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Giant Bomb XX | Donut Create Push

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justjim89

Member
I legitimately wish I could understand fighting games. But they vex me on a conceptual level. Why does every fighter not have the same set of inputs to do their movesets? Why does every move have to be a complex set of movement gestures and random punch/kick buttons? Those are the two big ones, but I could write an essay about all the ways fighting games confuse me. I look at something like Street Fighter or Mortal Combat and just think to myself "Smash Bros. makes a hell of a lot more sense than this."
 
santeesioux

santeesioux

Member
shortsFortallPeople said:
It requires that a man who by his very nature always avoids doing side quests in any and all games that he plays do at least a dozen hours worth of both side quests and actual missions to complete the game, as well as leave all yellow marked tapes running in the background.

I'd almost rather he didn't even bother, he's already clearly done with the game and anything past this point is going to be a lot of drew whining about the end of MGSV. Which he wouldn't be in the wrong to whine about, really.

I think drew should've just played the game on the side, Drew mustve felt pressured to play it in an action style to keep it entertaining when the best parts of the game are being stealthy and using your tools to try and finish missions undetected.

So im not going to be shocked when they do a livestream of drew either playing Dan's save file for the final mission(s) thus skipping the bullshit or if they simply watch the last few cutscenes and call it a wrap. I at least hope that they do just load either dan or jason's or whomever's save file to let drew play the last few "real" missions so that he can at least put a bow on the game properly.
Click to expand...

I hope they at least watch some Youtube videos of the last few missions, but yeah, everyone seems to be pretty sick of 5. Hopefully it hasn't completely poisoned the well with the idea of playing Rising, that would be a breath of fresh air like later in the year and could be completed in a couple of episodes.
 
F

frostyxc

Member
Do you know what deep examination of a shallow pool nets you? Wet shins and maybe some dirt in-between your toes. You can see everything from the surface, so trying to go much deeper than that is pretty much a waste of time. And it really annoys the tadpoles.

Whoa, that was a metaphor! I'm going to pat myself on the back AND head later.

What I'm trying to say is: These are just video games. The desire for some sort of deep "integrity" in the games press is charming in its continued naiveté. While it must suck that the mind share of the old horses in the games press is being usurped by these young stallions on YouTube with questionable "ethics," the huffing and puffing of said games press bandying about my handily quoted buzzwords is laughable.

There are product reviews and there are paid endorsements. Folks like Danny do product reviews that are bound by restrictions that were created by the publishers to control the message as much as possible by these mavericks. The paid endorsements are created by the publishers in this brave, new streaming video world to completely control the message. They're two sides of the same coin. It just happens to be that one side of the coin is old and nicked up, while the other side is shiny, new-looking and getting all the gol-darned attention! That sparkling, ebullient side of the coin also makes more cash money than the tarnished side of the coin without even having to leave their bedrooms or learn how to edit video properly! Grr!

Very little in life is an even playing field that Danny is bemoaning, especially in commerce. Oh, that JonTron (ugh) got to talk about that game you want to talk about before you're allowed to? Well, get as much attention as that guy (I'm not writing that stupid handle again) and maybe your publishing masters will let you put out videos early. Worried that these streamerinos (trademark pending) might be paid to be positive on the game? It's usually marked as paid content, so who cares? Do the games press think that the consumers are so stupid as to just blindly buy whatever someone says? Cognitive dissonance much? Well, there are a lot of stupid people out there, but who cares? It's video games. People have a right to do stupid things and spend their money however they want. I don't think any streamer is urging viewers to Jihad or using Crest toothpaste.

I'm getting tired of folks in the old guard complaining about the shift in marketing from them to these unethical, money-grubbing upstarts. They both push a product for the publishers, just one side thinks they're doing some profound public service. If you don't like it, innovate your ethical, range-fed coverage. Miffed at how someone who calls himself... *sigh* JonTron (Last time!)... is stealing your thunder? Make up your own cool handle and wear a silly hat, or something. Maybe juggle. The kids LOVE juggling! It's the hornet's forehead! Hmm... not going to trademark that one. Innovate and move forward.

I'm not really singling out Danny on this, but his Tweets a few pages back sparked my neuron bundle. Alex also often takes this holier-than-thou tone, as well as pretty much anyone in the "traditional" games press. They'd probably enjoy their not-profound-but-enjoyable careers a lot more if they just realized that games don't matter, accept the leash they're bound to by the publishers, commerce comes before art, and just have fun and not get into high school bull-honkey about who's getting more attention than you are. Again, they're just video games. Sure, they cost money, but so do Crock-Pot's.

I'm not endorsing these streamadingdongs (Better?), by any means. I find them annoying and unbearable, but I'm also older, cynical, and far more handsome. The Adonis of Troll Mountain, they call me. The Apollo of Cave Troll Hollow--I'm coming for you!
 
S

skLaFarebear

Member
justjim89 said:
I legitimately wish I could understand fighting games. But they vex me on a conceptual level. Why does every fighter not have the same set of inputs to do their movesets? Why does every move have to be a complex set of movement gestures and random punch/kick buttons? Those are the two big ones, but I could write an essay about all the ways fighting games confuse me. I look at something like Street Fighter or Mortal Combat and just think to myself "Smash Bros. makes a hell of a lot more sense than this."
Click to expand...

Well, most fighters (let's take SF for example) have 6 buttons. light punch, medium punch, heavy punch, and then light kick, medium kick, heavy kick. There'd be no room to have specials like a fireball or a dragon punch set to a button instead of a motion (though Rising Thunder does do this). As for why some motions are the way they are? There's an argument for that to make them simpler inputs, and that's what SFV is doing. You're not gonna see anything weird like double half circle backs and delta motions in this game.

As for why it's punch or kick? Well it depends on what you're doing. Ryu's fireball is done from his hands, so it makes sense that it'd be a motion with punches. Ryu's tatsu (the spinning long range kick) is done with his legs, so it'd make sense if that input is done with a kick button. Some characters, the motions it just makes sense in a way that's hard to explain. Like Zangief having a 360 motion with the stick just feels natural for a grappler in a way that's hard for me to describe.

Edit: and then there's some characters that just have weird motions because there's no room left to put it in a place that feels more natural. Laura's half circle back command grab is done with kicks because quarter circle back punches is her fireball and it'd be difficult to assign them both to punches without screwing up the input.
 
X

Xater

Member
skLaFarebear said:
Well, most fighters (let's take SF for example) have 6 buttons. light punch, medium punch, heavy punch, and then light kick, medium kick, heavy kick. There'd be no room to have specials like a fireball or a dragon punch set to a button instead of a motion (though Rising Thunder does do this). As for why some motions are the way they are? There's an argument for that to make them simpler inputs, and that's what SFV is doing. You're not gonna see anything weird like double half circle backs and delta motions in this game.

As for why it's punch or kick? Well it depends on what you're doing. Ryu's fireball is done from his hands, so it makes sense that it'd be a motion with punches. Ryu's tatsu (the spinning long range kick) is done with a kick motion, so it'd make sense if that input is done with a kick button. Some characters, the motions it just makes sense in a way that's hard to explain. Like Zangief having a 360 motion with the stick just feels natural for a grappler in a way that's hard for me to describe.
Click to expand...

Also harder motions like the 360 are most likely associated with a move that does more damage. Imagine his pile driver being a fireball motion, he would be a total beast in the game.
 
S

skLaFarebear

Member
Xater said:
Also harder motions like the 360 are most likely associated with a move that does more damage. Imagine his pile driver being a fireball motion, he would be a total beast in the game.
Click to expand...

That makes sense. Having a fireball motion for Gief's spd (spinning pile driver) would likely make him really OP since the damage done wouldn't match the barrier of execution.

Edit: if anyone's even remotely interested in learning SF, I highly recommend checking out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AomsfS_8cT8 and any of the parts that follow up after it. Gootecks is a great teacher for beginners.
 
S

stump sock

Member
Xater said:
Also harder motions like the 360 are most likely associated with a move that does more damage. Imagine his pile driver being a fireball motion, he would be a total beast in the game.
Click to expand...

speaking of, I'm pretty sure that piledriver was impossible to pull off in the original SNES SFII

justjim89 said:
I spent one afternoon last year playing about 3 hours of Mortal Combat 9's story mode
Click to expand...

stop playing bootleg video games
 
J

justjim89

Member
skLaFarebear said:
Well, most fighters (let's take SF for example) have 6 buttons. light punch, medium punch, heavy punch, and then light kick, medium kick, heavy kick. There'd be no room to have specials like a fireball or a dragon punch set to a button instead of a motion (though Rising Thunder does do this). As for why some motions are the way they are? There's an argument for that to make them simpler inputs, and that's what SFV is doing. You're not gonna see anything weird like double half circle backs and delta motions in this game.

As for why it's punch or kick? Well it depends on what you're doing. Ryu's fireball is done from his hands, so it makes sense that it'd be a motion with punches. Ryu's tatsu (the spinning long range kick) is done with his legs, so it'd make sense if that input is done with a kick button. Some characters, the motions it just makes sense in a way that's hard to explain. Like Zangief having a 360 motion with the stick just feels natural for a grappler in a way that's hard for me to describe.

Edit: and then there's some characters that just have weird motions because there's no room left to put it in a place that feels more natural. Laura's half circle back command grab is done with kicks because quarter circle back punches is her fireball and it'd be difficult to assign them both to punches without screwing up the input.
Click to expand...

That makes sense, I can appreciate the point you're making. It's just beyond me at this point. I spent one afternoon last year playing about 3 hours of Mortal Combat 9's story mode that everyone seems to love, hoping it would help me get the whole thing. But all that really happened is I ended up with sore thumbs for about a week. I try my best not to shit on fighting games much, cause I know I'm just an idiot and it's not the genre's fault that I don't understand.

But hey, you wanna know how you do a fireball in Smash Bros? You press B.
 
X

Xater

Member
stump sock said:
speaking of, I'm pretty sure that piledriver was impossible to pull off in the original SNES SFII
Click to expand...

I was able to do it, but it was way harder than it is now. So doing it consistently on a pad sucked. Today in SF the motion isn't even a real 360. Going from let's say forward to up is enough to registered as the motion.


justjim89 said:
That makes sense, I can appreciate the point you're making. It's just beyond me at this point. I spent one afternoon last year playing about 3 hours of Mortal Combat 9's story mode that everyone seems to love, hoping it would help me get the whole thing. But all that really happened is I ended up with sore thumbs for about a week. I try my best not to shit on fighting games much, cause I know I'm just an idiot and it's not the genre's fault that I don't understand.

But hey, you wanna know how you do a fireball in Smash Bros? You press B.
Click to expand...

You will not learn anything by just hoping into story mode. If you want to learn you have to hit training, learn the motions, build muscle memory, learn combos.

Smash is not particularly varied because of it. Just watching Smash puts me to sleep. A fireball in Smash is also less important than it is in SF. How much damage does a fireball from Mario do? 2%?
 
H

Hamst3r

Member
justjim89 said:
Why does every fighter not have the same set of inputs to do their movesets?
Click to expand...

A lot of them do. If you just learn Ryu's fireball, dragon punch, and hurricane kick (or simplified, just try a quarter circle in any direction + button, or a F-D-F + button.), you'll be able to pick up and play so many other characters.

If those moves aren't working, try the E.Honda moveset. Charge back, forward and a button; charge down, up and a button; and mash a button. Chances are those will work if the Ryu inputs aren't.

I'm no fighting game expert, but just doing the above has made it simple enough to pick up new fighting games.

If none of the above works, you might be playing as Vega, or possibly playing Tekken, at which point I can't help you.
 
B

Brashnir

Member
stump sock said:
speaking of, I'm pretty sure that piledriver was impossible to pull off in the original SNES SFII
Click to expand...

As someone who played against a friend a lot who mained Gief, my memory says this is incorrect. I remember eating that damn spinning piledriver so many times....

Of course, if it was only the original version, my memory may be coming from SF2Turbo on SNES or something.
 
S

stump sock

Member
Brashnir said:
As someone who played against a friend a lot who mained Gief, my memory says this is incorrect. I remember eating that damn spinning piledriver so many times....

Of course, if it was only the original version, my memory may be coming from SF2Turbo on SNES or something.
Click to expand...

I could do it in turbo, and a friend of mine definitely got me with it in vanilla, but I never once, across several years, pulled off even once. "impossible" is an exaggeration, but not much of one
 
C

Chuck

Still without luck
I refuse to both be expected to know and/or learn what the term sandbagging means, thank you very much.
 
J

justjim89

Member
Oh man, Jeff and Dan's significant others love Morrowind. Now I just want them to do a premium Morrowind fancast. More people need to know about Bethesda's best game these days.

Morrowind is love, Morrowind is life.
 
T

The Dear Leader

Banned
justjim89 said:
Oh man, Jeff and Dan's significant others love Morrowind. Now I just want them to do a premium Morrowind fancast. More people need to know about Bethesda's best game these days.

Morrowind is love, Morrowind is life.
Click to expand...

Best Elder Scrolls theme rendition too, ill fite any1 irl if u disagree.
 
L

LurkerPrime

Member
frostyxc said:
Do you know what deep examination of a shallow pool nets you? Wet shins and maybe some dirt in-between your toes. You can see everything from the surface, so trying to go much deeper than that is pretty much a waste of time. And it really annoys the tadpoles.

Whoa, that was a metaphor! I'm going to pat myself on the back AND head later.

What I'm trying to say is: These are just video games. The desire for some sort of deep "integrity" in the games press is charming in its continued naiveté. While it must suck that the mind share of the old horses in the games press is being usurped by these young stallions on YouTube with questionable "ethics," the huffing and puffing of said games press bandying about my handily quoted buzzwords is laughable.

There are product reviews and there are paid endorsements. Folks like Danny do product reviews that are bound by restrictions that were created by the publishers to control the message as much as possible by these mavericks. The paid endorsements are created by the publishers in this brave, new streaming video world to completely control the message. They're two sides of the same coin. It just happens to be that one side of the coin is old and nicked up, while the other side is shiny, new-looking and getting all the gol-darned attention! That sparkling, ebullient side of the coin also makes more cash money than the tarnished side of the coin without even having to leave their bedrooms or learn how to edit video properly! Grr!

Very little in life is an even playing field that Danny is bemoaning, especially in commerce. Oh, that JonTron (ugh) got to talk about that game you want to talk about before you're allowed to? Well, get as much attention as that guy (I'm not writing that stupid handle again) and maybe your publishing masters will let you put out videos early. Worried that these streamerinos (trademark pending) might be paid to be positive on the game? It's usually marked as paid content, so who cares? Do the games press think that the consumers are so stupid as to just blindly buy whatever someone says? Cognitive dissonance much? Well, there are a lot of stupid people out there, but who cares? It's video games. People have a right to do stupid things and spend their money however they want. I don't think any streamer is urging viewers to Jihad or using Crest toothpaste.

I'm getting tired of folks in the old guard complaining about the shift in marketing from them to these unethical, money-grubbing upstarts. They both push a product for the publishers, just one side thinks they're doing some profound public service. If you don't like it, innovate your ethical, range-fed coverage. Miffed at how someone who calls himself... *sigh* JonTron (Last time!)... is stealing your thunder? Make up your own cool handle and wear a silly hat, or something. Maybe juggle. The kids LOVE juggling! It's the hornet's forehead! Hmm... not going to trademark that one. Innovate and move forward.

I'm not really singling out Danny on this, but his Tweets a few pages back sparked my neuron bundle. Alex also often takes this holier-than-thou tone, as well as pretty much anyone in the "traditional" games press. They'd probably enjoy their not-profound-but-enjoyable careers a lot more if they just realized that games don't matter, accept the leash they're bound to by the publishers, commerce comes before art, and just have fun and not get into high school bull-honkey about who's getting more attention than you are. Again, they're just video games. Sure, they cost money, but so do Crock-Pot's.

I'm not endorsing these streamadingdongs (Better?), by any means. I find them annoying and unbearable, but I'm also older, cynical, and far more handsome. The Adonis of Troll Mountain, they call me. The Apollo of Cave Troll Hollow--I'm coming for you!
Click to expand...

There's an obvious and problematic difference between a journalist's game reviews and a sponsored advertisement video by a YT streamer. The former at least has a preconception of neutrality to it, whereas the ad is a paid-for endorsement. Further, there are heavy restrictions on what "influencers" are allowed to say and do--there's been some articles on it, but I can't find them right now (just search "youtube influencer" on Google and prepare yourself). It's a very different thing from pre-release review restrictions, which are good faith agreements by both sides.

It's a worrying trend; a worse kind of astroturfing that tries to skew public perception on a game. "Influencer" streaming is very much a wild west of advertisement, something businesses are taking full advantage of, and it'll be a while before there's any real transparency laws in place to make them less skeevy.

So no, it's not an issue of the old guard feeling threatened or anything like that. It's just A Very Bad Thing that's creeping into the mainstream, one that shouldn't be allowed to take hold in its current form. By anyone.
 
S

shortsFortallPeople

Banned
there's a parallel universe where people are complaining that GiantBomb.com is putting out too much content and that they keep trying to buy more subscriptions but the website crashed from how many people were trying to throw money at it.
 
D

DamnBoxes

Member
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