VibratingDonkey
Member
*Spoiler* Everyone except Ryo is already dead. They're ghosts. That's why they fade in like that.
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Giant Bomb are bringing back the Endurance Run... and it's Shenmue.
- Thread starter MassiveNights
- Start date
Tom dances literally every time you pass him so you're right.
ScaryShark
Banned
I'm responding generally in the context of the other discussions going on. I was more responding to your post with the above poster in mind who keeps listing things that they should do when there's no way of knowing that you can eventually get things out of it.
How many things have they interacted with that either repeat or go nowhere? Why would that cat suddenly be a thing in Shenmue that if you repeat actually brings something new to the table.
What has Shenmue communicated to the player that feeding a cat daily is a thing that will bear fruit down the line? All I see are constant barriers and repetition. I guess I'm in the minority that obfuscating gameplay makes for a good experience or that there should be an expectation that a first time player, 17 years after the fact, is totally going to play the game as they would when the game was new (again speaking generally not directly to you).
A cat meowing = feed it daily because eventually you'll get more cutscenes down the line?
Game designers must love you.
sammyCYBORG
Member
I love Shenmue and think it still holds up really well today, even if a lot of is dated and you have to have the right mood to play it.
But I love watching these guys hate it and Vinny going insane.
But I love watching these guys hate it and Vinny going insane.
Man, if you really want me to go through all those, I will, but you full well know I'm talking about methods they could be exploring to fill that free time. That is literally what that post is about, but okay, from the top.
Some are just neat little things like the cassette player, tapes, and family photos that get added to the inventory. You can also find food for the kitten in the kitchen, and a SEGA Saturn in the living room (playable once you win a game from the Tomato Mart raffle). Additionally, you can also find a flashlight, matches, batteries, but they won't come of use until later.
There are also a pair of move scrolls hidden around the house that add to Ryo's repertoire of moves.
If you explore further into the house, you can go into Ryo's father's room to investigate. There's a story point hidden here, as Ryo's father wrote him a letter that explains that he knows someone was coming to kill him. More investigation into the room reveals a key that'll be used later in the story, though they could have easily found it early if they'd engaged in some rummaging around the house.
Single button, but do you really expect anything that involved for a raffle? You don't win money, you win prizes out of five tiers, ranging from random capsule toys, rare capsule toys, cassette tapes you can't buy normally, home versions of hang on and space harrier, and a boombox for your room. Again, I will say that my post you are responding to was for suggestions to kill time.
It's a slot machine, so what kind of involvement do you expect? You can adjust your bet/stakes like a real slot machine. It's possible to win a prize if you do well enough. They're clearly not going to spend in-game hours doing it, but I was disappointed they didn't try it out.
I don't know why you keep making a definition between "real" gameplay and "not real" gameplay. Is gameplay defined by constant action? We wouldn't have progressed past arcade games if that was the case.
It opens up a sidequest where you see the cat get healthy again, and expands on Ryo's relationship with Nozomi. You don't "press A in a menu to see a cutscene". I'll repeat myself, I'm suggesting ways to kill time. They've seen that they can buy food in the Tomato Mart, so why don't they try getting some and taking it to the cat?
It's similar to the Tomato Mart in that you can buy items and play the raffle, but there are different items available, including very rare capsule toys like a Golden Dural. They've ran past it for days but haven't thought to look inside.
Depends on the event. There's a FREE battle in Sakura park with those two guys you beat up in the very first QTE we saw in the endurance run that should have triggered with some exploration.
Yes, an actual combat move. Involves more than viewing a cutscene that demonstrates the move, but then you have to listen for the instructional clues given "shift your weight forward" and translate them into button presses (that would mean pressing a directional button on the controller in the direction Ryo is facing) to complete the move like you would in a fighting game.
Incandenza
Banned
*sees thread*
ah yes, now this, this is that authentic Endurance Run experience I've been craving all these years
ah yes, now this, this is that authentic Endurance Run experience I've been craving all these years
I can sorta understand why certain Shenmue fans would be upset, Vinny/Dan/whats his face are so incompetent at the game it makes it look worse then it really is(though it doesn't seem like a good game either way).
Then you will have a bunch of people go well I saw Giant Bomb play that game, and it looked like shit mountain, why would anyone like it? Will might get annoying down the line.
Personally I'm watching it because I'm a fan of Vinny and Dan.
And I want them to play poorly because it makes for better content. Vinny getting upset and losing his god damn mind over some sailor he can't find, is really funny to me.
Games fault or not.
Then you will have a bunch of people go well I saw Giant Bomb play that game, and it looked like shit mountain, why would anyone like it? Will might get annoying down the line.
Personally I'm watching it because I'm a fan of Vinny and Dan.
And I want them to play poorly because it makes for better content. Vinny getting upset and losing his god damn mind over some sailor he can't find, is really funny to me.
Games fault or not.
TurboButts
Member
Why is the giant bomb community so full of masochistic backseat gamers
sammyCYBORG
Member
Wait til Shenmue 3 comes out and is highly flawed and receives a lot of valid criticism for it. Meltdowns ahoy.
I'm just hoping all of its flaws aren't in regards to the world, story and atmosphere, because that's when I'll get disappointed.
I don't consider pressing a button and receiving a cutscene gameplay because it's the same thing as a DVD menu. Having a navigable world space obviously obfuscates this and creates player agency, but then the weight of whether a game is any good or not boils down to whether that navigation is engaging or whether the payoff is worth it (quality of cutscenes/writing).
I'm not saying someone can't like Shenmue; like whatever you want.
But I don't see how controlling an avatar up to THING A and pressing a button to receive <money/observable object/song/conversation> is any different than just a cutscene of the same thing. Wall humping for <money/observable object/song/conversation>, is just an obfuscation of cutscene roll out. Nothing changes the way you play, almost no observable object grants additional knowledge of the narrative, nothing really matters except to extend the length of time between cutscenes or which cutscenes you see.
Except the fighting.
Which is fine. But anyone claiming that the GB guys are missing out kind of baffles me; by most experienced Shenmue player's admission, the voice acting is bad, the controls outside of fights are clunky, the camera direction is pedestrian (and weird) and the story is a series of fetch quests. So the payoff of the reduction in interactivity isn't really there. The GB guys don't like the writing and don't seem to have much affinity for any of the SEGA fandom, so wall humping for SEGA trinkets or extra character interaction is mostly pointless. Playing a raffle or slot machine is less interesting that playing one in real life and playing one in real life is a giant waste of time.
I guess I was just sort of baffled by the "there's things they could be doing otherwise" statement with the implication that it would make it a richer experience.
No, and that's the point. You can see right there in my post that I say Shenmue is better with the clarified thought that comes with an isolated playing experience.
I love the endurance run, but I'm offering a counterpoint to people who think it's the game's fault that things are being dragged out like this. The first Shenmue definitely is slow paced (especially compared to its sequel), but it's not this slow.
What does the video being edited have to do with anything? I'm just pointing out that the frustration seen in the endurance run is not typical of all experiences with the game, especially from people who have never played it before and are trying it out in a modern context.
Man, you will find that any game has people who will go to bat for, and against it. Shenmue is not a special case in that regard, and all I'm doing is putting forward the notion that maybe they aren't playing Shenmue in a way that best represents the game. It's certainly not flawless, but there are elements being exaggerated by player ineptitude over genuine design failings.
Because HE ISN'T CHARLIE and DOESN'T KNOW CHARLIE, that's why he had nothing to say while looking for him.
But now they are looking for a tattoo parlour, and have encountered an NPC (that appears outside of cutscenes, unlike the sailor) with tattoos.
It is not a tremendous leap of logic to think to ask the guys with tattoos about the tattoo parlour, goddamn.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Oh boy. Jeff was right.
https://youtu.be/Cw8Tndlbyng
https://youtu.be/Cw8Tndlbyng
ScaryShark
Banned
Spaghetti: if you're defending Shenmue against people using this ER as a definitive or normal representation of the game I think that's completely fair. I got mixed up with others in here criticizing the way they're playing. I see now that you're not really doing that.
AuthenticM
Member
The trio of Dan, Alex and Vinny is so fucking great. Seriously. Dan is a fantastic addition to GB East.
Now I really want them to do an ER of Persona 5.
Now I really want them to do an ER of Persona 5.
Whether or not he knows Charlie is irrelevant.
Ryo doesn't even ask if he's Charlie despite him matching the description of Charlie. How tf are they supposed to know he's not Charlie when they are actively trying to find out about Charlie? Someone earlier even claimed that guy was supposed to be a red herring of sorts, and it that was intentional, that makes things even worse.
And now there's supposed to be a split between regular NPCs and characters in cutscenes? One would figure characters featured in cutscenes would be more important than random people on the street, especially considering that cutscene was triggered because Ryo ran into a character he had known from before.
Every single interaction with the biker in the arcade had ended with him telling Ryo to kiss off without even giving him the chance to ask a question. Every single time. But now, because Ryo's question is tattoo related, rather than tattoo/jacket/glasses related, they're supposed to assume that guy will give them a chance to even talk?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I hope 5 has the giant Penis Demon so I can see Dans reaction to it
Sorry, I thought you were pointing out that it doesn't take long to get through the game by using a video that was edited down.
Shenmue is too obtuse for its own good and I don't think it's on the player to resolve that. I imagine the reason Shenmue did not see the success that it needed was because what these guys are seeing is the same as the what a lot of people saw. There is room in the world for Shenmue and I wish the people that love the game all the best but you have to realise that what you get out of the game is just not going to appeal to a lot of people and that's not their problem.
Poohblaster
Member
Bad Game + Endurance Run = Good Entertainment
Bad Game + Endurance Run + Crazy Fans of Bad Game = Goldmine
Bad Game + Endurance Run + Crazy Fans of Bad Game = Goldmine
EmCeeGramr
Member
That was never going to happen. IIRC they knew before releasing it that they'd need to sell more copies than Dreamcasts existed to recoup the costs.
That's kinda endearing about this: a guy who made arcade racers and fighting games decided to make this giant ass RPG/Adventure/Fighting personal dream game that was like absolutely nothing else on the market with a patently absurd budget while the company in question was already in a precarious position in the market and in their finances. And he actually got to do it.
Even Kojima's period of free reign to do whatever with Metal Gear doesn't meet that.
Hey so this thread is getting heated so I'll remind people to lay off of personal insults, thanks
EnlightenedMint
Member
This ER is fantastic, so happy Dan is moving to GB East.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
How are we crazy though? I'd think our grievances are reasonable.
I love and respect the dream that Yu Suzuki had and I fully support the making of Shenmue 3. The platform and monetary restrictions stopped it from being the best game ever and what we got was a broken dream that was haphazardly duct taped together.
Glitchesarecool
Member
This is exactly where I expected things to go.
sammyCYBORG
Member
The problem is Shenmue is a highly flawed game that needs to be played in a certain way, in a certain environment to be really appreciated.
And even then you need to be able to appreciate what it does right and overlook all of the bits that (especially now) are pretty bad.
Clearly an ER isn't the best way to do that. It is pretty cringey seeing people get so mad, especially when them "doing it wrong" or however people want to word it is still entertaining.
We're getting Shenmue 3, all Shenmue fans should just be happy of that. And probably stop watching this ER or accept it for what it is, a brilliant trainwreck.
ScaryShark
Banned
"You're playing it wrong!" and then getting annoyed by it is always crazy. You also seem to not understand the series. The majority of the people coming to this series are coming for the personalities, not the game. You're an existing Shenmue fan coming to series of people coming to the game 17 years later and playing it for comedic and entertainment purposes and then getting annoyed when they're missing things and not enjoying it as much as you do.
DOBERMAN INC
Member
I still love Shenmue and I find the ER hilarious, people take these things way too seriously.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
How is it crazy if they aren't even using the zoom button, a basic feature? Like I said, it's like playing Mario without the run button. You can certainly probably beat Mario without it but it'll be an annoying experience. Likewise, Shenmue is an exploration game. Exploration and adventuring is the crux of the experience and zooming is crucial. How do they expect to find the items on disc 2 or interact with the telephone book at the pay phone booth if they're not using a basic feature? That's definitely playing it wrong in my book.
Honestly, the only craziness I'm seeing are Giant bomb fans defending their lords and saviors for playing a game so incompetently.
My god, you could reduce pretty much every modern game to pressing buttons to receive cutscenes. It's the ultimate reductive strawman argument, and doesn't actual prove anything.
My post was about filling that time that they spent running up and down the street. They seem to have no real problem once they hit a story beat, but there's a frustrating lack of engagement and experimentation that would make these waiting periods so much smoother for them.
funkystudent
Member
The Shenmue fanbase is known to be logical, understanding and calm.
I am sure they understand GBeast are playing the game blind and will make plenty of cock ups along the way like you would any weird open / living world game.
/s
Just sit back and enjoy the train wreck. Shenmue always seemed like a horrible game to jump into without a wiki handy or someone who knows whats up giving you pointers when needed.
I am sure they understand GBeast are playing the game blind and will make plenty of cock ups along the way like you would any weird open / living world game.
/s
Just sit back and enjoy the train wreck. Shenmue always seemed like a horrible game to jump into without a wiki handy or someone who knows whats up giving you pointers when needed.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I wish I was around when they played Persona 4. I can't even imagine how angry people got .
BobTheFork
Member
Thank God they played the whole thing before putting out a single episode and they are already finished playing it.
Maybe, perhaps, the game has failed at encouraging them to zoom? Somehow, they have managed to progress without this basic function.
SparkleMotion
Member
As someone who hasn't watched, why is it great?
BlackClouds
Member
I wonder when people will admit so much of Shenmue has been integrated into the AAA formula over the years. Low key very respected by the industry but doesn't have the legacy it deserves.
bionicpuppy
Giant Bomb Producter/Bufu Caster
Ha. They got pretty angry.
We're going in circles here. Look, why wouldn't you talk to the NPC with tattoos about a tattoo parlour? Even if they've gotten nothing out of that character so far, it isn't a tremendous leap of logic to try again because of the obvious link. They already know NPC conversations will change based on what questions you have to ask, so they couldn't have considered that character totally off-limits to talk to.
Again, it's not a big deal because they'll probably loop back around to the bikers after grilling other NPCs; but the game isn't fighting them on this. They just didn't put the pieces together.
Man, trust me. I am well and truly used to people not liking Shenmue, and I honestly don't care if GBEast end up coming away from the game enjoying it or not, but people need to understand this is definitely not the best representation of the game being played for the first time at all. The game thrives on the problem solving skills that comes with a more concentrated solitary experience; it's sometimes a little vague, and a surprising amount of cultural context is lost in translation (asking for sailors refers to foreign sailors, tattoos are uncommon/associated with criminality in Japan), but it's not that obtuse. I can think of more obtuse, weird literal puzzles in adventure games (monkey wrench in MI2, good gag but fucking hell did it take a while to click).
Thanks. I am a little frustrated they're not making the most of the opportunities afforded to them by the game, but I dunno if I'd trade them doing that stuff for the fucking amazing fireball/fireboy talk that came out of it.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
ERs were never about "showing the best way to play a game for the first time".
This was very true for me. I kind of disliked it for the first half or so and then something clicked. It's far more than the sum of its parts somehow, many of which are not great or even shitty.
I think this format of a group of guys talking and making jokes over a game is really going to harm certain types of games and this is one of them. Arriving at a mindspace where you see and can accept flaws because of a greater feeling a game elicits is extremely unlikely when you're prime interest is filling air time to entertain an audience.
EmCeeGramr
Member
I think Spaghetti's trying to say that even if the ER's aren't billed as that, there are certainly people who watch them and take them as representative.
Spot on.
Will the Thrill
Banned
jesus christ some of those youtube comments....
Absolutely. But is it really on them to make it a good representation?
'If someone doesn't care about their weight, how can they care about videogames'.
Jesus Christ. I knew Youtube comments were bad, but that's some real shit right there.
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