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[Brianimaniac]

One other thing I want to add about exploring is that the controls are a factor.

Shenmue was a bit awkward to control even when it came out, but in today's world where right-analog camera control is such a standard thing, it really makes games like Shenmue feel like a chore more than ever before.

If this was a game with modern camera controls, Vinny would not have missed Heartbeats for so long. But because it was in this little nook off to the side that's easy to miss if you aren't facing it, it's a bad situation, because turning to look at things off to the side is such a chore. A modern player doesn't want to turn unless he's turning to look at something specific that can be see clearly beforehand.

 

[_Ryo_]

I wonder how many people crying their playing the game wrong a) knew how to play the game correctly starting with zero insight and b) never used a faqs.

Lol.This doesn't even make sense. Where do you think FAQs come from before there are even FAQs to read? From people who've played and beaten the game without FAQs, cause there were none.

Gotta admit, its funny that you contradict your own theory that people could not figure the game out by themselves in the same breath you use to issue it.

 

[Brianimaniac]

Lol.This doesn't even make sense. Where do you think FAQs come from before there are other FAQs to read? From people who've played and beaten the game

Gotta admit its funny that you contradict your own theory that people could not figure the game out by themselves in the same breath you use to issue it.

Congrats on having the worst post in the thread.

 

[Wensih]

Lol.This doesn't even make sense. Where do you think FAQs come from before there are even FAQs to read? From people who've played and beaten the game without FAQs, cause there were none.

Gotta admit, its funny that you contradict your own theory that people could not figure the game out by themselves in the same breath you use to issue it.

Sure you have a few dedicated people who scoured every nook and cranny to create faqs, but I don't think that is a typical experience either. People who create faqs are as much of an anomaly as, suggested by some in this thread, the 'incompetence' of Giantbomb's playthrough and possibly more so. Also those who create the faqs have probably played multiple times gaining knowledge and experience with each successive playthrough, enough to create a detailed walkthrough at least; however, their initial experience is unknown if it was "correctly played".

So I don't think my statement was contradictory. My post was about going into the game with no experience with the game and knowing what to do and where to go, basically being a clairvoyant, to "play the game correctly". It wasn't about being able to complete the game without a walkthrough.

Edit: It should also be noted that FAQs are generally a collaborative effort. If the author misses some piece of information they typically cite (or fail to cite) a user that gave them the missing information.

 

[Zafir]

I have faith that many people played Shenmue without resorting to outside resources.

What you're describing is definitely a factor when people talk about things like old NES games or weird games like MGS1, though. They like to remember that they just figured everything out, but I think a lot of the time they're conveniently forgetting all the info they picked up from Nintendo Power or through shared playground knowledge.

Well no. I don't think that's true. I only knew one other person with Shenmue, and it wasn't until later I started getting gaming magazines. ;P

I mean I don't think people are even saying that they should know everything straight off. I don't think anyone did know everything straight off. It wasn't until many years later when I bought a Dreamcast again I actually found some of the cool little secrets of the game.

I think it's just people play games in totally different ways. I mean I personally, am a rather large RPG player, and with that it meant I would go around every nook and cranny, and talk to everyone in hope of finding something. Even to this day, when I play an RPG I purposefully go the wrong way so I can see if something is there. Now that kind of playstyle is probably a better one for Shenmue, because it means you'll likely find the little clues to move on with the story eventually.

I don't think it helps if you play the game now either. I mean for better, or for worse, games are a lot better at explaining things, even going so far as to shove it down your throat a bit too much. People get used to that, and so the expectation is for that to be the case on Shenmue as well, and it just doesn't shove things in your face. Like many games of the 90s, it expects you to read the manual(which does explain everything in pretty great detail). Whether that expectation is unjust is debatable, some people like the hands off experience(just look at Dark Souls popularity for it), but some people would rather just be told.

Bottom line, as I said before I still think it's a game you'll either love it or you'll hate it.

One other thing I want to add about exploring is that the controls are a factor.

Shenmue was a bit awkward to control even when it came out, but in today's world where right-analog camera control is such a standard thing, it really makes games like Shenmue feel like a chore more than ever before.

If this was a game with modern camera controls, Vinny would not have missed Heartbeats for so long. But because it was in this little nook off to the side that's easy to miss if you aren't facing it, it's a bad situation, because turning to look at things off to the side is such a chore. A modern player doesn't want to turn unless he's turning to look at something specific that can be see clearly beforehand.

I dunno, they were pretty standard controls for back when it came out. It wasn't really until later into the PS2 where games actually got better with controls and camera movement.

Although PS1 had a second analog stick, I can't think of many games that actually used it well...

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

They're all coming in fresh, though. Are Shenmue fans really trying to imply that they didn't stumble their way through the game their first time through?

I feel like watching them after they had read a FAQ beforehand going through the game could be even less interesting, and there are Let's Plays and gameplay videos out there that are much more well-versed and thorough.

If this was done in the style of their older Endurance Runs where they played it a bit each day, and got feedback in the interim, this would probably be a better playthrough, but that's not what they did.

The Giant Bomb crew can all be quite frustrating to watch play video games if you take it too seriously. It's best to just let go of that way of thinking and critiquing them if you plan to watch their content, because they and their content is always going to be that way.

I mean, it's fair. I did say earlier that the game is confusing at first. So I expect confusion. It's pretty normal.

Also, I managed to get through Shenmue without reading the manual or looking for outside help. When I got the game (almost ten years years after it came out btw) my copy did not come with a manual. It was confusing at first, but eventually you just get used to it.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

They've used the zoom button multiple times. Are you even watching? Sooo incompetent.

They rarely use it and for limited purposes. It's the best way to interact with the environment. Most of the time Vinny awkwardly tries to move Ryo around until he gets an A prompt, and talks to people he didn't intend to. All that is fixed with zooming. I'm not saying it's the optimal control scheme or anything, but it's what works best in the game.

 

[Spaghetti]

The game doesn't seem to give much of a reason to explore.

This is just a consequence of when it released, but this was a game world of unprecedented size and detail at the time. People were expected to explore because there was nothing else like it, and it was a fascinating rarity. It's not like today where worlds like this are fairly common, and players need incentive to look in certain areas like quest markers and points of interest.

I don't think it's fair to single out Shenmue as not giving cause to explore when large game world contemporaries like Ocarina of Time and GTA3 didn't either. You went from quest to quest, mission to mission, unless you decided on your own you wanted to explore.

It's still a little disappointing that despite running up and down the shopping street they haven't really taken much of a look what's there. The antiques store with move scrolls is a beneficial visit, and knowing where the fortune teller is (effectively the game's clue system) would be an advantage. There's still time for them to figure those out though, so I won't sweat it too much.

Oh, and the capsule toys function strictly as collectables in the first game. The reward is completing a set. In Shenmue II they can be pawned off for money, and you get more money for a complete set. Again, a lack of a distinct reward isn't that uncommon for the time. I'd rather complete a Virtua Fighter capsule toy set than collect all 150 Pokemon for an in-game certificate that said I did it.

 

[gelf]

One thing I think people forget when defending the GB bumbling is that when people first played this game, and a lot of the older games they've done long playthroughs of, they weren't actually coming in blind because games used to have Instruction Manuals.

Would it really be too much to ask to have them go through what used to be the tutorials for a game before playing it?

Obviously Metal Gear Scanlon taught us that the answer to this is apparently yes, but I still think it would ease fan frustrations a bit AND lead to more entertaining playthrough overall.

Really this is what bothers me about a lot of playthroughs I see of old games. These games came out in the days when you really were expected to actually RTFM and if you play them now without doing that your likely going to have trouble, control schemes where much less standardised then. When you've played a game before there is nothing more frustrating then seeing it played with basic functions not being used that a quick glance at a manual would solve.

 

[Spaghetti]

One other thing I want to add about exploring is that the controls are a factor.

Shenmue was a bit awkward to control even when it came out, but in today's world where right-analog camera control is such a standard thing, it really makes games like Shenmue feel like a chore more than ever before.

If this was a game with modern camera controls, Vinny would not have missed Heartbeats for so long. But because it was in this little nook off to the side that's easy to miss if you aren't facing it, it's a bad situation, because turning to look at things off to the side is such a chore. A modern player doesn't want to turn unless he's turning to look at something specific that can be see clearly beforehand.

In regards to modern controls, how often is it that player swings the camera around while running/moving? Right analogue stick camera control for exploration works best when static, right? I don't think even modern camera controls could have helped if Vinny was just dashing up and down the same street.

 

[Brianimaniac]

In regards to modern controls, how often is it that player swings the camera around while running/moving? Right analogue stick camera control for exploration works best when static, right? I don't think even modern camera controls could have helped if Vinny was just dashing up and down the same street.

I swing the camera around while moving constantly. The entire point of having movement and camera control on different sticks is so you can do both at the same time. If that isn't what you're doing, the result is that video of the guy at Polygon trying to play the new Doom.

In the case of Shenmue, you would continue moving down the street while looking off to the side.

 

[TharpDaddy]

Pressing right trigger to learn a basic feature is taking things seriously? Didn't Game Informer do an entertaining lets play and still do so competently? Or are Giant Bomb fans willing to defend just about any thing they put out? Because GB are entertainment, the way they handle that entertainment means they shouldn't be scrutinized? And Shenmue fans are the crazy ones?

Am I crazy or haven't they used the zoom button multiple times in the playthrough? Honestly asking.

 

[Spaghetti]

I swing the camera around while moving constantly. The entire point of having movement and camera control on different sticks is so you can do both at the same time. If that isn't what you're doing, the result is that video of the guy at Polygon trying to play the new Doom.

In the case of Shenmue, you would continue moving down the street while looking off to the side.

I'm not sure the DOOM comparison works out, because there's a marked difference between dual stick control with a first person game and rotating the camera while heading in a direction while moving in a third person game. I'll take your point though.

Mapping the head movement onto the right analogue stick to act as camera control will probably be a change in the eventual HD remaster.

Either way, it's kind of moot point because Alex noticed the stairs anyway, but didn't say anything until next episode, and I'd rather tear my eyes out than have another "is Heartbeats hard to find, y/n" debate.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Am I crazy or haven't they used the zoom button multiple times in the playthrough? Honestly asking.

They do, but pretty much only for reading signs. It's the primary means of interacting with the environment and greatly alleviates some of the shittiness of the controls.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I don't think it's fair to single out Shenmue as not giving cause to explore when large game world contemporaries like Ocarina of Time and GTA3 didn't either. You went from quest to quest, mission to mission, unless you decided on your own you wanted to explore.

You could find money, upgrades and heart containers in OoT. All those things are usefull ingame. In fact most places rewarded you with those if you explored them. Saying OoT gave you no reason to explore is just not true.

 

[sechsterangriff]

You could find money, upgrades and heart containers in OoT. All those things are usefull ingame. In fact most places rewarded you with those if you explored them. Saying OoT gave you no reason to explore is just not true.

Well, in Shenmue you can earn money, new moves, places to train, items that may be crucial/helpful at a later point in the main quest. So even if your objective is just to get through with the main quest there is some incentive to do some exploration.
Of course there's also tons of interesting collectibles and sub plots if you're willing to take your time. This to me is "the way it's meant to be played" and how Shenmue can best be enjoyed. You have this very detailed word (for the time) with a day/night date cycle, tons of NPCs with they're own "stories" and routines and you're assuming Ryo's role, so just go along with it!

 

[Spaghetti]

You could find money, upgrades and heart containers in OoT. All those things are usefull ingame. In fact most places rewarded you with those if you explored them. Saying OoT gave you no reason to explore is just not true.

I'm referring to the fact that game worlds used to give incentive to explore through sheer size, because they were a novelty.

I'm not going to deny that exploration yields helpful items in OoT (as it does in Shenmue), but when you hit Hyrule Field for the first time would you really explore it for specific items in mind, or just because you'd never seen anything that big before? That's pretty much the point I'm trying to make, because there was no game world like Shenmue's before, players would be given incentive to explore because it was all new.

No incentive to explore is a modern complaint because worlds like this are so common now, and I don't know if we can hold the game to account for not predicting the state of the industry 16 years from release.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

No incentive to explore is a modern complaint because worlds like this are so common now, and I don't know if we can hold the game to account for not predicting the state of the industry 16 years from release.

Fair enough.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I'm referring to the fact that game worlds used to give incentive to explore through sheer size, because they were a novelty.

I'm not going to deny that exploration yields helpful items in OoT (as it does in Shenmue), but when you hit Hyrule Field for the first time would you really explore it for specific items in mind, or just because you'd never seen anything that big before? That's pretty much the point I'm trying to make, because there was no game world like Shenmue's before, players would be given incentive to explore because it was all new.

No incentive to explore is a modern complaint because worlds like this are so common now, and I don't know if we can hold the game to account for not predicting the state of the industry 16 years from release.

Moreover, modern games all dot and pinpoint what you can do and exactly where you can do it on a map. Here's an eagle spot, you can do it here. Here's a car race, you can do it here. Shenmue games have never done this. You have to find things yourself with your own curiosity and experimentation. The game is more Majora's Mask than GTA.

 

[Brianimaniac]

No incentive to explore is a modern complaint because worlds like this are so common now, and I don't know if we can hold the game to account for not predicting the state of the industry 16 years from release.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_effect

 

[Spaghetti]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_effect

Directing me to a Wikipedia article isn't a particularly convincing counter argument.

 

[Brianimaniac]

Directing me to a Wikipedia article isn't a particularly convincing counter argument.

Hint: Behavorial conditioning is not a concept predated by Shenmue.

At this point, you're coming off as willfully obtuse, so I don't see much value in continuing to engage with you.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Hint: Behavorial conditioning is not a concept predated by Shenmue.

At this point, you're coming off as willfully obtuse, so I don't see much value in continuing to engage with you.

You've been incredibly rude and nasty this entire thread, and you're going to stop.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

None of it is meant to be a game changer, but I don't think GBEast has a huge problem with the game once it hits a story beat, it's just the waiting around that's frustrating them, and the lack of going with the flow and finding something they haven't tried yet that's frustrating people who've played the game before.

I think once disk 2 hits it'll be an easier ride for everybody. The plot stuff comes thick and fast, there's a new environment to explore, new characters introduced, a couple battles, and a mystery that involves searching around the house. It should probably scratch the itch for people kind of sick of them just standing around in the downtime.

Honestly it actually is kind of a game changer. Comparing this GB run to my recent one and other LPs; it's evident the game has changed. There's a lot of random events, side quests or cut scenes that you get from exploring and regularly interacting with characters. Others where it feels like you just have to be in the right place on a particular day. Unfortunately the chances of you seeing this stuff is ~ 0% if you're just standing around waiting out the clock.

All that really fleshes out the games world and makes it one of the most immersive open worlds/ game locales I've interacted with. Those moments where it'd take time before the next story beat always felt like an opportunity to see if I could make anything else happen. It really gave it that small town feeling too. Whenever I ran into someone where they aren't typically I knew some shit was going down.

And those days where there really was nothing going on I'd spar, or train, get some collectibles maybe but mostly play hang on. Every hour is 4 minutes in the game and it never felt like a burden.

 

[SMG]

And those days where there really was nothing going on I'd spar, or train, get some collectibles maybe but mostly play hang on. Every hour is 4 minutes in the game and it never felt like a burden.

Agreed, I always found things of intrest to do while waiting. I worry the S2 playthrough will be filled with time skipping. Part of me hopes they dont realize you can save anywhere meaning they need to collect the Ren meet money without save scumming.

 

[Spaghetti]

R.E: Behavioral conditioning, I'm not going to directly reply to that post because things might be getting a bit heated, but if we're talking conditioning in terms of exploring-

First place you start is Ryo's room, there's a cassette on the desk in full view. Grab it off the desk and open the drawers, and you find items in each of the three drawers. That's conditioning the player to think investigation = stuff, right? It's not like that concept wasn't applied in the game. I think my assessment of the game world being hampered by modern expectations still applies, given how significantly standards have changed in constructing those worlds.

And those days where there really was nothing going on I'd spar, or train, get some collectibles maybe but mostly play hang on. Every hour is 4 minutes in the game and it never felt like a burden.

In the typical solo playthrough, yeah, this is how it'd usually go. I was waiting for a meeting on Disc 3 and had a few hours to kill, so I just played two games of Neo Darts to beat my high score, bought a few capsule toys, and played the raffle. No biggie, and I almost missed the meeting because I lost track of the time.

I didn't need to be on the edge of my seat with excitement with huge stakes to enjoy that leisure time, there's just the simple pleasure of beating a score, collecting some items, and playing a game of chance. It's not like modern side-activities are more high octane (looking at you, GTAV golf/tennis/darts), but simple pleasures aren't given much importance, so I guess it can be easy to dismiss them in Shenmue as "nothing" because they're so throwaway in other games.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Agreed, I always found things of intrest to do while waiting. I worry the S2 playthrough will be filled with time skipping. Part of me hopes they dont realize you can save anywhere meaning they need to collect the Ren meet money without save scumming.

2 has better diversions than 1 anyways. Completely and utterly the better game imo.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

R.E: Behavioral conditioning, I'm not going to directly reply to that post because things might be getting a bit heated, but if we're talking conditioning in terms of exploring-

First place you start is Ryo's room, there's a cassette on the desk in full view. Grab it off the desk and open the drawers, and you find items in each of the three drawers. That's conditioning the player to think investigation = stuff, right? It's not like that concept wasn't applied in the game. I think my assessment of the game world being hampered by modern expectations still applies, given how significantly standards have changed in constructing those worlds.


In the typical solo playthrough, yeah, this is how it'd usually go. I was waiting for a meeting on Disc 3 and had a few hours to kill, so I just played two games of Neo Darts to beat my high score, bought a few capsule toys, and played the raffle. No biggie, and I almost missed the meeting because I lost track of the time.

I didn't need to be on the edge of my seat with excitement with huge stakes to enjoy that leisure time, there's just the simple pleasure of beating a score, collecting some items, and playing a game of chance. It's not like modern side-activities are more high octane (looking at you, GTAV golf/tennis/darts), but simple pleasures aren't given as much importance as side activities, so I guess it can be easy to dismiss them in Shenmue as "nothing" because they're so throwaway in other games.

This is my problem with the complaints about "they're learning the game!". When you first start, there is literally a tape directly to Ryo's left. It's meant to be a hint. "Hey, pick me up. Explore a bit." The entire house is a playground to be explored. Every nook and cranny. They're on episode 7. Guess what? The tape is STILL THERE. To me it's like playing Legend of Zelda, and seeing that cave to the left, which is obviously saying,"come inside" and rather than do it, they do everything but that. "What do I do? Why do I keep dying? This game hasn't aged well."

A few episodes? Okay, I'll cut them slack. But it's now episode 7 aka 7 hours of play time. Still there. I cannot in any way equate it to anything but idiocy. I just can't.

This is not incompetence, how exactly? Oh but sure, sure. "Entertainment."

 

[justjim89]

What's supposed to be good about this game? How are they playing it wrong? Is there a mechanic where the voice acting becomes better than horrible? Is there a mode where you do more than lame QTE's and walk around the city listening to the bad voice acting? I'm legitimately vexed by this after hearing people talk about how great Shenmue is for years and it turns out to be this. I can't see one good or interesting feature from anything they've played so far. Unless it's all just ironic love for the terrible voice acting like original RE1.

 

[Piston Hyundai]

What's supposed to be good about this game? How are they playing it wrong? Is there a mechanic where the voice acting becomes better than horrible? Is there a mode where you do more than lame QTE's and walk around the city listening to the bad voice acting? I'm legitimately vexed by this after hearing people talk about how great Shenmue is for years and it turns out to be this. I can't see one good or interesting feature from anything they've played so far. Unless it's all just ironic love for the terrible voice acting like original RE1.

Shenmue is maybe the ultimate "time and place" game.

 

[Matt]

This is my problem with the complaints about "they're learning the game!". When you first start, there is literally a tape directly to Ryo's left. It's meant to be a hint. "Hey, pick me up. Explore a bit." The entire house is a playground to be explored. Every nook and cranny. They're on episode 7. Guess what? The tape is STILL THERE. To me it's like playing Legend of Zelda, and seeing that cave to the left, which is obviously saying,"come inside" and rather than do it, they do everything but that. "What do I do? Why do I keep dying? This game hasn't aged well."

A few episodes? Okay, I'll cut them slack. But it's now episode 7 aka 7 hours of play time. Still there. I cannot in any way equate it to anything but idiocy. I just can't.

This is not incompetence, how exactly? Oh but sure, sure. "Entertainment."

Dude, maybe let's not call people idiots over how they are playing a video game?

The tape is on the desk yes, but there is no indicator or anything else to tell you it is something other than just a piece of geometry. If you don't know to be looking for it, or don't care to just stare at these hot 1999 graphics, it's easy to miss. They game isn't grabbing them, and it does a bad job of explaining these mechanics you say are so important to the game, so it's not unreasonable that they aren't really engaging with it on the level you want them too.

 

[mnz]

This is my problem with the complaints about "they're learning the game!". When you first start, there is literally a tape directly to Ryo's left. It's meant to be a hint. "Hey, pick me up. Explore a bit." The entire house is a playground to be explored. Every nook and cranny. They're on episode 7. Guess what? The tape is STILL THERE. To me it's like playing Legend of Zelda, and seeing that cave to the left, which is obviously saying,"come inside" and rather than do it, they do everything but that. "What do I do? Why do I keep dying? This game hasn't aged well."

A few episodes? Okay, I'll cut them slack. But it's now episode 7 aka 7 hours of play time. Still there. I cannot in any way equate it to anything but idiocy. I just can't.

This is not incompetence, how exactly? Oh but sure, sure. "Entertainment."

Maybe you should do something else with your time then. What's wrong with you?

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Reminding people again to be civil and not be rude or nasty.

The tape is on the desk yes, but there is no indicator or anything else to tell you it is something other than just a piece of geometry. If you don't know to be looking for it, or don't care to just stare at these hot 1999 graphics, it's easy to miss. They game isn't grabbing them, and it does a bad job of explaining these mechanics you say are so important to the game, so it's not unreasonable that they aren't really engaging with it on the level you want them too.

I dunno, I've seen other playthroughs from people who didn't really like or know much about the game, but they experimented with the controls or knew about the zoom button from reading the manual or pressing the help button and were immediately all, "Okay let's look around his room then." GBE just opened a closet, thought that was all you could do, and then left.

 

[Sayers]

Could not stop laughing at the "fireball" conversation from yesterday's episode.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

ITT: People shocked that an adventure game from 1999 is actually an adventure game from 1999.

Dude, maybe let's not call people idiots over how they are playing a video game?

The tape is on the desk yes, but there is no indicator or anything else to tell you it is something other than just a piece of geometry. If you don't know to be looking for it, or don't care to just stare at these hot 1999 graphics, it's easy to miss. They game isn't grabbing them, and it does a bad job of explaining these mechanics you say are so important to the game, so it's not unreasonable that they aren't really engaging with it on the level you want them too.

This post illustrates perfectly how much modern games have ruined/watered down game design in a bad way. Shenmue is an adventure game, it would only make sense that in an adventure game you, of course, do obtuse things like look at your notebook for clues, talk to people for clues and point and click (here done by first person viewpoint) on items to advance the storyline. It really isn't that hard, apparently it is to these guys playing the game?

The fact that you are saying Shenmue should have what modern games have with the "look here!" marker is well and truly unfair such an old game. Get stuck with an old game? Read the manual. It's literally just the right trigger to zoom in/switch to first person.

 

[SMG]

What's supposed to be good about this game? How are they playing it wrong? Is there a mechanic where the voice acting becomes better than horrible? Is there a mode where you do more than lame QTE's and walk around the city listening to the bad voice acting? I'm legitimately vexed by this after hearing people talk about how great Shenmue is for years and it turns out to be this. I can't see one good or interesting feature from anything they've played so far. Unless it's all just ironic love for the terrible voice acting like original RE1.

Whats so exhausting about running a marathon, I just watched a video of someone doing it and I feel fine.

 

[Brashnir]

Whats so exhausting about running a marathon, I just watched a video of someone doing it and I feel fine.

no

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Dude, maybe let's not call people idiots over how they are playing a video game?

The tape is on the desk yes, but there is no indicator or anything else to tell you it is something other than just a piece of geometry. If you don't know to be looking for it, or don't care to just stare at these hot 1999 graphics, it's easy to miss. They game isn't grabbing them, and it does a bad job of explaining these mechanics you say are so important to the game, so it's not unreasonable that they aren't really engaging with it on the level you want them too.

Okay, that's fair. It's still pretty inexcusable and perfectly exemplifies why modern games are the way they are. Then someone unironically says Dark Souls is the only game that doesn't handheld you anymore or whatever, but then can't figure out the controls of a 1999 adventure game and can't bother to explore a room. Modern games are watered down because people don't have the inclination to do the most basic of tasks.

 

[FStop7]

I also think that Vinny likes to occasionally "DSP it up" and exaggerate being clueless for the sake of trolling the audience and whoever is sitting in with him on the recording. Remember Bufu.

 

[Matt]

Reminding people again to be civil and not be rude or nasty.




I dunno, I've seen other playthroughs from people who didn't really like or know much about the game, but they experimented with the controls or knew about the zoom button from reading the manual or pressing the help button and were immediately all, "Okay let's look around his room then." GBE just opened a closet, thought that was all you could do, and then left.

I think reading the manual might have been a good idea, but I understand they are going for the "we don't know anything" experience, which perhaps this game is not conducive to. But I think it's pretty clear that the game isn't giving them any help with understanding these systems.

 

[watchdog]

It kind of surprises me that Vinny doesn't explore more considering he has said that he likes collecting everything in a game. I would like to see him exploring more to get some more silly dialogue but it's still fine. I'm enjoying the Endurance Run so far.

 

[Matt]

ITT: People shocked that an adventure game from 1999 is actually an adventure game from 1999.



This post illustrates perfectly how much modern games have ruined/watered down game design in a bad way. Shenmue is an adventure game, it would only make sense that in an adventure game you, of course, do obtuse things like look at your notebook for clues, talk to people for clues and point and click (here done by first person viewpoint) on items to advance the storyline. It really isn't that hard, apparently it is to these guys playing the game?

The fact that you are saying Shenmue should have what modern games have with the "look here!" marker is well and truly unfair such an old game. Get stuck with an old game? Read the manual. It's literally just the right trigger to zoom in/switch to first person.

Come on, I'm not suggesting the game do everything for them, what I'm saying is the the game hasn't given them a reason to do the things you are talking about. They aren't stuck, they are progressing through the story.

I'm not even blaming the game for anything, just saying the reason they haven't listed to the tape or feed the cat isn't because they're dumb.

 

[gelf]

I think at the time of release if you where at all interested in Shenmue you knew what the game was supposed to be about, it was well communicated in any sources I consulted. I knew from the start it was going to be a game that your supposed to be able to interact with everything so starting off that was the first thing I tried. Coming to it blind now not really knowing about it I guess you could miss that. Most games train you to believe everything is just dressing.

 

[Santar]

I always saw Shenmue as a take on the point and click adventure genre.
If you play it with that mindset it's actually really good, with a huge very detailed realistic world to explore every knook and crany of.
I always wanted a game where I could open and check out stuff in basically every cupboard, closet and drawer and pick up all sorts of stuff everywhere.

But if you play it like a modern open world game or a more actiony adventure game you'd probably be disappointed.
And I'm no huge Shenmue fan either, I haven't even played much of Shenmue 2. I just really enjoyed the first game when I played it.

 

[sechsterangriff]

I think reading the manual might have been a good idea, but I understand they are going for the "we don't know anything" experience, which perhaps this game is not conducive to. But I think it's pretty clear that the game isn't giving them any help with understanding these systems.

The only thing that somewhat annoys me is that they don't even do the "8 year old thing" of trying to see what all the buttons do or explore all the menu items. I understand them missing the "look and interact" mechanics, but missing the save function too?

 

[chromatic9]

Back in the 90s you'd click and walk around everywhere, this game was made just off the back of those times but in a 3D world, Vinny is coming at this with 3D modern thinking and thought there's no need to explore home and just expects the game to progress, probably heard its open world.

Will they find the Saturn or feed the bleeding cat. I was hoping when in the store the penny would drop to buy some fishy food.

Also a single player setting at home I'm sure they'd play it differently, they're sort of half concentrating and not taking in the locations very well while trying to do entertainment. If they explored a little bit more and looked at the screen longer they'd have more material to improvise on.

 

[Matt]

The only thing that somewhat annoys me is that the don't even do the "8 year old thing" of trying to see what all the buttons do or explore all the menu items. I understand them missing the "look and interact" mechanics, but missing the save function too?

I agree that's kinda strange, but if you watch the first ep they almost immediately click on the bed and they get the save and settings options, so I imagine they just thought "ah, that's how you save," and therefore they were never inspired to look for another way to do it.

 

[MaxiLive]

I've been enjoying watching this and it is great seeing being going back to it to find out how awkward the controls are and how odd the dialogue is and trying to use modern gameplay logic in a 15+ year old game. Like how they think the notepad is a quest log and how the granny wasn't still in the park after 2 in games days had passed.

I hope Vinny figures out how important the zoom is though, they'll get a lot more out of the game and find progress a little easier when he can control who he talks to and how to check things without being right next it.

 

[dhlt25]

I hate to admit it but they're playing shenmue like how I played it the first time. Just bumbling all over the place. But at least I tried to check everything when I played

 

[TheTylerRob]

What's so wrong with admitting that they're bad at Shenmue? GB is bad at most games; you don't need to defend their video game skillz.