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[Brashnir]

For ER's, I think yes. If you are playing the entirety of a game, you owe something to a creator.

For small form playthroughs like QLs, I think it's much murkier.

And what about if they talk about a game on the podcast? What constitutes an ER and what is just play? You can see everything there is in Rocket League in the span of a QL.

Like for those endurance runs... then maybe?

The guys have said themselves before they don't like taking the piss by streaming full play throughs often.

I mean, we're talking about Mario Maker here. What even IS a full playthrough of that?

 

[yami4ct]

And what about if they talk about a game on the podcast? What constitutes an ER and what is just play? You can see everything there is in Rocket League in the span of a QL.

Talking about the game on the podcast is obviously different. You aren't encompassing the totality of the thing by just talking about it. When you are showing the whole game, it becomes an area where I do think that a creator would be justified in asking for compensation.

For something like Rocket League, if someone made a whole league where they were making money off of playing for the game, I do think it would be fine to ask for compensation. For one or two games? It's tough.

I just don't believe in completing writing off the idea of asking for compensations for LP scenarios.

For Patrick's case, he's made a whole video series purely off of Mario Maker. Given the scope and frequency of that, I do think Nintendo would be justified in asking for a cut.

Defining a line is really tough and wherever you do it is going to be arbitrary in some sense. I'm glad I'm not in the position to have to do that.

 

[justjim89]

So should Giant Bomb be cutting a check to publishers for every video they run?

I think the subscription model makes Giant Bomb different. Jeff has implied or directly said many times that if they were just running off of ad money and page clicks and traditional metrics they wouldn't be around. We give GB money for whatever they got on tap, not one specific game. Hell, people will watch them clean the office, listen to Jeff drive home from work, or buy shirts commemorating Dan's Taco Bell visits. It's more directly about the personalities than the games. Not to mention with them being a review outlet that'd be a hell of a conflict of interest.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

So if Nintendo get a cut based on making a product used on the streams then shouldn't whoever made his webcam get a cut of everything he makes? Shouldn't the people who made his PC components get something too? It's such a bullshit corporate practice; especially given that LPs are essentially free advertising for games.

 

[funkystudent]

So should Giant Bomb be cutting a check to publishers for every video they run?

I think if a publisher or developer wanted to make that argument then GB and any other gaming site would be fighting a up hill battle.

IMO the current model of "Lets Play" style video content could crumble any minute as soon as a group of publishers decide they want a slice of the money.


It basically comes down to if you think Lets Plays are derivative works or fair use and I think the derivative works argument has more solid ground to stand on

 

[Bowlie]

Giant Bomb #20 | You Should™

 

[TheMrPliskin]

Yeah, same here. I feel like random firefights will get boring pretty quickly.
Also with only 2 skills I wonder how much variety there will be. If I can convince a buddy of mine to get it I would still play it though, just not alone. Don't buy this game if you want to play it alone.

I think I'll probably pick it up as I sunk 100 hours into vanilla Destiny and I never played with anyone other than randoms so I'm sure I'll get enough enjoyment out of The Division considering my expectations are pretty low. It's just funny how similar it feels to Destiny.

 

[alr1ght]

Time to pay Konami for all the Metal Gear Scanlon episodes. Hey, give them a portion of subscription fees.

 

[The Dear Leader]

Video games are too corporate.

 

[justjim89]

So if Nintendo get a cut based on making a product used on the streams then shouldn't whoever made his webcam get a cut of everything he makes? Shouldn't the people who made his PC components get something too? It's such a bullshit corporate practice.

It's Mario Maker Mornings, not Logitech Lazy Sundays. Folks tune in for the Mario Maker.

 

[stump sock]

Time to pay Konami for all the Metal Gear Scanlon episodes. Hey, give them a portion of subscription fees.

hey, I'm not paying for MGS, you leave my money out of it

 

[tuxfool]

So if Nintendo get a cut based on making a product used on the streams then shouldn't whoever made his webcam get a cut of everything he makes? Shouldn't the people who made his PC components get something too? It's such a bullshit corporate practice.

Actually I think Nintendo should be paying a percentage to all their suppliers ever time somebody uses a WiiU.

 

[Brashnir]

I think the subscription model makes Giant Bomb different. Jeff has implied or directly said many times that if they were just running off of ad money and page clicks and traditional metrics they wouldn't be around. We give GB money for whatever they got on tap, not one specific game. Hell, people will watch them clean the office, listen to Jeff drive home from work, or buy shirts commemorating Dan's Taco Bell visits. It's more directly about the personalities than the games. Not to mention with them being a review outlet that'd be a hell of a conflict of interest.

you basically just made my point for me. Thanks.

 

[yami4ct]

So if Nintendo get a cut based on making a product used on the streams then shouldn't whoever made his webcam get a cut of everything he makes? Shouldn't the people who made his PC components get something too? It's such a bullshit corporate practice.

You don't get use of those components if you don't own them. I think that argument is disingenuous.

You can get a significant portion of a game's value purely by watching it. Do you get the whole value? Depends on the game, but most of the time no. That's what makes this a different scenario.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I'm not really firmly on one side or another. I feel like Nintendo isn't completely wrong in wanting something if people stream their games, but that is definitely something worth talking about.

Ironically I feel like for a game like Mario Maker it makes no sense at all, cause the game is more or less "infinite".
For something like Undertale though, where you play through the game to see the story....well. Let's just say, if the Undertale devs would try and get some percentage from Youtubers (Which will never happen anyway) I think I would be with them.

 

[justjim89]

you basically just made my point for me. Thanks.

I would say the difference is scale. Giant Bomb is a hell of a lot more significant than Patrick's Youtube channel, and more established as personality-driven. They've been doing it a a lot longer than most Youtubers.

 

[ThreePiMatt]

If we go by Wikipedia's simple definition of Fair Use:

Examples of fair use in United States copyright law include commentary, search engines, criticism, parody, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship. It provides for the legal, unlicensed citation or incorporation of copyrighted material in another author's work under a four-factor balancing test.

I think it could be argued that Mario Maker Mornings and various content on Giant Bomb don't necessarily qualify as Fair Use. Quick Looks, Bombasticas, Ranking of Fighters could probably be classified as criticism, but a lot of it is simply for entertainment purposes.

Its a shitty thing for Nintendo to do, and Nintendo is probably one of the few companies to be shitty enough to do it, but I don't think they're legally in the wrong.

 

[Brashnir]

I would say the difference is scale. Giant Bomb is a hell of a lot more significant than Patrick's Youtube channel, and more established as personality-driven. They've been doing it a a lot longer than most Youtubers.

So if you're big enough, you're immune to whatever actually makes sense? Sounds like an accurate read of our ridiculous copyright laws.

 

[yami4ct]

I'm not really firmly on one side or another. I feel like Nintendo isn't completely wrong in wanting something if people stream their games, but that is definitely something worth talking about.

Ironically I feel like for a game like Mario Maker it makes no sense at all, cause the game is more or less "infinite".
For something like Undertale though, where you play through the game to see the story....well. Let's just say, if the Undertale devs would try and get some percentage from Youtubers (Which will never happen anyway) I think I would be with them.

I'm mostly with you. For me, whether a game deserves compensation is heavily dependent on the type of game and the scale of the content the user is making. For something like Mario Maker, I do think that there should be a larger hurdle for compensation. Since Patrick made a giant video series about it, though, I kind of am partly on Nintendo's side if he were to monetize.

The law doesn't work well in gray areas, so actually codifying something fair would be nearly impossible.

 

[Piston Hyundai]

D:

"accomplish"

also most of the twitch streams I watch are based on the game and not the person playing it

 

[ratcliffja]

So if Nintendo get a cut based on making a product used on the streams then shouldn't whoever made his webcam get a cut of everything he makes? Shouldn't the people who made his PC components get something too? It's such a bullshit corporate practice; especially given that LPs are essentially free advertising for games.

The type of web cam and PC don't largely affect the enjoyment of the viewers as long as they're sufficiently powerful. As a comparison, I don't think Patrick would be getting the same viewership for Little Big Planet instead of Super Mario Maker. Nintendo made a very compelling product that is enticing enough to allow people to make money. I think that's sufficient reason for them to ask for a cut.

 

[NumberThree]

I would say the difference is scale. Giant Bomb is a hell of a lot more significant than Patrick's Youtube channel, and more established as personality-driven. They've been doing it a a lot longer than most Youtubers.

Yeah make things more difficult for the small guy and easier for big corporations. Makes sense.

 

[Brashnir]

Should everyone who streams basketball trick shots have to send a portion of the proceeds to the estate of James Naismith?

 

[randomlyrossy]

Disappointed to report no one started shit in response to my GiantBomb t-shirt at the Lazer Team (Rooster Teeth movie) screening. Damn nerds.

(Movie was pretty alright for those interested. Though the scene where a Jeff Gerstmann lookalike gets nuked by a Fat Man was kinda out of place.)

 

[MassiveNights]

Yeah, I didn't post the thing because his point was absurd in theory, it's just unusual/jarring to see that kind of arrogance from the within the group of pretty chill dudes we follow. Full YouTube.

 

[yami4ct]

Should everyone who streams basketball trick shots have to send a portion of the proceeds to the estate of James Naismith?

You don't get a significant portion of the value of a basketball purely by watching someone do trick shots. For a large number of games, you do get a significant chunk by watching them played. That's what makes it different in my mind.

 

[ThreePiMatt]

Should everyone who streams basketball trick shots have to send a portion of the proceeds to the estate of James Naismith?

Quit being obtuse.

 

[Brashnir]

You don't get a significant portion of the value of a basketball purely by watching someone do trick shots. For a large number of games, you do get a significant chunk by watching them played. That's what makes it different in my mind.

Mario Maker?

 

[Piston Hyundai]

Disappointed to report no one started shit in response to my GiantBomb t-shirt at the Lazer Team (Rooster Teeth movie) screening.

joke's on you, you went to a rooster teeth movie

 

[SomberOwl]

Is there a thread on Gaf for PC recommendations? I'm just looking to buy a basic computer, not a gaming one. I have a couple specific things I want out of it. My googling is leading me nowhere.

 

[justjim89]

So if you're big enough, you're immune to whatever actually makes sense? Sounds like an accurate read of our ridiculous copyright laws.

Take away Mario Maker from Giant Bomb and tell me how different the website is, how many subs drop.

Then take away Mario Maker from Patrick's channel and tell me how many subs and video views he loses.

Nintendo's game is a cornerstone of his content, and I'd say it's fair to guess that without it his numbers would go down significantly. Meanwhile, Giant Bomb could cancel something as beloved as say Metal Gear Scanlon tomorrow and I'd wager that they wouldn't lose nearly as much.

 

[yami4ct]

Mario Maker?

You do get a large portion value of the levels being played by watching them, yes. Much more so than basketballs and trick shots.

Since Mario Maker is a toolset based thing, I do agree the bar should be higher than something story based. I do think Patrick's case would be an example where I agree Nintendo would be due some compensation.

Again, this is purely a theoretical/moralistic argument. Legally, I acknowledge my thoughts have almost zero way to actually be implemented.

 

[tchocky]

Is there a thread on Gaf for PC recommendations? I'm just looking to buy a basic computer, not a gaming one. I have a couple specific things I want out of it. My googling is leading me nowhere.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1094682

 

[justjim89]

Disappointed to report no one started shit in response to my GiantBomb t-shirt at the Lazer Team (Rooster Teeth movie) screening. Damn nerds.

(Movie was pretty alright for those interested. Though the scene where a Jeff Gerstmann lookalike gets nuked by a Fat Man was kinda out of place.)

For real? Wow.

 

[Zekes!]

People streaming as a profession is still pretty weird to me. And by that I'm specifically talking about individuals who just stream themselves playing games on twitch or youtube. I mean, big ups to you if you're out there getting it, but I gotta wonder what a lot of people's end goals are. Being a professional streamer just doesn't seem like it has long term viability. Do people really think they'll still be streaming 10-15 years down the line? What are they going to do if that doesn't pan out and their in their late 20's or 30's and they don't have any viable job skills?

I've come across a few streamers now who only have a few thousand followers, but talk about how they stream full time as their job and how they need more support because they make no money. Like yo...I don't want to tell people how to live their lives, but you oughta be out the working a part-time job until you've at least built yourself up a sizeable base that helps to generate you steady income.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Is there a thread on Gaf for PC recommendations? I'm just looking to buy a basic computer, not a gaming one. I have a couple specific things I want out of it. My googling is leading me nowhere.

Try this one
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1094682&page=245

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

Disappointed to report no one started shit in response to my GiantBomb t-shirt at the Lazer Team (Rooster Teeth movie) screening. Damn nerds.

(Movie was pretty alright for those interested. Though the scene where a Jeff Gerstmann lookalike gets nuked by a Fat Man was kinda out of place.)

I saw that was playing at the Drafthouse. You could not pay me to go see that film.

 

[yami4ct]

I saw that was playing at the Drafthouse. You could not pay me to go see that film.

Even as someone who really used to enjoy some of RT's stuff, that movie looked like utter trash when I saw the trailer playing in front of something at the Drafthouse. Some of their stuff holds up, but I can't figure out if they got dumber or I just grew up. I think it's a combination of the two.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I saw that was playing at the Drafthouse. You could not pay me to go see that film.

Why not though?
Movies based on Youtube channels have such a great history. Remember the Smosh Movie? What a hit!

 

[popo]

Has Chuck been sext'ing Tony the Tiger?

 

[Brashnir]

Has Chuck been sext'ing Tony the Tiger?

wat

 

[yami4ct]

wat

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1177338

The internet does what the internet does. PR person running the Tony twitter acknowledges it for some reason.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

Even as someone who really used to enjoy some of RT's stuff, that movie looked like utter trash when I saw the trailer playing in front of something at the Drafthouse. Some of their stuff holds up, but I can't figure out if they got dumber or I just grew up. I think it's a combination of the two.

It certainly looked like a garbage fire. What movie was the trailer in front of? I go to the Drafthouse 3 times a month and I haven't seen it there.

Why not though?
Movies based on Youtube channels have such a great history. Remember the Smosh Movie? What a hit!

I don't know what that is and I don't wanna.

 

[yami4ct]

It certainly looked like a garbage fire. What movie was the trailer in front of? I go to the Drafthouse 3 times a month and I haven't seen it there.

I think it was The Hateful Eight.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I don't know what that is and I don't wanna.

If you don't want to know what it is, click on this link

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

I think it was The Hateful Eight.

Huh. Weird. Which Drafthouse?

If you don't want to know what it is, click on this link

You've tricked me.

 

[stump sock]

I think it's funny how many people think Andrew House speaks Japanese without an accent (Alex this time). Pronunciation and accent are two different things. He clearly knows his shit; he still has an accent.

 

[Brashnir]

Why not though?
Movies based on Youtube channels have such a great history. Remember the Smosh Movie? What a hit!

I'll admit to watching the AVGN movie.

Spoiler

It wasn't good

 

[yami4ct]

Huh. Weird. Which Drafthouse?

Kalamazoo, MI.

I honestly can't believe one opened up here. It was the best thing ever. Never go anywhere else now.

I'll admit to watching the AVGN movie.

Spoiler

It wasn't good

Holy shit, this is a thing? Are movies based on youtube dummies a trend that I just never noticed?

Never have I felt older.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I think it's funny how many people think Andrew House speaks Japanese without an accent (Alex this time). Pronunciation and accent are two different things. He clearly knows his shit; he still has an accent.

You should write an angry youtube comment about that.