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Giant Bomb #6 | You'd be hard pressed to find 10 better threads this year.

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N

Nihilistic Monk

Member
sixghost said:
He probably should have edited out the 5 or 10 minutes where Alex dropped from the Skype call in that Irrational thing. I guess that's why they don't use Skype for the podcast.
It doesn't seem like there's enough info out the to place blame on anyone. Maybe he was told that 2K wasn't interested in funding another 40 million dollar+ game unless it was another Bioshock game. Should he be forced to work on games which he doesn't want to make so that the studio continues to exist?
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The statement he's released just leaves a real bad taste in my mouth. We can speculate on the "behind the scenes" all we want, but he has released a public statement saying it's HIS decision due to what HE wants.

Perhaps I'm just old fashioned, but I think if the worst comes to the worst, even for legitimate personal reasons, then the Captain should go down with his ship and he should spin off completely independently. He was a founder of the company. He had a responsibility to the people he hired.

The way he's negotiated according to his statement comes across as a weasely way that HE manages to keep HIS job, plus the financial backing of Take Two along the way.

He has his cake and eats it too, whilst advising his staff to do the same. Whole thing just stinks.
 
M

MThanded

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
SteveWinwood said:
no bombcast today sorry
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ij0gBht.gif
 
V

Visceir

Member
brianmcdoogle said:
Patrick has felt like a YouTube streamer for a while. I'm not trying to bag on Patrick, but I really hate how cheap all of his videos look and sound. I feel that the quality of these videos, and I'll even include the Encyclopedia Bombasticas and JAR videos (remember when Patrick had his version of these?), kind of drag down the site.
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I'm all for late night show skyline backdrops!
 
Z

Zaph

Member
Nihilistic Monk said:
The statement he's released just leaves a real bad taste in my mouth. We can speculate on the "behind the scenes" all we want, but he has released a public statement saying it's HIS decision due to what HE wants.

Perhaps I'm just old fashioned, but I think if the worst comes to the worst, even for legitimate personal reasons, then the Captain should go down with his ship and he should spin off completely independently. He was a founder of the company. He had a responsibility to the people he hired.

The way he's negotiated according to his statement comes across as a weasely way that HE manages to keep HIS job, plus the financial backing of Take Two along the way.

He has his cake and eats it too, whilst advising his staff to do the same. Whole thing just stinks.
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Alternative: Take-Two announces the shuttering of Irrational. Day later: Ken Levine announces his new indie studio. Same complaints.

Take-two would never, ever, allow a statement to go out saying "yo, I'd like to keep this studio going, but because we take so long to make games, Bioshock doesn't sell Fallout/Skyrim numbers, and the studio is expensive, Take-Two won't give us the funds and freedom to make the game we want".

Writing a personal blog to explain the fate of all involved, is the exact opposite of weasely. Weasely would have been letting PR handle it all, then in a few days/weeks let it leak that Take-Two wouldn't fund the studio without massive caveats.
 
K

KingGiddra

Member
A friend of mine just registered an amusing url, which some people might appreciate: patrickbomb.com

Full disclosure: I'm a huge fan of Patrick's content, but the fact that GB is mostly his content now is amusing to me
 
N

Nihilistic Monk

Member
Zaph said:
Alternative: Take-Two announces the shuttering of Irrational. Day later: Ken Levine announces his new indie studio. Same complaints.

Take-two would never, ever, allow a statement to go out saying "yo, I'd like to keep this studio going, but because we take so long to make games, Bioshock doesn't sell Fallout/Skyrim numbers, and the studio is expensive, Take-Two won't give us the funds and freedom to make the game we want".

Writing a personal blog to explain the fate of all involved, is the exact opposite of weasely. Weasely would have been letting PR handle it all, then in a few days/weeks let it leak that Take-Two wouldn't fund the studio without massive caveats.
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I don't think there'd be the same complaints. If he wants to leave. TRUELY leave because he wants to pursue other opportunities, then that's one thing. He states he's going to leave and that's that. What happens next is on Take Two. At that point he can release any damn "Yo" statement he wants.

Instead, he has released that statement saying it is HIS decision, as well as stating that he is staying with take two and accepting their money along the way.

The difference to me is that he'd be with those people in letting irrational truly go & pursuing this new folly of him completely fresh. Instead, he's clinging to the corporate teet whilst his staff are let go.
 
Z

Zaph

Member
Nihilistic Monk said:
I don't think there'd be the same complaints. If he wants to leave. TRUELY leave because he wants to pursue other opportunities, then that's one thing. He states he's going to leave and that's that. What happens next is on Take Two. At that point he can release any damn "Yo" statement he wants.

Instead, he has released that statement saying it is HIS decision, as well as stating that he is staying with take two and accepting their money along the way.

The difference to me is that he'd be with those people in letting irrational truly go & pursuing this new folly of him completely fresh. Instead, he's clinging to the corporate teet whilst his staff are let go.
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But in every situation described, it's the same outcome. The only difference is accepting funding from Take-two. Why should Ken burn that bridge because of the studio shutting down? His team will get a better deal working with a publisher they're already close to. Want them to get EA'd like Respawn?

No matter what happened, Irrational was about to be massively culled or shut down completely. It's not Ken's fault Take-Two puts so much stock on his involvement. The fact they kept so many full-time employees on after BI shipped is a testament to all involved - a team that size is usually broken down the moment the game is gold. Burial at Sea isn't going to cover the costs of keeping 200 people around for an extra year.

The blog he posted acknowledged the situation and explained his reasoning, but he didn't grovel or go full seppuku - which is what I think bothers people - he didn't display enough contrition for their liking. But why should he? Every outcome was fucked, his hands were tied and the industry just can't support studios like Irrational any more without setting ridiculous targets (which people complained about with games like Tomb Raider and the 6m projected sales), going broad as possible (hello multiplayer - more complaints) and parcelling out that dlc/micro-transactions (even more complaints).

I really hope this industry starts opening up more about budgets, costs, financing and profit share. It'll shock people (the few studio accounts I saw back when I interned fucking floored me - and they weren't even AAA), but I think fans will be far more sympathetic when hard business decisions are made.
 
K

Khezu

Member
Nihilistic Monk said:
Kudos to Navarro this morning for not letting Levine off with an easy ride for essentially binning 95% of his studio. He brought up some great points and kept steering the discussion towards how this is going to be rough going for a lot of their employees.

Appreciate Patrick might be "fascinated" by what will come next for Levine with now he has a smaller team, but I'm very glad Alex kept reeling it back to the fact that this has devastated a big chunk of people. Maybe I'm turning into an old curmudgeon, but to me the story is that a shit-ton of people have lost their job with no real notice or safety net. Not what Levines next project will be.

The whole Irrational news today has left a real sour taste in my mouth. :(
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I haven't watched this yet, but I'm glad I'm not the only one that felt that way.

That whole press release was so scummy sounding.
 
M

MiniBossBattle

Member
I dunno if I want to get Strider after watching the Giant Bomb quicklook. Looks fun, just might not be the game for me. I wonder what the decision was for not having pushback on blocks or hits.

edit, looks like there is pushback, I don't know why the hits don't look powerful.
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
brianmcdoogle said:
Patrick has felt like a YouTube streamer for a while. I'm not trying to bag on Patrick, but I really hate how cheap all of his videos look and sound. I feel that the quality of these videos, and I'll even include the Encyclopedia Bombasticas and JAR videos (remember when Patrick had his version of these?), kind of drag down the site.
Click to expand...
Patrick's the one propping up the site atm. If they lose him, they might be in serious trouble. He brings the goods.

Spelunkin
Worth Playing
Daily Dota
Bombcast
QLs

is why I go to Giantbomb these days, in that order.
 
B

BearPawB

Banned
Khezu said:
I haven't watched this yet, but I'm glad I'm not the only one that felt that way.

That whole press release was so scummy sounding.
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Why wouldn't take 2 just let ken leave and hire as many of the quality people as they could to stay on as irrational/change to a new name?

Ken wanted to leave, hired people away, take 2 decided to get rid of them, it wasn't all ken's fault.
 
S

SteveWinwood

Member
Haunted said:
Patrick's the one propping up the site atm. If they lose him, they might be in serious trouble. He brings the goods.

Spelunkin
Worth Playing
Daily Dota
Bombcast
QLs

is why I go to Giantbomb these days, in that order.
Click to expand...
Well to each his own and all that but mine is in the exact opposite order.
 
N

Nihilistic Monk

Member
Zaph said:
But in every situation described, it's the same outcome. The only difference is accepting funding from Take-two. Why should Ken burn that bridge because of the studio shutting down? His team will get a better deal working with a publisher they're already close to. Want them to get EA'd like Respawn?

No matter what happened, Irrational was about to be massively culled or shut down completely. It's not Ken's fault Take-Two puts so much stock on his involvement. The fact they kept so many full-time employees on after BI shipped is a testament to all involved - a team that size is usually broken down the moment the game is gold. Burial at Sea isn't going to cover the costs of keeping 200 people around for an extra year.

The blog he posted acknowledged the situation and explained his reasoning, but he didn't grovel or go full seppuku - which is what I think bothers people - he didn't display enough contrition for their liking. But why should he? Every outcome was fucked, his hands were tied and the industry just can't support studios like Irrational any more without setting ridiculous targets (which people complained about with games like Tomb Raider and the 6m projected sales), going broad as possible (hello multiplayer - more complaints) and parcelling out that dlc/micro-transactions (even more complaints).

I really hope this industry starts opening up more about budgets, costs, financing and profit share. It'll shock people (the few studio accounts I saw back when I interned fucking floored me - and they weren't even AAA), but I think fans will be far more sympathetic when hard business decisions are made.
Click to expand...

I suggest we take it to the other thread or DM rather than carry this on in the GB thread, but I do believe the captain should have gone down with his ship. He founded Irrational and I absolutely believe he had a responsibility to those people from a business perspective. If he wanted to go and do his own thing he should have cut the ties, quit, and then let take two make whatever decision they needed to make with the studio they own. Instead, 200 people are out on their ass whilst he has long term security out the wazoo and the press statement seems to show as a founder, he decided this was the best way to do it...
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Nihilistic Monk said:
I suggest we take it to the other thread or DM rather than carry this on in the GB thread, but I do believe the captain should have gone down with his ship. He founded Irrational and I absolutely believe he had a responsibility to those people from a business perspective. If he wanted to go and do his own thing he should have cut the ties, quit, and then let take two make whatever decision they needed to make with the studio they own. Instead, 200 people are out on their ass whilst he has long term security out the wazoo and the press statement seems to show as a founder, he decided this was the best way to do it...
Click to expand...
I think the reality, as hashed out in the big thread, is that 2k was going to close Irrational and offered Levine a chance to stay on board. He decided to take it, so they had him spin in that letter.
 
F

FStop7

Banned
I think we're going to hear a some interesting stories from ex-Irrational people. The behind the scenes story of the development of Bioshock Infinite's got to be book worthy.
 
Z

Zaph

Member
Nihilistic Monk said:
I suggest we take it to the other thread or DM rather than carry this on in the GB thread, but I do believe the captain should have gone down with his ship. He founded Irrational and I absolutely believe he had a responsibility to those people from a business perspective. If he wanted to go and do his own thing he should have cut the ties, quit, and then let take two make whatever decision they needed to make with the studio they own. Instead, 200 people are out on their ass whilst he has long term security out the wazoo and the press statement seems to show as a founder, he decided this was the best way to do it...
Click to expand...
Fair enough, I think that's where we just philosophically differ. I figure he managed to save 15 people's jobs, and maybe more down the line as the studio grows.
 
S

Shingro

Member
BearPawB said:
Why wouldn't take 2 just let ken leave and hire as many of the quality people as they could to stay on as irrational/change to a new name?

Ken wanted to leave, hired people away, take 2 decided to get rid of them, it wasn't all ken's fault.
Click to expand...

I'd put serious money that Ken's going to do what he did with Bioshock 1, which is to say 3-5 years of design work and rework, thinking and rethinking. If you remember the crazy stuff that was Bioshock at the very early sketches (dogs in wheelchairs?) that game went through scads of changes.

I'm betting Ken wants a long term design process on this game and there's no way they're going to pay 200 people saleries for 3-5 years while tons of stuff is shifting around and no real 'work' can be done.

That way goes Duke Nukum forever.
 
L

LackingSaint

Neo Member
Last time the general attitude towards Patrick changed in a positive way, it was just as he grew a beard and stopped wearing t-shirts.

If people are starting to err against him again, I call for Patrick to shave off his afro and start wearing glasses.
 
MrTroubleMaker

MrTroubleMaker

Member
KingGiddra said:
A friend of mine just registered an amusing url, which some people might appreciate: patrickbomb.com

Full disclosure: I'm a huge fan of Patrick's content, but the fact that GB is mostly his content now is amusing to me
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lol

Chuck said:
Did they remove the ability to gift memberships? I can't find it anywhere.
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its here for me
https://auth.giantbomb.com/account/


Subscription management

Billing History
Change Plan
Update Credit Card
Purchase a gift code
Redeem a Gift Code
Cancel subscription
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
Anyone else having issues streaming their videos? All the other steaming sites I use work fine, but I have to let Giantbomb buffer on progressive for a bit now.
 
M

M3z_

Member
I'm just glad that GB has seemed to of gotten an increased budget because having lost 2 people in the main office in the last year has shown. They still make great content, but there is no hiding the loss of such a significant portion of the in office staff. And as much as I respect the hell out of Patrick for how hard he clearly works and his dedication to proving his worth outside the office the type of content he creates is just not for me. I have always been attracted to GB for the meshing of personalities/"family close" atmosphere and Patrick doing things on his own or with Alex is not the type of content that drew me into the site. I certainly hope that content is bringing in other people who weren't brought in by the stuff I was, but at the core of it I am selfish and want more shit that pleases my sensibilities cause who the fuck doesn't.
 
L

LurkerPrime

Member
Alucrid said:
Anyone else having issues streaming their videos? All the other steaming sites I use work fine, but I have to let Giantbomb buffer on progressive for a bit now.
Click to expand...

Giant Bomb's video stuff has never worked flawlessly for me. The HTML5 player begins paused so I have to right-click and select "play" for it to work, though I'm not sure if that's a streaming issue or a player issue. HTML5 videos also seems laggy in fullscreen, though maybe that's just my eyes playing tricks on me.

Do any of their videos save your location on them anymore? I miss that feature.
 
A

ab.aeterno

Member
Anonymous Tumblr Asshole to Patrick said:
You watched the Quicklook of the South Park game? You must be proud that the rest of GB are starting to think like you. When you're first arrived at GB, I tolerated you and your type of sensational journalism. But now you're turning the site into your own soapbox like something like the next Kotaku or Polygon, because you have to impose your beliefs to others. I know you used to work at horrible places like MTV and G4, but don't drag GB down the dirt & let the guys be their old selves.
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Jeff said:
The notion that either you find Cartman’s dumb routine hilarious or you must “not be your old self” is pretty great. I haven’t watched South Park in a really long time, I got really tired of it because of stuff like that.

Not to say that South Park doesn’t still have its moments—though I wouldn’t really know, I haven’t watched it much since the movie came out—but seeing that early bit of the game didn’t really do anything for me, from a comedy standpoint. It just looked like Cartman yelling, and I had to live through that last time, when everyone quoted that show and character constantly, 24/7. I’m not at all interested in revisiting that time! So if that’s all the game has to offer (and Brad’s time with it seems to say otherwise) then no fucking thanks.

Either that or people are taking our second or two of faux dismay about the “Jew” class at its face value. I don’t know, maybe we were too subtle there. Can’t please everybody, but the people attempting to make this a “thing” can totally fuck themselves. If you’re the type of person who would write something like the above question, do yourself a favor and stop watching our stuff.
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Nice to Jeff rightly telling assholes to fuck off with this nonsense. It's ridiculous the way people act about Patrick sometimes. Like, I can't even comprehend that a person with any semblance of rational thought or intelligence wrote that comment. My weeks would be more boring without Bombing the AM and Spelunkin.
 
S

SPACECADET

Member
I wonder how many people hate rorie for imposing his puppy love on giantbomb, too.

I love Patrick and all the bomb guys, all of their content they do. I don't understand this earth.
 
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