Support NeoGAF

[Reave]

Ghost of Yotei and AC Shadows are having a mid-off.

 

[coachmcguirk91]

Fans dont care about graphics. I mean look at CoD, Fortnite, and other popular games. The mass audience really doesnt care about graphics.

Devs are the ones you need to care about graphics. They are putting their heart and soul into a game for five years. You'd expect them to ship something they can be proud of. Something they can point to and say hey, I MADE THAT. Honestly, i am surprised devs can ship something like this and not be ashamed of their output. Especially after seeing chinese and indie studios like Sandfall Interactive. It's obvious that devs have stopped caring and take zero pride in their art. No one at sony is shipping something that looks this dated last gen. Something has gone really wrong there, and it's the devs who should be held responsible. Not just for the lack of graphics and gameplay upgrades, but for sheer laziness, lack of effort, and a complete lack of shame for putting out something this bland.

I would've resigned before charging $70 for this. Have some self respect.

Why should devs care about graphics over developing an actual great game when most gamers don't care? Most devs are gamers after all. Yotei isnt out yet, but compared to GOT and other recent Playstation sequels, there appears to be an actual evolution of the gameplay loop

5 different weapons instead of one, including firearms

Non-linear with how you approach the main story

Wolf companion that fights alongside you

Setting up camp, cooking, currency, gambling

Bounty system, where enemies will track you down

We will see how it all comes together. The game directors emphasized that they focused on making the game much less repetitive and more open to exploring than GOT

 

[Msamy]

Fans dont care about graphics. I mean look at CoD, Fortnite, and other popular games. The mass audience really doesnt care about graphics.

Devs are the ones you need to care about graphics. They are putting their heart and soul into a game for five years. You'd expect them to ship something they can be proud of. Something they can point to and say hey, I MADE THAT. Honestly, i am surprised devs can ship something like this and not be ashamed of their output. Especially after seeing chinese and indie studios like Sandfall Interactive. It's obvious that devs have stopped caring and take zero pride in their art. No one at sony is shipping something that looks this dated last gen. Something has gone really wrong there, and it's the devs who should be held responsible. Not just for the lack of graphics and gameplay upgrades, but for sheer laziness, lack of effort, and a complete lack of shame for putting out something this bland.

I would've resigned before charging $70 for this. Have some self respect.

They just lazy developers, you bought your ps5 pro to enjoy wolf companion fighting alongside you lol

 

[GermanZepp]

That chain hook seems op. I like stealth options in games but this looks like is running and one shooting everyone. I'm not interested but just saying. Maybe the gameplay is diferent in hands.

 

[SlimySnake]

Why should devs care about graphics over developing an actual great game when most gamers don't care? Most devs are gamers after all. Yotei isnt out yet, but compared to GOT and other recent Playstation sequels, there appears to be an actual evolution of the gameplay loop

5 different weapons instead of one, including firearms

Non-linear with how you approach the main story

Wolf companion that fights alongside you

Setting up camp, cooking, currency, gambling

Bounty system, where enemies will track you down

We will see how it all comes together. The game directors emphasized that they focused on making the game much less repetitive and more open to exploring than GOT

Because artists have a responsibility to inspire us. To push our imagination. Precisely because we lack it. Imagine if da vinci or Michelangelo just sat there drawing tits all day because that's what people wanted. Nah they pushed themselves, to be the best, and couldn't care less about what the fines drones wanted.

There was an interview with Nolan recently where he was so shocked to find out some filmmakers go into a movie thinking of it as a job where to them good enough is good enough. He said he wanted every movie he made to be the best movie he's made. Otherwise what's the point?

And he's working with a medium that's been pretty much tapped out. Gaming is still relatively new and full of possibilities. Forget graphics. They had the cpu upgrade they ignored. The ssd upgrade they ignored. The gameplay changes you listed are laughably pathetic. Its the complete opposite of Nolan's mentality. They are settling for mediocrity.

 

[Fess]

Do we know what happened? They made infamous and Ghosts was a decent late gen game. Jason Schrier needs to do an expose on this. My guess is that all the talent left or the game was in development hell, and they just turned this DLC into a $70 game.

My guess is that GTA happened.

Sony had banked on GTA filling up 2025 and panicked when learning about a delay and Insomniac was the studio closest to have something ready,
"- We need something for 2025, GO!"

Either that or Ghost of Tsushima 2 is also in development and Ghost of Yotei is made by a B team.

 

[Msamy]

My guess is that GTA happened.

Sony had banked on GTA filling up 2025 and panicked when learning about a delay and Insomniac was the studio closest to have something ready,
"- We need something for 2025, GO!"

Either that or Ghost of Tsushima 2 is also in development and Ghost of Yotei is made by a B team.

You just need to accept the fact that sony didn't give a fuc. about this gen

 

[iHaunter]

5 years for a stand-alone expansion is crazy, dude.

Need me to make a welfare check call?

 

[semiconscious]

Ghost of Yotei and AC Shadows are having a mid-off.

can it be that we're nearing the end of the open-world samurai craze?...

 

[Fess]

You just need to accept the fact that sony didn't give a fuc. about this gen

Nah I don't think that's true.

Ratchet, GT7, Demon's Souls, Forbidden West, Returnal, Ragnarök, Spider-Man 2, Astrobot.
It's been alright.

I think Covid might've delayed many games though, causing a lackluster software output mid gen.

And it is possible that several studios are now working on PS6 titles instead of late PS5 titles, further delaying them.
Because if not, then which studio will make something for launch for PS6 in 2027-2028?
Or is everything going to be cross gen? Zero exclusives?

 

[viveks86]

Most games do have full ragdoll tho, the vast majority of games where you kill stuff really.

I think the game is not using ragdoll at all, maybe some more variations in the kills so they look more directional but any expert player is gonna notice thaat are not dynamic by the time you kill the first enemy, they literally glue in the terrain with a fixed position...

Sucker punch has always been allergic to ragdoll, in their infamous games and now in their samurai games.

Here's a compilation of all takedown animations on regular enemies in GoT. Regardless of stance, there are only 2 ways they all die. Drop to knees and face plant (slowly or quickly) or fall backwards.



Those 2 animations are there in GoY as well, but a lot of weapon specific ones with directionality and movement have been added

Flip and roll away

Same move, but fall to a lower level. Notice how the final roll doesn't complete and his body rolls back a little with weight transfer

Spear with a pull to the right. Notice how his leg bounces/lifts due to sudden shifting of weight as he collapses

Odachi with a pull to the left

Odachi upper cut

All the falls look quite natural. I think what would establish if this is actual ragdolling or just more canned animations is if we see how these moves look when there are collisions that interrupt the fall. The second gif has it a little bit, but too brief to be conclusive. This wasn't even a possibility in GoT as they all drop straight down. But now that enemies are flipping and rolling and can be pushed off cliffs as well, it's all going to look broken without some ragdoll physics in place. We shall see

 

[Tobimacoss]

Will we see Ghost of Yeti mods when this game comes to PC?

 

[Boss Mog]

That was awful. Simplistic shit out of Tenchu on the PS1. Where's the katana? Where's the complex and challenging katana fighting?

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Nah I don't think that's true.

Ratchet, GT7, Demon's Souls, Forbidden West, Returnal, Ragnarök, Spider-Man 2, Astrobot.
It's been alright.

Games are fine.

Whats interesting is Sony is now trying to save money on development while previously they used to work with a blank cheque.

Thats the only noteworthy change IMO.

I remember pushback Avowed got due to lack of polish at reveal. GOY seems like in a similar place. Will look good overall, just Avowed I feel. But doesn't have that extra polish.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I feel like GET OVER HERE doesn't help the gameplay at all

 

[Nintendo's Witch]

the first one is serviceable at best, easy pass.

 

[Lorianus]

That was awful. Simplistic shit out of Tenchu on the PS1. Where's the katana? Where's the complex and challenging katana fighting?

Where was the "complex katana fighting" in the first game ?, i swear people are ragebaiting like the first game had platinum or team ninja combat like rise of the ronin or something.

 

[Fess]

I remember pushback Avowed got due to lack of polish at reveal. GOY seems like in a similar place. Will look good overall, just Avowed I feel. But doesn't have that extra polish.

Flame me all you want but Avowed got WAY too much pushback. The character design is meh and interactivity is a joke but the combat gameplay is super solid and the environment and general fidelity is great. It's also still the only UE5 game I've played with more or less rock solid performance on my PCs.
I need to go back and finish it, it's one of the games I've enjoyed the most this year.

 

[GymWolf]

Here's a compilation of all takedown animations on regular enemies in GoT. Regardless of stance, there are only 2 ways they all die. Drop to knees and face plant (slowly or quickly) or fall backwards.



Those 2 animations are there in GoY as well, but a lot of weapon specific ones with directionality and movement have been added

Flip and roll away

Same move, but fall to a lower level. Notice how the final roll doesn't complete and his body rolls back a little with weight transfer

Spear with a pull to the right. Notice how his leg bounces/lifts due to sudden shifting of weight as he collapses

Odachi with a pull to the left

Odachi upper cut

All the falls look quite natural. I think what would establish if this is actual ragdolling or just more canned animations is if we see how these moves look when there are collisions that interrupt the fall. The second gif has it a little bit, but too brief to be conclusive. This wasn't even a possibility in GoT as they all drop straight down. But now that enemies are flipping and rolling and can be pushed off cliffs as well, it's all going to look broken without some ragdoll physics in place. We shall see

I hope you are right but i'm 99,99% sure those are just different animations and not dynamic at all, i got fooled in the past by other games when i watched the trailers but it's gonna be crystal clear when we are gonna play the game because the repetion is gonna be noticeable unless they made 10.000 unique death animations for every weapon and enemy type (but even with that you would still notice the lack of ragdoll).

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Flame me all you want but Avowed got WAY too much pushback. The character design is meh and interactivity is a joke but the combat gameplay is super solid and the environment and general fidelity is great. It's also still the only UE5 game I've played with more or less rock solid performance on my PCs.
I need to go back and finish it, it's one of the games I've enjoyed the most this year.

Its did because of that Elon Musk controversy.

Game is good, my top 5 this year.

 

[Fess]

Its did because of that Elon Musk controversy.

Game is good, my top 5 this year.

That and the usual console war. It's really the most solid 8 ever, combat and parkour is nearly perfect for the perspective, looks extremely good too at times, map layout is great as well.
But I can't go higher because of the static cities and interactivity issues, it's just not up to date, makes it feel like a SNES RPG. Bethesda should share some knowledge on that, they're all sitting under the same roof now.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

That and the usual console war. It's really the most solid 8 ever, combat and parkour is nearly perfect for the perspective, looks extremely good too at times, map layout is great as well.
But I can't go higher because of the static cities and interactivity issues, it's just not up to date, makes it feel like a SNES RPG. Bethesda should share some knowledge on that, they're all sitting under the same roof now.

Bethesda should simply share the engine. Would like more rpgs build on it. Would loose RT, nanite but will gain interactivity, physics based stuff.

But too late now. Obsidian seems all in on UE considering all 3 games they are releasing this year is on it.

They also seem decently competent, they got good performance in Avowed and class leading draw distances. I just want Outer Worlds level of interactivity from them. That should suffice since they are using UE.

 

[Fess]

Bethesda should simply share the engine. Would like more rpgs build on it. Would loose RT, nanite but will gain interactivity, physics based stuff.

Could just share some knowledge on how important is. It must be possible to have interactivity and physics no matter what engine you have. I think it's extremely important, makes the smoke and mirrors always there in games less obvious. If you enter a shop and hack a big sword into a table full of trinkets you kinda expect stuff to move at least a little and the shopkeeper to at minimum flinch lol

 

[Boss Mog]

Where was the "complex katana fighting" in the first game ?, i swear people are ragebaiting like the first game had platinum or team ninja combat like rise of the ronin or something.

There were different stances that could each be used to facilitate breaking the guard of enemy weapons. When facing multiple opponents you could achieve some nice cinematic looking combos by mixing up attack with dodges and parries and switching up stances. It was a lot more involved than just throwing a sickle and killing the dude. Maybe Yotei has all of that but I haven't seen it so far and SP would be better off showing interesting combat rather than boring combat. Saying something looks uninspired isn't "rage-baiting", it's called having an opinion but it seems some people get their panties in a bunch when other people's opinions don't line up with theirs.

 

[coachmcguirk91]

Because artists have a responsibility to inspire us. To push our imagination. Precisely because we lack it. Imagine if da vinci or Michelangelo just sat there drawing tits all day because that's what people wanted. Nah they pushed themselves, to be the best, and couldn't care less about what the fines drones wanted.

There was an interview with Nolan recently where he was so shocked to find out some filmmakers go into a movie thinking of it as a job where to them good enough is good enough. He said he wanted every movie he made to be the best movie he's made. Otherwise what's the point?

And he's working with a medium that's been pretty much tapped out. Gaming is still relatively new and full of possibilities. Forget graphics. They had the cpu upgrade they ignored. The ssd upgrade they ignored. The gameplay changes you listed are laughably pathetic. Its the complete opposite of Nolan's mentality. They are settling for mediocrity.

Nolan is such a silly comparison. He is literally the one filmmaker with an unlimited budget and resources. It is like saying why can't every game look like GTA 6.

All studios are given a timeline and a budget. From your perspective, if the game looked like Hellblade 2, but kept the exact same gameplay loop, you would be singing the games praises. But, as you said, most gamers don't care about graphics. You have a minority perspective

Game development is about working with finite resources. 4 years is not a lot of time nowadays. Sucker Punch chose to focus on gameplay changes instead of overhauling the games engine to persue graphic fidelity. Maybe the gameplay changes are mediocre and dissapointing. Who knows? But GOY seems like the one Playstation sequel that properly evolves from its predecessor in tangible ways

 

[Bojji]

Shadow vs Yotei

Generational difference.

 

[winjer]

On a positive note, it's good to see they finally added spears that the player can use.
It was really weird in Ghost of Tsushima, that we, as a samurai, couldn't use the main weapon of a samurai in a war.

 

[R3TRO]

The graphics stink and it looks like something I've already played...But day one I guess.

 

[Gaiff]

On a positive note, it's good to see they finally added spears that the player can use.
It was really weird in Ghost of Tsushima, that we, as a samurai, couldn't use the main weapon of a samurai in a war.

The main weapon was a bow, but the main melee weapon was a spear, aye.

Spears always get cucked by swords in popular fiction when they did 90% of the work in real life. They're just not as sexy. Almost every time, the legendary weapon is a sword, which is seen as the weapon of kings.

 

[drotahorror]

Looks like she's just running around massacring innocent villagers.

 

[drotahorror]

I didn't liked GoT and this doesn't look any better…..I'm done with Sony's western games.

Housemarque would like a word with you.

 

[winjer]

The main weapon was a bow, but the main melee weapon was a spear, aye.

Spears always get cucked by swords in popular fiction when they did 90% of the work in real life. They're just not as sexy. Almost every time, the legendary weapon is a sword, which is seen as the weapon of kings.

We had the bow in Tsushima, so that was accurate. Though the game didn't portray it as the main weapon of the samurai.
What was really inaccurate was that the katana was the main weapon for most of the game.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Generational difference.

Looking at the ground it looks like they took inspiration from Pokemon for Yotei.

 

[Gaiff]

We had the bow in Tsushima, so that was accurate. Though the game didn't portray it as the main weapon of the samurai.
What was really inaccurate was that the katana was the main weapon for most of the game.

Yeah, that's an L honestly. There's no freakin' way Jin wouldn't have used spears, especially given that he worked on limited resources. Big miss for a game that strived for historical accuracy on many aspects.

 

[Msamy]

Nolan is such a silly comparison. He is literally the one filmmaker with an unlimited budget and resources. It is like saying why can't every game look like GTA 6.

All studios are given a timeline and a budget. From your perspective, if the game looked like Hellblade 2, but kept the exact same gameplay loop, you would be singing the games praises. But, as you said, most gamers don't care about graphics. You have a minority perspective

Game development is about working with finite resources. 4 years is not a lot of time nowadays. Sucker Punch chose to focus on gameplay changes instead of overhauling the games engine to persue graphic fidelity. Maybe the gameplay changes are mediocre and dissapointing. Who knows? But GOY seems like the one Playstation sequel that properly evolves from its predecessor in tangible ways

If you gonna build a game with last gen graphics and same assets what the point of it talking 5 or more year's to make, the major reason this gen for games to take long time in development is because upgraded visuals and new assets. .so There no reason for them to take this long other than being lazy or the talent leaving the studio this not tsushima case which build from scratch and I even Remember that they developed many prototypes for other game ideas before decide developing toshima which is not the case for yoti

 

[KyoZz]

Ubisoft AI? Boring animation that already repeats itself in a 90 second clip? Flat lighting?

You're supposed to improve with a sequel... Dafuk is happening at Sony HQ.

 

[Ar¢tos]

If you gonna build a game with last gen graphics and same assets what the point of it talking 5 or more year's to make, the major reason this gen for games to take long time in development is because upgraded visuals and new assets. .so There no reason for them to take this long other than being lazy or the talent leaving the studio this not tsushima case which build from scratch and I even Remember that they developed many prototypes for other game ideas before decide developing toshima which is not the case for yoti

It's worse than that.
5 years to reskin Tsushima and somehow they made some textures look worse!
Is this a cash grab made by a B team while the main team is doing something else?

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

IMO people would be ok with graphics if this wouldn't be that similar to GoT. The setting, the world structure, the gameplay, everything's taken from the original at 85-90% so obviously people expect an upgrade that justifies this being a full priced sequel.

The game may be good but it's clearly not a high effort by Sucker Punch or Sony. They have just made the bare minimum to produce something, just like Hellblade 2 compared to Hellblade. The problem is that doesn't cut it. Not if they want to stay as the brand pushing the boundaries. This doesn't.

You can tell by the "story" itself. Another fucking revenge story. Whoa... original. It can't get any lazier than that.

 

[winjer]

Yeah, that's an L honestly. There's no freakin' way Jin wouldn't have used spears, especially given that he worked on limited resources. Big miss for a game that strived for historical accuracy on many aspects.

Also consider that Jin spends a lot of time riding a horse. A spear would have been the perfect weapon for it.
We even get the horse charge in the DLC, but somehow we didn't get to use a spear with it. Major swing and a miss.

 

[hemo memo]

I mean where are the counters etc? Just one shot kill.

 

[kruis]

I loved this comment from another forum:

"Have to give props to the devs for taking a stand against AI in games and removing it entirely."

Savage.

 

[SlimySnake]

I mean where are the counters etc? Just one shot kill.

They only had 5 years and 4 months to make this game, that's not a lot of time nowadays. Time moves faster post covid because of time dialation. You can't add counters in just 1 year.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

What's the target FPS for this game? Video seemed like 30?

After playing the first at 120, no way I'm going back to a 30 fps experience.

 

[winjer]

What's the target FPS for this game? Video seemed like 30?

After playing the first at 120, no way I'm going back to a 30 fps experience.

60 fps.

 

[Msamy]

I loved this comment from another forum:

"Have to give props to the devs for taking a stand against AI in games and removing it entirely."

Savage.

The amount bullshit on that other from is truly outstanding

 

[thismeinteil]

Shadow vs Yotei

There's definitely a decent difference. I think too many are remembering the PS5 remaster, not the PS4 OG. That or it's one of those memory things where you remember the game looking better than it really did.

Having said that, I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm going to wait for reviews before I buy it.

 

[thismeinteil]

That looked not only damned crossgen, but boring as hell. What the hell happened at Sucker Punch? I thought they were going to eat AC:Shadows' lunch, but the opposite is the case.

Lol, Shadows pissed all over its own lunch and threw it in the trash. 5M "players," which means 2.5M-3.5M sales, in the same time span the other games in the series would be well on their way to 10M sales.

 

[viveks86]

EDIT: NVM I'm imagining things

 

[Audiophile]

It's crazy how Sony put out Spider-Man & God Of War in 2018, then Ghost Of Tsushima in 2020 and I loved all of them; but if you told me at the time that I'd be completely unexcited by all of their sequels on PS5 (two of them next-gen only), I would've laughed you out of the room.

Yet here we are.

Sony's first party is in the toilet.

 

[Ar¢tos]

It's crazy how Sony put out Spider-Man & God Of War in 2018, then Ghost Of Tsushima in 2020 and I loved all of them; but if you told me at the time that I'd be completely unexcited by all of their sequels on PS5 (two of them next-gen only), I would've laughed you out of the room.

Yet here we are.

Sony's first party is in the toilet.

Add Horizon Forbidden West to that list. I wasn't impressed by it, but of 4 it probably had the biggest visual improvements.