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Giant Bomb #6 | You'd be hard pressed to find 10 better threads this year.

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M

Manbig

Member
jacobs34 said:
Come on, I was just making a joke to try to lighten up the mood in this thread. Of course buying new consoles are considerable financial investments, but when people get so fired up to the point where they are attacking anyone who doesn't hold their own opinion when it comes to the importance of resolution and frame rate in a handful of launch titles, then I think it's time to reevaluate. I think this is true for us and the gaming press.

If gaming outlets start outright lying about game's resolution and/or frame rate that's one thing, but what is going on in this thread right now is a little bit silly. Just my opinion, I apologize if I've offended anyone.
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Fair enough. I apologize for coming on strong, but it's a pet peeve of mine when people drive by with that joke every time a discussion about video games gets heated.
 
R

rudds

Name 10 better posters this year
plexcide said:
For someone who has already stated on numerous venues that you are bored and fed up with this discussion and that the children on the forums should just wait quietly, having you show up here now that there's a scratch on the PS4's armor is a little ironic. I'm actually more on your side on this but this sudden interest makes me laugh.
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That's a fair point. I think this pulled me back in because I want to hope people will be capable of having a reasoned discussion about both sides of the issue now that it's become less black-and-white, but that's probably a pipe dream.
 
L

LiK

Member
Wunderbar

0017A404-1B9C-4AD6-BEDC-F6005B0433BE-2453-0000068A521DEB9A_zpsb2919a65.jpg
 
X

Xater

Member
Still no COD on the schedule. I need to see more of this game. I already thought MW3 was insufferable, but a COD that gets so many 7s must be a total shit show.
 
T

TentPole

Member
rudds said:
That's a fair point. I think this pulled me back in because I want to hope people will be capable of having a reasoned discussion about both sides of the issue now that it's become less black-and-white, but that's probably a pipe dream.
Click to expand...

Seems a little hypocritical after you come through with drive-by post without much actual engagement with the people trying to respond to you.
 
W

Wereroku

Member
rudds said:
That's a fair point. I think this pulled me back in because I want to hope people will be capable of having a reasoned discussion about both sides of the issue now that it's become less black-and-white, but that's probably a pipe dream.
Click to expand...

Brad great livestream really enjoyed watching it. So are you confirming for us that Jeff is saying that the Xbox one version has a solid 60fps framerate with no dips? That would make the choice less black and white.
 
X

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
rudds said:
That's a fair point. I think this pulled me back in because I want to hope people will be capable of having a reasoned discussion about both sides of the issue now that it's become less black-and-white, but that's probably a pipe dream.
Click to expand...

You should not be here Brad. Volgarr is waiting!
 
P

panda21

Member
it sounds like COD of Duty Ghosts on Xbone has current gen graphics at 720p/60fps. but then why would you buy that and not the PS3/360/Wii U version?
 
M

MiniBossBattle

Member
LiK said:
Wunderbar

0017A404-1B9C-4AD6-BEDC-F6005B0433BE-2453-0000068A521DEB9A_zpsb2919a65.jpg
Click to expand...

Just wanted to say thanks to GiantBomb and their supporters. My awesome nephews were born there.

Brad; What is the first video game I should play with/introduce them to? I want to be the cool uncle (not the "you want some fireworks kids?" cool)
 
K

komplanen

Member
rudds said:
That's a fair point. I think this pulled me back in because I want to hope people will be capable of having a reasoned discussion about both sides of the issue now that it's become less black-and-white, but that's probably a pipe dream.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response :) A appreciate it. Personally I think it sucks that a game that looks as bad as CoD:Ghosts runs crappy on Xbone (resolution) and crappy on PS4 (framerate). It should look better on both consoles even if it's a launch title. Just look at other launch titles for comparison and CoD looks the weaker of the bunch. It's kinda a shame and makes one wonder what on earth are Activision doing? Where's their next-gen engine?

I'm sure other people will contribute as well but as a reminder the whole "resolution gate" obviously isn't just about CoD. I haven't heard any mentions of performance issues for the PS4 on Battlefield yet there's a clear difference on the visuals and some even mentioned slight frame rate issues on the Xbone. Go figure LOL
 
P

popo

Member
Xater said:
Still no COD on the schedule. I need to see more of this game. I already thought MW3 was insufferable, but a COD that gets so many 7s must be a total shit show.
Click to expand...

It only goes on the schedule if it had been recorded or a live show has been confirmed. Jeff said on tumblr that they hope to do a QL live today but it will only put it on the schedule when they have decided on a start time.


TheLegendOfMart said:
I like GB but I don't feel I need to white knight them like some of "you" are doing, you even have Brad as your avatar, how creepy is that.
Click to expand...

I think you got called out because you resorted to name calling. You don't have to like everyone but I think it is fair to ask people keep it civil.
 
K

komplanen

Member
I'd really appreciate a proper online mp Windjammers on a next gen (and current gen) consoles. It'd be awesome. Just looking at the GB guys play it made me salivate. So simple yet so... deep :-D
 
R

rudds

Name 10 better posters this year
TentPole said:
Well for a long time Brad in particular seemed pretty convinced that there would be no real world difference.
Click to expand...

This is a fallacy I really have to address, because it's apparently become so distorted in some people's minds.

I talked to some developers the day after the PS4 announcement in February who were already familiar with both systems, who told me that multiplatform games using roughly the same effects but running at higher resolutions on the PS4 was one potential outcome of the GPU being somewhat more powerful on the Sony side. I've never for one second thought the PS4 didn't have an advantage in a couple of key areas. But those same devs also identified the ESRAM on the Xbox as a potential equalizer that may help bring games closer to parity, but thought that the design was too esoteric to say for sure how much it would help just by looking at the numbers. Now, as then, it's too early to predict exactly what effect that design will have until programmers get more proficient with it. I'll cite this example till I'm blue in the face, but look at the difference between Perfect Dark Zero and Gears of War and think about why it's premature to declare a machine dead in the water on day one. Launch software is always wonky for a huge variety of reasons. Check back a year from now.

My original point was that a) the disparity between the two systems may not be as big as people were acting like at the time, and b) regardless of how big the gulf ends up being, it won't be a determining factor in the success of the consoles because being more powerful has never, ever been the reason one machine moved more units than another in any generation of video games ever. I certainly don't remember this degree of vitriol toward the PS2, the faraway market leader that was also significantly less powerful than the other two systems at the time.
 
P

PBY

Banned
Patryn said:
I suspect it's more a reaction to constantly being bombarded by people demanding that they comment on this whole issue. They've likely been inundated by e-mails, PMs and the like constantly asking them to talk about it, and they're getting fed up.

I'm sure they'll vilify the XBox One... on the 22nd. Just as I'm sure the PS4 will get lambasted on the 15th.

Neither of those streams are going to happy. It's going to be a lot of sighs as shit doesn't work, a lot of Jeff deadpan faces to the camera, a lot of backhanded comments about how the graphics don't look that remarkably better than the current gen of consoles, and a lot of talk about how people would be better off getting a new PC.

Basically, it'll be the Wii U launch day stream all over again.
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This x100000000.

I know that when the PS4 stream happens, gaf is gonna lose it, scream bias etc etc. And then a week later the same thing will happen with the Xbox One.
 
N

n0n44m

Member
Jeff is classy, doesn't comment on resolution issues too much as he already knew about PS4 framerates issues.

Navarro and Klepek are just going "lalala we can't hear you" at the moment, acting as if 2.25 times more pixels is something you only notice when you're a madman with a magnifying glass. Yes gameplay matters most, no you don't have to declare the Xbox One to be finished, but just don't insult my intelligence please.

I'll stick to quick looks for now :)

also lol CoD, let's look at BF4 for the more interesting next-gen comparisons (with an engine that can actually use the power)
 
P

PBY

Banned
n0n44m said:
Jeff is classy, doesn't comment on resolution issues too much as he already knew about PS4 framerates issues.

Navarro and Klepek are just going "lalala we can't hear you" at the moment, acting as if 2.25 times more pixels is something you only notice when you're a madman with a magnifying glass. Yes gameplay matters most, no you don't have to declare the Xbox One to be finished, but just don't insult my intelligence please.

I'll stick to quick looks for now :)

also lol CoD, let's look at BF4 for the more interesting next-gen comparisons (with an engine that can actually use the power)
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Mannnn. Brad just posted a really well thought out post literally 2 posts up. But naw.

It's like all of the Internet is ignoring what these people are actually saying, because they didn't say exactly what you wanted to hear.
 
R

rudds

Name 10 better posters this year
Dragon said:
Let's hope it doesn't take them two hours to download the patches on the new systems. That shit is absurd. Although if they're getting them early then I assume they'd have time to do that themselves.
Click to expand...

If possible, we're hoping to keep one of each console patch-free till the live streams, so we'll have updated machines to play games on right away but can also see how smoothly the patching process is in the background. That may or may not be feasible depending on the state of the review hardware we get in, though.
 
K

komplanen

Member
rudds said:
If possible, we're hoping to keep one of each console patch-free till the live streams, so we'll have updated machines to play games on right away but can also see how smoothly the patching process is in the background. That may or may not be feasible depending on the state of the review hardware we get in, though.
Click to expand...

Any concrete date you can talk to us about regarding when you'll get the systems?
 
X

Xater

Member
rudds said:
If possible, we're hoping to keep one of each console patch-free till the live streams, so we'll have updated machines to play games on right away but can also see how smoothly the patching process is in the background. That may or may not be feasible depending on the state of the review hardware we get in, though.
Click to expand...

I would like to know what the review embargo is on the first party titles. I assume MS demands everything to be on lock down until launch, but what about Sony?
 
R

RE_Player

Member
I think after the mess the Wii U launch was for them, update taking forever and only being able to check out a handful of games, they will be more prepared. I hope they do some comparisons of current and next gen though. Maybe switch between a PS3 and PS4 feed and a 360 and Xbox One feed for cross gen games.

Maybe go through that whole $10 PS3 to PS4 game update live.
 
C

Curufinwe

Member
rudds said:
That's a fair point. I think this pulled me back in because I want to hope people will be capable of having a reasoned discussion about both sides of the issue now that it's become less black-and-white, but that's probably a pipe dream.
Click to expand...

How is it less black and white? Unless you are confirming that the Xbone version of Ghosts never drops below 60 fps... in which case new thread for new news.

If you would like to have a reasoned discussion about the graphical differences between a game like Battlefield 4 where both versions have already been played and captured by journalists then go right ahead. Hell, I'll start. What do you think of the fact that the PS4 version of BF 4 runs at a 56% higher resolution, has more effects enabled, and also runs at a higher average framerate than the Xbone version? Was this a surprise to you?
 
F

funkystudent

Member
rudds said:
My original point was that a) the disparity between the two systems may not be as big as people were acting like at the time, and b) regardless of how big the gulf ends up being, it won't be a determining factor in the success of the consoles because being more powerful has never, ever been the reason one machine moved more units than another in any generation of video games ever. I certainly don't remember this degree of vitriol toward the PS2, the faraway market leader that was also significantly less powerful than the other two systems at the time.
Click to expand...

The ps2 was also cheaper then the competition though. Same with the Wii and the ps1.

This might actually be the first time the most powerful system is also the cheapest?

If the Xbox One cost 299 I think people would be ok with the power difference but its not. Its $100 more for a weaker system which is also part of the problem people have.
 
T

TheLegendOfMart

Banned
popo said:
I think you got called out because you resorted to name calling. You don't have to like everyone but I think it is fair to ask people keep it civil.
Click to expand...

Fair enough I apologise to Patrick and Alex if they are reading and to the people in the thread, I went a bit far with the name calling but their attitude just riles me up.
 
E

EmCeeGramr

Member
The PS2 vitriol wasn't as bad because it launched a year earlier with the Dreamcast as its competition, MGS2 blowing faces off, it had like, 90% of Japan in its pocket as exclusives, and people were super skeptical about both the GC and Xbox from the start.

Even then, I remember quite a few people flinging shit at it. Hell, even Dreamcast fans got into the madness when the first real RRV screenshots came out and Jaggiepocalypse 2000 began. There were still people years later contending that Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 would have to be downgraded to run on PS2.
 
P

panda21

Member
rudds said:
Now, as then, it's too early to predict exactly what effect that design will have until programmers get more proficient with it. I'll cite this example till I'm blue in the face, but look at the difference between Perfect Dark Zero and Gears of War and think about why it's premature to declare a machine dead in the water on day one. Launch software is always wonky for a huge variety of reasons. Check back a year from now.

My original point was that a) the disparity between the two systems may not be as big as people were acting like at the time, and b) regardless of how big the gulf ends up being, it won't be a determining factor in the success of the consoles because being more powerful has never, ever been the reason one machine moved more units than another in any generation of video games ever. I certainly don't remember this degree of vitriol toward the PS2, the faraway market leader that was also significantly less powerful than the other two systems at the time.
Click to expand...

things were very different with the PS2 though, there were much less multiplatform games and games like MGS were developed especially for the platform. nowadays a better comparison is PS3 vs 360, where a lot of multiplatform games were bad on ps3.

this time round it feels like the situation is reversed, except the 'bone won't ever be more powerful. sure people will make better xbone one games eventually but the same is true of the ps4.
 
G

ghst

thanks for the laugh
Brashnir said:
Like with every console generation, 90+% of people on the internet only care about performance differences when their team has the better performance. When their team is losing, it doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

i wonder how many post histories i can go through from the last four years of some of the more fervent sony cheerleaders and find them making the exact same arguments against investing in a PC.

having standards isn't a problem, it's just puzzling how inexorably tied some people's standards are to the performance of their preferred corporation's latest console.
 
C

Curufinwe

Member
rudds said:
My original point was that a) the disparity between the two systems may not be as big as people were acting like at the time, and b) regardless of how big the gulf ends up being, it won't be a determining factor in the success of the consoles because being more powerful has never, ever been the reason one machine moved more units than another in any generation of video games ever. I certainly don't remember this degree of vitriol toward the PS2, the faraway market leader that was also significantly less powerful than the other two systems at the time.
Click to expand...

The PS2 got a ton of shit at launch for not producing graphics as good as people expected based on the claims made about its power by Sony. I specifically remember the lack of AA being a huge issue. The PS2 also came out 12-18 months before the GameCube and the Xbox so it was understandable that it was less powerful. The Xbone and PS4 are coming out at exactly the same time, and the Xbone costs more.

In my opinion the Xbox 360 sold a lot of units based on the graphical quality of its exclusives and its mutilplatform titles. Having Gears come out looking as great as it did at the same times as the PS3 launched was huge, as was the fact Madden could only run at 30fps on the PS3 to start with. Being more powerful (in terms of RAM and GPU) absolutely helped push sales of the 360.
 
S

SummitAve

Banned
Curufinwe said:
The PS2 got a ton of shit at launch for not producing graphics as good as people expected based on the claims made about its power by Sony. I specifically remember the lack of AA being a huge issue. The PS2 also came out 12-18 months before the GameCube and the Xbox so it was understandable that it was less powerful. The Xbone and PS4 are coming out at exactly the same time, and the Xbone costs more.

In my opinion the Xbox 360 sold a lot of units based on the graphical quality of its exclusives and its mutilplatform titles. Having Gears come out looking as great as it did at the same times as the PS3 launched was huge, as was the fact Madden could only run at 30fps on the PS3 to start with. Being more powerful (in terms of RAM and GPU) absolutely helped push sales of the 360.
Click to expand...

Based on your own opinions I guess your arguement holds up.....I remember the online capabilites, xbla, and actual games having a lot more to do with those sales.
 
S

SteveWinwood

Member
EmCeeGramr said:
speaking of old console wars, time to re-pimp my old usenet thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=482425

there's some very familiar stuff in there. especially people complaining about jeff gerstmann being a biased shill because of his reviews
Click to expand...
He is a reviewer at a rather biased gaming website. By the way, I think
the editors of that site are getting irate with us talking about them like
this. :) Good. Maybe they will see that we aren't fooled by their
"journalism", and clean up their act.
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what year is it
 
C

Curufinwe

Member
SummitAve said:
Based on your own opinions I guess your arguement holds up.....I remember the online capabilites, xbla, and actual games having a lot more to do with those sales.
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You really think XBLA was a bigger reason for the mass market embracing the 360 than Gears of War?
 
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