, alligators will inhabit basically any body of water in Florida.

 

[Nipo]

Yes, so maybe they shouldn't be luring people into a false sense of security by pretending it's a beach.

Yea they probably build golf courses around them either. We saw one on Disney's magnolia golf course a while ago. Being surprised by alligators in FL is like being surprised by poisonous animals in Australia.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Police just said he was ankle deep. He was a rulers length from the sand, his feet probably just barely submerged . As a parent on vacation in disney... why WOULD you be nervous of that?

Because gators aren't sharks and can walk on land?

Yes, so maybe they shouldn't be luring people into a false sense of security by pretending it's a beach.

How is it a false sense of security if it says to not go in the water? That makes no sense.

 

[msdstc]

Yea. We have a time share at that hotel I've gone fishing in that lagoon before. I still think Having a ton of precautions for low probability events is pointless. If they really want to do something add "alligators" after no swimming. Somee people saying they need to get rid of the beach or put a Barriere on other sites are over reacting, which always happens after a tragedy.

The problem here is that if you want to have that beachside they should fence off the water or do something to make it more secure. They have this nice alluring area that screams "lets go swimming!"... it's a relaxing beachside with the water mere feet away. You can't have something that's designed to make people want to dip their feet, and then expect every guest to see a tiny little sign.

 

[msdstc]

Because gators aren't sharks and can walk on land?

I guess you missed the point of my post then. It's foolish to believe that every tourist who goes down there is aware that there are gators in those waters. I've talked to many employees who swear up and down disney has people around the clock clearing those waters of any danger. The average tourist isn't aware that a gator is going to come up to a nice comfy looking beachside and snatch their child away. It's asinine to believe so.

 

[echoshifting]

If it is a body of water in FL it probably had alligators. Maybe indoor pools and splash mountain are safe.

Somebody claimed earlier in the thread they have had gators in Splash Mountain before. Not sure how true that is.

For a good shock, scroll through the thread for the picture of the gator chilling in a stall in one of their bathrooms.

 

[poppabk]

The fact this has happened once in the 20+ years of the hotel tells me the signage is enough. It was a tragic accident but people wanting to label everything that might be dangerous are how we end up with (don't leaning over the edge) signs at the Grand Canyon.

I think there is a need to make people aware of dangers they might not be cognizant of otherwise. Sure something like this is a rare occurrence, but there doesn't seem to be any harm in highlighting the potential danger so people can make informed decisions.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

The problem here is that if you want to have that beachside they should fence off the water or do something to make it more secure. They have this nice alluring area that screams "lets go swimming!"... it's a relaxing beachside with the water mere feet away. You can't have something that's designed to make people want to dip their feet, and then expect every guest to see a tiny little sign.

Your post is kind of all over the place. You can complain the sign wasn't easy enough to be read but I'm not sure how you jump from that to requiring a barrier on all water.

I think there is a need to make people aware of dangers they might not be cognizant of otherwise. Sure something like this is a rare occurrence, but there doesn't seem to be any harm in highlighting the potential danger so people can make informed decisions.

Most people aren't cognizant of the dangers of leaning over the edge of incredibly tall cliffs?

 

[msdstc]

Your post is kind of all over the place. You can complain the sign wasn't easy enough to be read but I'm not sure how you jump from that to requiring a barrier on all water.

on all water? I said if you're going to build something that looks safe and accessible then you're damn right make it clear it's actually NOT that safe. Who is to say the kid wouldn't have been grabbed on land? He was a foot off the sand. What if his feet had never touched the water? you said it yourself, gators can come on land... the sign says nothing about walking near the water... yet would you feel safe letting a child walk near it knowing there were gators?

 

[Particle Physicist]

Because gators aren't sharks and can walk on land?



How is it a false sense of security if it says to not go in the water? That makes no sense.

Because the sign didn't say 'alligators' or 'do not go near the water' or 'no wading.' It said 'no swimming' with no hints of anything else. Not everyone who visits a world renowned children's resort knows about alligators in all lakes in Florida. Do any of you criticizing the parents have kids of your own?