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It's beautiful isn't it?
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Giant Bomb are bringing back the Endurance Run... and it's Shenmue.
- Thread starter MassiveNights
- Start date
It's beautiful isn't it?
Today's Giant Bomb would have rage quit as soon as it became clear that using buffs, debuffs, and fusing were necessary to progress and that you couldn't just attack spam your way to victory.
Anyone who is frustrated with these guys missing things or playing wrong, I invite you to listen to my latest Shenmue podcast where my cohost and I dive indepth on disc 1 of Shenmue. I wrote two pages of tightly packed notes and observations. 
https://m.soundcloud.com/user-147645417/episode-02
(Let me know if this is not cool to do. I know I can't make a new thread to advertise my own podcast but I'm not sure about just regular posts)
https://m.soundcloud.com/user-147645417/episode-02
(Let me know if this is not cool to do. I know I can't make a new thread to advertise my own podcast but I'm not sure about just regular posts)
No, but it is on the viewer to be intelligent and realize that this series (and most Giant Bomb playthroughs for that matter) is hardly representative of the experience you would have playing the game alone. When you're conversing about any number of random topics with other people, you're hardly paying full attention to the game. So when people like ScaryShark insist that the game is too obtuse simply because it expects you to explore the game's systems and mechanics for yourself rather than tutorializing, I can see why Shenmue fans get annoyed. I get similarly annoyed when people insist that the Metal Gear Solid games are bad simply because of what they see in Metal Gear Scanlon (i.e. someone struggling with controls and failing to grasp basic mechanics).
Quick Looks tend to be a little better because the person steering the game has usually played it for a couple hours prior to recording.
To change to a more positive note: Vinny did real good in his first FREE battle. You can pretty much roast most enemies using the basic punch and kick combos, but the counter system, more advanced moves, and dynamic throws make you feel like a fucking badass.
(From Shenmue II)
(From Shenmue II)
am I the only one who constantly hears the beginning of the Night Court theme constantly during this ER?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUltrX-ICew
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUltrX-ICew
My problem with the waiting in the first Shenmue is that I didn't find all the minor, time-wasting activities you could do very fun either. So I ended up just reading a book, or playing another video game while keeping Shenmue up in the background, because that was a better use of my time.
I'm glad that Shenmue 2 recognized all the complaints with the time system and just let you skip it. Much better game for it.
I'm glad that Shenmue 2 recognized all the complaints with the time system and just let you skip it. Much better game for it.
This reminds me of how cool it is that to make the 70 man fight work they had to do stuff like turn the Skybox off. Odd thing to enjoy but always stoodout as one last ballsy move.
Dead Man Typing
Member
I played through Shenmue 10 times and I found something new each time.
The game can be played in a variety of ways and I'm really enjoying the guys playing it. I haven't watched much Giant Bomb content outside of a couple of quick looks.
Go easy on these guys, it's hard to remember playing the game for the first time and not knowing the layout of the town.
The game can be played in a variety of ways and I'm really enjoying the guys playing it. I haven't watched much Giant Bomb content outside of a couple of quick looks.
Go easy on these guys, it's hard to remember playing the game for the first time and not knowing the layout of the town.
I've provided reasons why I think somebody wouldn't immediately go to the tattoo guy and I think it's a perfectly understandable perspective given what they have seen in the game so far. It's not like I'm saying your thought process is wrong or too obtuse or something, but having seen what they've done I totally get where they're coming from with their frustration and way of going about with things. The dialogue changing based on events is inconsistent and not always fitting, so I don't blame them for not relying on it.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Right
LIke, those guys have been telling Shenmue man to 'Kiss off' since the beginning
Hey do you know any Chinese?
"Kiss off"
Hey do you know sailors?
"Kiss off"
Hey do you know a guy who has a tattoo, leather jacket, and sunglasses?
"Kiss off"
Hey do you know a tattoo parlor?
"Oh fellow human let me tell you where it is"
To be fair, that's pretty standard procedure in a lot of point-and-click adventure games.
If they hadn't established already that NPCs will change what they say based on the answers you're looking for, then I'd totally be with you about it being too obscure a link to make, but they know that NPC answers are dependent on what you're looking for by now. That's not even just Shenmue's internal logic, plenty of video games (especially RPGs) employ the same method.
Again, it's not a huge deal. They'll get pointed in the right direction next episode by another NPC, it's just they could have accomplished a little more before saving, that's all. The pieces were all there, it just didn't click.
its so weird watching people struggle with shenmue. I think it's not the most "video game" logic kind of game is maybe it. But really, a 14-year old me could figure it out pretty well, just have to put yourself in the world, and be curious in the world who might know what.
Game Informer had a similar experience in their playthrough. I think Shenmue in some ways is the anti-video game and I love it for it.
Game Informer had a similar experience in their playthrough. I think Shenmue in some ways is the anti-video game and I love it for it.
But as people have pointed out already, the dialogue doesn't update for everything. For instance, when looking for where sailors hang out, they eventually learned of two potential bars. However, the dialogue continues to have Ryo ask about where sailors might hang out and people continue to tell him they like to hang out at bars, despite the fact that he has two names for places already. Stuff like this has happened several times already.
Additionally, for random NPCs with nothing to say that's relevant to the current question, you can at least infer that Ryo asks his question based on their response. With tattoo guy in particular, though, he doesn't even let Ryo ask him anything before picking a fight, so based on every interaction before, Ryo shouldn't even get the chance to ask him about the parlor.
To change to a more positive note: Vinny did real good in his first FREE battle. You can pretty much roast most enemies using the basic punch and kick combos, but the counter system, more advanced moves, and dynamic throws make you feel like a fucking badass.
(From Shenmue II)
Really, really this. As much as Shenmue isn't about the fighting, being good at Shenmue's combat makes you feel like a badass in a way that no other game ever has for me.
I think we're going to have to chalk this up to different styles of playing a game, because talking to those guys would be the first thing on my mind even if this was my first time playing Shenmue, regardless of any previous interactions with those NPCs. I've played enough RPGs where quest NPCs will have nothing relevant to say until it's time to trigger their part in a questline, so maybe that's colouring my view.
Asking tattooed guys about a tattoo parlour is basically 1+1=2 though, right? Maybe they'll search them out immediately in the next episode, and just forgot to stop by the arcade to advance the clue.
Well, the first isn't about fighting, but Shenmue II definitely makes it a more prominent part of the game. Disk 3 of Shenmue II alone has over double the fights than in the entirety of the original Shenmue.
I miss the easier counter window from the original, but I think it was probably nerfed to account for the dodge roll and faster evasion of Shenmue II's combat.
I have to admit, Dan's 1000 questions really starts to grate after a while. Really enjoy him most of the time, but after two or three episodes of him, apparently you can get too much of Dan! Especially when it's probably partially causing a few of their problems in the game. It's very much an old style adventure game in that you're rewarded for exploring and paying attention to detail, which admittedly you probably won't be doing talking about random stuff.
Either way I've always said Shenmue 1 is something that you'll probably love or hate. I mean I guess there's a reason old point and click adventures died. I think they'd enjoy Shenmue 2 a lot more. Shenmue 2 is probably better for most people just because it has a lot brisker pacing, more action, and even when you have to wait - the game allows you to skip ahead.
That said if they hate Shenmue so much maybe they won't even get onto it, lol.
Either way I've always said Shenmue 1 is something that you'll probably love or hate. I mean I guess there's a reason old point and click adventures died. I think they'd enjoy Shenmue 2 a lot more. Shenmue 2 is probably better for most people just because it has a lot brisker pacing, more action, and even when you have to wait - the game allows you to skip ahead.
That said if they hate Shenmue so much maybe they won't even get onto it, lol.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
As said, it's like point and click adventure games and old RPGs. This is from 1999 inspired by old adventure games and RPGs. In those games, npcs are mostly useful when circumstances require them. It's like bitching about the crazy guy in the windmill in Kakariko not making sense until you solve the puzzle. They exist as puzzle pieces and you can't use these pieces until the game hits a point where you can. Otherwise, making a mental note is a pretty smart thing to do.
I don't think this is a game thing though, I don't think having crossed signals would work for any game's design and I wouldn't ask him in a real life situation either. RPGs are probably my most played genre but they typically don't have conflicting game features.
But in any case, yes, I think our approach to game design and what we consider to be good is different enough where shaking hands and moving on is a good idea.
Vinny loves old school adventure games and plays a ton of them. I really just think it's the waiting part he dislikes, so yeah, Shenmue 2 should be better for him.
Revolutionary
Member
It really is interesting to see how much the Yakuza series learned from Shenmue.
But yeah, shame the guys were slowly losing their minds the more they played lol here's hoping they finally get some rest before the next episode. Unless the plan is to play the entire game in one sitting..
But yeah, shame the guys were slowly losing their minds the more they played lol here's hoping they finally get some rest before the next episode. Unless the plan is to play the entire game in one sitting..
Agree to disagree about the whether the choice was obvious or obtuse works for me, but I'm not sure I agree with defining a decision that relies on differing thought processes as good or bad. Just because I thought about speaking to the bikers immediately doesn't make it good game design, nor does it make it bad if you didn't have the same idea, y'know?
Cindi Mayweather
Member
As said before, the bikers isn't the only route to the tattoo parlor anyways.
Is it not?
I only really talked to them on my first playthrough and just ran to the tattoo parlour all other times because the event triggers anyway. Who else gives that information?
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Yakuza in Nagai Industries.
Maybe the bar tender at the bar with the crazy music and Fuku's hostess crush.
It's been a while because the bikers are my favorite route.
It's pre-recorded from last month judging by the save dates. Chances are they've probably already finished it.
Yeah true, but I wasn't really just referring to Vinny.
Alex seems like he was hating it entirely, not just the waiting.
The game design is the same regardless of what a person thought of. Just personally, I would never ever design a game with this combination of dialogue system and ambiguous messaging because I don't think it creates interesting gameplay. You do not see the same problems I do/are not bothered by how it is and have your own, more positive opinion. That's what I meant.
Ah, that makes sense.
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I hope they have the brainwave that they should go looking for tattoo parlours in the red light district because of them being associated with the underworld in Japan. Surely Alex knows about that kind of stuff?
PinkCrayon
Member
"Boy fire" had me in stitches
Incandenza
Banned
Alex was really spot on about this part of the game being a "yeah I mighta seen 'im!" scene from Law & Order repeated ad nauseum.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I find it so weird Dan hates Yakuza but loves Shenmue
Not because they're at all identical, but the things he calls out as stuff he loves are totally things in Yakuza
Not because they're at all identical, but the things he calls out as stuff he loves are totally things in Yakuza
He didn't play yakuza when he was 13.
Basileus777
Member
He's recently conceded that he needs to give Yakuza another chance.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Shenmue seems like a game that was mind-blowing back in 1999 but hasn't aged well....at all.
Intheflorsh
Banned
Most people like those old school adventure games for everything they did BUT puzzles. This game is like the worst aspects of adventure games, plus a bad story, plus mandatory periods where the player does nothing but wait. It's shit.
broncobuster
Banned
If Vinny retains his sanity enough to move onto Shenmue 2, they made many improvements to the, let's call them, obfuscated parts of Shenmue. It's got heaps of that Shenmue flavor, but waiting around for stuff to happen, both conceptually and literally, is greatly reduced.
Vampire On Titus
Member
I played through Shenmue again for the first time in a long time very recently. It was a ton of fun. Only real drawback for me is the stilted VA but some of it can be decent or at the very least funny. Began watching this endurance run and it started off alright but this recent episode was just abysmal. Maybe exploring the side activities isn't the most exciting prospect for everyone. I loved the exploration personally. But either way it's much cooler than just waiting around.
All the stuff you find and random events you come across while exploring really fleshed out the experience for me. It gives the game a lot of it's charm. Playing Shenmue I always find myself making the daily rounds. I'd talk to Fuk-San then spar and he'd be a worrywart. Noriko and some other girl would have gossip about Nozomi's feelings for Ryo. There's actually quite a few interactions that happen around caring for the kitten. Every time I've gone back to play it I end up stumbling across something new.
I know there's a certain contingent that cringes hard any time someone suggests another person might be "playing the game wrong." I get why too, it's definitely a frequently abused claim. Still, once we're in the territory of standing around for 30+ minutes I think it applies.
I'll likely keep watching just out of curiosity, though. Despite everything it's totally making me want to play Shenmue again.
All the stuff you find and random events you come across while exploring really fleshed out the experience for me. It gives the game a lot of it's charm. Playing Shenmue I always find myself making the daily rounds. I'd talk to Fuk-San then spar and he'd be a worrywart. Noriko and some other girl would have gossip about Nozomi's feelings for Ryo. There's actually quite a few interactions that happen around caring for the kitten. Every time I've gone back to play it I end up stumbling across something new.
I know there's a certain contingent that cringes hard any time someone suggests another person might be "playing the game wrong." I get why too, it's definitely a frequently abused claim. Still, once we're in the territory of standing around for 30+ minutes I think it applies.
I'll likely keep watching just out of curiosity, though. Despite everything it's totally making me want to play Shenmue again.
DarkConfidant
Member
The President is clearly watching something other than Shenmue (probably DOA).
Maybe watching this will make up for the lack of Shenmue 1&2 collectio, and I can begin to be interested in the 3rd one..
Wow I regrettably read some of the Youtube comments, I had to check this thread to make sure there were people out there on the same page as me. Episode 6 was the best yet, I was crying.
I've felt the sting when you feel like the GB crew is misrepresenting a game close to your heart because they "don't get it", but you've got to just let that shit go and realize they're doing it for entertainment.
I've felt the sting when you feel like the GB crew is misrepresenting a game close to your heart because they "don't get it", but you've got to just let that shit go and realize they're doing it for entertainment.
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