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[DR3AM]

they should make a playlist without shotguns

 

[Gr1mLock]

Yea because instagib range is the only thing that matters with the gnasher. The gnasher has far superior range than the SOS, you can chip them and hard aim down the sights from well outside their range and still down them in 2, 3 shots if you are really far away. The gnasher has far better range than the SOS. And implying that wall bouncing is required for the gnasher is laughable.

So is this before or after they discharge their Sos shot and roll away to safety? Wall bouncing is a staple of closing distance to get to optimal range and avoid damage. To suggest it ISNT required to be a good player is laughable.

 

[FStop7]

I don't even know which map would be good for Beast on Insane.

And I have trouble destroying wires. Do I just go ticker and blow everything up?

I go wild ticker at first because they can chew through wires pretty quickly. Then I respawn as a regular ticker and blow up the rest of the wire and hopefully take a couple of those wretched humans down with me.

 

[JB1981]

So is this before or after they discharge their Sos shot and roll away to safety? Wall bouncing is a staple of closing distance to get to optimal range and avoid damage. To suggest it ISNT required to be a good player is laughable.

Umm what he said was wall-bouncing isn't required to be successful with the gnahser, not that wall-bouncing didn't take skill

 

[-PXG-]

Is wall bouncing even possible using the default control scheme ??

Also re: SP campaign I'm a bit annoyed that power weapon ammo doesn't refill at ammo dumps. I loved rocking 24 bullets with my sniper rifle in game 1 and 2. Why did they change this, balance? Epic should also patch in a no-revive mode for campaign or make it one of the mutators in arcade mode

Yes...

 

[Adam Blade]

I don't even know which map would be good for Beast on Insane.

And I have trouble destroying wires. Do I just go ticker and blow everything up?

Are you playing now?

 

[dmg04]

my bad for bouncing out earlier, guys. Had my power go out for a little bit

 

[The Antitype]

Last night was finally the first time I played with my whole Gears 3 team, and as expected, people were getting torn up. Played some King of the Hill matches, and sometimes we were getting disappointed when we didn't give the other team 150-0 shutouts. Best of all was getting multiple triples with the Gnasher on Sawed-Off users and watching them quit the next match.

And man oh man - the SOS complaints on the last page, especially from The Antitype. So many posts that I'm not even going to bother quoting them.

Look, it's annoying to get shot by the gun, yes. But if all you're going to do is bitch bitch bitch, then nothing is going to change, you're still going to get killed by it.

The Gnasher, and any rifle will put down a SOS rusher at distance/in the open, and if he's hiding behind cover? Flush him out with any grenade. Take the corner wide and soften him up with bullets. Get a teammate to help flush him out from another direction. Mark the guy so that even if you're playing with randoms, they're aware and they'll shoot him too. Get in close and then go back to fake him out to shoot, then light him up as he does the run of shame. And etcetera, etcetera, etcereta.

The first step is to know he's there. Second step if you didn't already know is that the gun has lights all around the base and front of it so you know it's a SOS. Thirdly, recognize the character so that even if you see the bastard from a distance, you spot him and keep him red and annoyed. Fourthly, learn the distance - it's probably more than you think, so keep him at a longer distance than you think and put him down in 2-3 Gnasher shots, then pound him in the face/rip his arm off and beat him with it for trying to get you with the gun.

Do I get mad when I get killed by it? Sure. But the few times I actually get killed by it is when I'm killing others and my teammates didn't watch him and he gets me in my back, which of course I would have been dead with a Gnasher or chainsaw anyways. M favorite thing to use against SOS guys is the fake, because you know they feel stupid when they miss and are frantically running while I'm damaging them, to the point where they jam their reload. For corner campers especially, as soon as they come out of the corner, immediately shoot while walking backwards - if it's clean, he WILL go down in the next shot, third shot tops. Bonus points for when his screen is red and he shoots out of fear and you laugh at his dumbass.

Stop bitching and play smarter. The gun has so many downsides to its one-shot gib, and you're crazy if it's worth being a pickup weapon. And yes The Antitype - a weapon that can put people down in three regular shots, two super-fast perfect reload shots and headshot in two perfect reload shots, from anywhere in the map, including while holding a meatshield, is more than worthy of being a map pickup weapon.

You make a lot of good points.

Unfortunately, like most of the mechanics in GoW, the tactics you describe generally work half the time.

It's a coin-flip.

I've gunned down people at range with the gnasher and Lancer before they get the SOS shot off, as described. The problem is, the exact same scenario can repeat, IN THE SAME GAME, and the outcome will be completely different (and yes, I know the visual cues of a confirmed hit vs a miss).

Learning to work around a no-skill-necessary instagib weapon in Gears of War is like trying to learn the multiplication tables if they changed every hour. Right now 6x4 is 24. But in an hour? Could be 63. Who knows.

To suggest a weapon that kills you in one shot, requires next to no skill in application (aiming? strafing? wall bouncing?) and has a greater gib range than the gun that is supposed to have better range than it is doesn't need a nerf is ridiculous. All i want is for people who have no concept of competitive game balance is to stop posting because its sickening and pretty unwarranted.

Is there a way to favorite posts? Cause this is perfect.

 

[Gr1mLock]

Umm what he said was wall-bouncing isn't required to be successful with the gnahser, not that wall-bouncing didn't take skill

Wallbouncing is synonymous with CQC play in gears and has been since the first game. Whats synonymous with CQC in gears? The gnasher. Sure it isnt REQUIRED just like footsies and parrying arent required to win in SF but if your opponents have that annoying habbit of 'moving' while shooting sometimes it comes in handy to know how to close the distance effectively.

 

[2th]

I hope you're right PXG, I really do. And yeah, I've been in a few games with devs and asked them their thoughts on OSP, all of them thought it was a cool idea, nothing to lose from it.

I do remember Joe Graf saying a Mercenary playlist was redundant though, can't remember exactly what his reasons were... Hope some influential members of the team persuade him about the OSP.

The problem with an OSP is what happened in Gears 2. The more playlists you have the more you segment the community. The smaller the number of playlists the more people you have playing together and thus queue times are smaller.

 

[kaizoku]

You cant determine if a weapon is offensive or defensive that is a player variable. Numbers. Facts. Sos has a greater kill range than the gnasher. Thats a fact. It requires no aiming because its horizontal spread (in addition to greater forward range than the gnasher) is ridiculously wide that's a fact. You do not need to learn basic gears CQC mobility because of its effective range thats a FACT. I'm not moaning or grumbling. I've used it and I've seen quite of few of my friends most of whom are beasts use it and as it is it is too good. If you account player skill as a variable the weapon gets considerably better. I personally cant use it with a straight face because it just makes me break out into a laugh of how ridiculously easy it is to mow down an entire team with virtually no real effort. Instead of bringing up horde why dont you read what other people are saying or watch the videos which clearly show you this information and consider the facts.

It has a slightly greater instant gib range, not a greater range (aside from width) - and is that really any surprise? Gnasher can do lots of damage from an area where the SOS does nothing.

It's not offensive because if someone comes at me with an SOS they will not kill me if I know what they have. The only thing it has going for it is the instant death and the element of surprise.

I can't even imagine how you'd be killed by it on a regular basis other than if you were playing against it as if it was a gnasher and getting annoyed at the easy gibs.

I'd go as far as to say its the least powerful weapon of all.

edit: granted I may not have run into an extremely skillful SOS user, but given the reload time and how close they have to get, a gnasher user would've killed me anyway most likely and ideally a team mate would avenge my death.

 

[Chorazin]

So, why the hell do they force you out of Casual instead of just raising the level of people you play with? I loved just hitting Casual and BOOM I was in a game.

 

[JB1981]

Wallbouncing is synonymous with CQC play in gears and has been since the first game. Whats synonymous with CQC in gears? The gnasher. Sure it isnt REQUIRED just like footsies and parrying arent required to win in SF but if your opponents have that annoying habbit of 'moving' while shooting sometimes it comes in handy to know how to close the distance effectively.

Honestly I have played Gears for years and wall-bouncing isn't a normal tactic. It is employed by the very hardcore. The majority of players don't even use it. I played for 3 hours today and didn't run into one person who uses the tactic. In fairness I was playing quickmatch so that is probably why lol

 

[MarshMellow96]

People just give the Gnasher a free pass then?

 

[GhostRidah]

Horde Level 40 on Hardcore.

"Hi, we're the grimmest visions of your worst insanity fueled nightmares and we're here to rip your assholes in half with our miscellaneous weapons and/or appendages. Got any coffee?"

How do you even increase the difficulty in horde? I cant seem to get anything but normal.

 

[Risk Breaker]

GG PXG and Edgey.

The SOS is such an inconsistent weapon. I can't wait to stop using the damn thing

Thanks (Edgey here)! I'm kinda sucking lately but playing as a team really helps keeping the frustration down ...

 

[The Antitype]

Just spent an hour and a half or something on Horde and got up to 28. Everyone leaves.
Next time I play its with a GAF crew only.

Didn't even get more then a couple XP bars filled. Man, they are stingy with that stuff if your not in a competitive mode.

Give me a shout, and I'll join up with you. I've hit 50 on Sandbar and Overpass though, so ideally I'd like to never see those maps ever again.

 

[D4Danger]

I'll just add my voice to the "sos is a bunch of bullshit" crowd

it's not so much the weapon, it's the people who are just running at someone while they're shooting them and hoping they get close enough to kill them.

and you know what? it works. running at people and suiciding with the sos is now a strategy that works 80-90% of the time. It's ridiculous.

I wish it was like the chainsaw where you can't use it if you're being shot or something. If I'm using a rifle and somebody is running at me I might as well be using a super soaker.

 

[Adam Blade]

Anyone wanna Horde now?

GT is my username.

 

[skyfinch]

Silverback's kick so much ass. Wish there were more opportunities to use them in career.

 

[LowParry]

I'll just add my voice to the "sos is a bunch of bullshit" crowd

it's not so much the weapon, it's the people who are just running at someone while they're shooting them and hoping they get close enough to kill them.

and you know what? it works. running at people and suiciding with the sos is now a strategy that works 80-90% of the time. It's ridiculous.

I wish it was like the chainsaw where you can't use it if you're being shot or something. If I'm using a rifle and somebody is running at me I might as well be using a super soaker.

On an active reload with the SOS? Quite. The range on it is huge. Without it, those runners die pretty quick against a Lancer or Retro.

 

[Gustav]

Played the game for about 2 hours or so. Got pretty bored with the campaign and hated the exploding glowing enemies. Currently can't even muster up the motivation to play further. Looks like I wasted the 50€

 

[The Antitype]

I'll just add my voice to the "sos is a bunch of bullshit" crowd

it's not so much the weapon, it's the people who are just running at someone while they're shooting them and hoping they get close enough to kill them.

and you know what? it works. running at people and suiciding with the sos is now a strategy that works 80-90% of the time. It's ridiculous.

I wish it was like the chainsaw where you can't use it if you're being shot or something. If I'm using a rifle and somebody is running at me I might as well be using a super soaker.

Yep. 9 out of 10 deaths in GoW3 can be attributed to the SOS. Not power weapons.

Facts. (Kinda).

 

[Gr1mLock]

It has a slightly greater instant gib range, not a greater range (aside from width) - and is that really any surprise? Gnasher can do lots of damage from an area where the SOS does nothing.

It's not offensive because if someone comes at me with an SOS they will not kill me if I know what they have. The only thing it has going for it is the instant death and the element of surprise.

I can't even imagine how you'd be killed by it on a regular basis other than if you were playing against it as if it was a gnasher and getting annoyed at the easy gibs.

I'd go as far as to say its the least powerful weapon of all.

edit: granted I may not have run into an extremely skillful SOS user, but given the reload time and how close they have to get, a gnasher user would've killed me anyway most likely and ideally a team mate would avenge my death.

Its not slight. The distance you're talking about is two shots with the gnasher = down, where one shot from the Sos = death. Its not me talking out of my ass, PxG posted a video a few pages back and I posted a video about it a few pages before that. You can literally walk at a gnasher user and stay in the sweet spot without fear knowing that the only thing he can do is damage you and your odds of missing are maybe 3 out of 10. Obviously its all situational if there is cover involved etc but that is a HUGE advantage. You cannot downplay that.

 

[HawksWinStanley]

I trust (hopefully) that they will rebalance the SOS with TU2. I mean it is getting huge backlash here (which Cliff and much of Epic will hopefully be reading) and pretty much everywhere.

All I ask is that they make it only effective at the melee distance they said it would be. Not this six feet away crap.

 

[kaizoku]

I'll just add my voice to the "sos is a bunch of bullshit" crowd

it's not so much the weapon, it's the people who are just running at someone while they're shooting them and hoping they get close enough to kill them.

and you know what? it works. running at people and suiciding with the sos is now a strategy that works 80-90% of the time. It's ridiculous.

I wish it was like the chainsaw where you can't use it if you're being shot or something. If I'm using a rifle and somebody is running at me I might as well be using a super soaker.

Ah so that must've been what those n00bs were doing when 3 of them were running at me giving me super easy kills. Maybe you had server issues but any of the rifles can down a guy in no time at all.

There did seem to be some games today where hits seemed to have trouble registering and I know they had server issues over the weekend.

Got to Wave 26 of Horde in my first attempt today, so much fun.

 

[The Antitype]

Its not slight. The distance you're talking about is two shots with the gnasher = down, where one shot from the Sos = death. Its not me talking out of my ass, PxG posted a video a few pages back and I posted a video about it a few pages before that. You can literally walk at a gnasher user and stay in the sweet spot without fear knowing that the only thing he can do is damage you and your odds of missing are maybe 3 out of 10. Obviously its all situational if there is cover involved etc but that is a HUGE advantage. You cannot downplay that.

They will.

It's amazing the lengths people will go to rationalize the hype they felt and the money they spent.

And the sad part is they're wasting their righteous indignation because nobody is saying their new favorite game is BAD. There are issues with ONE mode (comp mp), that could easily be fixed. The whole package is still one of the best shooters ever made.

 

[dmg04]

Yep. 9 out of 10 deaths in GoW3 can be attributed to the SOS. Not power weapons.

Facts. (Kinda).

That fact is bullshit.


I get killed by the following;

SOS
Lancer
Retro
Hammer
Grenades
Scortcher
Boomshit
Torque
Postol
Mortar
Mulcher
Sniper
Gnasher


When you think about it, all of the times you're killed From Behind by a SOS, it would have been the same exact outcome if it were a gnasher.




Also; at the 'super soaker' comment
if you're using a retro, no way in hell is the SOS going to get anywhere near you.
Regular lancer, same outcome. if someone is bumrushing you and you're pooring bullets into them, they're going to be stopped in their tracks.
Either you're missing, or you're just blaming your deaths on something to feel better about them.

 

[The Teachinator]

I trust (hopefully) that they will rebalance the SOS with TU2. I mean it is getting huge backlash here (which Cliff and much of Epic will hopefully be reading) and pretty much everywhere.

I'll just chime in and say please do NOT change the SOS. Leave it as is. Jeesh folks learn how to keep your distance? I don't really see what the problem is. I too have been killed quite a bit by the SOS....But I've also done some massive, massive damage with it. haha

 

[The Teachinator]

Played the game for about 2 hours or so. Got pretty bored with the campaign and hated the exploding glowing enemies. Currently can't even muster up the motivation to play further. Looks like I wasted the 50€

Out of curiosity have you played any of the other two games? The narrative requires a small investment once you get to the third title in the series.

 

[The Antitype]

That fact is bullshit.


I get killed by the following;

SOS
Lancer
Retro
Hammer
Grenades
Scortcher
Boomshit
Torque
Postol
Mortar
Mulcher
Sniper
Gnasher


When you think about it, all of the times you're killed From Behind by a SOS, it would have been the same exact outcome if it were a gnasher.

I thought the '(Kinda).' comment made it clear I was joking.

Still, I die via SOS more than any other weapon. By a significant margin. I've actually yet to be killed by a Boomshot, Torque, Hammer or Scorcher in 100 matches or so.

Also; at the 'super soaker' comment
if you're using a retro, no way in hell is the SOS going to get anywhere near you.
Regular lancer, same outcome. if someone is bumrushing you and you're pooring bullets into them, they're going to be stopped in their tracks.
Either you're missing, or you're just blaming your deaths on something to feel better about them.

This is untrue. The mechanics in GoW are a coin-flip. Sometimes I will stop somebody in their tracks with an AR, and other times, they waltz right through. Often, both scenarios will play out within the span of the same match.

And yes, I know a fucking hit when I see one. I'm not missing unless Epic decided to add splashes of blood to missed shots too.

And stopping power is just as much of a coin flip. Sometimes people slow down, sometimes they don't. I know, cause I've run through AR fire without missing a beat, even as my health started (very slowly) decreasing.

Rifle users make short work of the SOS!

Again. Great idea in theory. Coin-flip in practice.

 

[kaizoku]

Its not slight. The distance you're talking about is two shots with the gnasher = down, where one shot from the Sos = death. Its not me talking out of my ass, PxG posted a video a few pages back and I posted a video about it a few pages before that. You can literally walk at a gnasher user and stay in the sweet spot without fear knowing that the only thing he can do is damage you and your odds of missing are maybe 3 out of 10. Obviously its all situational if there is cover involved etc but that is a HUGE advantage. You cannot downplay that.

I fail to see how a weapon having an advantage over the gnasher in that little sweet spot is a big deal? Isn't that the point of the weapon? To be deadlier than the gnasher in close combat but riskier to use? It's not gonna be much good if its instant gib range was the same as the gnashers instant gib range is it? How would you adjust it to make it fair for anyone?

For a long time people have moaned about the shotgun being overpowered in Gears, wall bouncers etc kick ass. I'm not so hot with the shotgun so I've had to put up with this kind of problem since day one. Now the wallbouncers have their own problem to worry about and they don't like it!

Rifle users make short work of the SOS!

 

[LowParry]

I thought the '(Kinda).' comment made it clear I was joking.

Still, I die via SOS more than any other weapon. By a significant margin. I've actually yet to be killed by a Boomshot, Torque, Hammer or Scorcher in 100 matches or so.

I'd hate to have you on my team. lol

 

[Gustav]

Out of curiosity have you played any of the other two games? The narrative requires a small investment once you get to the third title in the series.

I've completed the first one back when it came out. Played quite a bit through the second one in coop. I remember being puked out by some dying big ass worm, or something?

 

[dmg04]

I thought the '(Kinda).' comment made it clear I was joking.

Still, I die via SOS more than any other weapon. By a significant margin. I've actually yet to be killed by a Boomshot, Torque, Hammer or Scorcher in 100 matches or so.

I know, i should have clarified that i wasn't directing the comment towards you, but to a lot of people complaining about it.

I think i'm about to hit 100 games, but yeah. i think i've been killed at least once by every weapon. Random fact; 32 of the 52 TDM games i have played, i've been MVP! I can thank my Gnasher and my Lancer for that

 

[FateBreaker]

I love the campaign/Arcade.
I love Horde 2.0
I love Beast.

Competitive multiplayer, though, I think just has too many flaws. I'm trying to like it, and at times I do, but at other times I feel it's either completely average or has too many glaring problems to become fun. It's OK. But the cooperative modes are the true gems.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

I dont understand this SoS complaint, I really genuinly have not had any problems with it, people are getting into the range of gears 1/2 style gnaser users anyway. That range your gunna die no matter what.

You want to play the "Long game" then have your back to a wall and dont adapt tunnel vision and you should be fine.

The SoS has its place as a wide but shallow AoE Shotgun where the gnasher adopts a larger range but smaller width. I dont see the fault.

 

[The Antitype]

I'd hate to have you on my team. lol

I'd hate to be on my team in this game too.

Just a constant, stream of consciousness rant of sarcasm in your headset the entire match.

 

[kaizoku]

One thing I've noticed about Gears games tonight was that a lot of the time only a few players would stand out and just kick ass, like get as many kills as their team mates combined. Finding that a little strange. Don't think its host advantage either since it's never just one guy who stands out. Maybe the matchmaking is just taking its time to iron players into the right wrinkles or something or maybe its the same guys grabbing the power weapons and doing all the damage.

I'd love to see the stats for the guys moaning about the SOS. I reckon its people who are trying to play the game exactly as they did Gears 2 and they've found the shotgunning mechanic doesn't work as well as it used to. For predominantly rifle users like me nothing's changed except the SOS users are massively easier to take out than gnasher users!

 

[Superimposer]

I'd hate to be on my team in this game too.

Just a constant, stream of consciousness rant of sarcasm in your headset the entire match.

And on my GAF

 

[-PXG-]

GAF customs. I'm hosting.

 

[Proelite]

I am playing in the casual playlist and I have died to Lancer fire more than any other weapon. People are also using the gnasher, horribly, at 10 times the rate of SOS. I can count the number of time that I died to the SOS on one hand.

:shrug

 

[DoomGyver]

I bet this has already been posted, but LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLzJNkM6CLM

The guy makes a really good point.

I can count 6 times now where I was using gnasher L+R and my opponent was using the SOS and he gibbed me while my gnasher didn't even do enough damage to down him. That's with 100% of my pellets hitting him in the chest.

Epic added the SOS in order to help new people get kills, yeah they get kills but experienced players are using the SOS which increases the insta death ratio up quite significantly.. and new players everyone gets bitter when you die in one shot that often. Epic, fix this shit.

The SOS needs to have the same gib range as the gnasher with a larger gib zone, but NOT a gib zone where you don't even have to be facing them in order to gib.

 

[The Antitype]

One thing I've noticed about Gears games tonight was that a lot of the time only a few players would stand out and just kick ass, like get as many kills as their team mates combined. Finding that a little strange. Don't think its host advantage either since it's never just one guy who stands out. Maybe the matchmaking is just taking its time to iron players into the right wrinkles or something or maybe its the same guys grabbing the power weapons and doing all the damage.

I'd love to see the stats for the guys moaning about the SOS. I reckon its people who are trying to play the game exactly as they did Gears 2 and they've found the shotgunning mechanic doesn't work as well as it used to. For predominantly rifle users like me nothing's changed except the SOS users are massively easier to take out than gnasher users!

I'm a predominantly rifle-user, use the shotgun when close-quarters is forced (ie, fighting for a hill, or in tight environments).

1.1 K/D and 2.0 W/L on KOTH

1.4 K/D and 0.8 W/L on TDM

So yeah... average maybe? Below average? Don't really care. My title on MP is 'K/D Indifferent' for a reason.

I really don't understand the notion that a poor mechanic is less poor if you're winning?

And on my GAF

Haha. You amuse me. Is GAF yours?

I am playing in the casual playlist and I have died to Lancer fire more than any other weapon. People are also using the gnasher, horribly, at 10 times the rate of SOS. I can count the number of time that I died to the SOS on one hand.

:shrug

Just wait.

 

[LowParry]

I'd hate to be on my team in this game too.

Just a constant, stream of consciousness rant of sarcasm in your headset the entire match.

Well, the game isn't for everyone. I always find myself checking corners and keeping at range with them. That's how a lot of my deaths came when I first started because I said the very same things you have with the SOS. Like someone suggested before, if the SOS was a weapon pick up rather than a default, I think a lot of people would be much more happier with that change. It'd be Gnasher wars all over again.

 

[Plasmid]

So the best time to back out is when all the ribbons are done? Not before the match loads the next map?

Help?

 

[Risk Breaker]

I dont understand this SoS complaint, I really genuinly have not had any problems with it, people are getting into the range of gears 1/2 style gnaser users anyway. That range your gunna die no matter what.

You want to play the "Long game" then have your back to a wall and dont adapt tunnel vision and you should be fine.

The SoS has its place as a wide but shallow AoE Shotgun where the gnasher adopts a larger range but smaller width. I dont see the fault.

Problem is the SOS is both longer range and bigger width.

 

[The Antitype]

Help?

I just hit start over and over. As soon as the menu with the option to leave comes up, I hit it.

 

[DoomGyver]

Epic really should add 5 seconds BEFORE the next map loads so you can leave. What I've been doing is waiting for the next map to load and quickly press start > main menu before the countdown starts.

 

[Gr1mLock]

I fail to see how a weapon having an advantage over the gnasher in that little sweet spot is a big deal? Isn't that the point of the weapon? To be deadlier than the gnasher in close combat but riskier to use? It's not gonna be much good if its instant gib range was the same as the gnashers instant gib range is it? How would you adjust it to make it fair for anyone?

For a long time people have moaned about the shotgun being overpowered in Gears, wall bouncers etc kick ass. I'm not so hot with the shotgun so I've had to put up with this kind of problem since day one. Now the wallbouncers have their own problem to worry about and they don't like it!

You're arguing your feelings and experiences. Im talking about a weapon that takes an entire chunk of the meta game out. Its a big deal because of the risk reward. That's why. The reload time simply isnt enough of a drawback as it does not take much for a Sos user who can distinguish up from down to run away. There is no strategy. Hence it takes skill out of the equation and makes the game shallow on a competitive level. As far as what id do to make it fair for everyone? Im never a fan (or very rarely) of nerfing. For better or worse people tie their experience and the fun they have to a particular character, weapon etc..and as much as I may not like something i realize there's plenty of people out there who do. If it were me doing the balancing, Id reduce its close range horizontal spread. Id leave the medium range spread (which can still gib) but up close Id at least ask the player to point the gun in the right direction.