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[EmCeeGramr]

This is where you lose me. How is this a revelation in any way? Did people think that the on paper specs wouldn't translate to a performance increase in the real world? It's not like Microsoft has been putting up billboards with "Xbox is is more powerful than the PS4". Were people that doubtful that this real world translation would occur? To me it was a no brainer and I skipped over the COD news without even flinching because it was so obvious.

I saw plenty of people during E3 and beyond insisting that in real world terms the difference would be negligible (cloud computing something something) and that technical parity would be just as close as this generation. You also had MS figureheads responding to reports of significant differences, not just with some "Well the games look great and are fun," but by hinting that the reports were false and that MS would never give up any kind of significant hardware advantage and that we'd all learn "the truth" as launch got closer.

 

[BearPawB]

Brad said "around here" so I thought he meant those types of threads.

Gotcha gotcha. Yeah i agree with what you said in that context

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Until then it seems that this discussion is way too couched in maybes, possibles and shoulds.

They have no issues talking about other rumours and unconfirmed stuff, why is it different for hardware?

In an industry where PS3 games scored lower than Xbox 360 games purely because of performance or detail issues now the Xbone is slower none of that matters anymore and its all about the games?

 

[Curufinwe]

Most people are incapable of understanding what specs translate to.

Did anyone on the Bombcast ever say something along the lines of:

"The PS4 has roughly the equivalent of a Radeon HD 7850, and the Xbone has a GPU similar to the 7770 so you would expect some graphical differences based on that."

I don't think that's too much to ask from primarily PC gamers who seem to get new graphics card quite often. Apologies if they did and I just missed it, but the closest I've heard to a basic explanation like that came from Loyd Case on the Tested podcast.

 

[SuperSonic1305]

This is where you lose me. How is this a revelation in any way? Did people think that the on paper specs wouldn't translate to a performance increase in the real world? It's not like Microsoft has been putting up billboards with "Xbox is is more powerful than the PS4". Were people that doubtful that this real world translation would occur? To me it was a no brainer and I skipped over the COD news without even flinching because it was so obvious.

Did you forget the Day One achievement that claims Xbox One is the most powerful console in the world?

 

[TentPole]

Why are they so reluctant to talk about the issue then, Brad is a "tech" interested guy yet he is scared to actually have an opinion on the matter.

I think most if not all journalist downplaying the issue are trying to give everything a fair shake and avoid any kneejerk reactions. I think that in some cases it can cause more hesitance than is probably needed.

 

[razgriz417]

Yeah, that's what I get for posting from my iPad.

Let me stress I'm not saying it's one way or the other, as I haven't played Ghosts on any platform. But I'm incredibly curious what the reaction would be around here if the other shoe dropped and it turned out neither version was ideal. Would everyone who spit fire about this issue backpedal or stick to their guns?

Soo Brad, we gonna get a new Breaking Brad now that you're playing Dark Souls? I'd take that over the 24 hour Dark Souls stream you promised

 

[Patryn]

They have no issues talking about other rumours, why is it different for hardware?

In an industry where PS3 games scored lower than Xbox 360 games purely because of performance or detail issues now the Xbone is slower none of that matters anymore and its all about the games?

I'm guessing because this tends to fall too close to the CONSOLE WARZ logic and arguments. For whatever reason, a large chunk (but not all) of the gaming community tends to lose their mind whenever differences between consoles are brought up. It's basically a minefield of a topic. It devolves into purity tests, where you have to prove your loyalty to a specific system.

I'd rather they tread with caution in this area for now. Come the 22nd, when they can utilize firsthand experience with the differences, all bets are off. If, at that point, they're not remarking on differences or they don't note trendlines based on released games favoring one consoles over another I'll say they're being negligent.

 

[komplanen]

I think most if not all journalist downplaying the issue are trying to give everything a fair shake and avoid any kneejerk reactions. I think that in some cases it can cause more hesitance than is probably needed.

It's the wisest to say nothing then. The GB dudes are going out of their way to say quite a lot if you ask me. Like our friend Brad here.

 

[Massa]

Here's what Major Nelson says:

"As I said above, Albert is one of the most amazing people I work with - that's why I invited him on my podcast a few weeks ago. I jab him a bit about posting on 'GAF (fact: they would not approve my account of there) but he's smart and driven. He's also right: We have some of smartest programmers in the world working on Xbox One. I am very much looking forward to the next few months (and beyond) as the truth comes out."

And Albert Penello:
"I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

I’m not saying they haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years… "

So basically we have Microsoft coming here making false statements like these, and then once we have irrefutable facts showing that they were indeed full of crap like all the leaks suggested, instead of questioning them for their lies we have Mr. Brad Shoemaker come in here and try to antagonize the "frothing Sony fanboys"?

Get real man. Seriously, what the fuck.

 

[Patryn]

It's the wisest to say nothing then. The GB dudes are going out of their way to say quite a lot if you ask me. Like our friend Brad here.

They're damned if they do, and damned if they don't. They choose not to say anything, so they get accused of being biased towards Microsoft. They attempt to explain why they're not saying anything, and they get called out on that.

What are they supposed to do?

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Still waiting to see what the unlimited power of the cloud gets you, currently it gets you 720p.

What are they supposed to do?

Not be arrogant, condescending assholes like Klepek and Navarro?

 

[Brashnir]

Strawman arguments like these are pretty damn pointless I must say.

This entire discussion is pointless.

 

[Curufinwe]

.Not be arrogant, condescending assholes like Klepek and Navarro?

What did they do exactly?

 

[BearPawB]

Here's what Major Nelson says:

"As I said above, Albert is one of the most amazing people I work with - that's why I invited him on my podcast a few weeks ago. I jab him a bit about posting on 'GAF (fact: they would not approve my account of there) but he's smart and driven. He's also right: We have some of smartest programmers in the world working on Xbox One. I am very much looking forward to the next few months (and beyond) as the truth comes out."

And Albert Penello:
"I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

I’m not saying they haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years… "

So basically we have Microsoft coming here making false statements like these, and then once we have irrefutable facts showing that they were indeed full of crap like all the leaks suggested, instead of questioning them for their lies we have Mr. Brad Shoemaker come in here and try to antagonize the "frothing Sony fanboys"?

Get real man. Seriously, what the fuck.

We have irrefutable facts about launch games. That are also performing poorly on ps4 (see ghosts framerates). We have no idea how the next ten years will shake out. Clearly ps4 has more potential power. Will people take advantage of it? Probably. But we really have no idea how far the xbox one will be lagging behind in a year. It still could be fairly nominal for most games.

 

[Dragon]

This entire discussion is pointless.

Why bother then if you feel that way? Man...

We have irrefutable facts about launch games. That are also performing poorly on ps4 (see ghosts framerates). We have no idea how the next ten years will shake out. Clearly ps4 has more potential power. Will people take advantage of it? Probably. But we really have no idea how far the xbox one will be lagging behind in a year. It still could be fairly nominal for most games.

To make a counterpoint, BF4 has a higher resolution and higher framerate on PS4. And we still don't know anything about the XB1 version of Ghosts besides that compressed youtube video which looked like a turd nugget. I think it's fair to say wait and see, but it's not fair to say resolution doesn't matter. Two totally different things and I think the main reason people are up in arms (besides the typical internet craziness).

 

[komplanen]

They're damned if they do, and damned if they don't. They choose not to say anything, so they get accused of being biased towards Microsoft. They attempt to explain why they're not saying anything, and they get called out on that.

What are they supposed to do?

GB'ers are making statement after statement on tumblr, twitter and NeoGAF about how stupid we are to get riled up over this. That isn't the same as saying nothing or saying "We'll talk about our comments when we have the consoles at hand." It seems to me like there's some weird hatred Brad, Patrick and Alex have towards everyone who isn't a bonafied journalist with tons of friends to get information on.

 

[jacobs34]

Video Games: Serious Business.

 

[TentPole]

It's the wisest to say nothing then. The GB dudes are going out of their way to say quite a lot if you ask me. Like our friend Brad here.

I am not saying that I like how they are acting about. I was responding to a post that claimed that their behavior was a result of wanting free Xbones. Brad has come off as pretty biased in the last year but I don't think that is enough to attack his integrity.

It seems to me like there's some weird hatred Brad, Patrick and Alex have towards everyone who isn't a bonafied journalist with tons of friends to get information on.

Yeah, this is far more troubling than any of their views on the next gen power struggle.

 

[Nestunt]

Yeah, that's what I get for posting from my iPad.

Let me stress I'm not saying it's one way or the other, as I haven't played Ghosts on any platform. But I'm incredibly curious what the reaction would be around here if the other shoe dropped and it turned out neither version was ideal. Would everyone who spit fire about this issue backpedal or stick to their guns?

Its like sports clubs or religion. Logical thinking does not trigger in the brain

People cant separate their monetary choices (buying only one) from fandom

thats why is so easy for athletes to get rich, Sony/MS or even certain "institutions of faith"

 

[Alo81]

We have irrefutable facts about launch games. That are also performing poorly on ps4 (see ghosts framerates).

I think one difference is that we don't know how significant the framerate difference is, though we do know the difference between 720p and 1080p rendering resolution.

 

[Antiwhippy]

GB'ers are making statement after statement on tumblr, twitter and NeoGAF about how stupid we are to get riled up over this. That isn't the same as saying nothing or saying "We'll talk about our comments when we have the consoles at hand." It seems to me like there's some weird hatred Brad, Patrick and Alex have towards everyone who isn't a bonafied journalist with tons of friends to get information on.

To be fair there are a lot of people in this thread calling them biased and stupid too.

 

[komplanen]

Video Games: Serious Business.

• Video game industry is worth billions of dollars.
• Video game coverage is worth millions of dollars.
• Journalists claim they are doing us a favor
• Are actually not, don't comment on why
• Consoles cost hundreds of dollars
• Games cost 60+ dollars

I'd say it's worth taking at least as seriously as we are now.

To be fair there are a lot of people in this thread calling them biased and stupid too.

And that is an unfortunate side effect of the Internet and anonymity. I only wish someone wise like Patrick would do a Ted talk about how to respond to those kinds of people and how not to group those people with the kind that are coming up with reasonable arguments.

 

[Dragon]

I am not saying that I like how they are acting about. I was reaponding to a post that claimed that their behavior was a result of wanting free Xbones. Brad has come off as pretty biased in the last year but I don't think that is enough to attack his integrity.

I'd agree. I don't think anyone who seriously follows Brad would equate the two. It's okay to have a preference, it's even okay to be biased, just transparency would be nice.

I think it's kinda funny that Jeff says he doesn't care while poking fun at us with resolution stuff and buying a 1440p monitor. I honestly think Jeff couldn't give less of a shit about this stuff at all.

 

[Patryn]

GB'ers are making statement after statement on tumblr, twitter and NeoGAF about how stupid we are to get riled up over this. That isn't the same as saying nothing or saying "We'll talk about our comments when we have the consoles at hand." It seems to me like there's some weird hatred Brad, Patrick and Alex have towards everyone who isn't a bonafied journalist with tons of friends to get information on.

I suspect it's more a reaction to constantly being bombarded by people demanding that they comment on this whole issue. They've likely been inundated by e-mails, PMs and the like constantly asking them to talk about it, and they're getting fed up.

I'm sure they'll vilify the XBox One... on the 22nd. Just as I'm sure the PS4 will get lambasted on the 15th.

Neither of those streams are going to happy. It's going to be a lot of sighs as shit doesn't work, a lot of Jeff deadpan faces to the camera, a lot of backhanded comments about how the graphics don't look that remarkably better than the current gen of consoles, and a lot of talk about how people would be better off getting a new PC.

Basically, it'll be the Wii U launch day stream all over again.

 

[BearPawB]

I think one difference is that we don't know how significant the framerate difference is, though we do know the difference between 720p and 1080p rendering resolution.

Very true.

I am just saying, like the giant bomb crew. I am hesitant on making grand assumptions from cross gen launch games about what the systems are capable of in the long term. Time will tell.

Basically, it'll be the Wii U launch day stream all over again.

Yep, I expect the cynicism to be very strong.

 

[Dragon]

I suspect it's more a reaction to constantly being bombarded by people demanding that they comment on this whole issue. They've likely been inundated by e-mails, PMs and the like constantly asking them to talk about it, and they're getting fed up.

I'm sure they'll vilify the XBox One... on the 22nd. Just as I'm sure the PS4 will get lambasted on the 15th.

Neither of those streams are going to happy. It's going to be a lot of sighs as shit doesn't work, a lot of Jeff deadpan faces to the camera, a lot of backhanded comments about how the graphics don't look that remarkably better than the current gen of consoles, and a lot of talk about how people would be better off getting a new PC.

Basically, it'll be the Wii U launch day stream all over again.

Let's hope it doesn't take them two hours to download the patches on the new systems. That shit is absurd. Although if they're getting them early then I assume they'd have time to do that themselves.

 

[komplanen]

I suspect it's more a reaction to constantly being bombarded by people demanding that they comment on this whole issue. They've likely been inundated by e-mails, PMs and the like constantly asking them to talk about it, and they're getting fed up.

I'm sure they'll vilify the XBox One... on the 22nd. Just as I'm sure the PS4 will get lambasted on the 15th.

Neither of those streams are going to happy. It's going to be a lot of sighs as shit doesn't work, a lot of Jeff deadpan faces to the camera, a lot of backhanded comments about how the graphics don't look that remarkably better than the current gen of consoles, and a lot of talk about how people would be better off getting a new PC.

Basically, it'll be the Wii U launch day stream all over again.

I'm sure they will but that does not justify them shitting on us right now. It's funny how reluctant they are to discuss the consoles yet how easy it is to shit on people like us using blanket statements and grouping us into one big pool of idiots.

 

[funkystudent]

Ill just copy and paste what I said in the Sess thread.

The issue of 720p really shouldnt be just tossed away as fanboys being fanboys and shitting on the other side. While Yes there is a good amount of that stuff going on "1080p" was ALWAYS the great hyped up next gen thing. Everyone wanted it. Now that one of the consoles is struggling to not only get near that but is actually running a large chunk of its games at the same resolution of the 360 its not hard to see why people would be disappointed in the next xbox if not pissed of at MS for shipping a underpowered machine.

Not acknowledging that is a little disheartening and yet another example of why the old guard of the games press is increasingly out of touch with the wider audience as they continue to think its more important to act like PR for games companies and making everyone look good rather then inform the audience with the facts.


Also the "if you care just buy a PC" argument is dumb for so many reasons. If it was a minor difference of a few lines of resolution like 360 and PS3 I would get writing the argument off as fanboy crap but its not.

 

[Dragon]

I'm sure they will but that does not justify them shitting on us right now. It's funny how reluctant they are to discuss the consoles yet how easy it is to shit on people like us.

I just think it's funny because I'd make, probably a bad, assumption that a large part of GB's subscription community is made up of hardcore gamers, a lot of which are interested in this stuff.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I'm sure they will but that does not justify them shitting on us right now. It's funny how reluctant they are to discuss the consoles yet how easy it is to shit on people like us.

What exactly is shitting on though?

I don't really see any of their comments as shitting on necessarily as much as a slight vent on people pestering them about the resolution issues, because you don't poke at someone without expecting them to bite back. I've never really noticed anything all that insulting, though if you can point me out to some specific instances that would be helpful.

 

[faridmon]

Not be arrogant, condescending assholes like Klepek and Navarro?

What the fuck? Stay classy...

What the hell did they say for you to attack them in this fashion?

This thread is getting bloody unbearable...

 

[BearPawB]

I just don't know why people think they are getting shit on.

"The PS4 version’s uneven frame rate, by the way, is a big part of why I’ve been pretty cold to a lot of that resolution discussion." -from Jeff's blog

He says it right there. How is that being ignored? Or shit on? He doesn't know yet if the bump in resolution is worth an uneven game

 

[komplanen]

What exactly is shitting on though?

I don't really see any of their comments as shitting on necessarily as much as a slight vent on people pestering them about the resolution issues, because you don't poke at someone without expecting them to bite back. I've never really noticed anything all that insulting, though if you can point me out to some specific instances that would be helpful.

It's only fair of you to ask me for proof and if I manage to have time I'll go through some of their comments to find what caused me to get annoyed. Links and quotes and such. I'm a little busy so no guarantees and if I don't deliver you can of course just scratch my name off of the list of people who to take seriously.

 

[Antiwhippy]

It's only fair of you to ask me for proof and if I manage to have time I'll go through some of their comments to find what caused me to get annoyed. Links and quotes and such. I'm a little busy so no guarantees and if I don't deliver you can of course just scratch my name off of the list of people who to take seriously.

Nah don't take it that seriously, I was just honestly curious. Everyone is in pretty high tensions at this time and sometimes comments can come off really wrong to someone, especially some of the comments from brad who can come off as pretty passive aggressive.

I do feel that so far though that most of their comments haven't really reached the vitriol they get from some parts of the community.

 

[Brashnir]

Why bother then if you feel that way? Man...

Because it's ruining every damn thread on GAF, now this one included.

 

[Manbig]

Video Games: Serious Business.

This joke is almost as obnoxious as the overblown resolution discussion that pours into every thread.

Making a purchasing decision that involves spending half a grand is indeed VERY serious business.

Get outta here with that garbage.

 

[popo]

RE: Ghosts

PC port is supposed to be poor. If PS4 has frame rate issues and xbone is lower res, I would not assume it is all down to the hardware. If they can't even get it right on PC then it could just be that IW are not great at optimzing code full stop.

 

[Pops Maellard]

Still waiting to see what the unlimited power of the cloud gets you, currently it gets you 720p.

Not be arrogant, condescending assholes like Klepek and Navarro?

Goddamn, this thread sometimes...

 

[obonicus]

In an industry where PS3 games scored lower than Xbox 360 games purely because of performance or detail issues now the Xbone is slower none of that matters anymore and its all about the games?

As far as GB's concerned, it's always been about the games. The reason the PS3 version scored lower was because it had issues that impacted their enjoyment of the game; it's the reason Skyrim got GOTY, but with an asterisk to point out they excluded the terrible PS3 version from that award.

If you want GB to make up for what you regard as industry-wide injust treatment the PS3 received, I don't know what to say.

I don't think that's too much to ask from primarily PC gamers who seem to get new graphics card quite often.

Since when have they ever been those sorts of guys? They started playing PCs primarily because it got easier and more enjoyable, and because recent big-name games have been subpar on consoles. Until not that long ago, they were derided around here because they would dismiss PC gaming outright.

 

[demidar]

Y'all throwin' feces at each other again? I'll be takin' a sabbatical from this thread then.

*Takes hat and leaves*

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Goddamn, this thread sometimes...

They can generalise us and calls us names but when I take a disliking to them I'm not allowed to say it?

 

[shadyspace]

you are all garbage people

 

[BearPawB]

They can generalise us and calls us names but when I take a disliking to them I'm not allowed to say it?

you keep saying "us" as if there is anyone in the thread that doesn't think you are obnoxious

 

[jacobs34]

This joke is almost as obnoxious as the overblown resolution discussion that pours into every thread.

Making a purchasing decision that involves spending half a grand is indeed VERY serious business.

Get outta here with that garbage.

Come on, I was just making a joke to try to lighten up the mood in this thread. Of course buying new consoles are considerable financial investments, but when people get so fired up to the point where they are attacking anyone who doesn't hold their own opinion when it comes to the importance of resolution and frame rate in a handful of launch titles, then I think it's time to reevaluate. I think this is true for us and the gaming press.

If gaming outlets start outright lying about game's resolution and/or frame rate that's one thing, but what is going on in this thread right now is a little bit silly. Just my opinion, I apologize if I've offended anyone.

 

[Massa]

I just don't know why people think they are getting shit on.

"The PS4 version’s uneven frame rate, by the way, is a big part of why I’ve been pretty cold to a lot of that resolution discussion." -from Jeff's blog

He says it right there. How is that being ignored? Or shit on? He doesn't know yet if the bump in resolution is worth an uneven game

Jeff Gerstmann is a gentleman and a scholar. He doesn't tend to belittle or disrespect his audience.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

So, what youre saying is that consoles are having performance issues with day one software? I could've rubbed my crystal ball all day and I would've never seen that coming.

Is it ok to move on to another subject now? Can we discuss the decline of Drew's posture as the marathon went on instead?

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

you keep saying "us" as if there is anyone in the thread that doesn't think you are obnoxious

I like GB but I don't feel I need to white knight them like some of "you" are doing, you even have Brad as your avatar, how creepy is that.

 

[ultron87]

I wonder if Vinny's junk is okay.

 

[TentPole]

I wonder if Vinny's junk is okay.

I really need to go back and watch that.