Piston Hyundai
Member
why couldn't they have just made another space harrier or something
Giant Bomb are bringing back the Endurance Run... and it's Shenmue.
- Thread starter MassiveNights
- Start date
why couldn't they have just made another space harrier or something
Vampire On Titus
Member
Vinny was the only hope. I figured he might be able to see past the stilted VA and appreciate Shenmue for the odd and engaging open world adventure game it is. It's seven episodes in and forget the exploration aspect; there's still core mechanics they don't quite have a handle on yet.
Thing is, if you've been listening to GiantBomb's content over the years it's obvious certain members of the site wrote off the game a long time ago. Alex for sure. You're likely not going to explore about and see what the game has to offer if you decided years ago Shenmue sucks. It also dosen't help that Dan's in the corner confirming their bias by saying things like "Yep, this is totally Shenmue." despite evidently knowing very little about the game.
Have you actually read the criticisms of their run in this thread? The main one is that they're missing out on a lot of the games content by trying to critical path an exploration game despite every indication it's the least interesting way to play. Not the banter.
I dont even think anyone's arguing that they would definitely enjoy the game as a result of fixing this. But the chances of them actually discovering the charm of the world would increase exponentially.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
When you say "3 hour walk through the woods", we are talking about 3 ingame hours, right? Just to be sure
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Because then we wouldn't get the most atmospheric and beautiful segment in a game ever made. Space Harrier's time was over. It was beautiful music's time to shine!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx4m4yFh64Y
It could be 4-5 hours actually. And no, actual in real life hours.
Great points.
Though I'm not bothered at all by them not coming to grips with the mechanics and exploration aspect.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
And what do you do during this time?
It's definitely not 4-5 real life hours. I'd say it's definitely 2 hours, maybe a bit longer. If you didn't care about the dialogue you could speed run it in an hour easily.
To ask what you do, you learn more about Guilin, Shenhua, and the mirrors. The latter two are subjects which you'll be very interested in by the end of the two games, because well, they've been a core focus of the story but never really explained them up until this point.
If I'm going to be brutally honest, I still think they should have ended 2 on Kowloon. But eh, what can you do.
To ask what you do, you learn more about Guilin, Shenhua, and the mirrors. The latter two are subjects which you'll be very interested in by the end of the two games, because well, they've been a core focus of the story but never really explained them up until this point.
If I'm going to be brutally honest, I still think they should have ended 2 on Kowloon. But eh, what can you do.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
But, what are doing, gameplay-wise? People here say it's a "3 hour walk" but it's not actually just a "walk" is it?
Cause at this point I'm not sure if this sounds as ludicrous as I think it should.
You walk and talk with another character. I don't think the walk itself it 3 hours, probably closer to 2 hours and that includes the ending.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
You're whisked away from walled city Kowloon to the greenery of Guilin on an epic fucking adventure. They say there's treasure in Guilin and the mirror is a map to the treature, Ryo goes there. Also, Lan Di will be there because he's searching for the treasure.You meet a mysterious girl named Shenhua. She lives in the town you're going. Ryo is a fish out of water and has no idea where to go so she acts as a guide. The entire time you're just talking about life. It shows the comparison between Ryo's urban home life and Shenhua's rural life. It's a great contrast with the urban jungle of the previous disc. They talk about their life and life perspectives and what they value. There's a dialogue box so you choose every answer. While this happens, beautiful music and graphics display a place and experience Ryo has never seen as his horizons and worldview are opened. I came away from the experience with considerations I had never had before. It actually changed the way I thought about some things. The game gives the area a sense of spirituality and mysticism without being too overly wishy washy about it. I suggest every person experience Shenmue II for that section of the game at least once
I'd say 3 maybe 4. I don't remember.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I changed my mind. I no longer hope they play Shenmue 2. That sounds aweful.
Ah well,
it's mostly QTE's and running through the woods while you choose what to talk to Shenhua about. Outside of the QTE's you can make it as long or as short as you want the walk to be. It gives you an option to stop talking and move onto the next area. There's some scenes in a few caves and you can explore around the port and houses.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
It would be terrible for an endurance run.
"Okay here's part three of our walk."
It's basically an epilogue. It's at its best taken as a whole and done in one session.
Sexually Aggressive Uncle
Member
It's 3 hours and I know this because I remember looking at the clock after finishing Kowloon and then looking back again at it after it was all done.
You walk. You talk. You walk some more. You talk. You do some QTE bullshit to avoid trees and rocks just to make sure you haven't slipped into a coma. You walk . You talk. You camp. You talk. You walk. You look at a tree.
And this talking is all done via the same kind of stilted nonsensical Shenmue style that we all know and love. It just aggressively dumb.
You walk. You talk. You walk some more. You talk. You do some QTE bullshit to avoid trees and rocks just to make sure you haven't slipped into a coma. You walk . You talk. You camp. You talk. You walk. You look at a tree.
And this talking is all done via the same kind of stilted nonsensical Shenmue style that we all know and love. It just aggressively dumb.
Now I feel bad about not spoil tagging my post. =p
It's not awful at all. By this point the gamer is most likely invested in the characters, world, and story that it's a great way to end the game after the climatic boss battle before it.
It's really a beautiful part of the game that adds to it IMO.
It's not awful at all. By this point the gamer is most likely invested in the characters, world, and story that it's a great way to end the game after the climatic boss battle before it.
It's really a beautiful part of the game that adds to it IMO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUPS6qQSx1c#t=10h01m44s
It seems like mostly cutscenes and quick time events with a little bit of walking. I skimmed through this video. Forest starts at 10:01:44 and the game somewhat quickly ends at 11:49:19 with a dangling cliffhanger.
Seriously I can't grasp how, after investing around 40+ hours at the bare minimum beating Shenmue I (and a big chunk of II), you didn't care much about finally meeting the character on the cover of the first game, and learning things like what the name "Shenmue" means. Some answers most followers of the series had waited for 2+ years approx...
All accompanied by gorgeous music and visuals.
PS: IMO the dialogue in that part of the game is a notch above the rest of the series. You have more choices as a player, subjects are deeper and lines are longer. I don't know how it was in English (awful probably), but the Japanese Shenhua voice actress sounded great too.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Japanese voices are a step up because Shenhua's voice actress is so good and diverse in terms of emotional range. English version is solid but the change in voice actresses for Shenhua makes her suffer a bit because she lacks range.
LelouchViBritannia
Member
3hr walk in the forest was one of the best parts in shenmue. Those who got what it was trying to convey were in for a real treat. be it ryo slowly questioning his revenge, valuing his friends and loved ones more, learning about chinese culture and legend etc etc.
The music in that section is some of the best in all of videogames.
Those who are expecting a fight every 5 seconds or some massive over the top action sequence to happen should probably stick with yakuza.
The music in that section is some of the best in all of videogames.
Those who are expecting a fight every 5 seconds or some massive over the top action sequence to happen should probably stick with yakuza.
VibratingDonkey
Member
Like lots of things about Shenmue, the Guilin part of II was something I'd never experienced in a game before. Transferring a sense of going on a serene hike in a place that's overwhelmingly alien and beautiful. Don't know how well it has aged, but I loved that shit. If you want to distill it down to being walking for 2+ hours, you've missed the whole thing.
If it helps, that's the epilogue to a pretty action-packed game, and leads into the famous cliffhanger ending that left fans wondering what the fuck just happened for 15 years.
The entire of Disk 4 of Shenmue II is a character and world building exercise, and I think by the point you reach that part of the game the average player is sufficiently invested enough to enjoy that fleshing out.
Who knows how it'll play in an endurance run. It went fine in Gametrailers' great playthrough of the game (extra emotion because it ended post-Shenmue III announcement), but I don't know how a more skeptical audience like GB will take it. Also there's a chance nuance of character, world, and story will be ignored throughout the playthrough by both GBEast and the audience because it's not a focused experience like playing alone is, and so Disk 4 may like a slog.
But, if you don't want to talk to Shenhua you use the "hurry on" option to skip to the next area. That section of the game is purposefully fight-free and rarely puts you in a position where there's an active fail state, so if you really want to, you can breeze through it. There's a lot of good character moments in this section, though most of them occur during the opening, camping out section, and ending of Disk 4.
Also, this is a page or so back but I thought I'd chip in regarding the stealth section in the first game.
It's not great, but mercifully short. If you fail you lose a day but you're instantly brought back to the start of the stealth section, if you keep failing you learn there are less guards after 8PM and so the game starts you later with less guards, keep failing and someone literally gives you a map to the right warehouse. The "corridors" are wide so you can navigate them while running pretty easy, and the patrolling guard AI isn't super sophisticated.
I prefer the stealth section in II, but the one in the first isn't as merciless as some people have made it out to be.
It's not great, but mercifully short. If you fail you lose a day but you're instantly brought back to the start of the stealth section, if you keep failing you learn there are less guards after 8PM and so the game starts you later with less guards, keep failing and someone literally gives you a map to the right warehouse. The "corridors" are wide so you can navigate them while running pretty easy, and the patrolling guard AI isn't super sophisticated.
I prefer the stealth section in II, but the one in the first isn't as merciless as some people have made it out to be.
Berserking Guts
Member
I hope Dan is still onboard for convincing Vinny and Alex to try out Shenmue II. I'm worried the reaction here is gonna hurt that possibility though.
And Guilian was a fantastic reveal at the time. Just when you thought you'd seen everything this huge game had to offer they throw you into this wide open forest area, with rolling hills and rivers.
It felt like the game would have been fine ending in kowloon, but instead, they give you an hour or two preview of shenmue 3. It's too bad that sounds boring to this crowd, but whatever, I loved it.
And Guilian was a fantastic reveal at the time. Just when you thought you'd seen everything this huge game had to offer they throw you into this wide open forest area, with rolling hills and rivers.
It felt like the game would have been fine ending in kowloon, but instead, they give you an hour or two preview of shenmue 3. It's too bad that sounds boring to this crowd, but whatever, I loved it.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Honestly I wouldn't be the Shenmue fan I am if not for II. I is great and stuff, but it feels like - and is - a prologue for something much greater. Combined I think they make an epic series of games but II is the reason I'm such a big Shenmue fan. I think this is true for many others, and I think this is lost on those who aren't familiar with the series. If I is Star Wars A New Hope, a fun if flawed piece of entertainment, then II is Empire Strikes Back - something that takes the formula and pretty much perfects its rough edges and something more nuanced and detailed that makes you appreciate the entry that came before even more.
Shenmue saga without II is incomplete. 1 by itself is like the intro to Lord of the Rings before Frodo and gang go on their journey. II is the actual journey.
My fave.
Shenmue saga without II is incomplete. 1 by itself is like the intro to Lord of the Rings before Frodo and gang go on their journey. II is the actual journey.
My fave.
It definitely felt that long when playing that chapter. You're right, it should have ended on Kowloon. That whole chapter seemed really long and anticlimactic in comparison. And it was one of those times when you tell your significant other that you're "almost done", but don't actually finish for hours later.
Still, that cliffhanger made me long for Shenmue III, and at the time I thought that dream was dead. Thank God for Sony and Kickstarter!
Yeah, that's exactly what I thought when playing it. Not only did it feel out of place from a story progression standpoint (it really should have been the start of Shenmue III), but it was an environment not seen before in ANY of the previous games. That made it pretty cool to play
sechsterangriff
Member
"Where's Yokosuka??"
* facepalm *
* facepalm *
Zeouterlimits
Member
Amazing episode to watch while baking and laze in front of when finished up.
Vinny, Alex and Dan are all great.
I for one, am really enjoying it, but I understand if the game is something you really care about, how it might bother you.
It does seem a lot harder to internalise facts when playing while chatting with colleagues versus playing a game by one's self
If it was say, SOMA and they were missing things / not remembering things, I'm sure I'd be quietly fuming, even while trying to be patient.
Vinny, Alex and Dan are all great.
I for one, am really enjoying it, but I understand if the game is something you really care about, how it might bother you.
It does seem a lot harder to internalise facts when playing while chatting with colleagues versus playing a game by one's self
If it was say, SOMA and they were missing things / not remembering things, I'm sure I'd be quietly fuming, even while trying to be patient.
Yeah, I remember anticipating every Chrono Trigger episode with Patrick and Ryan but also simultaneously being super annoyed when they missed something awesome or something right in front of their face. It was all good though, still enjoyed it.
They got the flying time machine and abandoned it immediately in a random time period like Gerstmann dumping a bike on the side of the road
It was pretty good
THE Caffeinated
Member
I've never played Shenmue before but is this really it? Walking and talking to people the entire game or is this just the beginning and they eventually leave this crappy town/
hosannainexcelsis
Member
You leave, and then the game immediately ends.
slosherbomb
Member
i wonder what retro games will be in shenmue 3
BlanketFort
Member
So much chatter in this thread about how Vinny, Alex and Dan are missing the point... Reminds me of the absurdity of the whole game.
This old PA strip sums up why the GBeast focus on following the plot isn't "missing the point" or "doing it wrong" more like it is them trying to get into a story that's game isn't doing it too many favors.
This old PA strip sums up why the GBeast focus on following the plot isn't "missing the point" or "doing it wrong" more like it is them trying to get into a story that's game isn't doing it too many favors.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
So much chatter in this thread about how Vinny, Alex and Dan are missing the point... Reminds me of the absurdity of the whole game.
This old PA strip sums up why the GBeast focus on following the plot isn't "missing the point" or "doing it wrong" more like it is them trying to get into a story that's game isn't doing it too many favors.
Not sure what your point is. Ryo is a kid. He's barely a man. He's brash and impatient. Is he supposed to obsess over revenge 24/7 like every game about revenge? It's pretty realistic that Ryo still has a life despite the revenge. Is he supposed to be stewing and brewing all the time and completely lose interest in everything? I'm not sure what your point is or the relevance of the PA strip and GB's play through.
Also no one has said a thing about GB only focusing on the plot. Furthermore, exploration gives more nuance into the plot you say GB is concentrating on, like the letter from his father, or the lessons his father instilled in him. Exploring reveals all of this. I'm confused by your point if you have any at all?
Because Ryo wants revenge he can't enjoy a soda? Is he supposed to not eat now too? This is why Shenmue is the anti-video game. Any other game about revenge would make it front and center. Shenmue openly questions his revenge, and focuses on the people in his life, because it's ultimately about his life - not necessarily his revenge. If you just wanted a story about a hulking dude with a hard on for revenge you could just play God of War. I personally find a story about a kid who loses the only family he has left, drops out of school, and loses himself in the belly of the criminal underworld, with the only light being his own self actualization to be far more interesting.
BlanketFort
Member
Vinny, Alex and Dan are all historically very capable of losing themselves in curated and nuanced game worlds. That six episodes in it would appear that Shenmue isn't grabbing them isn't any fault of their own.
Your defensiveness over "God of War hardons" compared to the subtle nuance of "self actualization" misses the mark of the point I was attempting to make. Your straw-man reduction has nothing to do with that point: This game actively works against players looking to appreciate the (potential) story and world of Shenmue.
The gameplay itself. Not the writing or the art direction or the music or anything else.
That said, you are apt to point out that PA's comic is a bit reductive. Of course, Ryo has a life to live. That is what made Shenmue interesting to players then and what will hopefully hook the GBeast crew.
It is just unfortunate that so many gameplay elements (control, camera, targeting, UI, translation, etc) are working against their engagement with the plot and game world.
Why? People are clearing watching it and a ton of people are enjoying the series even if not the game. If anything, the reaction is probably strengthening the idea.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
At the moment I'd rather they look into Yakuza, if only because they're much less likely to "play it wrong". We'll see how this endurance run finishes off.
But if not Yakuza than Shenmue 2 for sure. I do hope they continue with these types of games at least. It's a genre I want to know more about, without necessarily wanting to sink time/money into it to find out for myself, and it seems like that's true for a lot of giant bomb fans.
Vampire On Titus
Member
"The game doesn't tell you to explore or talk to any of those people"
"Keep friends, the ones you love, close to you" is literally the last thing your father says before he dies. It might have been hinted at, just ever so slightly.
I dont get this. They actually seemed to be enjoying the game decently before hitting a brick wall with the time management stuff. I started watching the Game Informer run and they've managed to experience more content in the first episode than GB did in 6.
"Keep friends, the ones you love, close to you" is literally the last thing your father says before he dies. It might have been hinted at, just ever so slightly.
I dont get this. They actually seemed to be enjoying the game decently before hitting a brick wall with the time management stuff. I started watching the Game Informer run and they've managed to experience more content in the first episode than GB did in 6.
Man, I wish he could eat the foods you could buy in Shenmue. Those are perfectly good potato chips, Ryo!
Vampire On Titus
Member
He's full already from all the capsule toys.
soundscream
Member
Its no papa roach but its something
https://youtu.be/Kwjt05w2vKk
https://youtu.be/Kwjt05w2vKk
Glitchesarecool
Member
You aren't seriously arguing that vague line is an instruction to talk to people, are you?
Also I wasn't ready for Shenmue's resident fake Italian, Mario.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
At'sa too bad, ah?
Piston Hyundai
Member
oh yes, how could I forget Ryo's lifetime bosom buddy, the weirdo that sells hotdogs and is vaguely racist
wesleyshark
Banned
Watched the first two episodes of this while doing some long range hauling in Elite Dangerous. Perfect video series to watch to pass the time. Very amusing so far.
"Hi Mister! Do you want to wrestle?"
"Hi Mister! Do you want to wrestle?"
stump sock
Member
oh yeah, all of Ryo's close friends like the people that barely humor the socially inept kid asking about men with tattoos and schoolgirls who want nothing to do with him
or those little kids that he refuses to play with
or those little kids that he refuses to play with