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[Basileus777]

That's exactly the reason. Movies are different and have proven to be critics immune. Gamers feel Metacritic is too important in the publishers eyes and with a lot of people already suspecting foul play between publishers and publications no scores make a lot of sense.

The last thing anyone worrying about foul play should want is for critics to take industry practices like metacritic bonuses into account when making reviews.

 

[Unhandled Exception]

But should it be up to publications to "solve" that some publishers apparently attach bonuses to Metacritic scores? Or that some gamers see collusion everywhere?

I think the desire to want to avoid playing into whether or not some overworked dev gets an xmas bonus is natural if you're working in game criticism. It's not their duty to solve the problems of the industry, but it is up to them to speak out and make changes if they feel their interaction (even passively) with the industry needs to change.

I see it mostly as a sign of the immaturity of game critics and their audience. Metacritic or its impact should never enter the mind of a reviewer. And avoiding giving scores is usually a cop-out, a way to deflect responsibility.

When writing reviews, sure. But when developers flat out tell you that your review cost them compensation? I'd say it's impossible to not have that weigh on you, even if you're just doing your job.

 

[Zaph]

I see it mostly as a sign of the immaturity of game critics and their audience. Metacritic or its impact should never enter the mind of a reviewer. And avoiding giving scores is usually a cop-out, a way to deflect responsibility.

The entire industry is incredibly immature. Which is ultimately the root cause of so many problems.

 

[Myggen]

I think the desire to want to avoid playing into whether or not some overworked dev gets an xmas bonus is natural if you're working in game criticism. It's not their duty to solve the problems of the industry, but it is up to them to speak out and make changes if they feel their interaction (even passively) with the industry needs to change.

Publishers will just find another arbitrary metric that they can attach bonuses to (and has it been proven that that is something publishers actually do, outside of one or two cases?), or Metacritic will begin to attach scores to scoreless games reviews like they do with movie reviews. You can argue that a bad review can cost especially indies compensation by making people not buy the game. Should reviewers stop reviewing games because of that? It just seems silly to focus so much on a few cases of publishers being dumb, and critics should focus on being critics not what some publishers do with their reviews.

A few publishers attaching bonuses to review scores seems like a really small problem, and not something reviewers should worry about. But more importantly not something gamers should worry about.

 

[Unhandled Exception]

You can argue that a bad review can cost especially indies compensation by making people not buy the game. Should reviewers stop reviewing games because of that?

Review all things that consumers are to spend their money/time on. I've never even implied otherwise, so I'm not sure why you're setting me up to defend something you've chosen "you can argue" here. I don't think it's a mistake for review outlets to minimize their role in how publishers compensate their employees, bottom line. They're not going to remove/change part of their review process if they feel not having/changing it will limit how they do their job.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

Having pewdiepie replace review scores in advertisement of games has already told me that publishers are just going to take the youtube/twitch route to get impressions out of their games MONTHS before reviewers can.

Both Dying Light & Evolve took that route

I can see more publishers doing it as well.

 

[Myggen]

Review all things that consumers are to spend their money/time on. I've never even implied otherwise, so I'm not sure why you're setting me up to defend something you've chosen "you can argue" here. I don't think it's a mistake for review outlets to minimize their role in how publishers compensate their employees, bottom line. They're not going to remove/change part of their review process if they feel not having/changing it will limit how they do their job.

I just think it's silly to worry about Metacritic as a reviewer when part of your job is to tell people to stay away from buying something, possibly hurting that company's bottom line. I just don't understand what makes Metacritic so special in that regard. And I do think you run the risk of limit how you do your job if you focus on how your reviews will impact the company that's releasing the product you're reviewing.

Having pewdiepie replace review scores in advertisement of games has already told me that publishers are just going to take the youtube/twitch route to get impressions out of their games MONTHS before reviewers can.

Both Dying Light & Evolve took that route

I can see more publishers doing it as well.

Yep, and that will probably become an ethical clusterfuck. Say what you will about the ethics of most gaming publications, they do at least keep editorial and business separate. To my knowledge no Youtubers do that, which you're already seeing the effects of with Youtubers like Yogscast. If people are uneasy about publishers relying on scores from traditional outlets, just wait until they begin to rely on the word of Youtubers.

 

[Unhandled Exception]

I just think it's silly to worry about Metacritic as a reviewer when part of your job is to tell people to stay away from buying something, possibly hurting that company's bottom line. I just don't understand what makes Metacritic so special in that regard.

Because metacritic is an aggregate of numbers and nothing more. It doesn't reflect actual reviewer opinions, merely the arbitrary number of whatever site reviewing gave a game. Every site has a different method of arriving at an arbitrary number and they all mean different things at different outlets. So it's basically useless information all melted together that publishers use when they feel they need something to point at and say "This is why we're downsizing your studio, sorry.".

And I do think you run the risk of limit how you do your job if you focus on how your reviews will impact the company that's releasing the product you're reviewing.

Refinement is never a bad thing in a moving and growing industry. Even if some mistakes are made along the way, nothing regarding a review process should ever bet set in stone. I've worked in that environment and it is a hellscape.

 

[Myggen]

So it's basically useless information all melted together that publishers use when they feel they need something to point at and say "This is why we're downsizing your studio, sorry.".

Has that ever happened?

 

[repeater]

I find it a little bit funny that so much of the discussion here centers on Metacritic, when Eurogamer explicitly said that their main reason for abandoning review scores was that scores tend to be reductive and unnuanced and distract the reader from the actual content and arguments of the review. They explicitly said that no longer contributing to the weird Metacritic culture was not their reason for dropping review scores, but just an added benefit of doing so.

 

[avengers23]

It's days like this when a game like the newest Monster Hunter is released and you know Giant Bomb will barely notice it all that Patrick's absence is felt most keenly.

 

[funkystudent]

As other sites struggle to change their review systems lets all take a moment to thank Jeff for the one true review system. 5 STARS!


It just works.

1 star. Shit is busted. Dont touch it.
2 star This game just isnt very good but not terrible.
3 star. meh
4 star. Its decent.
5 star. Top notch stuff. I really like it.

Spoiler

or its kind of broken but netherrelm made it so whatever.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

The Western depiction of zombies and walking skeleton stuff in China are a no-no so the robot things was kind of creative.


Vasquez! Ortiz!

I'm probably talking out of my ass, but I still think that's some urban legend the government over there exploits to make foreign developers jump thru hoops or a few PMRC-level nanny-staters doing it out of personal tastes.

Or they can make them hop around with their guns out if they had any sense of style.

 

[Myggen]

I find it a little bit funny that so much of the discussion here centers on Metacritic, when Eurogamer explicitly said that their main reason for abandoning review scores was that scores tend to be reductive and unnuanced and distract the reader from the actual content and arguments of the review. They explicitly said that no longer contributing to the weird Metacritic culture was not their reason for dropping review scores, but just an added benefit of doing so.

The conversation here was focusing more on why gamers have such a big problem with scores, and that's mostly Metacritic. I'm not sure I agree with Eurogamer that it's better to go to a "3 star" system than a 5 star or at most 10 star, but whatever.

 

[stump sock]

It's days like this when a game like the newest Monster Hunter is released and you know Giant Bomb will barely notice it all that Patrick's absence is felt most keenly.

Jason's a MonHan fan. I'd like to see a QL of it even if I don't understand those games. I beat MH Tri and still didn't understand it.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

The conversation here was focusing more on why gamers have such a big problem with scores, and that's mostly Metacritic. I'm not sure I agree with Eurogamer that it's better to go to a "3 star" system than a 5 star or at most 10 star, but whatever.

More like a 4 star system with "nothing at all" being a weird fourth star in the middle.
I prefer a regular system but at least it's better then Kotaku's review system.

 

[Rapstah]

China seems to have an especially big deal with skeletons. As far as I remember, literally every single skeleton in WoW: Wrath of the Lich King was covered up somehow.

 

[TheMrPliskin]

It's days like this when a game like the newest Monster Hunter is released and you know Giant Bomb will barely notice it all that Patrick's absence is felt most keenly.

Sounds like someone is forgetting about Giantbomb MVP Jason Oestreicher.

 

[Unhandled Exception]

Has that ever happened?

Devs being layed off as a response to metacritic performance? Nothing public has surfaced that I know of. But as far as what I said about compensation being withheld, here are three results from the first page of a google search

Some will withhold compensation based on an unmet metacritic score. + 1 + 2

So as far as my example of employees getting the axe over metacritic goes, totally unfounded. However, some publishers have shown that they're willing to tamper with the livelihoods of their employees which if nothing else shines a pretty grim light on how much those publishers value their employees. If such a story did come out about some developers losing their jobs largely over metacritic performance I wouldn't be the least bit shocked.

I find it a little bit funny that so much of the discussion here centers on Metacritic, when Eurogamer explicitly said that their main reason for abandoning review scores was that scores tend to be reductive and unnuanced and distract the reader from the actual content and arguments of the review. They explicitly said that no longer contributing to the weird Metacritic culture was not their reason for dropping review scores, but just an added benefit of doing so.

I wasn't entirely speaking about Eurogamer's decision, though that is what brought the topic up.

 

[stump sock]

More like a 4 star system with "nothing at all" being a weird fourth star in the middle.
I prefer a regular system but at least it's better then Kotaku's review system.

there's a lot of reasons to complain about Kotaku, but they, more than most outlets, have grabbed onto exactly what your average gamer wants out of a review. "I don't care about anything except whether I should buy it or not. Tell me to buy it."

It's gross, but I can't fault them for just running with demand on the most blatant level possible.

 

[repeater]

The conversation here was focusing more on why gamers have such a big problem with scores, and that's mostly Metacritic.

Fair enough, my bad then.

I'm not sure I agree with Eurogamer that it's better to go to a "3 star" system than a 5 star or at most 10 star, but whatever.

It's not really a 3 star system either. Most games will not get any of the three labels, and the "recommended" label will be used to reward games that they consider interesting or innovative, even if other games without a recommendation are more technically accomplished (or even if they are more fun, but offer no meaningful improvement upon their earlier iterations).

 

[Fantastapotamus]

there's a lot of reasons to complain about Kotaku, but they, more than most outlets, have grabbed onto exactly what your average gamer wants out of a review. "I don't care about anything except whether I should buy it or not. Tell me to buy it."

It's gross, but I can't fault them for just running with demand on the most blatant level possible.

Probably, but my (very personal obv.) problem with it is that a 10/10 or 5/5 (or "Essential" I guess ) grabs my attention. I wasn't very interested in Sunless Sea but afte rit got a 10/10 from EG I looked it up and it looks exactly like the kind of game I might like. I don't really have the time or interest to read reviews of games I don't care about (or at least think I don't care about) so a simple "Play this" like Kotaku does is pretty worthless to me.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

just passed one of my forensic exams!!

give me content giantbomb to celebrate !

 

[stump sock]

just passed one of my forensic exams!!

give me content giantbomb to celebrate !

okay

e: this game looks dumb

 

[Fantastapotamus]

just passed one of my forensic exams!!

give me content giantbomb to celebrate !

Here you go

 

[Zaph]

just passed one of my forensic exams!!

give me content giantbomb to celebrate !

Congrats!

 

[Dany]

I dunno if I'll continue to listen to danswers. I loved jeffs response to the dude wanting to wear yoga pants. but dan says 'regular dude pants"

>_>


Good on danny for telling dan off about 'crazy people'

 

[Unhandled Exception]

I dunno if I'll continue to listen to danswers. I loved jeffs response to the dude wanting to wear yoga pants. but dan says 'regular dude pants"

>_>


Good on danny for telling dan off about 'crazy people'

Something that tickles me about Dan is his almost pathological need to be seen as a normal but cool dude and not fancy. Yet he's probably just as finicky about food and everything else in life as someone he'd regard as "fancy".

 

[Wunder]

just passed one of my forensic exams!!

give me content giantbomb to celebrate !

YAY

 

[KingKong]

Something that tickles me about Dan is his almost pathological need to be seen as a normal but cool dude and not fancy. Yet he's probably just as finicky about food and everything else in life as someone he'd regard as "fancy".

well according to Dan things people cool normal people are into: wrestling, videogames and drinking, and not into: drugs, raves, anything he doesn't like so I wouldn't take it too seriously

 

[popo]

It's days like this when a game like the newest Monster Hunter is released and you know Giant Bomb will barely notice it all that Patrick's absence is felt most keenly.

It isn't like Patrick was a huge monster hunter fan - he was just seeking out undercovered games. It was admirable but I am not sure who it served. Most GB visitors will already have decided if they have any interest in the game - and if so there is much better coverage available.

 

[Dany]

well according to Dan things people cool normal people are into: wrestling, videogames and drinking, and not into: drugs, raves, anything he doesn't like so I wouldn't take it too seriously

Lol, so what value is his advice?

 

[Unhandled Exception]

well according to Dan things people cool normal people are into: wrestling, videogames and drinking, and not into: drugs, raves, anything he doesn't like so I wouldn't take it too seriously

I take very little about Dan seriously. We're all good.

 

[Myggen]

I dunno if I'll continue to listen to danswers. I loved jeffs response to the dude wanting to wear yoga pants. but dan says 'regular dude pants"

>_>


Good on danny for telling dan off about 'crazy people'

I think Danny misunderstood Dan a bit when it came to "crazy people". IIRC that was regarding the question from the dude who wanted to break up with his GF of four years, and Danny thought Dan was referring to that specific girl as a crazy person when he was speaking in general terms about how it's easier to break up with someone when you're arguing and fighting a lot, compared to someone you still very much like but do not love anymore. That's how I read that at least.

 

[hamchan]

It's days like this when a game like the newest Monster Hunter is released and you know Giant Bomb will barely notice it all that Patrick's absence is felt most keenly.

Jason A.Striker has you covered.

 

[popo]

just passed one of my forensic exams!!

give me content giantbomb to celebrate !

I passed a forensic test too. I told that crazy girl she didn't catch it from me.

 

[Dany]

I passed a pharmacology exam where I had to memorize 22 drugs and their interactions/effects.

yay #spreadthelove

 

[Hellers]

Normal is overrated

 

[Jintor]

Lol, so what value is his advice?

As a Dan yourself surely you should appreciate the advice of any dan

but seriously, as with anybody's advice, the answer is: as much value as you, the listener, want to place on it

 

[Dany]

Normal is overrated

Pretty much.

 

[Incandenza]

Normal doesn't actually exist

More like...

 

[HappenstanceUK]

Im still not sure if Danswers should be a thing at all. Im sure it will be entertaining at times but I absolutely do not think Dan should be giving serious advice to people, especially with his tendancy to make grand statements of dislike or disgust for anything that isnt in his line of thinking.

 

[Jintor]

If you're creatively minded you sometimes just have to force yourself to be creative also. I've wanted to do leathercrafting for the longest time but never got around to it, but one day just thought "enough is enough" and I've had a lot of fun making bags and wallets and other stuff since.

damn whippy, that's cool as shit.

 

[Myggen]

Im still not sure if Danswers should be a thing at all. Im sure it will be entertaining at times but I absolutely do not think Dan should be giving serious advice to people, especially with his tendancy to make grand statements of dislike or disgust for anything that isnt in his line of thinking.

You shouldn't take it so seriously, I'm sure few others are.

he's allowed to criticize it.

Of course. I just don't think it's going to hurt anyone.

 

[SlowRevolution]

You shouldn't take it so seriously, I'm sure few others are.

he's allowed to criticize it.

 

[Rapstah]

The Ratz: Instagib soundtrack just makes me think of Rollcage.

 

[RepairmanJack]

People take Dan everything way too seriously.

 

[avengers23]

Jason A.Striker has you covered.

Sounds like someone is forgetting about Giantbomb MVP Jason Oestreicher.

Jason's a MonHan fan. I'd like to see a QL of it even if I don't understand those games. I beat MH Tri and still didn't understand it.

Jason's great, but he's not editorial. And the divisions between editorial and production at GB aren't non-permeable, but they are there.

It isn't like Patrick was a huge monster hunter fan - he was just seeking out undercovered games. It was admirable but I am not sure who it served. Most GB visitors will already have decided if they have any interest in the game - and if so there is much better coverage available.

It's Patrick's willingness to try games outside his comfort zone that's sorely lacking in the crew that we have. Sometimes, you just need that catalyst in the group.

 

[Zaph]

When Jason mentioned being really into Monster Hunter, I was hoping someone would suggest he do a feature on MH4. I'm gonna pick it up with a new 3DS, so a beginner video series would have been great.

 

[TheMrPliskin]

Jason's great, but he's not editorial. And the divisions between editorial and production at GB aren't non-permeable, but they are there.

Jason being production doesn't mean much, we'll get a quicklook which is what we would get if Patrick was there.

I'd also love a Monster Hunter feature as someone who is jumping in with 4, Dan did mention wanting to give the series another shot so there's the excuse to do it.