MugiwaraCole
Member
You're legitimately intentionally ignoring the problem, now.
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Ghost in the Shell |OT| I was born in the sea of information
- Thread starter Trokil
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You're legitimately intentionally ignoring the problem, now.
My belief is that most Americans who see it will not know it is anime based, they will think of Tron and/or the Matrix and figure those movies inspired it.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I think most know it's based on something from Japan.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
If no one can't name a potential actress, I will continue to say the problem is elsewhere: there are no Asian-American actresses at the moment.
Really, name just one potential Asian-American blockbuster actress. I really, really can't. Lucy Liu is the only one I can think off and she's "too old" for Hollywood sexist standards.
I'm not. I don't see this as the problem with GitS. The problem is elsewhere.
GitS actually has very diverse casting. They even speak Japanese in it.
I would say rather the stigmata though of it being an anime IP is something to consider. Comic books are generally considered mainstream now due to the influx of high quality movies. This is pretty much the first of its kind.
Also GitS is not exactly an easy franchise to market due to the heavy focus on philosophical quandries.
I don't think anybody thinks about Tron now, including Disney.
You have to be pretty in-the-know already to know that GitS was a big source for the Wachowskis.
MugiwaraCole
Member
You believe there aren't any Asian actresses because Hollywood hasn't casted any because they do not want to. Your refusal to acknowledge that reality is intentional.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I think the stigma's actual effect is overrated, though. I don't think it matters much at all.
I think that looking at Ghost in the Shell in "franchise" terms is a bigger problem, definitely. It shouldn't be sold as such. This first film needs to be sold as its own thing, not some arm or cog in a larger GiTS machine.
Fine, since you're so hung up on names I'll throw some out.
Constance Wu: if Chris Pratt can do it, so can she.
Ellen Wong: I thought she was pretty good in Scott Pilgrim.
Karen Fukuhara: She was decent for the bit of Suicide Squad she was in.
Tao Okamoto: Never saw the Wolverine but I thought she was pretty good in Hannibal.
Rinko Kikuchi: I thought she did well in Pacific Rim.
There's just a few, but I'm sure there are many more.
I can barely name a handful of Asian-American actresses. That's the point. I never see them anywhere. If Asian-American actors and actresses were tanking movies left and right then I could see MAYBE see Hollywood's point of view. I'm having trouble naming the last Asian-American actress I've seen on the big screen, let alone in a starring role.
It's very, very simple.
You say "they can't cast an Asian American because there are none with names big enough for this".
And we say "there are none with names big enough because they never get the chance to have their names plastered front and center".
And as evidence you can just look at movies like 21, Prince of Persia, The Last Airbender, Dr. Strange, Edge of Tomorrow, and on and so forth.
What part of this confuses you or do you disagree with?
You say "they can't cast an Asian American because there are none with names big enough for this".
And we say "there are none with names big enough because they never get the chance to have their names plastered front and center".
And as evidence you can just look at movies like 21, Prince of Persia, The Last Airbender, Dr. Strange, Edge of Tomorrow, and on and so forth.
What part of this confuses you or do you disagree with?
UnemployedVillain
Member
I was going to do this, but I guarantee he's going to find some arbitrary reason to discredit them
"But can they lead a *insert some number in 100s* budget movie?!"
Meanwhile, we have a random white dude from Australia getting cast as lead roles in both the biggest movie ever and the long awaited sequel to a major scifi franchise, across from Christian Bale (after The Dark Knight hit it big) and no explanation for that not being risky.
I always harken back to this when I think about the Hollywood whitewash.
It's absolutely outrageous that some people here are basically placing the blame entirely on this GitS film for the crimes of Hollywood at large regarding the casting of Asian actors.
GitS is a completely untested property in this market and actually did cast people like Kitano in side parts. The producers aren't saints or anything like that, but they actually have an excuse and are doing a way better job with this than giants like Disney ever have.
I've said this before, but Disney films are virtually guaranteed to do well. They have zero excuses to never cast Asian actors. Imagine the Hollywood landscape if 5 or 10 years ago they made an effort there and these days we'd have Asian stars as big as ScarJo. The casting in this movie might have gone a different way.
GitS is a completely untested property in this market and actually did cast people like Kitano in side parts. The producers aren't saints or anything like that, but they actually have an excuse and are doing a way better job with this than giants like Disney ever have.
I've said this before, but Disney films are virtually guaranteed to do well. They have zero excuses to never cast Asian actors. Imagine the Hollywood landscape if 5 or 10 years ago they made an effort there and these days we'd have Asian stars as big as ScarJo. The casting in this movie might have gone a different way.
And there it is again.
"It's not like Hollywood's biased or anything, it's just that Asians can't act"
Considering the movie is already done and ScarJo is Major, this conversation isn't even really about "who should lead GITS" so much as "there is a consistent whitewashing problem in Hollywood and GITS is just one in a long line of examples and some people seem oblivious to this, or unwilling to admit why it happens, namely, because no one wants to take "the risk" on an Asian American actor".
Untested would be a completely original cyberpunk action film starring an cyborg played by ScarJo. Them leveraging the GITS pedigree is the opposite of "untested". There's no reason to use an existing IP in the first place except to capitalize on its foundations.
I don't know how you can say this with a straight face when GITS is still an extant multimedia franchise, whose lineage traces back to Blade Runner and forward to The Matrix. There are definitely risks here I admit but drastically, drastically, less than recent cyborg/AI films like Her and Ex Machina, both of which did well and to critical acclaim.
Untested would be a completely original cyberpunk action film starring an cyborg played by ScarJo. Them leveraging the GITS pedigree is the opposite of "untested". There's no reason to use an existing IP in the first place except to capitalize on its foundations.
Kojirospath
Member
I would have watched it with her in it. Could see it working. Might need to work a bit on her English (or was the 'accent' part of the character?), but I def see her pulling of the character. Knives Chao would've been fun, but whats she up to lately?
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Of course there are. But is there any blockbuster material is the real question. You can't give me any names, I can't figure anyone out. So is the issue really racial or is it just that simple, that there are no actresses to cast into this spesific role? Occam's razors and all that.
Good! Getting names!
Haven't seen Wu on anything. Would you cast her in a blockbuster?
Is she good enough actor? I liked her in Scott Pilgrim, but imagine her as Major. Not quite.
Yeah, can't really tell how her skills are. Based on purely of her Suicide Squad presence, she could be a damn fine Major.
She's gaining some momentum. Can't really judge her skills yet. Blockbuster? Not yet at least.
She was good in Rim. Good, potential Major, yeah.
Thank you! Names.
Alright. Did they even go to the audition or not? Do they have the same sex and name appeal as ScarJo? Do they have the same skills as ScarJo? Acting and fighting.
Everyone knows ScarJo and she is in a tight latex suit in all the promotional material. Would Fukuhara or Kikuchi have the same impact as ScarJo?
Would you cast any of these fine actresses to your 120 million dollar movie? I might not. There's so much money going on. I'd have made the boring and safe casting call: "get me the hottest a-lister women to the audition ASAP".
Some of these actresses for a cheaper action production? Sure, why not, if they want to star action movies.
IF it's true, it's basically the only problem. Don't you think? Would you cast a bad actor or actress to your 120 million dollar production? I wouldn't. I'm still talking about a really small acting minority within the acting minorities.
That's pretty much my stance on this as well. They seemed to have tried to some extent to be multicultural and there are solid in-universe reasons for the whitewashing stuff. I feel that GitS was a risky property to begin with so I don't feel too heavy of the need to go in after the producers for seemingly trying to mitigate any potential risk.
Stuff like the MCU could be doing a lot more with their casting both on the TV screen as well as their movies. That's not to excuse GitS but this is a larger problem and I think that the producers and staff did try and didn't just blow it off.
Kojirospath
Member
Damn, now I'm sad she wasn't cast. Maybe would've resulted in a slightly better plot (at least regarding that one, ridiculus, spoiler).
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Okay, now I'm laughing.
This is good. You got me man. I'm sorry for before. Didn't see what you were doing. That's my bad.
Messofanego
Banned
Yet plenty of big-budget movies have unknown white actors, which doesn't stop the production.
Sam Worthington
Brandon Routh
Hayden Christiansen
Shia LaBeouf
Hugh Jackman
Eric Bana
Orlando Bloom
Joel Courtney
Mark Hamill
Christopher Reeve
Charlie Hunnam
Patrick Wilson
Elijah Wood
Chris Pine
Taylor Kitsch
Bruce Willis
They tried to digitally alter ScarJo to look more Asian.
That went about as well as I thought it would.
I mean, they cast Scarlett Johansson. Disney won't even let her headline a movie in a franchise that supposedly makes her qualified to do so.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Lol, dude she speaks perfect english without an accent...she was born and grew up in LA
I called it. It's why I didn't even bother giving a list
Cymbal Head
Banned
The fact that the filmmakers felt it was necessary to put in a flimsy pretext to explain why the lead character was white instead of Asian implies they expected that decision to rub people the wrong way, which gives me hope in a funny way. I mean, at least they seem to get that it's an issue. The first step is admitting you have a problem and all that.
And nobody better talk shit about Constance Wu in this thread.
Kojirospath
Member
I wish they cast an asian actress for Motoko and get some bigname white actor to play Batou. Maybe put the focus on them 50/50. I'd be just like wrestling. Big name putting the smaller name over
.
Edit: Would also be dope to get an Innocence inspired subplot.
.Edit: Would also be dope to get an Innocence inspired subplot.
UnemployedVillain
Member
I wish they cast an asian actress for Motoko and get some bigname white actor to play Batou. Maybe put the focus on them 50/50. I'd be just like wrestling. Big name putting the smaller name over
You'd be committing a big no no in Hollywood. Putting an Asian actor in the lead role
I love Constance Wu so much...
Kojirospath
Member
Lucy Liu never had top billing? We had Ecks vs. Sever
.UnemployedVillain
Member
Can't wait for her to go off when she finds out the twist in the movie. It'll be glorious
I wish they cast an asian actress for Motoko and get some bigname white actor to play Batou. Maybe put the focus on them 50/50. I'd be just like wrestling. Big name putting the smaller name over
Edit: Would also be dope to get an Innocence inspired subplot.
Batista as Batou
Doctor Decimate
Member
right? all these random white people endlessly materialize out of fucking nowhere every year for half the blockbusters and people still wanna act like there's some bar Asians and other minorities just aren't meeting.
that's how it goes i guess. white people can come on in but where minorities are concerned, wait just a minute, let's see some qualifications here; we can't give it to just ANYBODY
Kojirospath
Member
Well, he has the build for it. I'd watch Batousta
.AmaterasuOni
Banned
Well, people are blaming GitS for things we don't know and we don't probably even get to know. It is a very diverse movie. Beat speaks Japanese. They live in a multicultural city. There are lots of actors from different cultures.
I'm only questioning people's accusations of whitewashing, because the issue is not that simple. I want to know if there's Asian-American actresses who can really star a blockbuster this huge. Do they have the same shit as Chris Pratt, Vin Diesel and all these stars who can't really act that well but bring their other assets to the screen? Do they have the potential to be next sex symbol for the youngsters to worship?
And the movie's twist is that
ScarJo's android body is just the shell for a Japanese woman's ghost. I thought it was a bit too apologetic, but what can they do, when they knew the reaction is exactly this?
I'd cast her as well. Just look at the posters. And watch the movie.
andythinkpad
Member
There are legit only two actress who can carry a 100 million action movie right now. Scarjo and JLaw, period. When the new Tomb Raider bomb people will realize Alicia Vikander can not top bill and carry an action movie.
Basically a lot of people choose to fight the general racism in Hollywood instead of the sexism in the action movie genre.
People who are familiar with HK movie should know that Michelle Yoeh has always been more popular in HK action movie than Cynthia Rothrock is in Hollywood action movies. This is the sexism within the action movie audience themselves. I bet a lot people don't even know who Cynthia Rothrock is, and it's not for the lack of trying by Hollywood.
radios shipping overview
Member
You really, really don't get it. You can't think of Asian actors at that level because they aren't given the same opportunities to prove themselves with leads in smaller films that white actors are (especially white men).
How many lead roles did Sam Worthington get before Terminator Salvation and Avatar?
MugiwaraCole
Member
We migrated from "this isn't GitS's fault, it's a lager Hollywood issue", despite the fact that's what everyone here has been arguing from the jump. Jesus. No one is placing the blame solely on them, we recognize it's a larger issue. Their not doing anything about it by casting ScarJo is absolutely part of the problem.
Also, "would you cast them in a blockbuster?" seems like a really stupid question for some reason. Probably because the answer where people like Chris Pratt and Will Smith were concerned would've been no before they got their breakout roles. Ugh.
Also, "would you cast them in a blockbuster?" seems like a really stupid question for some reason. Probably because the answer where people like Chris Pratt and Will Smith were concerned would've been no before they got their breakout roles. Ugh.
She was fucking awful in that movie.
I can't remember a worse acting in a movie before her
Karen speaks perfect English IIRC. The accent was part of the character.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
No no, it's cool man. You're good. You can stop.
you're taking the gag into "nutted but she still suckin'" territory.
Doctor Decimate
Member
And yet you seem real comfortable suggesting the blame, instead of with the people in charge of casting this movie, actually lies with Asian actresses who didn't try hard enough throughout their entire careers.
I wonder why that is.
But you're just asking questions, right? Suggesting possibilities?
That's usually how it goes.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
The problem is that's a very dangerous game to play, because like you said, the pretext is flimsy. People are going to focus on that more so than any kind of story nuance and hold that against them.
ultracal31
You don't get to bring friends.
Not going with that twist would be a good step one to avoiding that type of reaction
Lmao... hilarious shit. Won't be seeing it in theaters but probably will catch it at some point.
radios shipping overview
Member
I love Rinko. Love her to death. She's the best. But she can't act in English.
She totally stole The Brothers Bloom, though, without saying a word.
So, the simplest, most efficient way to explain the lack of diversity in Hollywood is a lack of ability, rather than a lack of opportunity.
... cause I can do Occam's Razor™ too, and apparently you're a racist.
Messofanego
Banned
Pretty good in Babel, tho.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
I really haven't blamed any Asian or Asian-American actor. You guys are twisting what I'm saying.
I'm just asking if there are any Asian actresses who can star a movie this big. It's a legit question, which you people seem to be afraid to answer. If the answer is no, isn't the problem elsewhere then? It's not actually a racial issue then like you are suggesting.
This guy gets it:
Cynthia is a legend! Would she star a 120 million action movie? Well, not really, unfortunately.
Might be. It might have caused even more noise though: "they didn't even try".
I'm still talking about Asian-American actresses. Not the whole racial issue.
Ad hominem is the manly way to go. I hope mods do something to yourkind.
Zoe
Member
I'm definitely placing the blame on them for that stupid-ass twist.
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