MugiwaraCole
Member
No one misunderstands what you're saying. You've been answered, multiple times. You are either mentally deficient, or a racist. I'm sorry.
This is actually the simplest thing in the world. I promise you it is.
Ghost in the Shell |OT| I was born in the sea of information
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No one misunderstands what you're saying. You've been answered, multiple times. You are either mentally deficient, or a racist. I'm sorry.
This is actually the simplest thing in the world. I promise you it is.
Doctor Decimate
Member
So the "just asking questions" part of my post you deleted. Got it.
radios shipping overview
Member
You keep asking that question like it's the only question that matters, and you don't bother to ask why things are the way they are. You need to stop.
Was Lucy Liu even that good of an actress? I remember Bill Murray supposedly called her out on her acting. I felt that other asian chick in Kill Bill (the one from Battle Royale) did a better job than her. I don't remember much of Lucy Liu's acting tbh.
As for ScarJo being cast, I feel it's strictly business. They want to appeal to a wider audience, and Scarlett fits the bill. GitS doesn't seem like a popular IP as opposed to say Xmen, so the studio aren't willing to risk casting an unpopular actress.
As for ScarJo being cast, I feel it's strictly business. They want to appeal to a wider audience, and Scarlett fits the bill. GitS doesn't seem like a popular IP as opposed to say Xmen, so the studio aren't willing to risk casting an unpopular actress.
Haven't watched these but my god did she sucked in Pacific Rim.
Will check out the others, but I am not too excited.
Oh, so you're sticking with it then. Cool.
They won't. Not sure about you, though.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Because I don't see that issue in GitS, that is why I keep asking it. I see the issue in many other movies, but GitS isn't one of them.
I thought this had been debunked. also no scarjo and the 100 mil price tag goes down(17 mil).. just saying.
I remember there was recent research that found this to be a myth.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Lucy is still a decent actor. She's pretty neat in Elementary. But Major good 10-15 years ago (or now)? I doubt it.
This is what I try to say. ScarJo sells better than some pretty unknown Asian-American actress. It's business, not whitewashing. They diminish the risks by casting some sexually appealing a-lister. It is what it is.
Doctor Decimate
Member
did we all forget this movie was originally supposed to star Margot Robbie?
but yeah something something starpower
but yeah something something starpower
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Margot is probably as hot as ScarJo at the moment. Harley!
They also didn't do themselves any favors by originally trying to digitally alter ScarJo to look Asian. So actually kinda extra fuck them because of that shit.
Zoe
Member
Dude, she only wanted the role. Did she even audition?
Now, maybe. Back then she was a nobody.
Hey, whaddyaknow
She was great in Babel. I think she got nominated for an oscar for that role which is pretty amazing.
How has this been debunked? I saw a list of white male names earlier and the immediate difference was they all started in Western based already established Franchises. Thats why the new Star Wars movies can hire relatively unknown actors and actresses the name carries that movie not the actor/actress. GitS is different its an anime/manga adaption that has very minor western establishment(the anime community). eg Sam Worthington wasnt the one pushing the Terminator movie, the franchise was and thats why they could go for someone cheaper they already had the power behind it.
Doctor Decimate
Member
Margot Robbie had a big role in a grand total of one movie around this time (September 2014) and had not yet been cast as Harley Quinn.
It's time for you to stop scrambling for bullshit excuses.
I hope this thread stays the course on its current topic throughout its lifespan. This shit needs to be discussed until there are actual changes.
God dude you are making me so fucking mad.
Unless you're trolling. Then ha ha ha ha ha
God dude you are making me so fucking mad.
Unless you're trolling. Then ha ha ha ha ha
MugiwaraCole
Member
He's racist. He's not gonna stop. Time to just drop it where he's concerned.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
I have no excuses. Can you on the other hand name at least one Asian-American actress who can carry the weight of a niche anime-action movie on her shoulders? And don't give me your bullshit escuses. There must be at least one, because why else would you guys say ScarJo's casting is whitewashing.
I hope mods get you as well. This is a pretty hefty accusation. I have said nothing that implicates racism of any sorts. I'm only questioning the logic behind the accusations in GitS whitewashing.
No she wasnt.
radios shipping overview
Member
You're saying that there is only one actress (or two, or three, tops, all of whom are white) who can currently star in a Hollywood sci-fi action movie, and you're going to give that situation a pass by calling it "just business"?
Found this from 2006 doing a quick search.
http://www.people.hbs.edu/aelberse/papers/hbs_06-002.pdf
In my opinion star power is even less important today than 10 years ago. These days it's all about ip's and franchises(which is awful in its own right).
Doctor Decimate
Member
You first.
Why were they first going for a relative unknown that just so happens to be a white lady if race played no part in this?
You know, that whole thing you ignored just now?
The Lone Ranger, John Carter, Battleship, and Avatar were all established franchises? And a case could be made against Transformers and Star Trek, neither of which were anywhere near as popular to guarantee that they'd succeed.
He's right. Dreamworks (before Paramount boarded the project) offered Robbie the lead role. When WB heard that they might lose her to the GITS film they moved in quickly and offered her Harley Quinn.
Paramount joined the production and they decided to 'break the bank' and offered ScarJo the role.
IIRC.
MugiwaraCole
Member
You've been spoon-fed the answer many times and are simply ignoring them and asking the same questions. An inability to see racism for what it is is racism, and it's the most prevalent form of it today; people claiming to be allies and be on your side that also tell you to settle down and accept the status quo because the very clear malicious intent is actually something less malicious. You fall under that umbrella. I'm not sorry for pointing that out, no matter how much it displeases you.
Angelus Errare
Banned
It's always the same cycle of nonsense
"There are no big name Asian actors/actresses" --> "Hollywood isn't going to take a chance on an unknown Asian actor/actress" --> "Why are there no Asian actors/actresses?" --> "Did any Asians even audition for the role?" --> "There are no Asian actors/actresses in hollywood for them to cast, do Asians not try to become actors/actresses?" --> "There are no big name Asian actors/actresses" --> "Hollywood isn't going to take a chance on an unknown Asian actor/actress" --> "Why are there no Asian actors/actresses?" --> "Did any Asians even audition for the role?"
Ah good ol Taylor Kitsch.
"There are no big name Asian actors/actresses" --> "Hollywood isn't going to take a chance on an unknown Asian actor/actress" --> "Why are there no Asian actors/actresses?" --> "Did any Asians even audition for the role?" --> "There are no Asian actors/actresses in hollywood for them to cast, do Asians not try to become actors/actresses?" --> "There are no big name Asian actors/actresses" --> "Hollywood isn't going to take a chance on an unknown Asian actor/actress" --> "Why are there no Asian actors/actresses?" --> "Did any Asians even audition for the role?"
Ah good ol Taylor Kitsch.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Yep. It's like how it has always been since the invention of movie stars. They go in cycles. There are only handful of big stars in any given decade. These stars are special as they have "the hollywood charm" or how the hell they try to sell it. Not everyone has it.
There is a problem that until these days these stars have mainly been white. Hollywood money is still quite white, but it is changing.
There just aren't any Asian-American blockbuster actresses at the moment. It is what it is. Slowly they're changing this for the better. But at the moment they can only cast ScarJo or J-Law in a niche 120 million dollar anime-based sci-fi flick if they want to get their money back and some more. They need to calculate and evaluate the risks and then take actions to decrease them: ScarJo in a tight latex suit is a huge risk eraser.
That is the reality, no matter how you twist it. If you cast b-listers to your a-movies, you're going to lose money.
It's not surprising that few - if any - Asian actors come to mind, given that you're asking us to draw them from an industry rife with systemic racism. What's more surprising is the conclusion you're choosing to pull from that fact. Specifically: that the lack of noteworthy Asian actors (and by extension, roles) results from a lack of ability. I say "surprising" primarily because the opposite is so obviously true. There are heaps of wonderfully talented minority actors hungry for work in Hollywood (and, yes, that includes Asians). What the industry lacks are opportunities for them, and the reason for that is because old habits die hard.
Frankly, your argument is so absurdly backwards that the only way to really make sense of it is to try and identify an obvious bias (i.e. racism). If you feel that's an unjustified attempt at ad hominem, then so be it.
Lone Ranger had Depp, John Carter bombed, Battleship bombed, Avatar has James Cameron and a fuckload of marketing being the child of 3D and all. Transformers 100% had been well established with cartoons and toys for decades. Star Trek is the outlier here but definitely could be argued that is pretty established since it had 5 tv series, and a fuck load of movies.
radios shipping overview
Member
So you implicitly acknowledge that the system was and still is racist, but that it's magically changing "slowly" and that we just need to be patient, because money is king?
MugiwaraCole
Member
That's textbook liberal racism lmfao
AmaterasuOni
Banned
There are plenty of wonderful minority actors. Moonlight was one of my favorite movies last year. Might even be in my top 5. Tomorrow I'm going to see A United Kingdom which stars a minority actor. I've only read good things about it.
I'm not talking about minorities in Hollywood. You guys keep on bringing the whole issue to the talk, when I'm saying that I do not see this issue in GitS.
I'm only talking about Asian-American actresses for the role of Major. There is a huge difference. My question is still legit. If there are no suitable ethnic actresses available, what can they do? If they have already calculated the risks to be that huge, that only the illustrious a-lister female star can salvage the production. What can they do? It is still only a business that aims to get profit.
It is an ad hominem. It's a quite wide attack against me. Many are even saying I'm racist, you included. That's a pretty heavy accusation in an open forum. And I still haven't got a simple answer to my very simple question. Only attacks and bullying.
Is my question too hard to answer or impossible to answer? I just want some suggestions. I got few names from where I saw at least two potential actresses. But are they suitable for Major? I don't at least think so.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Yes. Money is the king and will be the king in Hollywood. There's nothing we can do about it.
I didn't speak about magic anywhere. The system is already changing. We see it more and more every year.
Liberal racism. Holy shit. Where do you learn this shit?
In the post you literally just quoted I offered an explanation as to why it's difficult to name names. My problem is not with your "challenge", but rather the conclusion you're choosing to draw from it. It's absurd, and multiple people ITT have explained why. And as for you playing the victim card while, at the same time, behaving like a racist in an "open forum"? Too bad. Don't shit where you sleep.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Brian_FETO
Banned
Oh hey guys so how's the movi-
Oh... yeah that makes sense.
I have tickets for tomorrow, I've avoided a lot of discussion because due to the nature of the film I don't think people particularly care much about throwing plot stuff around so whatever. Sounds like response is decent so that's better than expected I guess?
Oh... yeah that makes sense.
I have tickets for tomorrow, I've avoided a lot of discussion because due to the nature of the film I don't think people particularly care much about throwing plot stuff around so whatever. Sounds like response is decent so that's better than expected I guess?
Aside from people saying multiple times they originally offered the role to Margot Robbie, which refutes your claim that it's for star power and nothing else, have you seen the film or read the spoilers? The plot's going to keep the whitewashing accusations going for a long time.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Too bad I need to go to sleep. I could continue this fight forever!
4 hours until our strangely timed embargo. I'll drop my quick review in the morning
Peace!
4 hours until our strangely timed embargo. I'll drop my quick review in the morning
Peace!
Its Fresh on Rottentomatoes, but I think it's getting away with Fresh reviews mostly due to great visuals. Which are heavily borrowed from GitS '95 and Innocence, but whatever.
Go in for the great visuals. The rest of the movie is not very good.
andythinkpad
Member
Scarjo was cast (or that GitS was fast tracked) because Lucy made a godzillion dollars. If and when Margot Robbie can make a garbage popcorn action movie sell like hot cake on her own star power along (that means no cheating with Will Smith), she will get her own action movie(s) right away. This rule applies to every A list Chinese actress too.
Brian_FETO
Banned
Expected as much. Visual showcase with the story dumbed down Hollywood style. Works for me
MugiwaraCole
Member
Look at this logic. "You won't be cast to lead a blockbuster until you can lead a blockbuster."
How does this even make sense?
If you don't know what it is, a quick google search will suffice. I'm not kidding. That's about all I've got left to say to you, guy.
radios shipping overview
Member
You're happy to ignore inequality in opportunity while you treat unchecked capitalism as an immovable object, and you wonder why other people don't think the same way.
The world has truly changed.
That's the hope, anyway.
Shame you've already got one hell of a tag, because this...
...would've been a doozy.
MugiwaraCole
Member
It's so fucking frustrating. They smile in your face and tell you they see the issue, but that you're going about trying to fix it all wrong, all the while never really seeing what the issue is. It's become more prevalent in "post-racial" society, and threads like this are all the proof you need of it. It almost feels like a step back sometimes. You have to be wary of everybody.
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