Well, to be fair to them, the victim blaming going on this thread is very disturbing, regardless of whether or not the story is true.
EDIT: fixed the post up a bit
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Gay World Cup fan left with brain injury after brutal attack
- Thread starter KevinKeene
- Start date
Well, to be fair to them, the victim blaming going on this thread is very disturbing, regardless of whether or not the story is true.
EDIT: fixed the post up a bit
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
Yeah, I am in no way condoning making excuses for beating up a gay person. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy in their post.
Shooting off about something before at least attempting to verify if it is true in the first place, is one of the dumber qualities of modern society. It is especially magnified on the internet.
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SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
TIL Russia is "european".
//DEVIL//
Member
Try to understand that being gay is not socially accepted more than 70% of the countries . Accept that . Just because you live in a country that support it doesn't mean it's like that all over the world and that the country that doesn't support it are wrong.
This is a world cup. The word world and 70% of them not supporting gay community means you only want it in the country that support it. Which if even it was more than 30% of the world it's no longer called world cup and again FIFA has nothing to do with politics and what goes in X countries culture.
The only way I see the FIFA is involved is for example in world cup 2022 in Qatar if Israel gets qualified and they don't want to attend in fear of Muslims or whatever. Then it make sense and FIFA should cancel Qatar as a host in fear of the players lives. But FIFA will not interfer in what happened to a tourist who went against that country's culture .
As for your claim I am not netueral to the gay victim . What did you want me to say aside from I hope he is ok and doesn't deserve what happen to him ? I should say he should do whatever and show this gayness and be proud of it ? Fuck no I won't because he shouldn't . He should be more aware if that country is supportive or not .
Let me tell you another example. In Saudi Arabia . During Ramadan . The Canadian embassy sends an email every Ramadan to all the staffers ( regardless of their religion ) not to fucking drink or eat in public during fasting hours . And they are not responsible in regards of the actions that might be taken against them .
Why non Muslims have to follow this ? Because it's the fucking country culture .
Grow up and live with it. Stop acting like it's nornal to be gay and everyone should support gay community. Most of the people in many many countries are even against it . Let alone be neutral to it.
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SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
They couldn't pay me to travel to Russia since I don't want to die right now...and I'm not even gay.
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
lol
It would still be called the world cup
iBuzzati
Member
Okay, if you don't subscribe to continental definitions (the majority of Russians live in what geographers call the "European part" of Russia), where does Eastern Europe start? The moment you step into Ukraine? Are Ukrainians more European than Russians?
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You're just repeating the same arguments. There's nothing new in this post.
I'm not arguing about homophobia in Russia (or the rest of the world for that matter) since that's a different discussion. My point is that we know Russia is unwelcoming to gays so they shouldn't be allowed to host the World Cup. Pretty foolish to compare the World Cup to an embassy; these are not at all comparable. FIFA can decide which country gets to host the World Cup, for one.
As for the rest of your post, it's so homophobic that there's nothing else for me to say.
FIFA advertises the world cup as an event that can happen anywhere, not just first world Western nations
TIL all non first world western nations are homophobic
Most are. Welcome to reality.
it isn't logical at all. How the hell is FIFA going to keep safe all the tourists that travel for the world cup? At some point you have to make smart decisions for yourself.
most =/= all
As zumphry pointed out, no one is asking for perfect security, that's a strawman. And speaking of smart decisions, knowing Russia is so homophobic, maybe hosting the World Cup in another country that's more welcoming to gays would be better for the security of attendees.
EDIT: made a few minor fixes
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SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
I honestly thought it was its own weird commie country with its own morals/ideals.
In the Americas pretty much just Canada and the USA are ok with homosexual people. In Mexico you can't even show a same sex kiss before it is protested and the story changed to not promote "gay agendas". In Brazil you have people dragged from their house , killed and hell they record the whole thing without them even being charged. The rest of the world is pretty fucked in many ways as well not just omg homophobes I think that was what he was trying to say anyway.
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SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
A person that values his well being avoids going to hateful places. While we are at it fuck soccer, anybody that knows FIFA knows they don't give a shit about anything but $$$$$. I mean their next fifa is on a literal slave country. Relying on corporations to keep you safe in shitholes when they NEVER had said they would is a sure way to kick the bucket soon.
So what should we say "those Russian guys are wrong"? Yes Russia is wrong on their stance on LGBT. Does that fix the issue?
As you said, we don't know the whole story. But will it still be victim blaming if there was PDA? Even then the fault is still of Russia's lack of laws to protect LGBT people.
The couple were not doing anything wrong, but some Russian people may think differently and the law won't protect gay people.
Maybe because I come from a country where gay people are still killed, I never PDA here or in any other country.
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
Yes.
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SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
People get murdered all the time in Russia for no reason. When is Putin gonna do something about it?
lol just say you don't care about gay people and be on your way
Your take on victim blaming isn't fresh; they're all just as disgusting. Do you really think gay people don't value their well-being? If a hypothetical gay man suffered brain damage from a hate crime, you don't think he'd care about it? It's telling that in an assault scenario you choose to insult the victim.
The story is unverified, let's keep that in mind. I know I made the mistake of assuming it was real but it was pointed out earlier in the thread that it was wrong.
If you want to have a discussion about homophobia in Russia or just homophobia in general then I would suggest starting a new thread because that would be a much more extensive topic and beyond the scope of this one.
By the way, PDA between a gay couple doesn't justify their assault or victim blaming.
Than you are right back to what I said earlier, if that is your metric for a country holding the world cup, than you are essentially banning the world cup from being held in most places around the world. Tourists safety is not really a priority for FIFA.
Russia's attitudes towards homosexuals is the norm in most places around the world.
Greedings
Member
Indeed, Russian gay people are incredibly brave. They know the risks. They've seen what's happened to their friends. They know what could happen to them.
They are taking responsibility for it though.
Snoopycat
Banned
"Wow, so it's because victim blaming that bigots will attack gay people?"
What are you on about man? Do you not understand I was calling out the poster for blaming the victims of the attack and not the bigots? It's one sentence guy,
I say it again but it probably won't do no good. People have the right to live their lives and walk their paths in peace. If you cannot understand something as simple and basic as that then I don't know what to say to you.
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SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Not these guys specifically apparently.
He's brain damaged now so ??? Also all crimes are hateful in nature for all I know people could mug me one day outside of my sexuality. I won't be that dude sorry.
If its an insult having common sense of human nature and living in ones own world you are gonna have a very hard life yourself. Stop taking everything as an insult we are having a discussion and all the gay/bi people I know, KNOW where not to go so I don't know what to tell you.
Getting assaulted for no reason is something I'd expect from a random person regardless the best we can do is be in places where this is not the norm...
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Crimes are hateful in nature but not all crimes are hate crimes. Hope this helps.
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SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Murder is murder. The reasons don't matter. I don't think there is a more extreme way of showing hate IMO.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
As with all issues of violence and outrage over it, I would like to ask what anyone has in mind in terms of suggestions to assure the safety of everyone? When it comes to something like police brutality, I can understand that. Better training, better institutional punishments for misbehavior, etc. But when it comes to massive public gatherings? What exactly do you expect them to do? Have you ever been in a major stadium? Have you ever seen 10,000+ people at once? How on earth can you predict and prevent 3-5 people from beating up someone they don't like? If you have guards everywhere you might spot it from like 100 feet away, but could they wade through a crowd in time?
Porcelain Veins
Neo Member
and ban video games as well, for all the racism in online games.
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SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Feelings are the reason they invented that law in the first place! lol
And yet, the fact remains that not every crime is a hate crime. That's not a 'gotcha'.
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MayauMiao
Member
I wonder how worse it will get for World Cup 2022, which will be held in Qatar.
And I will say it again, we all deserve peace, but if you can't understand that some places decided to not have peace for certain people, those places are still wrong but if that certain people decide to go, then their security is not guaranteed.
But telling you that probably does no good, are you American? Most of them think their laws and rules apply worldwide.
Snoopycat
Banned
Man, I'm gonna be generous and assume that English isn't your first language and you don't understand what is being said, because otherwise you sound like a hateful moron who has spent most of his time in this thread blaming the victims (and FIFA ) for having the nerve to go watch a football match.
yeah and the laws of a country are always morally justified
I hope they find some support groups in Russia. There are some in St Petersburg I know of. I think people also have to be reminded that homosexuality was decriminalised in Russia in 1993.
Human rights if and only if you're "normal." Normal... It's right and normal if everyone does it. I'm so thankful things have not worked that way. Woman, men gay/straight/ etc.. human beings have progressed because they have challenged those very same ideas.
You're better off just replying with "Gay people are not normal" and call it a day. None of this "FIFA has nothing to do with it" nonsense just because you support the actions against people you believe are not normal.
Human rights if and only if you're "normal." Normal... It's right and normal if everyone does it. I'm so thankful things have not worked that way. Woman, men gay/straight/ etc.. human beings have progressed because they have challenged those very same ideas.
You're better off just replying with "Gay people are not normal" and call it a day. None of this "FIFA has nothing to do with it" nonsense just because you support the actions against people you believe are not normal.
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TwiztidElf
Member
never mind. it's already been covered.
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Maybe, just maybe, gay people(especially gay football fans) aren't as numerous as we think and are therefore not the only thing FIFA considers while picking the host of a World Cup?
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They should pick these places as representatives and if these countries do not share the philosophy of the FIFA and what they are trying to say than they should not be able to host these events. It is as simple as that. Russia and Qatar should have never gotten these World Cups to begin with.
Yeah, but then you'd have the world cups in same 5-10 countries over and over.
No it would be much more places but even so if you want to "preach" or if you stand by these philosophies of freedom equality etc then you should be strict about it. And even if you are a bit lax. there is NO place worse than Qatar IMO.
Sienna Fuegonasus
Neo Member
What about aggressive football fans? I thought that football culture and footlball hooliganism are big parts of it. I'm not saying that what happened is ok, it's totally not ok, it's terrifying. But there's something inside the football culture that should be changed.
manfestival
Member
I feel like there are too many unrealistic world views going on. Like it is good to want the betterment of man kind but it is also a disservice to purposely blind yourself to the realities of the world in hopes of the betterment of mankind.
Unfortunately in this situation the victim is not absolved of their self responsibility. It is not victim blaming(even though it does happen and even victim shaming) in the end, we all know that the aggressors are the problem. Being in South America for some time really taught me so much about self responsibility. Being in the states most of my life really enabled me to be really lax on many things and even entitled. Being outside of it is a completely different ball park.
Unfortunately in this situation the victim is not absolved of their self responsibility. It is not victim blaming(even though it does happen and even victim shaming) in the end, we all know that the aggressors are the problem. Being in South America for some time really taught me so much about self responsibility. Being in the states most of my life really enabled me to be really lax on many things and even entitled. Being outside of it is a completely different ball park.
And how is that FIFA's problem?
Greedings
Member
Fewer countries they can elicit bribes from?
Hey, this is like the first good point anyone's made hahaha
I thought that was common knowledge. lul
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
Russia bought their spot it was a huge scandal.
A lot of higher ups in fifa where fired.
Russia just proofs how backwards they are anyway. So enjoy paying to gain bad rep.