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Gears of War 3 |OT| BROTHERS TO THE END
- Thread starter -PXG-
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"Deal with it, if you don't like the game leave, shotguns are fun and it's always been this way" - these aren't arguments, these are irrational fanboy vomitations in place of legitimate defenses of these systems.
If you LIKE THEM, that's fine, but surely you'd have something better to say for its value then the asinine shit I'm hearing.
But, I doubt it - I've been playing Gears for years and this is the first time me or any of my friends have been upset by shotgun balance. It's forcing a specific repetitious gametype that just repeats itself over and over, until the sun sets. If that's all you need out of your multiplayer, then fine. I just need more skill requirements out of it and more variety out of playtype.
If you LIKE THEM, that's fine, but surely you'd have something better to say for its value then the asinine shit I'm hearing.
But, I doubt it - I've been playing Gears for years and this is the first time me or any of my friends have been upset by shotgun balance. It's forcing a specific repetitious gametype that just repeats itself over and over, until the sun sets. If that's all you need out of your multiplayer, then fine. I just need more skill requirements out of it and more variety out of playtype.
Amir0x said:
75%+ of my MP kills are with the lancer. The rest is a mixture between picked up weapons and the Gnasher.
There is nothing wrong with the gnasher at all, it's easily combatable and only a fool would be stood in shotgun range for long enough to die with with a rifle in his hand.
This gears game is amazingly balanced (apart from the SOS) and the stopping power on rifles is absolutely great at combating gnashers.
The multiplayer for this game is fantastic. Burned through all of the 48 hour trial cards I had saved up and ended up buying a few months of LIVE so I could keep playing. I don't know what they did differently with online, but even with my spotty connection things run fairly smooth.
Also I never played any of the previous GoW games online so I'm hesitant to make any comments regarding balance, but the SoS really does seem like more of a power weapon than something you should be able to start with. It gibs players at a range the gnasher can't even down at, and the spread is so massive you can hit people around corners. In TDM it's not so bad, but it really ruins Warzone/Execution and KotH.
Also I never played any of the previous GoW games online so I'm hesitant to make any comments regarding balance, but the SoS really does seem like more of a power weapon than something you should be able to start with. It gibs players at a range the gnasher can't even down at, and the spread is so massive you can hit people around corners. In TDM it's not so bad, but it really ruins Warzone/Execution and KotH.
kiryani said:
I'm sure there's some player out there for which 75% of the kills come from retro lancer charges or something, but it's not indicative of the field. Like I said, I played all night and virtually every round was non-stop shotgun kills. I think me and my friend Eug counted some 35 shotgun kills in a row during one round before anything broke the tedium. Multiple rooms, same exact outcome. We were actually having a contest to predict what would be the first non-shotgun weapon to break the odds during the streaks
And this is how it has been since launch.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
I thought it was more about tactical positioning and good use of space and cover. But I haven't played much multi so I'm not really an authority.-PXG- said:
LowParry
Member
snack said:This is all I want. Nerf the SOS just a teeny weeny bit and I'm happy.
The range of the SOS without the active SHOULD be the range of an active reload. With how it is currently, it's retarded range.
I'm going to have to agree with Am on the shotgun ratio. I'd say 90% of my fights ends up be shotgun wars. Which is fun as hell. But I only play TDM so I can't relate to those who play other modes like KOTH.
The tactical side of the game is there. But it boils down to closing that gap and...yep...you guessed it. Boom shackalacka!
The Gnasher offers a layer of variety and depth to what would generally be a very boring and stale pop and shoot MP without it. If anyone truly believes that a skilled player that goes 20-7 just runs around mindlessly with shotguns and takes dudes out, you're wrong. I play well because I play very aggressively, unpredictably, and mix in techniques used from Gears 1+2. It involves a good feel of the hipfire, popshotting, and hardaiming, while being able to keep your movement fast and unpredictable through wallbouncing. I have alot of friends that play who don't really understand wallbouncing that well, so their play has a lot of holes when it comes to 1v1 shotgun duels. You need to take good angles towards players in order to play aggressively, which really requires smart exploitation of the cover system. In addition to that, you need to work as a team to call out spawns and control power weapons.Amir0x said:
For me, and for most Gears players, that is infinitely more exciting than the slow, plodding MP that Gears could have been when the first game was released. I would imagine it would be a game where noone ever left cover because they knew they would get ripped up by rifles. Quite frankly, it would be incredibly boring and unimaginative, especially during Execution/Warzone where everyone is hesitant to put their single life on the line. While not everyone may like it (such as yourself), I have to commend Epic for avoiding catering to casual players (although SOS sucks) and really making the game that hardcore Gears MP fans have wanted for a while. Anyways, if MP isn't for you, Horde and Beast are two very different experiences to have.
Again i'm saying these things without the context of the SOS, which needs a few tweaks at the moment.
Lingitiz said:
Oh I love Horde and Beast mode. That IS what we're settling on for now until this shit is nerfed, when it's nerfed. But I just don't see any of this. Maybe when I get up to rank 50 I'll see more off this wallbouncing making the shotgun duels more interesting, but as of now I can sit in one place on a defense of a territory and just pop people wandering around walls with such ease that it strips the fun for me. It's too easy to get kills and it's always the same type of kills, so it's even doubly annoying. I can stay shotgun the entire round and easily rank #1 in a round, why go anything different? I know how easy it is for me to do, I don't need to imagine how easy everyone else seems to think it is - that's all that gets utilized most of the time.
But, I appreciate at least your effort to defend it. Respect++.
LeonSKennedy90
Banned
Amir0x said:
You're changing the goal posts, Amirox. First you say Gears 3 is the first game in the series that is shotgun heavy, which is just flat out incorrect, now you talk about how you don't like the system itself.
It has always been shotgun-heavy, ever since the first game, through a combination of elements(bad netcode, the intimate environment, the power of the shotgun itself, lack of Stopping Power, etc). Maybe you ran into a bunch of players in Gears 1 and 2 that used mostly rifles, maybe you spent all day in customs with Boltoks only, I don't know. But I can definitely tell you the majority of kills in Gears 1 and 2, from a starting weapon standpoint, it was the Gnasher shotgun.
Now you may not like the shotgun intensive nature of Gears of War multiplayer. You may think it goes against the cover based shooting the campaign is built on. That's fine. That is your choice. But don't sit here in this fantasy land of your head and think this shotgun-heavy gameplay is this new phenomenon that Gears 3 brought to the series. If anything, the rifles are better then they've ever been, with actual Stopping Power to battle shotgun rushing, dedicated servers for better netcode, and less claustrophobic map design as a whole.
LeonSKennedy90 said:
No. I said it's the first in the series that is this shotgun heavy:
Amir0x said:
There's always been a shotgun emphasis, no doubt, but it hasn't been cloying until now. I played enough Gears 1 and 2 to compare it to Gears 3, and know that I've never played this many rounds in a row where 90%+ of the kills were shotgun only. I played rounds where it was 50~60%, but when you're getting in the 9 out of every 10 kills range, it's dramatic and it needs to be changed.
Maybe it's my imagination, but I played with this same group of friends in Gears 1 and 2 and they all have the same reaction I'm having. They all could not believe how out of control shotguns were here. All I have is my anecdotal experience, and this is certainly that Gears 3 takes the cake on shotgun imbalance. And I firmly believe in a few months we do a comparison, we're going to see Gears 3 pull away in this regard statistically.
I do agree on one point, and that is that alot of players are tending to camp areas with SOS because of the way TDM is structured. Spawns are very predictable this time around. When it was strictly execution/warzone, players had to move around the map and find flanks, because most of the time you are aware of where each team comes from, and what parts of the map they control. With the chaos that is TDM, everything changes. Players rush out from spawns to the nearest hotspot of action, and campers prosper from this. Its one of the reasons why I dislike the mode, despite enjoying what it offers for newer players.Amir0x said:
My love of the Gnasher combat comes out of that tense feeling of actual value to your life in no respawn modes. 1v1 duels get incredibly exciting, and the excitement when two high level players go at it cannot be beat.
If you get killed by a shotgun, it means you failed to use your tools to keep your distance out of the range of a shotgun.
In Gears 1 it was really shotgun heavy, with very little tools to stop it. Gears 2 added a lot, but also took away the charm of those shotgun battles. Gears 3 has tons of options for those who want to play long range and keep distance, but then the SoS comes along and fucks things up again.
If you don't want to engage shotgun battles, run away!
In Gears 1 it was really shotgun heavy, with very little tools to stop it. Gears 2 added a lot, but also took away the charm of those shotgun battles. Gears 3 has tons of options for those who want to play long range and keep distance, but then the SoS comes along and fucks things up again.
If you don't want to engage shotgun battles, run away!
Absoludacrous
Member
Amir0x said:
How long did you play the first two games? At first they played differently, especially Gears 1 as people figured the game out, but after while Gears 1 was nothing but shotguns and power weapons. At all.
The Gears 2 hit, and the influx of people who only played a couple months of Gears 1 meant there were once again games where the shotgun wasn't used heavily, but that changed as those people left or adapted, and within a couple months it was all shotguns and power weapons again.
Now it's Gears 3 and the cycle repeats, only this time more people are keyed in on how Gears multi actually plays.
AndyMoogle
Member
I'm amazed that anyone could claim that the gnasher in this game is worse than in Gears 2. The Gears 2 gnasher beat the lancer 9 times out of 10. You could fire from 30 feet away and down people in 2-3 shots. It was ridiculous.
I don't know how Gears 3 could possible beat 1 in shotgun dominance. 1 didn't have any system to stop people from shotgun rushing, it's literally all I ever saw there. 2 added stopping power, but the movement speed was lowered and grenade tagging was HORRIBLY overpowered. To this day in 3 I still think "FUCK" when I set off a smoke on the wall, only to be surprised to see it barely due anything, because I'm too used to 2 having me fly to the ground for twelve minutes.
2 was way too slow/campy because of this, people would toss a smoke and use the shotgun, but it was really inconsistent. I can't even talk much on 2 because as much as I played it, it was like weapon damage changed each game I played.
3 seems to finally have a good balance, even if you see shotgun kills a lot. Movement speed is fast in this game, so it's easy to get flanked or duck in and out of cover with the intent on getting close. I have like 270 retro kills and 290 gnasher kills, because I'm ALWAYS in people's faces. The retro stops a lot of the gnasher BS, but the gnasher is still king for getting behind people and gibbing half a team. The lancer and hammerburst are both very powerful and definitely keep me in check from mindlessly running around, though, which is great. If anyone catches me trying to run at them, the stopping power alone stops me in my tracks, and if it's an active reload on top of that I'm dead before I can roll back.
2 was way too slow/campy because of this, people would toss a smoke and use the shotgun, but it was really inconsistent. I can't even talk much on 2 because as much as I played it, it was like weapon damage changed each game I played.
3 seems to finally have a good balance, even if you see shotgun kills a lot. Movement speed is fast in this game, so it's easy to get flanked or duck in and out of cover with the intent on getting close. I have like 270 retro kills and 290 gnasher kills, because I'm ALWAYS in people's faces. The retro stops a lot of the gnasher BS, but the gnasher is still king for getting behind people and gibbing half a team. The lancer and hammerburst are both very powerful and definitely keep me in check from mindlessly running around, though, which is great. If anyone catches me trying to run at them, the stopping power alone stops me in my tracks, and if it's an active reload on top of that I'm dead before I can roll back.
corrosivefrost
Member
Creepy how the instrumental track plays over the fighting on gridlock if you go to a final round... (I think?)
Holy shit. Is this post serious? If you actually played a fair amount of Gears 1/2 you would you know how laughable this post is. Gears 1/2 was pretty much shotguns all the time, nonstop.Amir0x said:
Gears 3 has balance, the lancers are actually useful this time around, which means the shotguns aren't as lame as 1/2 where they were used almost exclusively.
mickcenary
Member
I take solace in the fact that though there have been pages upon pages of debate regarding the SOS, its main problem is easily fixed and identifiable: reduce its range so that it actually performs as advertised. Its power is fine.
By the same card, it's yet to be addressed, so maybe Epic don't give a shit about it.
By the same card, it's yet to be addressed, so maybe Epic don't give a shit about it
.adversesolutions
Member
imtehman said:
Is it actually manageable if you can do that well? I tried to get some kills with it in MP and couldn't finish off anybody!
HawksWinStanley
Member
leng jai said:
I love it. It actually takes some skill and patience to use now.
Papercuts said:
someone thankfully posted that a day or so ago in this thread. good to know, but it doesnt change the fact that someone can spawn literally right behind you. its happened to me several timess and ive spawned right behind the enemy a few times myself.
its not a constant problem, but it happens and its frustrating. some maps are kind of small for 5v5 though, so its bound to happen i guess.
leng jai said:
i cant get the hang of this thing either. between the massive recoil, the bloom on the reticle, and trying to get a hang of the proper distance to use it at (somewhere inbetween shotty and Lancer), im pretty useless with it.
need more practice. i usually try to use it and fail and then immediately switch to the normal Lancer or the Hammerburst.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
Amir0x said:
Most will disagree with you. Most used Shotguns in the 1st & from my experience EVERYONE used shotguns in the 2nd.
This is the first game were the lancer & Hammerburst are effective. Much less recoil makes them better to use in long range situations.
The Retro Lancer is basically a long range shotgun, it will beat out any shotgun every time that isn't closer than 6 feet.
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