Interesting factoid, it relates to something Drew said on the bombcast actually. If you have a hacked PS3, or a dev-kit, you can remove the mattes on Beyond: Two Souls, have full 720p, and it doesn't impact performance.
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Giant Bomb #6 | You'd be hard pressed to find 10 better threads this year.
- Thread starter Hot Coldman
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Backfoggen
Banned
I can understand discussing GBs stance on this but do we need another res rodeo in this thread.
I recall they were quite pumped after the Sony E3 conference.
I'm with you on that though, I'm still going to be listening and watching the guys no matter what haha.
That is an interesting factoid. Has anyone done an actual frame analysis on it, or is it just people eyeball testing? People have pretty shitty eyeballs, in my experience. I kept hearing about how smoothly GTA5 ran pre-release, and that game chugs like crazy on both platforms.
As an aside, I can see it working for a game like Beyond and being an honest artistic choice, since it's really as much of an interactive movie as anything, but a shooter like the Order where the player controls the camera all the time and needs to aim at things? It's a hindrance to gameplay.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I dunno, I think resolutiongate is stupid but I get the point.
You're being asked to spend $100 more on something that, in the first test of hardware vs. hardware on a multiplatform game, is not performing as well. Maybe that won't be the case forever. We are at a point where optimization can come in many forms at many times and the box you bring home might not always have the same performance.
90% of this is all wrapped up in console wars politics, but there is a 10% that is pretty legitimate and going "Yeah, wait, shouldn't these two be identical? If they're not, why?" I'd like to hear that story and am kind of frustrated game journalists aren't willing to find out because they don't want to associate with the contingent that feel this is apocalyptic.
You're being asked to spend $100 more on something that, in the first test of hardware vs. hardware on a multiplatform game, is not performing as well. Maybe that won't be the case forever. We are at a point where optimization can come in many forms at many times and the box you bring home might not always have the same performance.
90% of this is all wrapped up in console wars politics, but there is a 10% that is pretty legitimate and going "Yeah, wait, shouldn't these two be identical? If they're not, why?" I'd like to hear that story and am kind of frustrated game journalists aren't willing to find out because they don't want to associate with the contingent that feel this is apocalyptic.
Its still rendering less... So no, it does not count.
I can't remember the exact details, it's somewhere in the Beyond thread, but I saw the comparison pictures, and they certainly look consistent in image quality, but yeah, I don't know anyone went into a DF style performance/IQ comparison.
Not that it makes any difference to The Order, I doubt it would be the case there, it seems more likely this was a decision made later into development, where as The Order was always going to be in scope.
It's not COD, specifically. At least not to me it isn't. It's the fact that game is not a great looking game, period. And if the Xbox One has to run a game like that at 720p in order maintain 60fps, then something's wrong. That's a 40% (or 125% depending on how you count it) drop in resolution. That's newsworthy, in my opinion. But whatever.
And for people who've talked at length about plugging their PCs into their televisions in order to get 1080p and "next gen graphics before next gen is even out" last year, saying this isn't a big deal is disingenuous as fuck.
I'm not trying to determine what factors go into a person's purchasing decision, or saying that people should only care about the games. What I'm saying is: IF you only care about performance, THEN you should buy a PC because you'll be able to get the best performance on PC. If you can't afford a PC, still don't buy a console, because if you only care about performance spending that $400 on a console isn't worth it... continue to save and get a PC in a couple months instead.
I'm also not saying that you HAVE to get a PC. What I'm saying is: If you want the console exclusives from Naughty Dog, 343, Turn 10, etc. Then the trend of graphical differences doesn't matter because you'll have to buy the console that has the exclusives you want to play regardless of what resolution it runs them in.
I won't speak for Patrick. But I kind of disagree with what you're saying. I do agree that it's important to know if the console that has the exclusives you want plays multiplatform games like shit. That should definitely impact your purchasing decision. But I don't think it's wise to spend $400 just on which one runs multi-platform games the best. Ideally you'd want the one that has the best exclusives and runs multiplatform titles the best! But the "best exclusives" part is subjective, and there's no way to know right now which one will have the best exclusives, unless you think the best exclusive either one of these platforms is going to have is in their launch line up (lol).
So, in summary: If performance is most important to you, get a PC. If exclusives are more important to you then don't worry about performance (it's not gonna change anything) just get the one that has the exclusives you want.
If you want the one with the best exclusives and best performance, don't buy a console at launch.
How on earth did you get that from what I said? What you want is for them to say the same thing that you can get from almost every other website. If it matters so much for you, why not go read it there? What you really want is for them to validate your opinion regarding your console choice; that's fanboy drivel, it's boring and it's pointless.
What exactly is 'press coverage'? Going from Kotaku inanity to GB's sparse newsposts, where's the sweet spot?
I agree with this, though I don't think anyone's willing to risk their neck going on record regarding multiplatform differences. To this day the problems of the RSX are still officially unknown; at most you'd get mutterings on places like B3D but no one was willing to really give any details (and break NDA). This might be where GB could be more aggressive; they like to cultivate insiders as friends, but don't seem to be willing to really pump them for publishable info. But then again I suspect GB doesn't really intend to be more than games E/N, Patrick notwithstanding. Personally, I'm fine with that; it seems that when it comes to videogame writing, becoming serious goes hand-in-hand with becoming boring.
What I want is them to provide consumer advice, as is their role, and if they won't I want to know the real reason, and it's not because Patrick doesn't have a 1080p TV.
Gozer the Gozerian
Member
Man what happened in this thread
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
You'll notice it's the same people who were moaning none of the GB guys played Last of Us.
I agree with this.
Not really frustrating to me though, but definitely very interesting.
I think we disagree on what their role is; I see them as entertainment, with consumer advice a distant second. To be clear, what do you suspect the real reason is behind Patrick not caring about this resolution stuff?
Oh damn thanks for reminding me, I forgot about that! I expect them to tackle it for GOTY.
He (and GB in general) like Xbox more.
That makes no difference. Okay, let me phrase it this way. If they are putting up the PS4 FAQ, they should be putting up this story.
I don't know, which is why it's interesting to me. I can't think of a reason, other than maybe they've had to sign an NDA meaning they can't. If that is the case, the NDA itself might forbid them confirming that is the case.
Well I was the one who posted Patrick's tumblr q & a in here, and I don't care that most of them never played much of TLoU. I haven't played it at all.
I think most of the press is looking at this from the POV of what happened with current gen. At the outset, PS3 had worse performing multi plats but over time, things worked themselves out and we had parity towards the end. I think most want to think that this might be the same case where time + increasing developer familiarity will result in parity.
It's not disingenuous if the reason it's not a big deal (to them) is because they don't care.
Very doubtful that will happen this gen. The differences are way bigger.
Uh, no.
Yep.
Also yep.
Man, you guys are killing it today. <3
JesseEwiak
Member
How can they give consumer advice for something that isn't out yet? I have no doubt that if there are big differences between two versions of a game, they'll mention it. I mean, after they leave their secret love hotel with Major Nelson, of course.
SteveWinwood
Member
I'm so glad you didn't come in here and just shit on some people.
It's a lot more fun to read this. Everyone comes out happy.
What kind of logic is that? The news it out. IW have confirmed it. What is the point of waiting? They didn't wait to post the PS4 FAQ till the system was out, because that's not how news works.
I hope you do too, in Volgarr the Viking.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I can't really tell the difference between 720p and 1080p... 
As others have pointed out, what's the point of reposting a minor news quip that is already posted on every other gaming website?
The PS4 FAQ was a much more substantial infodump
illmatic19
Member
Not never, just rarely. Very rarely.
JesseEwiak
Member
...and if they actually review XBox One games and compare them to PS4 games, I'm sure they'll actually mention it if there are big differences. However, the PS4 FAQ was actually a massive FAQ with lots of information that you can link too (which is basically what the PS4 FAQ story was), not just one twitter message where the story is right there in the twitter message.
If we're arguing post history you'd be the last one to point a finger at someone else.
The entirety of that 'info dump' isn't as important as this single news story. But even if you don't agree, and I gather you don't, you can't possibly think the release date of Ninja Gaiden Z, a game that will struggle to sell 200k in it's life, is bigger news than the biggest game of the year being more than double the resolution on one system.
Above Brad said someone was correct in saying they're fatigued at being asked to pick sides. This isn't that. When a piece of news is bad for one company, and good for another, posting it isn't picking a side, that's being objective.
As for why post news other outlets have, again, you could say that about every single story they ever post.
EmCeeGramr
Member
The difference eventually became negligible but still present because they figured out how to use the PS3's more powerful but complicated CPU to make up for the underwhelming RAM and GPU.
With the Xbox One, developers will eventually catch up by figuring out the One's advantage of... uh... the cloud? There's nothing else there for them to use to reach parity. You can get better tools to get more out of what you have, but there's an upper limit there that's distinctly lower than the upper limit on the $100 cheaper console.
(also using the "most people couldn't tell HD or real widescreen" argument is probably the most unintentionally self-defeating thing I've ever read)
With the Xbox One, developers will eventually catch up by figuring out the One's advantage of... uh... the cloud? There's nothing else there for them to use to reach parity. You can get better tools to get more out of what you have, but there's an upper limit there that's distinctly lower than the upper limit on the $100 cheaper console.
(also using the "most people couldn't tell HD or real widescreen" argument is probably the most unintentionally self-defeating thing I've ever read)
The difference was that the PS3 had a bit more raw power with the Cell but it was incredibly hard to tap and only some first party titles did.
The PS4 is more powerful than the Xbone by a much larger margin than the PS3 was compared to the 360, they both use very similar x86 AMD APUs but the Xbone one is less powerful and the RAM speed is much slower (with the ESRAM as the relatively hard to use solution to attempt to make up for some of the difference) Its really not setup like last gen at all.
Im not saying that devs wont get better dealing with the Xbone, but its not a case where they can untap more power hidden in the Xbone compared to the PS4. there will always be a gap. probably wider than we saw last gen.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
I can't really tell the difference between 720p and 1080p...
I play with a pc hooked up to my tv and the difference is pretty noticeable. It's also noticeable because im switching resolutions on the fly. Most people won't be doing the same when they get their machines, though. Resolution differences will exist and they'll be noticeable to some, but not the many. Good games, though, that shit will make all of the difference. I can't wait to see the amazing games coming this gen, and I hope that most will see a ps4 release because that's what I'll have for the time being.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Yeah, exactly. Of course the XBO's growing pains will eventually end, but this isn't the previous generation anymore. Outside of GT4's weird pseudo-1080i thing, the PS2 never suddenly caught up to the Xbox 1's 720p titles or the games with real shaders. It's hard to say if the difference will be that big (probably not), but based on pure numbers and the differences in games already shown off and played, the days of every game being "well this version runs at a 5% lower resolution but it has slightly better lighting and particles" seem to be over.
EDIT: As for being able to tell, I can readily able to tell the difference on a 1080p PC monitor or a large 1080p plasma. More stylized, simple, and colorful games at 720p look fine if I lean back but the jaggies leap out the second I lean forward even slightly, and anything more realistic or detailed is incredibly obvious.
EDIT: As for being able to tell, I can readily able to tell the difference on a 1080p PC monitor or a large 1080p plasma. More stylized, simple, and colorful games at 720p look fine if I lean back but the jaggies leap out the second I lean forward even slightly, and anything more realistic or detailed is incredibly obvious.
I wonder if they will make the PS4 their multiplatform of choice this gen?
Set down your agenda for a second and let's try a little critical thinking. Patrick is either
-dismissing an issue out of hand because he and he alone doesn't have the hardware to tell the difference, or
-applying his own example to illustrate why technical minutiae is somewhere around eighth on the list of factors that will determine the success of these consoles, as it's always been
Mainstream video game consumers do not give a FUCK about the resolution of their games compared to price, brand loyalty, peripheral features, exclusives, and which system their friends are playing on. All of those things are more important to people who don't post on Internet forums than a disparity in resolution that, while it may look enormous by the numbers, is not dramatically perceptible to the eye in real-world circumstances.
I'd argue this maxim even extends to places like GAF. Numerous PS3 multiplats were lower res or performed worse than their 360 counterparts last generation. If you're a Sony fan who prefers the PlayStation environment, raise your hand if you let that stop you from playing those games on the PS3. I'd bet money there aren't a lot of you.
Watching the BF4 QL now. the ending to the SP stuff. A crash exit to desktop. damn.
I like my PC for high IQ gaming but Ive experienced freezes and crashes like that myself. More reason Im waiting for the new consoles. Raise the bar to get close to the PC without the PCs wrinkles.
I like my PC for high IQ gaming but Ive experienced freezes and crashes like that myself. More reason Im waiting for the new consoles. Raise the bar to get close to the PC without the PCs wrinkles.
illmatic19
Member
I honestly think I prefer creepy gaf than what's going on in this thread right now.
You've talked multiple times about hooking up a PC to a TV to get 1080p.
When were you talking shit, then or now?
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